SC SC - Johnny Lamar Brown, 44, Myrtle Beach, 3 Aug 2012 - #1

[mahoolin]

I should have kept reading, MNlady, and I would have seen that you had already suggested Johnny not knowing the area code.



If Johnny really did call home before the family arrived, then he must know about area codes. If he knows what the area code is for Cartersville and when he needs to use it -- well, Johnny's functioning level is getting higher by the post.

In some states, (mine for example) an area code must be used, even when calling across the street, so maybe that's why he does know his full number, which is very helpful. A "1" isnt always necessary though in all calling, so it seems he does have knowledge of the need for that for long distance calling?

 

[Peekerfoo]

Memorizing numbers does not negate cognitive limitations...In NJ, every time you use the phone, even to call next door, you need to enter an area code. We have at least eight different area codes now. When you coach your children on the phone numbers they need to memorize, the area codes are included. Even young children can memorize several phone numbers. My son knew most of our numbers (home, 3 cells, and my sister's) by the time he was 7, and at least 2 when he was 5.

Although Johnny may not be as limited as we originally thought, I still feel strongly that unless there is more information, he would still qualify as special needs. I have worked with the special needs population for 15 years and feel qualified to make this statement based on the information we have, including the updates. If that isn't accurate information, then, that's another story.

Nonni Brenda, is there anyone else around who could clarify this a little more since you're from their town?

We have a group home on my block for adults with disabilities...they walk around all day, going to stores, etc., but mostly just walking. They almost never speak to anyone but they certainly come and go independently. I can guarantee they qualify as special needs.

I guess since Johnny needs money right now, needs someone to help people undertsand what he's saying, needs to find his way home, needs his family and needs heaven only knows what else--then one could consider him a person with special needs. That I believe.

I do not have the experience that you do to make that call, but hopefully Nonni Brenda can find out more. I do respect your opinion , but I think the problem is that no one wants to perpetuate any possible fudging of the facts in the quest to help find Johnny. The family admitted they did this to a certain extent, so I think that's where the issue is. JMO

 

[Considering]

In some states, (mine for example) an area code must be used, even when calling across the street, so maybe that's why he does know his full number, which is very helpful. A "1" isnt always necessary though in all calling, so it seems he does have knowledge of the need for that for long distance calling?

I thought was just in certain areas on NC. I didn't know that in other states you had to use your own area code to call next door, across the street, etc.
Does anyone know if in the Cartersville GA area you have to use the area code to call people that close to you? I think it's been said that the Browns had never gone anywhere and if that's correct and Johnny doesn't have to use an area code to call his home from somewhere else in Cartersville, I would be surprised that he would know the area code. Is the family sure that it was Johnny who tried to call them?

NM - I see the answer about Cartersville.

 

[Nonni Brenda]

I know what you mean rachaellouise. And I agree totally with you. I am at a point i don't know which way to go with my help...reallly confused at this point.

