SC - Columbia - Sheriff Slams Female Student to Floor In Class

[JeannaT]

I agree yet again diffuse the situation and deal with the student when everything is calm.

As a parent, do you believe the same? As a parent, if you were facing a defiant child would you let it play out and try to address the situation at a different time? (I am always a little surprised at how I come across in internet forums, because my family and friends have been a bit aghast at how permissive I was with my kids, and how I never punished them. Other kids were grounded, put in time out, and I usually opted to just try to reason with them. So.)

Sometimes, you just have to fall back on "because I said so". We're going to get in the car and leave the pool because I said so. You're not spending your allowance on a bic lighter because I said so. You're taking that facebook post making fun of the teacher off your wall because I said so. These are all three things that come to the top of my head that "I said so" and I don't care if it causes a confrontation and "loss of face", I said so and that's the way it is.

So, in those situations, do you not see the value in drawing a line in the sand right now, no negotiations, I said so?

 

[vestigare]

CNN has the presser right now.

 

[vestigare]

I have to disagree here.
Thre are emergency situations Where a child should comply because they have understood from life lessons that when their mother screams "get out of the road now" it is not a time to ask why.

Imo your other examples of "because I said so" were prime opportunities to teach your child critical thinking skills so they would make your same decision in the future on their own.

As a parent, do you believe the same? As a parent, if you were facing a defiant child would you let it play out and try to address the situation at a different time? (I am always a little surprised at how I come across in internet forums, because my family and friends have been a bit aghast at how permissive I was with my kids, and how I never punished them. Other kids were grounded, put in time out, and I usually opted to just try to reason with them. So.)

Sometimes, you just have to fall back on "because I said so". We're going to get in the car and leave the pool because I said so. You're not spending your allowance on a bic lighter because I said so. You're taking that facebook post making fun of the teacher off your wall because I said so. These are all three things that come to the top of my head that "I said so" and I don't care if it causes a confrontation and "loss of face", I said so and that's the way it is.

So, in those situations, do you not see the value in drawing a line in the sand right now, no negotiations, I said so?

 

[JeannaT]

Wow. This sheriff walks on water.

I couldn't agree with him more, or think he could have done one single thing better than he has.

The teacher and administrator were totally in the right for telling the RO to forcefully remove the student. The problem was the unapproved method of restraint and taking physical control of the situation, and for that he's been fired.

But she's not off the hook, and her behavior caused the RO to be told to physically remove her, although her behavior doesn't justify the type of physical restraint/excessive force used.

Bravo, sheriff. Well done.

My video cut out at the point where he said he hopes all parents will take this opportunity to . . . . (I wonder what).

 

[vestigare]

The deputy had been fired for violating dept policy.

 

[Woodland]

True.
We also don't know if she didn't put the phone down.
I can easily see a student using her phone. The teacher flips out, asks her to hand it over, the student says no and puts it in her pocket, the teacher then tells her to leave.
The student then is in a power struggle because she thinks she complied enough by putting the phone away. The teacher thinks she should have not defied her request to hand it over. The student sees no reason to leave the class because it escalated over something she was no longer doing.....

So I am interested in more info before I can even decide if the girl should have been requested to leave in the first place or if this teacher over reacted as well.

I agree either way the cop's behavior was never excusable.

Thank-you for this post vestigare - after catching up with the all-nighter here (always impressive btw) this is exactly where my thinking went.

Also Margo/Mom's post #429 - ... 'This was not about teaching anyone "life skills". It was about a ticked off adult ...' Exactly imo and thank-you.

 

[Montjoy]

The deputy had been fired for violating dept policy.

That's a good first step. I hope the next is that he is prosecuted. A badge is not a license to assault.

 

[vestigare]

Thank You Sheriff!

They want the school to understand exactly what the officer is there for and it should involve criminal activity not administrative.

 

[kareylou]

U

As a retired teacher this makes me sick.

The people in that school need trainng on how to deal with students.

Here is one idea.

http://acestoohigh.com/2012/04/23/l...oach-to-school-discipline-expulsions-drop-85/

As a teacher I loved that article. Good old long form journalism too. I find that the longer I teach (29 years at last count), the less conventionally "strict" I am. Kids, even the seemingly incorrigible ones, respond to compassion, efforts to understand, and, yes, discipline. But they don't seem to respond to assertions of absolute authority. Whether they "should" or not is immaterial in the moment, when you are losing control of a classroom.
As much as possible I practice preventive discipline. For example, I hung a shoe holder with clear pockets on the inside of the door. The students drop their cell phone into their designated pocket when they enter the classroom. I put things in the pockets that they take out when they deposit their cellphone. Sometimes just a Hershey Kiss or such, but sometimes a note of encouragement, a congratulations for a big effort, or an expression of concern. Also reinforcement of any trait that I know will be valuable to happiness and success as an adult but might not seem desirable in high school.
This has served me well and I have had so many students come back and thank me later. My stress levels have gone way down too. Win win! I will be saving this article and looking into these methods further.

