No I haven’t Cliff and I’m happy for you to enlighten me if it can add clarity to your comment, “In the Lynn case, the police saw finding the bodies for the families an even greater priority than nailing the murderer”.
Australia Samantha Murphy, 51, last seen leaving her property to go for a run in the Canadian State Forest, Ballarat, 4 Feb 2024 *Arrest* #13
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Obviously not @Cliff Hardy, but I can fairly easily find things as I have the book on Kindle, and Kindle has a search function. Here is one excerpt ...
(Andrew Stamper): "Lets' just ask for the bodies. That's our primary goal anyway. That's the KPI. We find missing people, so families have answers. He doesn't have to say anything. Just pinpoint the spot. Put a mark on a map. Drive us there. Whatever. For the families' sake, that's all he has to do."
(Brett Florence): "If I'm Greg, I'm asking myself - how will that help me?"
(Andrew Stamper): "It'll ease the load on your conscience"
Another excerpt ....
Brett made one last request for them to just go and find the bodies. Please?
"No" Greg replied firmly. "Can we finish the interview and let me speak to her [his lawyer], and then we can do that tomorrow?"
There are probably more excerpts if I look further, as it was very important to the Missing Persons squad to find Russell and Carol. For the families.
I imagine that the detectives in Samantha's case feel the same. It is something families desire greatly, as Matthew Leveson's case clearly shows. Matthew's family gave up the chance of prosecution to successfully get Matthew back.
Ref: Chapter 21, In the Dead of Night, Greg Haddrick
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Thanks SA. I can’t imagine Samantha’s detectives wanting anything less either, and it must be so frustrating for them to not find her yet in spite of the extensive searches and efforts.
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I don’t think we can necessarily compare these 2 sad situations.
Greg Lynn denied killing Carol & Russell, but he admitted hiding, then later burning, their bodies because (according to him) he was worried he would be wrongly pinned for their murder.
Patrick S has pled Not Guilty to the charge of murdering Sam, and as far as I’m aware, has not provided any indication of her whereabouts.
Police say they have ‘mountains’ of evidence so it will be interesting to hear what both sides bring to court .
IMO
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Thanks. I was going to flick back through the book at the weekend.
I'm sure l remember more profound examples in the book where the police made it obvious finding the bodies rated higher in their priorities than a guilty verdict.
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If you read back, the only thing we were comparing is whether the biggest concern for the detectives was finding the missing person or bringing the alleged perp to justice.
Obviously they want to do both ... but if they HAD to choose would they choose to leave the missing person out there in an unknown space to the grief of the families.
As I mentioned, there was a choice to prosecute Atkins for (I think) 71 counts of perjury and put him away for some time for Matthew's death, or make a deal with him to show them where Matthew Leveson was and avoid the prosecution. The family chose to find Matthew.
You and I both know it also happened in the William Tyrrell case. Where the FM was offered no repercussions if she said where William was (at the NSWCC hearing), and Jubes was planning to make the same offer to PS ... 'just tell us where he is and nothing will happen to you'.
imo
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Thanks SA. Interesting cases and examples.
As we know, every case is unique as is the decisions around balancing the presenting priorities and navigating what would be incredibly complex moral and legal conundrums.
There’s the need to factor in the victims family and the desire to provide closure to the family by finding the body.
There’s the desire to convict the perp to ensure they face legal consequences.
There’s the need to protect society and prevent the perp from potentially harming others.
There’s the need to work within the framework of the law, which may sometimes factor in the benefits of allowing for plea bargains or offering immunity under certain conditions whilst also needing to balance the broader implications for justice and the community.
I’d imagine Stephenson has been made well aware of his options. At what point do offers of immunity or plea bargaining cease to be accepted?
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My apologies for stepping outside the boundaries of the current comparison SA
I’m not discounting the desire for any one to know the whereabouts of, and therefore to have their deceased family member laid respectfully to rest. It would certainly be important for me.
I’m also not discounting a police option to ask for those whereabouts. However I do think that perhaps ‘asking’ may in some situations be a somewhat standard shot at a ‘means to an end’.
IMO an example of that was the offer to FM. .. just a long shot to try to draw a confession.
But let’s not be kidded into thinking that Matthew Leveson’s parents are happy with the way it all played out.
Matthew Leveson's parents say justice system lets 'killer walk free'
IMO Greg Lynn knew he was cooked, but always believing he was the big guy with the big story, he gave a convoluted story about what happened, and how ( as Atkins did ) he panicked and hid the bodies. Naturally Police would demand to know where….
The difference re PS is that ( to my knowledge) he’s not admitted any involvement re SM. I’m sure the same ‘baits’ have been laid for him to divulge her whereabouts, but to no avail - and that was my point.
Where there’s an admission of involvement, there’s a logical expectation to gain knowledge of where the bodies are. Without that admission ……..
It seems re PS that there’s a lack of bargaining power. I do wonder why since there's said to be a virtual avalanche or whatever terminology, of evidence for interested parties all to navigate.
Time will tell I guess.
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DBM - double post somehow
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Sissy Austin was attacked while running. Now she wants to help women and gender-diverse people take back the track
The campaign launch comes 12 months after another Ballarat woman, Samantha Murphy, was allegedly murdered while out for a run
The campaign launch comes 12 months after another Ballarat woman, Samantha Murphy, was allegedly murdered while out for a run
By Dellaram Vreeland
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Sat 8 Feb 2025 14.00 EST
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For months after Sissy Austin was violently attacked in the Lal Lal state forest north west of Melbourne, flies were her biggest trigger. “I was covered in blood, it was a hot day, and I blamed the flies for not being able to find my way back to the car,” the Gunditjmara, Keeraay Woorroong and Djab Wurrung woman says.