Well, I received another call from Julie...sit down everyone...:banghead:...
Julie called me last night about 6pm, said people in her neighborhood, heard my interview on the radio, said that "the media?" had some of the story "messed up" . My son in law from Cal had just come in and asked if I could call her back. She told me some of the story, then agreed I would call her back. I tried last night and couldn't reach her. I finally reached her this evening. She said that Johnny had never tried to get on a bus! she said that a local MB bus driver who had seen the homeless man Johnny had been seen with and came over to the "people searching" and asked if they were still looking for Johnny. They told the bus driver yes. The driver told them that he had seen the homeless man who had been with Johnny, and the homeless man told the driver that Johnny had told him he wanted to go to Atlanta. The driver said the homeless man was the one that couldn't say Atlanta correctly and sounded "loopy", not Johnny. Best I can understand her Johnny never saw or spoke with a bus drive??? I thought that is what she had told us before. She added that in the future, she doesn't want anyone talking to "media" unless it is someone in the family.....:what: She did admit giving us permission to talk to media, but she had rather do that herself???
I wanted to make sure I was clear on her wishes. I told her that we were planning on trying to get CNN to get the story out on national basis, did she not want us to do that. She said,"Yeah, you can still do that sort of thing?????" I told her that is what it mean, contacting media. Then she said she wanted me to do that for her. I told her I now don't feel right doing that, as I may make another mistake, giving the wrong info like with the radio station??? I told her I wasn't gonna do that, she needs to be the one to contact all media, in my own opinion:waitasec:
Now I am sooo confused. this is all so weird:banghead::banghead:
She ended the conversation saying we are gonna get together Tues. and "figure it all out." I'm gonna take a break from this case for a while...I will still read, to see what you all are doing, but I'm so frustrated, and feel like I have been spinning my wheels. I feel very unappreciated. If she wanted the family to make calls to media, why wasn't she doing it? I will be glad to give any of you all my phone numbers for her and her family. I really thought she had told us that Johnny had tried to get on the bus, and asked for Atlanta, and the driver told him he didn't go to Atlanta.
Also, she said some of her "people around here" were upset that the bus driver wouldn't let him ride the bus.:what: and put him off:what::what:
I think the people around her may have misunderstood the whole thing, and went to her with their opinions with everything, causing confusion. I don't know. I know I am through for a while. This is just too confusing and too much for an old woman to figure out.:doh::back:anic:

 

[mahoolin]

I'm thinking pasta with a little red wine (for medicinal purposes only of course).:what:

I'm feeling a little sick, inocchio:
maybe I should take some medicine too! :giggle:
Enjoy dinner

 

[MissJames]

Memorizing numbers does not negate cognitive limitations...In NJ, every time you use the phone, even to call next door, you need to enter an area code. We have at least eight different area codes now. When you coach your children on the phone numbers they need to memorize, the area codes are included. Even young children can memorize several phone numbers. My son knew most of our numbers (home, 3 cells, and my sister's) by the time he was 7, and at least 2 when he was 5.

Although Johnny may not be as limited as we originally thought, I still feel strongly that unless there is more information, he would still qualify as special needs. I have worked with the special needs population for 15 years and feel qualified to make this statement based on the information we have, including the updates. If that isn't accurate information, then, that's another story.

Nonni Brenda, is there anyone else around who could clarify this a little more since you're from their town?

We have a group home on my block for adults with disabilities...they walk around all day, going to stores, etc., but mostly just walking. They almost never speak to anyone but they certainly come and go independently. I can guarantee they qualify as special needs.

ITA

My son has been trained to say words at the appropriate time and to answer basic questions .Hopefully he will eventually learn his own phone number ,but I don't expect he'll learn several numbers.

He's almost 11 years old and he's just learning to write his name,which is only 3 letters.
He can rote count but doesn't understand what numbers represent.

There's a difference between learning to do something that comes naturally (like learning to talk) and having to be trained to do it because it does not come naturally.
Just because a developmentally challenged person can perform a task,it doesn't mean he clearly understands why he's doing it .

It's complicated.

Sam can say the days of the week and the months,in order,but he doesn't understand time .
He can recite the Pledge of Allegiance ,but has no idea what it means .

Johnny is 44 years old. When he was in school they didn't have mandatory classes for special needs students.

He clearly has more abilities than I thought ,and he may have the ability to get home if he wants to ,but just because he has skills it doesn't negate he may be "special needs" .

I flip flop constantly on what I think is going on here,but I still believe Johnny needs to be located.

We've all done the right thing for the right reason ,even if it wasn't as critical to Johnny's well being as we first believed.
We can't regret that.

 

[Peekerfoo]

I have given this some more thought and Nosysw is probably right. It seems Johnny's communication difficulties alone would make him a special needs person. I am thinking that the term covers a broad spectrum of issues, so perhaps we would not be amiss in saying that he has special needs. I have most likely been feeling overly cautious in light of recent developments. No one wants to mislead anyone, but I feel that special needs is a broad enough term that Johnny most likely fits under it. Sorry if my comments caused any confusion, but I have been feeling confused of late.