 

[vestigare]

From what the Sheriff is saying with the caveat he doesn't investigate why the child was being disruptive he said it is his understanding the child was being disprespectful because she wasn't doing her school work.

Which to me still sounds like the teacher overreacted and caused rhe disruption.

Teachers need to learn to pick their fights. If the student is not being loud why would a teacher care if a student isn't doing work? Just mark the child as failed for class work and move on to teaching those who are interested in learning.

Thank-you for this post vestigare - after catching up with the all-nighter here (always impressive btw) this is exactly where my thinking went.

Also Margo/Mom's post #429 - ... 'This was not about teaching anyone "life skills". It was about a ticked off adult ...' Exactly imo and thank-you.

 

[JeannaT]

From what the Sheriff is saying with the caveat he doesn't investigate why the child was being disruptive he said it is his understanding the child was being disprespectful because she wasn't doing her school work.

Which to me still sounds like the teacher overreacted and caused rhe disruption.

Teachers need to learn to pick their fights. If the student is not being loud why would a teacher care if a student isn't doing work? Just mark the child as failed for class work and move on to teaching those who are interested in learning.

I didn't hear the end of the PC, but that's not what he said in the beginning. I don't know at what point you tuned in.

He said she was being verbally disruptive, in an ongoing way, to the teacher and being disrespectful and disruptive to the classroom process. The teacher called the admin, which was what was expected and right in that situation, and when she refused to leave the room for admin, the RO was called and told by admin to remove her forcefully from the classroom. Up through that point, everything was done correctly and he was happy with it, it was as it should have been. The moment the RO went to actually remove her as told, he used the wrong technique, not one that they've trained with, and not one that's approved. And for that, he was fired.

Again, I don't know if he took some of those statements back at the very end of the PC.

 

[bluesneakers]

U

As a teacher I loved that article. Good old long form journalism too. I find that the longer I teach (29 years at last count), the less conventionally "strict" I am. Kids, even the seemingly incorrigible ones, respond to compassion, efforts to understand, and, yes, discipline. But they don't seem to respond to assertions of absolute authority. Whether they "should" or not is immaterial in the moment, when you are losing control of a classroom.
As much as possible I practice preventive discipline. For example, I hung a shoe holder with clear pockets on the inside of the door. The students drop their cell phone into their designated pocket when they enter the classroom. I put things in the pockets that they take out when they deposit their cellphone. Sometimes just a Hershey Kiss or such, but sometimes a note of encouragement, a congratulations for a big effort, or an expression of concern. Also reinforcement of any trait that I know will be valuable to happiness and success as an adult but might not seem desirable in high school.
This has served me well and I have had so many students come back and thank me later. My stress levels have gone way down too. Win win! I will be saving this article and looking into these methods further.

The deposits are awesome. I bet they love it.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[vestigare]

Thank you for being a caring, evolving teacher. Wish more were like you.
I know 25 years later I still remember fondly when a teacher took the time to write me an encouraging note or to acknowledge me as a person rather than just another
Paper to grade.

U

As a teacher I loved that article. Good old long form journalism too. I find that the longer I teach (29 years at last count), the less conventionally "strict" I am. Kids, even the seemingly incorrigible ones, respond to compassion, efforts to understand, and, yes, discipline. But they don't seem to respond to assertions of absolute authority. Whether they "should" or not is immaterial in the moment, when you are losing control of a classroom.
As much as possible I practice preventive discipline. For example, I hung a shoe holder with clear pockets on the inside of the door. The students drop their cell phone into their designated pocket when they enter the classroom. I put things in the pockets that they take out when they deposit their cellphone. Sometimes just a Hershey Kiss or such, but sometimes a note of encouragement, a congratulations for a big effort, or an expression of concern. Also reinforcement of any trait that I know will be valuable to happiness and success as an adult but might not seem desirable in high school.
This has served me well and I have had so many students come back and thank me later. My stress levels have gone way down too. Win win! I will be saving this article and looking into these methods further.

 

[Trident]

I have a lot of respect for this sheriff. The deputy did not follow procedure - he's out. The girls were disruptive - charges stand.

 

[vestigare]

She was verbally disruptive when the teacher chose to make a mountain or of a molehill over her not doing classwork. The sheriff gave no indication she was being verbally disruptive prior to this.

That makes a huge difference imo. If she was simply not doing her class work, was texting or just starting ahead or whatever and this was not disruptive then imo the teacher should have just marked her failed for classwork and left it be.