“When I started running again and I saw a fly, I had to stop. It was crippling.”
The former Greens Senate candidate was running in the forest, about 25km south-east of Ballarat, in 2023 when she was attacked and knocked unconscious, allegedly by a man. The man has not been found.
On 4 February 2024, Ballarat woman Samantha Murphy disappeared after leaving her East Ballarat home to go for an early morning run in the Woowookarung regional park. Despite extensive searches by police and community members, the 51-year-old’s body has never been found. In March 2024, police charged 23-year-old Patrick Stephenson with her murder. Stephenson has pleaded not guilty and is awaiting trial............'''
( disturbing to think that there was two violent , sadistic blokes out there in the forest outside Ballarat.... what are the odds?? entirely possible, of course,, but, gee.. awful, awful... )
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No worries, Warsh. Atkins didn't admit any involvement with Matthew Leveson's death either. In fact, was acquitted of Matthew's murder (reasonable doubt) .. but still knew where Matthew was buried, despite all of his 71 lies about his involvement.
imo
Entirely possible it’s different blokes and popular opinion leans that way.Sissy Austin was attacked while running. Now she wants to help women and gender-diverse people take back the track
The campaign launch comes 12 months after another Ballarat woman, Samantha Murphy, was allegedly murdered while out for a runwww.theguardian.com
The campaign launch comes 12 months after another Ballarat woman, Samantha Murphy, was allegedly murdered while out for a run
By Dellaram Vreeland
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About this content
Sat 8 Feb 2025 14.00 EST
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For months after Sissy Austin was violently attacked in the Lal Lal state forest north west of Melbourne, flies were her biggest trigger. “I was covered in blood, it was a hot day, and I blamed the flies for not being able to find my way back to the car,” the Gunditjmara, Keeraay Woorroong and Djab Wurrung woman says.
“When I started running again and I saw a fly, I had to stop. It was crippling.”
The former Greens Senate candidate was running in the forest, about 25km south-east of Ballarat, in 2023 when she was attacked and knocked unconscious, allegedly by a man. The man has not been found.
On 4 February 2024, Ballarat woman Samantha Murphy disappeared after leaving her East Ballarat home to go for an early morning run in the Woowookarung regional park. Despite extensive searches by police and community members, the 51-year-old’s body has never been found. In March 2024, police charged 23-year-old Patrick Stephenson with her murder. Stephenson has pleaded not guilty and is awaiting trial............'''
( disturbing to think that there was two violent , sadistic blokes out there in the forest outside Ballarat.... what are the odds?? entirely possible, of course,, but, gee.. awful, awful... )
Just to stretch the mind, imagine for a minute though that it was the same bloke….
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I don't have to stretch my mind very far. Sam's death and disappearance could be escalation. imo
But that is all I am going to say, because I think the mods wanted us to set up another thread if we wanted to discuss the attack on Sissy.
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IF PS in his probably drunken mind had used a slingshot to murder SM and her body would be found early enough for the MOD to be determined, then it would be rather clear, who attacked also Sissy A. in 2023. PS' chance, that details of SM's murder won't be known in time and a connection to the SA attack can't be made, is to stay silent. IMOSissy Austin was attacked while running. Now she wants to help women and gender-diverse people take back the track
The campaign launch comes 12 months after another Ballarat woman, Samantha Murphy, was allegedly murdered while out for a run
The campaign launch comes 12 months after another Ballarat woman, Samantha Murphy, was allegedly murdered while out for a run
By Dellaram Vreeland
Supported by
About this content
Sat 8 Feb 2025 14.00 EST
Share
For months after Sissy Austin was violently attacked in the Lal Lal state forest north west of Melbourne, flies were her biggest trigger. “I was covered in blood, it was a hot day, and I blamed the flies for not being able to find my way back to the car,” the Gunditjmara, Keeraay Woorroong and Djab Wurrung woman says.
“When I started running again and I saw a fly, I had to stop. It was crippling.”
The former Greens Senate candidate was running in the forest, about 25km south-east of Ballarat, in 2023 when she was attacked and knocked unconscious, allegedly by a man. The man has not been found.
On 4 February 2024, Ballarat woman Samantha Murphy disappeared after leaving her East Ballarat home to go for an early morning run in the Woowookarung regional park. Despite extensive searches by police and community members, the 51-year-old’s body has never been found. In March 2024, police charged 23-year-old Patrick Stephenson with her murder. Stephenson has pleaded not guilty and is awaiting trial............'''
( disturbing to think that there was two violent , sadistic blokes out there in the forest outside Ballarat.... what are the odds?? entirely possible, of course,, but, gee.. awful, awful... )
Where Is Samantha Murphy's Body?
Podcast Episode · Motive & Method · 04/02/2025 · 31m
podcasts.apple.com
Interesting take on the mobile phone being found in this episode…
Thanks BT, that was an interesting chat especially about stalking, profiling, the trial and the phone.Where Is Samantha Murphy's Body?
Podcast Episode · Motive & Method · 04/02/2025 · 31m
Interesting take on the mobile phone being found in this episode…
“I think my spidey senses tells me it's that mobile phone that's going to be absolutely crucial evidence. I think there's going to be a lot of discussion around that when that gets to court and when that information is finally available.
“Why was the phone discovered at that point in time? What was the information, the intel surrounding that?”
“I think it's a critical piece of evidence. Psychologically speaking, I'm intrigued as to why it appeared at that point in time, in such pristine condition, allegedly, in a remote part of the Ballarat countryside. Intriguing.”
Sorry, haven't listened to the podcast.
JMO, but I think most probably the phone emerged from the water and dried out as the dam dried up, and starting sending out the bluetooth signals, which were seen on the family's Find My Phone app.
JMO
Yes. I always thought finding the phone when they did was odd.
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