 

[Nonni Brenda]

I think we're putting too much emphasis on Johnny NOT being special needs. From everything I'm reading he has developed some life skills but that does not negate the possibility (probability) that he is, at least mildly, if not moderately, cognitively impaired (used to called Mentally Retarded and may still be but I'm using school language because I work in special education). The fact that he can do what he can do, and has memorized certain things, held a job, etc. does not mean that he doesn't have cognitive limitations. For example, some cognitively impaired people can read "well" but when you test them, they demonstrate no comprehension of the material, or they seem to but can't retain it, or they can't generalize it to another concept. So, there is a lot of leeway here- cognitive abilities are variable and I'm guessing he is on the lowest end of the below average range or below. Just because he does not receive disability does not mean he is not disabled. The family response (lack of) that is frustrating everyone would make perfect sense. In order to get disability, they tend to weed out the people who aren't forceful or persistent about it. So, in my experience, you will see someone getting disability who is mildly disabled and someone who is much lower functioning not getting it. Squeaky wheel syndrome definitely applies here.

The way I look at it, if Johnny had average to below average cognitive skills, even though he had a severe speech impediment, he would absolutely know how to communicate in some other way by this point in this life. But, the fact that he has been seen, and heard, and even picked up by the police, and still not managed to communicate that he is in trouble and what that trouble is, IMHO, indicates that he is indeed a person with special needs and no one should feel uncomfortable about putting that out there.

ETA: someone mentioned upthread, I believe, that Johnny's siblings(?) or other family members had saved to send his mother and father on this trip yet they took Johnny. This would further suggest to me, that he has special needs, or I think they would have left a 44 year old at home while they enjoyed their well-deserved, and probably long-over due, vacation.

Johnny's mom said he was evaluated many yrs ago but she doesn't remember what the diagnosis was. They gave me someone's name that I "can find and ask", but doesn't know how to reach that person.Julie told me in the interview Sat. that he would tease by saying the same word over and over,like hi, hey, etc pointing at someone, then say or do something funny when he was sure he had their attention. So I do think he does have mental disability. just no recent, if ever, diagnosis. They said they had tried b4 to get him on disability, I think not too long ago, and was denied. They couldn't remember what reason was given.

 

[nosysw]

I agree with you Peekerfoo and Katydid23. I believe that Johnny could be somewhat enjoying being on his own, and maybe feeling like a "grown-up" for the first time, even though he misses his family and home. In my interview of Julie today, she said she had said in the beginning that Johnny was "special needs" thinking that would get more attention for him quickly. Then she started telling me what his capabilities are. Rev. and Ruby were also adding to this. I was just amazed. Peekerfoo, I'm like you in that I may be able to get some sleep tonight. (I had better start soon, it's 2:30 now. LOL) I also wish we had had this true information from the beginning. It always helps to have accurate info to work with. Well, nite nite everyone.

Above colored and BBM:

Nonni: I know you're feeling discouraged, frustrated and I would assume a little used. I would definitely feel all of those things, and more, in your position. I don't think this family is really thinking clearly, I don't think they are handling things well, and I don't think they have ever experienced any level of attention that comes close to what they are getting now. Add to that the grief, I am sure they are experiencing, and the stress of having little economic resources and I'm sure we can all imagine how difficult this is...which I'm sure is why they keep you going up and down like a yoyo...it's crazy and you've been more than patient but I don't think any of it is malicious on their part or even done in a conscious manner...

I highlighted the above quote as I would love clarification, if you even know, how this statement was meant. I didn't take it to mean that Johnny didn't have special needs, but to mean that she played that up right away so he would get attention quickly. As I indicated in earlier posts, and Miss James alluded to, having a survival skill set does not negate having cognitive limitations. Can you clarify for me how this was stated, and/or experienced by you. Do you truly feel she was indicating that the special needs piece was made up just to get attention?

TIA. And, in case I haven't said it enough, you are AWESOME!