The teacher is the one who disrupted the lesson to try to force a child to do classwork.

That is what I gathered form the presser and until I hear more info I can't say otherwise.

Regardless the way she was handled by the admin, teacher and cop was incorrect and not how I expect my public servants to behave.

I didn't hear the end of the PC, but that's not what he said in the beginning. I don't know at what point you tuned in.

He said she was being verbally disruptive, in an ongoing way, to the teacher and being disrespectful and disruptive to the classroom process. The teacher called the admin, which was what was expected and right in that situation, and when she refused to leave the room for admin, the RO was called and told by admin to remove her forcefully from the classroom. Up through that point, everything was done correctly and he was happy with it, it was as it should have been. The moment the RO went to actually remove her as told, he used the wrong technique, not one that they've trained with, and not one that's approved. And for that, he was fired.

Again, I don't know if he took some of those statements back at the very end of the PC.

 

[JeannaT]

She was verbally disruptive when the teacher chose to make a mountain or of a molehill over her not doing classwork. The sheriff gave no indication she was being verbally disruptive prior to this.

That makes a huge difference imo. If she was simply not doing her class work, was texting or just starting ahead or whatever and this was not disruptive then imo the teacher should have just marked her failed for classwork and left it be.

The teacher is the one who disrupted the lesson to try to force a child to do classwork.

That is what I gathered form the presser and until I hear more info I can't say otherwise.

Regardless the way she was handled by the admin, teacher and cop was incorrect and not how I expect my public servants to behave.

I don't know if there's a transcript, or if the PC is available to be replayed. I didn't hear any part about not doing classwork - the pc began with him saying she started this, she was the problem, and it was right to make a decision to forcibly remove her because of her behavior. I don't know where the part came in that she simply was sitting there not doing her work, because that's not what he said at the beginning of the PC.

Anyway, if anyone has a link to a transcript or the PC, I would watch it again.

 

[kareylou]

Good point. I would also like to add, as a sort of addendum to my earlier post, that teaching in the public schools is a highly stressful job. Words are not adequate. I think teachers could use more guidance in how to handle (not avoid--that's a fantasy being overwhelmed by the sheer relentlessness of teaching. One has to be "on" at all times. No tired, no hungry, no going to the bathroom whenever you feel the urge, no taking crankiness out on those around, no responding to obvious baiting, many parents are either checked out or insisting you should be paying a lot more or a lot less attention to their child, trying to come up with meaningful lesson plans for kids whose brains have developed in a world you can't imagine, DONT FORGET SOLS!! IT'S ALL ABOUT GHE TEST SCORES!! , grading, doing all your housework yard work meals kids clothes etc. the long cheap way because the annual pay for all this is about the same as your sister's commission for selling one McMansion, need I go on? But don't listen to the news before you go to work because you will learn that this opulent lifestyle is commonly perceived as "sucking on the government teat".
Whew! And it is only October
Just trying in a humorous way to say that I think teachers need more support in dealing with the stresses of teaching and more guidance in handling those kids who seem determined to deprive everyone in the room of an educational experience. It can be done but I wish it hadn't been such a long trial and error for me. I feel that I should write letters of apology to a bunch of my problem students from my early years.

 

[vestigare]

You didn't hear him say several times the girl was supposed to be working on her chromebook?
That is doing classwork on a tablet or laptop.

I don't know if there's a transcript, or if the PC is available to be replayed. I didn't hear any part about not doing classwork - the pc began with him saying she started this, she was the problem, and it was right to make a decision to forcibly remove her because of her behavior. I don't know where the part came in that she simply was sitting there not doing her work, because that's not what he said at the beginning of the PC.

Anyway, if anyone has a link to a transcript or the PC, I would watch it again.

 

[kimlynn]

Well, for what it's worth, the one student who stuck up for her said she had "no one". I took that to mean she had no family at all and no one in her corner. Which would explain the kind of defiant behavior where she really didn't care what happened to her, and wanting to stick her thumb in the eye of the school administration. That behavior isn't typical of kids who have a loving, supportive family.

I only half listened to the interview from the student who stuck up for her,but is it possible she meant "no one" at the time of the incident?
In other words no one at the moment, and as a result the other student decided to speak up for her. IMO

 

[JeannaT]

You didn't hear him say several times the girl was supposed to be working on her chromebook?
That is doing classwork on a tablet or laptop.

No, I didn't. I only had CNNgo sample video, which was the first 9 minutes. At the beginning, he was very clear that her disruption was ongoing, and disrespectful, and she needed to be removed from the classroom and he backed the teacher, and the admin for taking those steps and for instructing the RO to remove her physically.