SC - Heather Elvis, 20, Myrtle Beach, 18 Dec 2013 - #7

[SpongeBathHotPants]

Tried to find an answer for you.. there used to be a verified SAR expert posting on WS but I haven't seen him/her in a while.

From http://www.ussartf.org/dogs_search_rescue.htm and http://www.vsrda.org/volunteer/faq-2

Interesting points:
-There's a difference between a tracking dog and a trailing dog
-A trailing dog would've been used for this; they require a scent article and the person's last known location
-"Family members of the victim can contaminate a track."

So if they used search dogs at PTL it could've been futile if a) contaminated by TE and b) HE was never physically there, in which case only the car interior would've been alerted to. So if HE's last location was determined to be unknown, it would be a needle in a haystack thing in terms of where to start with a tracking (vs trailing) dog.

The aforementioned SAR expert addressed the fact that dogs are trained to pick up on only the most recent scent, since people frequently question the legitimacy of alerting on a path the victim was already known to take, i.e, "how do we know she walked home from school that afternoon if she walked the same route to school that morning, yesterday afternoon, etc?" He likened it to our own ability to tell whether or not a room needs another spray of air freshener; we can still smell what was sprayed yesterday and how much weaker it is. So imagine that ability amplified 46736473 times in a dog, who can "say" with relative certainty that they're pointing out somewhere the victim was two hours ago rather than 6. (Hopefully I didn't botch his original analogy.)

And the basic answer to your question, as far as I can tell, is that weather and time both can and do destroy scent tracks. But everyone acted relatively fast with HE and I don't think the weather was particularly unkind at the time.

My own question: if they used cadaver dogs at her apartment or PTL and got a hit, would it have been a) released to the public and b) grounds for a search warrant? Or is it pretty much the same amount of evidentiary weight as lie detector tests?

Thank you!!:loveyou:

 

[SharetheLight]

Forgive me...I thought for sure I saw mention of the DL missing. I retracted that part of #2

No problem
There was much discussion about the DL but I don't think it was ever verified as missing.
This case is very frustrating as to basic details about Heather that night. Her personal belongings.

 

[Hap]

I'm kind of lost here. Rereading through last night's posts to try to figure out what everyone but me seems to be thinking..... help?

 

[Hatfield]

I asked a question a while back and didn't see a reply.

Will search dogs ALWAYS pick up a scent if it's there? Can anything cause the scent to be lost?

People have already replied, but just want to add my opinion as well.

JMO
We have to remember that when using search dogs, the results are always "interpreted" by the handlers, and each dog is different based on its training and how it behaves to that training. So many things can affect the results when using dogs like time, weather, etc.

It is just a "tool" and it is not like a blood test where you always get a definite answer. Sometimes you get obvious results, but sometimes you get results that are in a "grey area".

 

[Foxfire]

I'm not sure I agree with this, otherwise it would still be on the news website, and the family would not be removing any mention of it from the facebook page. It was clearly a mistake by the journalist and I think he has since corrected his mistake. If it were planned they would not have included addresses and phone numbers for HE, her roommate, her parents, and everyone else listed on the report. Personally I think once it disappears from MSM it should disappear from here too, but that is just MOO.

Guess, either way, whether it was a mistake, or intentionally released. 'Ya can't un-explode a Bombshell, as NG would say'..

 

[paris_paris]

We are allowed to talk about the police report. We are not allowed to talk about what is redacted in that report. Why are we working with a report that was further redacted by a WS member?

Googling Horry County Police crime reports brings up the original released report. I will link to it when a mod says it's OK to do so... or you can go find it yourself.

 

[Eclipse33]

CC880, when a media source requests docs via foia, do police stress to them certain info that needs to be redacted, or do they just send the doc electronically & leave it up to media to do the redacting? If its up to the media to redact, can't police request they black mark it instead of a hovering black cloud covering? If not, and sense it's sensitive material, couldn't police do the redacting theirself before handing over the docs, or isn't that allowed? Does foia grant full paperwork without redacted info?

Here is what I have encountered from personal experience. My best friend died in a tragic accident several years ago. However, at first none of us knew it was a tragic accident and we all suspected foul play from her ex. Anyway, her family and I kept requesting a copy of the police report to no avail. We were told that they were not allowed to give us a copy...which is total BS. I reference FOIA and got 2 mailed copies the following week. A lot of which was redacted....BUT...it was done very poorly. The names and SSN's of all people at 'the party' were still easily visible. I couldn't believe it and neither could her parents. Needless to say it was a shoddy report, many of the pages were duplicates and it did not give us any real answers. All of this is from my personal experience with the VA State Police in a a tiny little town.