 

[MissJames]

Well, I received another call from Julie...sit down everyone...:banghead:...
Julie called me last night about 6pm, said people in her neighborhood, heard my interview on the radio, said that "the media?" had some of the story "messed up" . My son in law from Cal had just come in and asked if I could call her back. She told me some of the story, then agreed I would call her back. I tried last night and couldn't reach her. I finally reached her this evening. She said that Johnny had never tried to get on a bus! she said that a local MB bus driver who had seen the homeless man Johnny had been seen with and came over to the "people searching" and asked if they were still looking for Johnny. They told the bus driver yes. The driver told them that he had seen the homeless man who had been with Johnny, and the homeless man told the driver that Johnny had told him he wanted to go to Atlanta. The driver said the homeless man was the one that couldn't say Atlanta correctly and sounded "loopy", not Johnny. Best I can understand her Johnny never saw or spoke with a bus drive??? I thought that is what she had told us before. She added that in the future, she doesn't want anyone talking to "media" unless it is someone in the family.....:what: She did admit giving us permission to talk to media, but she had rather do that herself???
I wanted to make sure I was clear on her wishes. I told her that we were planning on trying to get CNN to get the story out on national basis, did she not want us to do that. She said,"Yeah, you can still do that sort of thing?????" I told her that is what it mean, contacting media. Then she said she wanted me to do that for her. I told her I now don't feel right doing that, as I may make another mistake, giving the wrong info like with the radio station??? I told her I wasn't gonna do that, she needs to be the one to contact all media, in my own opinion:waitasec:
Now I am sooo confused. this is all so weird:banghead::banghead:
She ended the conversation saying we are gonna get together Tues. and "figure it all out." I'm gonna take a break from this case for a while...I will still read, to see what you all are doing, but I'm so frustrated, and feel like I have been spinning my wheels. I feel very unappreciated. If she wanted the family to make calls to media, why wasn't she doing it? I will be glad to give any of you all my phone numbers for her and her family. I really thought she had told us that Johnny had tried to get on the bus, and asked for Atlanta, and the driver told him he didn't go to Atlanta.
Also, she said some of her "people around here" were upset that the bus driver wouldn't let him ride the bus.:what: and put him off:what::what:
I think the people around her may have misunderstood the whole thing, and went to her with their opinions with everything, causing confusion. I don't know. I know I am through for a while. This is just too confusing and too much for an old woman to figure out.:doh::back:anic:

I'm so sorry you've been hurt,Nonni Brenda.Here,you've been dealing with your own health issues ,while continuing to help the family ,and you get slapped for it.
In my conversations sister wanted /asked me to do all the contacting ,calling and media stuff. I told her repeatedly that there were some things only the family could do ,like send a report to TES.

I noticed every time I spoke to sister that "or something" was often the end of a sentence. She often seemed confused about things like directions ,names of streets and what LE was telling her. That's why I questioned her so much and encouraged her to get all the facts.

When I found out that it was the Georgetown police that had Johnny that first night I was dumbfounded,just as I was when I learned that he had gone to Family Kingdom and not "a walk". Those were very crucial facts that had been left out of the story .I asked her if Johnny could use the phone .She said he knew his home number ,but she didn't know if he would remember it if he was upset.
Then I find out he's actually tried to call home and it wasn't mentioned in the prior conversation:waitasec:
I tried to get sister to call the Georgetown Police and find out what actually happened that night . She said she was going to but as far I could tell,never did.
I'm starting to wonder if anything I was told is true. I know you are,also,as is Peekerfoo.
I just don't know what to think . I would hate to get this into the national media ,only to find out it's not true.


Maybe it's time to stand down and let the MBPD handle this.

