Australia Samantha Murphy, 51, last seen leaving her property to go for a run in the Canadian State Forest, Ballarat, 4 Feb 2024 *Arrest* #13

[Scooby-Doo]

This press conference in the beginning with Acting Detective Superintendent Mark Hatt sharing insight into the renewed search for Samantha, is interesting as during the press conference, they had the accused under surveillance for two weeks

 

[Trooper]

Is there a link that she was murdered at 8am ? As I can only find that Victoria Police Chief Commissioner Shane Patton said, police will allege Ms Murphy died on the day she disappeared in Mount Clear

Yes, there is a link.

 

[Rocket333]

We don’t know for sure that the accused turned Samantha’s phone off.

He may have turned his off but not hers, or both or neither.

For all we know, Samantha’s phone may have been zipped up in her leggings (or the like) and detected later. We heard about the 5pm Buninyong ping very early on but nothing more. What if her phone was on the whole time?

In Toyah Cordingley’s current trial, the jury heard that accused person Singh's phone didn’t connect to any towers between 1.16pm and 8pm that day but Cordingley's phone could be tracked moving south. This suggests that Singh turned his phone off, and that Toyah’s phone was driven away from the crime scene whilst still on. I think Adrian Bayley also drove away from the crime scene with Jill Meagher’s phone on in his car IIRC.

 

[Scooby-Doo]

We don’t know for sure that the accused turned Samantha’s phone off.

He may have turned his off but not hers, or both or neither.

For all we know, Samantha’s phone may have been zipped up in her leggings (or the like) and detected later. We heard about the 5pm Buninyong ping very early on but nothing more. What if her phone was on the whole time?

In Toyah Cordingley’s current trial, the jury heard that accused person Singh's phone didn’t connect to any towers between 1.16pm and 8pm that day but Cordingley's phone could be tracked moving south. This suggests that Singh turned his phone off, and that Toyah’s phone was driven away from the crime scene whilst still on. I think Adrian Bayley also drove away from the crime scene with Jill Meagher’s phone on in his car IIRC.

The media have run with the ping at 5pm, but it hasn't been confirmed by police

 

[Rocket333]

The media have run with the ping at 5pm, but it hasn't been confirmed by police

Just to get clear, are you suggesting that all media reporting is questionable and we can only go off what the info police has provided?

The police have directly told us:
1. Samantha reached Mt Clear about an hour after leaving home at 7am.
2. Samantha most likely died on the same day at Mt Clear.
3. Samantha’s body has not been found.
4. Stephenson was charged with her murder.
5. Samantha and Stephenson weren’t known to one another.
6. This was a deliberate attack.

 

[Scooby-Doo]

Just to get clear, are you suggesting that all media reporting is questionable and we can only go off what the info police has provided?

The police have directly told us:
1. Samantha reached Mt Clear about an hour after leaving home at 7am.
2. Samantha most likely died on the same day at Mt Clear.
3. Samantha’s body has not been found.
4. Stephenson was charged with her murder.
5. Samantha and Stephenson weren’t known to one another.
6. This was a deliberate attack.

I am not suggesting anything, only that the police have not confirmed the 5pm ping

 

[Rocket333]

I am not suggesting anything, only that the police have not confirmed the 5pm ping

95% of the content and topics in this thread discussion haven’t been confirmed by police.

Would you prefer that we just stick with and go over only the info confirmed by police?

 

[Scooby-Doo]

95% of the content and topics in this thread discussion haven’t been confirmed by police.

Would you prefer that we just stick with and go over only the info confirmed by police?

The time of the ping is important to the case

Just because they have reported it doesn't mean it wasn't pinging, police do hold information back, they have not confirmed (or denied) the 5pm ping, so police are keeping their cards close to their chest.

It is not in their interests to disclose everything.

A 5pm ping may not be consistent with their current narrative, so confirming it publicly might compromise their prosecution efforts.

 

[Rocket333]

DBM

 

[Rocket333]

It is not unusual for police members to be called as witnesses. They explain (on the stand) various important parts of the investigation, and also attest to a clear chain of custody of evidence.
It is generally how the prosecutor introduces the police evidence at the trial.

Thanks SA. I can not wait to hear every detail.

 

[SouthAussie]

Thanks SA. I can not wait to hear every detail.

Me too! The article from 3 days ago says that key expert witnesses in road, digital forensics, DNA and phone data are expected to testify.

All of that interests me. Especially the DNA and road experts which we have heard and thought little about up until now.