 

[imamaze]

Closed until I find out what the rules are going to be on the police report...
​

 

[Salem]

We are allowed to talk about the police report. We are not allowed to talk about what is redacted in that report. Why are we working with a report that was further redacted by a WS member?

Googling Horry County Police crime reports brings up the original released report. I will link to it when a mod says it's OK to do so... or you can go find it yourself.

If it is public info found on a public information site, you may link to it. If you have any doubts that it is public info, send it to me and/or Imamaze for review before posting it in the thread.

Salem

 

[Salem]

We are working on this issue Guys and should have the thread back soon. Please be patient with us. MSM has made a mess.

Salem

 

[Salem]

Okay, here's the deal. We are going to reopen the thread. The police report can be discussed, but NO NAMES, NO REDACTED INFORMATION, NO PERSONAL INFORMATION.

No talking about wives, ex's, employment, etc. unless you have a link that is NOT RELATED to the police report.

This is going to require restraint and cooperation on everyone's part. It if becomes too difficult, we will close the discussion.

MSM released the report and they can't take it back now. But that doesn't mean this is a free for all. We need to be respectful of LE's investigation and unnamed POIs/suspect. Given that LE has NOT named ANY POI/Suspect - you may NOT consider anyone mentioned as such.

If you have questions or concerns, pm me or Imamaze or any mod. Don't post it in the threads. And don't post anything you are unsure about. Use restraint and common sense, okay?

Salem

 

[abashfulben]

So are we allowed to offer theories based on the info, without naming names?


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[Topcat]

Okay, here's the deal. We are going to reopen the thread. The police report can be discussed, but NO NAMES, NO REDACTED INFORMATION, NO PERSONAL INFORMATION.

No talking about wives, ex's, employment, etc. unless you have a link that is NOT RELATED to the police report.

This is going to require restraint and cooperation on everyone's part. It if becomes too difficult, we will close the discussion.

MSM released the report and they can't take it back now. But that doesn't mean this is a free for all. We need to be respectful of LE's investigation and unnamed POIs/suspect. Given that LE has NOT named ANY POI/Suspect - you may NOT consider anyone mentioned as such.

If you have questions or concerns, pm me or Imamaze or any mod. Don't post it in the threads. And don't post anything you are unsure about. Use restraint and common sense, okay?

Salem

:truce: thanks for clarifying

 

[cluciano63]

Ummm, well, any searches planned...?

 

[carbuff]

I've told about this incident before, but this is probably a good place to mention it again: a few years back, we had a serial killer operating in our little corner of central Massachusetts. He was killing prostitutes from a nearby city and dumping them along rural roads. They eventually arrested the person likely responsible for the killings, which have stopped, but while the investigation was going on, it was pretty tense and scary.

At one point, a name was leaked--someone who had been arrested for a violent incident during a paid sexual encounter. The woman escaped and went to police. Of course we were all sure this was the guy, but they had to release him for lack of evidence. So here he was going about his business. Public reaction was fury, of course, and it got out of control. Somebody attacked him (as he was leaving his house to go to work, if I'm remembering right), beat him up, put him in the hospital with a skull fracture.

Trouble was, it was the wrong guy. Different man with the same rather unusual name. He nearly died and I'm told he still has concussion symptoms that make it difficult for him to hold down a job.

So please be careful when you're looking for clues. Double and triple check. Not everyone is as thoughtful as we are here and mistaken identity can have real and tragic consequences.

 

[SharetheLight]

On FHE FB they've announced they will be searching sat and sun
And are looking for atv, horseback, hunters, and people with either LE or search experience to volunteer to search in small groups lead by law enforcement.
Full details are on the FHE FB posts by others.
Hoping this means they are close to finding her.

 

[Salem]

So are we allowed to offer theories based on the info, without naming names?


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You may - BUT you can't use the redacted info. So this is a tread lightly area.

I know its a bit difficult, but you guys are smart and creative, I know you can do it.

Salem

 

[EGirl]

The redacted report says that she was in the hospital on the 17th? Do we know why?

 

[cluciano63]

Well we basically talked about theories before this came out, that were much in line with what thoughts may be now, IMO.

For example I never felt a stranger-predator involvement here...and I still don't.

 

[bestill]

Can we discuss if the reports were purposely leaked or if it was a big mess up?