 

[Peekerfoo]

Well, I received another call from Julie...sit down everyone...:banghead:...
Julie called me last night about 6pm, said people in her neighborhood, heard my interview on the radio, said that "the media?" had some of the story "messed up" . My son in law from Cal had just come in and asked if I could call her back. She told me some of the story, then agreed I would call her back. I tried last night and couldn't reach her. I finally reached her this evening. She said that Johnny had never tried to get on a bus! she said that a local MB bus driver who had seen the homeless man Johnny had been seen with and came over to the "people searching" and asked if they were still looking for Johnny. They told the bus driver yes. The driver told them that he had seen the homeless man who had been with Johnny, and the homeless man told the driver that Johnny had told him he wanted to go to Atlanta. The driver said the homeless man was the one that couldn't say Atlanta correctly and sounded "loopy", not Johnny. Best I can understand her Johnny never saw or spoke with a bus drive??? I thought that is what she had told us before. She added that in the future, she doesn't want anyone talking to "media" unless it is someone in the family.....:what: She did admit giving us permission to talk to media, but she had rather do that herself???
I wanted to make sure I was clear on her wishes. I told her that we were planning on trying to get CNN to get the story out on national basis, did she not want us to do that. She said,"Yeah, you can still do that sort of thing?????" I told her that is what it mean, contacting media. Then she said she wanted me to do that for her. I told her I now don't feel right doing that, as I may make another mistake, giving the wrong info like with the radio station??? I told her I wasn't gonna do that, she needs to be the one to contact all media, in my own opinion:waitasec:
Now I am sooo confused. this is all so weird:banghead::banghead:
She ended the conversation saying we are gonna get together Tues. and "figure it all out." I'm gonna take a break from this case for a while...I will still read, to see what you all are doing, but I'm so frustrated, and feel like I have been spinning my wheels. I feel very unappreciated. If she wanted the family to make calls to media, why wasn't she doing it? I will be glad to give any of you all my phone numbers for her and her family. I really thought she had told us that Johnny had tried to get on the bus, and asked for Atlanta, and the driver told him he didn't go to Atlanta.
Also, she said some of her "people around here" were upset that the bus driver wouldn't let him ride the bus.:what: and put him off:what::what:
I think the people around her may have misunderstood the whole thing, and went to her with their opinions with everything, causing confusion. I don't know. I know I am through for a while. This is just too confusing and too much for an old woman to figure out.:doh::back:anic:

When I spoke with Julie she did say something about the bus driver, but as I posted upthread, I didn't really understand what she was saying about that. I got the part about him saying Allana and all that but it was confusing when she told me. She DID say that Johnny would say it that way. It sure sounded to me like she was saying that the busdriver heard it or some homeless person heard him say it. She got all excited when she told me this and mimicked the way Johnny would say it. "Allana, Allana" I could tell she was upset that he wasn't recognized at that point.

I don't know what to tell you, Nonni Brenda. This is why I stopped talking with the family, because it has been a roller coaster ride. I feel like nothing we do is right and anything we offer to do is either ignored or rejected. I was afraid that you'd get hurt in this, but I was praying you wouldn't. Let THEM deal with all of it. They seem to be doing what they think is best and they're his FAMILY. We can't be expected to care more than they do (...was going to add here, but decided not to).

No one expects anyone to give us a big pat on the back for our efforts, but I do understand what you mean about not feeling appreciated. I feel bad for you because they had a great resource and friend in you and in all of us. You have been so kind to them and it makes me sad that your kindness has been trampled on. I am standing right next to you at that wall, my friend--:banghead:

 

[mahoolin]

I agree he needs to be found. He's over 40, has lived with his family (i'm assuming) his whole life.

I wonder if he's ever gone exploring before? Meaning in unfamiliar territory. It sounds like he has quite a bit of freedom and probably enjoys his independence at home.

It's that he was given such freedom in an unfamiliar and busy place that gives me pause. His family must have had confidence in his ability to go there and back without incident....at least at that time.

I can't imagine if he'd love the activity in such a busy pace since he's reportedly really friendly? Or, since his father is a minister if he was upset at not being understood or couldn't find his way back to the motel that he'd head straight to the nearest church? Could he thoroughly be enjoying his taste of freedom? I hope so.

Johnny call your Mother.

 

[MissJames]

If the bus driver story wasn't correct , did the manager of Denny's really kick him out when he asked to use the phone?

Do we know for sure if the SAR dogs hit at Denny's and the Flea market?