Where did the DNA come from? The accused's DNA on Sam's phone perhaps? Or Sam's DNA in or on the accused's vehicle? Or something at Mt Clear, as has been suggested here... a bloody rock or something? (meaning a rock with blood on it, not swearing)

And what will the road expert have to say? Identification of tyre tracks? Vehicle driving direction? What?

Road reconstructionist Robert Hay
Digital data expert Jo Parkin
Phone data specialist Matthew Sorell
It doesn't say who the DNA expert(s) will be.

Road expert and digital forensic specialists to be called in Samantha Murphy trial

Prosecutors have begun outlining the key experts they will rely on in the case of Patrick Orren Stephenson, who has pleaded not guilty to murdering the Ballarat mum.

www.watoday.com.au

 

[Melt71]

What has puzzled me in the beginning, is that even if she was recovering from COVID and doing a walk-run combo she shouldn’t have taken that long.

........

Hatt says she took “more than an hour”. So I assume less than an hour and a half or he would have said that. So I will assume it’s around 75 minutes to do 7km.

That’s 11-minute splits on average. If she was doing a walk/run it would be faster than that, maybe 8-minute splits.

This is not someone running, this is someone walking at a brisk pace.

I am a similar age to Sam and just finished an 80 minute 8km walk-run this morning on flat footpath in warm weather (currently in the Middle East for work). I would have been slower if I was on an unpaved country road or trail, the timings sound bang-on for a woman in their 50s who is taking it easy.

 

[drsleuth]

PS allegedly murdered SM & if it was not planned ( which I believe ) , than I expect his digital data & Sam's to tell the story. This age group are rarely more than an arms length from their phones & seem to record / document / broadcast their every waking moment! IMO

He could have been caught on any number of CCTV that could be matched with his location data from his phone , along with witness/s.

I do wonder, if PS didn't initially realise SM had a phone on her (could have been deep in a pocket pants)?

I think the cops knew early on that Sam had suffered a terrible "incident" which they knew was not a medical emergency when they could not locate her on Sunday ( health data etc & maybe from the family being able to log into her devices.)

Than they had to wait for tower dumps etc & start the very meticulous job of chasing down all the leads. They seem to have gotten info from the public as per police pressers etc

Looking forward to all this being layed out in court if & when it goes to trial ( I have a small niggling feeling that he might still plead at some stage) like Borce Ristevski- than we might not find out much at all??

All IMO

 

[SouthAussie]

PS allegedly murdered SM & if it was not planned ( which I believe ) , than I expect his digital data & Sam's to tell the story. This age group are rarely more than an arms length from their phones & seem to record / document / broadcast their every waking moment! IMO

He could have been caught on any number of CCTV that could be matched with his location data from his phone , along with witness/s.

I do wonder, if PS didn't initially realise SM had a phone on her (could have been deep in a pocket pants)?

I think the cops knew early on that Sam had suffered a terrible "incident" which they knew was not a medical emergency when they could not locate her on Sunday ( health data etc & maybe from the family being able to log into her devices.)

Than they had to wait for tower dumps etc & start the very meticulous job of chasing down all the leads. They seem to have gotten info from the public as per police pressers etc

Looking forward to all this being layed out in court if & when it goes to trial ( I have a small niggling feeling that he might still plead at some stage) like Borce Ristevski- than we might not find out much at all??

All IMO

I have that little niggling feeling, too.
But I am not sure if the accused in this case will be allowed to plead down to manslaughter. The police seem pretty sure it was a deliberate attack on Samantha.

I don't think I ever heard them say that about Borce and Karen (even though I think Karen's death was deliberate, personally). In that case I think they were relying on the proven fact that Borce disposed of Karen, to indicate murder.

I wonder if the family even gets to hear what the accused 'says' happened, when a defendant pleads guilty to a lesser charge and that's it for public disclosure?

imo

 

[Rocket333]

This age group are rarely more than an arms length from their phones & seem to record / document / broadcast their every waking moment!

I suspect he had been out all night (relatives party at Canadian & then a nightclub) and hadn’t been home. If so, his phone would have been with him for sure.

He could have been caught on any number of CCTV that could be matched with his location data from his phone , along with witness/s.

Seems almost certain I’d think. I’m also curious about whether his ute had pre-existing damage and this detail was noticed and reported by witnesses. Adding to that, if so did he then get some damage fixed at a smash repair shop or wreckers?

I do wonder, if PS didn't initially realise SM had a phone on her (could have been deep in a pocket pants)?

I assumed Sam’s phone was detected, taken and turned off. Then I read about Toyah Cordingley’s remaining on in her attackers car and it made me wonder instead if Sam’s stayed on and with her, even out of sight.
Might have something to do with the possible 5pm ping and the phone being thrown in the dam.

I have a small niggling feeling that he might still plead at some stage)

Didn’t he plead NG in November? Can he change his plea and if so, for how long? Personally I can’t see him admitting to anything, even when/if he realises he’s completely screwed. Having said that, I did also wonder if the fast track to trial thing was him not wanting anything publicly aired. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Melt71]

Having said that, I did also wonder if the fast track to trial thing was him not wanting anything publicly aired. Just my 2 cents.

Fast track has nothing to do with what evidence will/won't be aired, you can see where that process sits in the system at the court process flowchart
www.opp.vic.gov.au/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/Court-Process-Flowchart.pdf

 

[Rocket333]

Fast track has nothing to do with what evidence will/won't be aired, you can see where that process sits in the system at the court process flowchart
www.opp.vic.gov.au/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/Court-Process-Flowchart.pdf

Thanks Melt, that’s a useful chart.
Why would anyone innocent elect to bypass the opportunity for a contested committal? Or have I got that wrong….

 

[Porky1]

PS allegedly murdered SM & if it was not planned ( which I believe ) , than I expect his digital data & Sam's to tell the story. This age group are rarely more than an arms length from their phones & seem to record / document / broadcast their every waking moment! IMO

He could have been caught on any number of CCTV that could be matched with his location data from his phone , along with witness/s.

I do wonder, if PS didn't initially realise SM had a phone on her (could have been deep in a pocket pants)?

I think the cops knew early on that Sam had suffered a terrible "incident" which they knew was not a medical emergency when they could not locate her on Sunday ( health data etc & maybe from the family being able to log into her devices.)

Than they had to wait for tower dumps etc & start the very meticulous job of chasing down all the leads. They seem to have gotten info from the public as per police pressers etc

Looking forward to all this being layed out in court if & when it goes to trial ( I have a small niggling feeling that he might still plead at some stage) like Borce Ristevski- than we might not find out much at all??

All IMO

Good points Dr Sleuth!

Re her phone, Iam not sure it would have been obvious initially but it might have dropped on the ground or he might have felt it when moving her. Her phone case was bulky, a wallet case. I was looking at the driveway shot, it looks like it was clipped on the waistband on in a pocket at waistband. There is a bulk in that area, her top juts out at a peculiar angle. I was curious as most leggings sold in Aust don’t always have pockets and she wasn’t carrying her phone in her hand in the driveway. Might not have been found until belongings were ready to be thrown at dam, phone thrown in water, belongings hidden in bushes? Maybe someone went back and removed phone and threw it in dam afterwards, maybe months after. I’ll be interested to hear how long Dr Sorrel (?) thought it was in the water.

 

[Bats]

Looking forward to all this being layed out in court if & when it goes to trial ( I have a small niggling feeling that he might still plead at some stage) like Borce Ristevski- than we might not find out much at all??

All IMO

If he does change his plea, then he'd want to let the Police know where Sam's body is otherwise it will be a pointless exercise.

 

[Rocket333]

I was looking at the driveway shot, it looks like it was clipped on the waistband on in a pocket at waistband. There is a bulk in that area, her top juts out at a peculiar angle. I was curious as most leggings sold in Aust don’t always have pockets and she wasn’t carrying her phone in her hand in the driveway.

Good point Porky. The driveway photo is the only one released from that morning. There would be more but that’s all we got. The pink-strap smart watch is front and centre for all to see.

There is a slight bulge on her waist which could be nothing or it could be a running belt of some sort with her phone in it. The photo I have attached is just an example of a running belt and not Samantha’s.

Samantha had her phone with her and looked bulky, so I doubt very much that she’d be holding it whilst jogging or walking. The chances are that it was zipped up and out of sight in a pocket or a running/bum bag.

There’s a chance the accused wasn’t initially aware of her phone and might have thought that Sam only had a smart watch on her. Perhaps the watch was smashed at Mt Clear and shards of its glass were found, or perhaps it fell off her and was found early on (it featured front & centre in the driveway photo and a replica was also on the desk in full display in the UI show). It had significance.

Pockets in running leggings in Oz aren’t really hard to find and she was a regular runner so she’d be kitted out. The weight of her wallet though would pull her leggings down, so my bet is that she clipped a bag around her waist to carry it. All just sleuthin’ speculation.