 

[Considering]

ITA

My son has been trained to say words at the appropriate time and to answer basic questions .Hopefully he will eventually learn his own phone number ,but I don't expect he'll learn several numbers.

He's almost 11 years old and he's just learning to write his name,which is only 3 letters.
He can rote count but doesn't understand what numbers represent.

There's a difference between learning to do something that comes naturally (like learning to talk) and having to be trained to do it because it does not come naturally.
Just because a developmentally challenged person can perform a task,it doesn't mean he clearly understands why he's doing it .

It's complicated.

Sam can say the days of the week and the months,in order,but he doesn't understand time .
He can recite the Pledge of Allegiance ,but has no idea what it means .

Johnny is 44 years old. When he was in school they didn't have mandatory classes for special needs students.

He clearly has more abilities than I thought ,and he may have the ability to get home if he wants to ,but just because he has skills it doesn't negate he may be "special needs" .

I flip flop constantly on what I think is going on here,but I still believe Johnny needs to be located.

We've all done the right thing for the right reason ,even if it wasn't as critical to Johnny's well being as we first believed.
We can't regret that.

I'm older than dirt, MissJames, and actuallly, there were classes for students with special needs when Johnny was in school. I have two siblings with disabilities and I have worked with the special needs population for...well, let's just say 20+ years. P.L. 94-142 or the Education for All Handicapped Children Act began in 1975 was the first law to clearly define the rights of disabled children to a free, appropriate public education for every child between the ages of 3 and 21. This was when IEPs were first mandated.

 

[MissJames]

Nonni Brenda,

I was reading through your post again,trying to take it all in.

How is it that the people in the neighborhood knew the story was "messed up" ?

If they know more than we know then they should be helping the family with the media.

 

[Peekerfoo]

"The bus that takes workers and people up and down 17 was also interviewed and some homeless men remebered talking with Johnny and him saying he needed to go to "Allanna"."

above is my quote regarding the bus (driver) in post 523. I was posting from my notes and that was what I was told.

 

[nosysw]

I'm older than dirt, MissJames, and actuallly, there were classes for students with special needs when Johnny was in school. I have two siblings with disabilities and I have worked with the special needs population for...well, let's just say 20+ years. P.L. 94-142 or the Education for All Handicapped Children Act began in 1975 was the first law to clearly define the rights of disabled children to a free, appropriate public education for every child between the ages of 3 and 21. This was when IEPs were first mandated.

This is true but in many areas there are many children who fall through the cracks and many school districts who do not adhere to the special education requirements.

I'm really too tired to go back and look for the actually post, however, IIRC, it was said that Johnny "graduated" from a regular high school. It is very possible that he was in special education classes within that school (not that I don't trust the family but this was a while ago and most of the information is from his sister who is clearly not communicating well) and diplomas used to be a lot less difficult to get, i.e. there were some states where they were really "certificates of attendance" rather than true diplomas. I think this was still done is some states even in recent years.

ETA: sorry for the run-on...I really am tired. Until tomorrow!

 

[maureen]

And here we are again -:banghead::banghead::banghead:! Nobody has done anything to update his facebook page either - I almost hate to say this, but, I hope no one is donating, I;m not sure the donations would be helping to look for him.
:banghead::banghead::banghead:

 

[Peekerfoo]

If the bus driver story wasn't correct , did the manager of Denny's really kick him out when he asked to use the phone?

Do we know for sure if the SAR dogs hit at Denny's and the Flea market?

Who the heck knows? She did tell me that the worker at Denny's was a boy with "dreds" so maybe I can go see if anyone meets that description and ask? The poor kid's probably worried about getting fired after ratting on the boss!

Obviously the dog story mustbe true because Monica (CUE)was on the news and I believe she mentioned that.

 

[Peekerfoo]

Nonni Brenda,

I was reading through your post again,trying to take it all in.

How is it that the people in the neighborhood knew the story was "messed up" ?

If they know more than we know then they should be helping the family with the media.

GOOD QUESTION and answer!!:maddening: