GUILTY SC - Nine killed in Emanuel AME Church shooting, Charleston, 2015; Dylann Roof GUILTY #3

  • #141
The Post and Courier ‏@postandcourier 1h1 hour ago
Dylann Roof said Internet research led him to gun down 9 people at #EmanuelAME Church. 🔊 We examine in #TheThread: http://bit.ly/2hwAeoP .

https://soundcloud.com/user-480440265/s01-episode-5-the-manifesto
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Dylann Roof says he doesn't plan to call witnesses, offer evidence in his defense

"...U.S. District Judge Richard Gergel told Roof he will give him until the start of proceedings to change his mind about serving as his own counsel.

"You know my feeling on this," Gergel said. "I think it's a bad idea."

Still, Gergel said, it is Roof's decision to make. He requested that Roof at least speak with his grandfather and former attorneys before reaching a final decision. Smiling, Roof agreed to do so...."

http://www.postandcourier.com/churc...cle_a649df56-ccfc-11e6-a557-ff991cd78c25.html
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  • #142
New Video Revealed in Dylann Roof Trial

[video=youtube;5x7sybqWcFk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x7sybqWcFk&feature=youtu.be[/video]
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(don't remember if I posted this already)
 
  • #143
Dylann Roof plans to give opening statement, will not call witnesses in sentencing trial
Trial resumes Jan. 3

"...Roof did say that he will give an opening statement when the trial resumes, but his concerns mainly surrounded an as-of-yet unidentified piece of evidence that prosecutors plan to present.

Roof underwent a series of evaluations prior to the initial phase of the trial in preparation for a competency hearing that was seemingly prompted by his decision to serve as his own attorney. The findings of those evaluations have remained under seal. On Wednesday, Roof objected to the mysterious piece of evidence being made public and told the judge that unsealing the evidence from his competency hearing would defeat the purpose of him choosing to self-represent...."

http://www.charlestoncitypaper.com/...t-will-not-call-witnesses-in-sentencing-trial
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Dylann Roof Won’t Call Witnesses During His Sentencing Trial


"...Gergel told Roof to talk to his grandfather, who is a lawyer, and other family members one last time. He says Roof can change his mind and bring back his attorneys up until opening statements next week.

There also was argument from Roof about mystery evidence, like a photograph prosecutors want to show and video from jailhouse visits. Specifics were not given in court."

http://time.com/4618914/dylann-roof-sentencing-witnesses/
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  • #144
I wanted the state and Fed to take the deal and give him LWOP for the guilty plea. Now he is found guilty, but even if they give the DP, this state hasn't killed anyone since 2011 and the Fed since before that. Then all the appeals, hearings.....It still may never happen.
Their is a very huge chance that someone on both juries will not be able to give the DP to a man so young, who does not even look like a man. There is no question that he deserves it, but the burden is on the non-killers, to kill this one.
I don't know if he is mentally ill, I don't think so, but he definitely comes off as, well, off. Some of the highest IQ people I know are also some of the weirdest. They don't know how to socialize, how they are perceived by others, etc. In watching this man during the trial, what opinions popped up in the heads of the jurors?
I know in the world of PC, let's try him and go for the DP works best, but what if it's all for nothing and taking the plea would have been quicker, simpler, easier on the survivors and families. What if he gets LWOP in this trial, will they still try for the DP in the second one?
Put him in prison and forget him. Maybe in 10 years, send in an expert to talk to him and maybe then he can really tell why he felt the need to do this horrible crime.
I will be glad when it's over. He's found guilty and will never get out. that works for me.
MOO
 
  • #145
quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by starviego
A couple of other quibbling little things:

--Why wasn't the 11 year old witness and niece of Tywanza Sanders called to the stand? She's only a kid, but 11 is old enough.

--Why wasn't witness Jennifer Pinckney, the widow of the minister, called to the stand?

--The first reports of a suspect said he was 21 years old. This was attributed to a statement from a witness who said Roof mentioned it. Why didn't the defense attorney bring it up? Roof allegedly made other statements to the witnesses, but no one is curious about this utterance.


There are too many UNANSWERED QUESTIONS in this case!


Zuri:



thanks for this, Zuri. I am in total agreement that this was proved beyond any REASONABLE DOUBT. I believe there are enough other people who can/will testify that there will be no need to subject a young child-victim of this killer to the horrendous experience of testifying against him in the penalty phase. That would seem to be cruel, in my opinion. No need make her go through this again.... it will already be with her for the rest of her life without adding more pain.

A case can, and was, proven without the need to call every possible witness.

Why quibble over his age by a few months? Does it matter if he was 20 or 21 or 22? It does not change the fact he murdered these nine people.

___________________________________

They weren't called because his defense team called no witnesses. Simple as that. No conspiracy. He did it, they have evidence and his sworn confession.
 
  • #146
Another big Thank You! to YESorNO, for giving us the running commentary & testimony -- it's such a good thing to stay up with the info -- and your work helps us all keep together!!
 
  • #147
I wanted the state and Fed to take the deal and give him LWOP for the guilty plea. Now he is found guilty, but even if they give the DP, this state hasn't killed anyone since 2011 and the Fed since before that. Then all the appeals, hearings.....It still may never happen.
Their is a very huge chance that someone on both juries will not be able to give the DP to a man so young, who does not even look like a man. There is no question that he deserves it, but the burden is on the non-killers, to kill this one.
I don't know if he is mentally ill, I don't think so, but he definitely comes off as, well, off. Some of the highest IQ people I know are also some of the weirdest. They don't know how to socialize, how they are perceived by others, etc. In watching this man during the trial, what opinions popped up in the heads of the jurors?
I know in the world of PC, let's try him and go for the DP works best, but what if it's all for nothing and taking the plea would have been quicker, simpler, easier on the survivors and families. What if he gets LWOP in this trial, will they still try for the DP in the second one?
Put him in prison and forget him. Maybe in 10 years, send in an expert to talk to him and maybe then he can really tell why he felt the need to do this horrible crime.
I will be glad when it's over. He's found guilty and will never get out. that works for me.
MOO

Great post TY
 
  • #148
catching up and reading his like demands of the system is hard to stomach.

I worked in a juvinile jail setting (liked it a lot actually). In that setting a large portion of the corrections folks were AA.

Lets just be honest, some homophobic guard had to "allow" , for lack of a better word, Dahmer to get hacked to death.

Our prison system has an inordinate and wrong percentage of AA incarcerated He will get killed eventually - give him LWOP and let it happen.

I am not advocating that or an eye for eye, too barbaric for me. And judging from the state of the USA and homicides it certainly does not appear to much of a deterrent

But I can certainly see and understand how folks of color, are sensitive about his endless proclamations that AA are genetically dumber, as being wildly offense.


So if you take the whole picture, a lot of folks in control (corrections staff) and the prison population, in all likelihood ones odds are pretty high that will be the outcome.

Give him LWOP, and the folks that wish him dead will get their want fulfilled, ( in all likeli hood quicker than all the appeals stuff) ; while saving millions of taxpayers money for someone who clearly admitted to murdering 8 people in cold blood.

enough,

jmo
 
  • #149
I dunno, he said like 4 words on the initial video, and from what have heard he has spent most of trial looking down at the desk.

The judges capacity to make a statement is kinda based on limited interaction.

The longest interaction (if you will!) was in his confession, and clearly there were aberrations as it relates to affect, memory, time concepts, and an inordinate amount of time needed, consistently ,to respond to simple probes.

His "worries" while facing 8 murder charges were extraordinarily child- like. Where would he sleep, what would he wear when they took his clothes , wanting mommy etc etc.

When discussing the permission to search his car, he said something like maybe I am hurting my case ( or something like that) when an hour earlier he had clearly stated that he did it. IMO, that indicates he is not really grasping the intensity of the situation he is in.

Same kind ot thought processes were evident when he refused to answer questions about drug history. Most would know that multiple murder charges would trump over RX pill abuse, amd would add nothing to his predicament seems as if it would be something a 19 year old would be aware of.

The notion of surprise when told pictures would be required, IMO was also, for a 19 year old , just unique. A five year old might be surprised, a 19 year being taken aback, unaware, that in a murder trial some pictures would be part of the process is curious at best.

When asked repeatedly throughout the confession at what point did he decide to murder a bunch of people, he was unable to identify when that occurred.

I would think when a decision was made to go kill people that would be a "moment" one would recall.

His concern over the location of his drivers license was, in light of the situation, IMO,was bizarre, as well.

His need to complete the ninth grade twice, and then stopping IMO indicates some limitations in academia.

His handwriting is childish.

Wearing jeans over sweat pants , when it was 99 degrees that day, is most certainly peculiar. Near the end of the confession, the investigator discussed if those were sweat pants under his jeans.

http://www.accuweather.com/en/us/charleston-sc/29401/june-weather/330678

FRI 6/17

Actual Temp
99°

The only notion of some "smartness"(!) was when he was regurgitating thoughts, from others, online regarding AA history. Even those statements were concrete, i.e being able to recite dates, that is a different kind of thinking.

As opposed to being able to incorporate broad themes and integrate them into thoughtful conclusions as opposed to mere repeating simple facts. .

There is def no relationship between mental illness and IQ IMO. IQ determination must be administered by a highly trained individual!

But, only mo, when the confession is looked at in a cohesive whole, there are definite indications of some learning deficits.

IQ:

The four areas identified are verbal comprehension, perceptual reasoning, working memory and processing speed.

https://www.google.com/webhp?source...&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=main+components+of+iq+test

j mo
Cariis, I enjoyed your post. The only statement I don't agree with is that there's no relationship between MI and IQ. I used to work and take classes in Special Education, and it was known that there is a high incidence of MI in people with cognitive disabilities (low IQ). With that in mind, though, I'm not sure Dylan has a cognitive disability. If he does, he functions on the high end of the spectrum. He does seem socially awkward and certainly has some odd quirks (like wearing sweatpants under his jeans in 90+ degree weather). When I worked in a group home with low-functioning adults, the psychologist administered the ABA (Applied Behavior Analysis) assessment, which included a section on social behavior. But, all sections are added together to calculate IQ.

IMO, DR may have a learning disability, which does not imply a low IQ. He does not strike me as the brightest bulb on the porch, but I think his demeanor is a function of a combination of factors including possible learning disability, poor social skills, a dysfunctional home life, lack of formal education and past drug use. My dad was raised in the hills of WV and didn't complete school past the 9th grade. He was socially awkward and didn't seem that intelligent. But, in his 30's he studied for his GED as a contingency for a supervisory job at work. I was impressed with the hard work he put forth in obtaining the GED and his motivation to seek and obtain a promotion at work. I get the same drift from DR. He, too, could have done well in life if he applied his mind to constructive things. No different, really, than drug dealers who choose to take a destructive route in life. JMO
 
  • #150
catching up and reading his like demands of the system is hard to stomach.

I worked in a juvinile jail setting (liked it a lot actually). In that setting a large portion of the corrections folks were AA.

Lets just be honest, some homophobic guard had to "allow" , for lack of a better word, Dahmer to get hacked to death.

Our prison system has an inordinate and wrong percentage of AA incarcerated He will get killed eventually - give him LWOP and let it happen.

I am not advocating that or an eye for eye, too barbaric for me. And judging from the state of the USA and homicides it certainly does not appear to much of a deterrent

But I can certainly see and understand how folks of color, are sensitive about his endless proclamations that AA are genetically dumber, as being wildly offense.


So if you take the whole picture, a lot of folks in control (corrections staff) and the prison population, in all likelihood ones odds are pretty high that will be the outcome.

Give him LWOP, and the folks that wish him dead will get their want fulfilled, ( in all likeli hood quicker than all the appeals stuff) ; while saving millions of taxpayers money for someone who clearly admitted to murdering 8 people in cold blood.

enough,

jmo

I assume that Roof would be in protective custody. (Of course, you know what they say about assuming.)

Dahmer is probably the exception that proves the rule, in terms of prison "revenge" killings. That being said, I know nothing about prison life, but if the disproportionately black prison population went after white racists in any significant number, I'm sure we'd hear about it. It either doesn't happen or the Roofs of the world are in gangs or protective custody or some combination of the two.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
  • #151
Are All Murderers Mentally Ill?

"...Elaine Whitfield Sharp is a defense attorney who has worked on hundreds of murder cases over the past 20 years. And while she thinks Stevens' points are valid, she believes the fundamental problem with capital punishment is more basic than that.

"You see, I truly believe that murderers are mentally ill," she explains. "Their brains don't work like the rest of ours do. To deliberately kill someone requires crossing a profound boundary. Most of us couldn't do it. We couldn't even think about it. But they can. They do. Why? Because they're mentally ill. And fundamentally, as a society, I believe it is barbaric to kill people who are ill."

That doesn't mean Sharp thinks murderers should be excused for their behavior or set free.

"Clearly, we need to lock these people up, and keep them away from the rest of us," she continues. "Because they're not going to stay within acceptable bounds. They're a danger to others." But she says most of us make the mistake, when we hear about a murderer, of projecting that they're like us and simply choosing to do this heinous crime. And so, imagining ourselves doing something so terrible, we feel they should be severely punished for that choice. "But," Sharp argues, "they're not like us. That's why they can do it."...

Part of why more of us don't view murderers that way may be because of how we view what constitutes "mental illness," or someone who is mentally ill. The legal definition of innocent by reason of insanity requires that a person not be aware of what they were doing, or the consequences of it, at the time of the crime. Likewise, the bar for exemptions of incompetence or mental retardation require an extreme level of debilitation. But many mentally ill people are far more functional than that. Indeed, most psychologists would say that all of us sit somewhere on the spectrum of traits included in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-IV). A person who is classified as "mentally ill" simply sits at a much more extreme point along that spectrum. .."

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2010/12/are-all-murderers-mentally-ill/67295/
 
  • #152
12/29/2016
http://www.rawstory.com/2016/12/judge-orders-psychiatric-exam-for-south-carolina-church-shooter/

A federal judge on Thursday ordered a psychiatric examination for Dylann Roof, days before he is to represent himself as prosecutors make the case that he should be executed for the June 2015 massacre at a Charleston, South Carolina, church.

U.S. District Judge Richard Gergel said in an order he was requesting the evaluation and would hold a second competency hearing “in an abundance of caution” after Roof’s standby lawyers filed a motion about his mental fitness to stand trial.


Roof will be evaluated at the Sheriff Al Cannon Detention Center in Charleston by a court-appointed psychiatrist over the weekend, and a competency hearing is set for Monday, Gergel said in his order.

The judge said he was considering closing the hearing to protect Roof’s right to a fair trial but so far saw no reason to delay the sentencing proceedings.

=======
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/judge-orders-evaluation-dylann-roof-sentencing-44455291


George's order said Roof will be evaluated over the weekend at the Charleston County jail.


The judge said he will rule on Roof's competency Monday, following a hearing. He's considering again closing the hearing, as he did last month over objections. Prosecutors had argued "victims should not be held in the dark."


Gergel said then he took the rare step of keeping the hearing closed to the public and media because Roof made statements to a psychologist that might not be legal to use at his trial and could taint potential jurors.

According to Gergel's order, Roof's standby attorneys said their latest request is based on "facts developed since" the last competency hearing. The judge said he won't hear any evidence he's already heard.


Also Thursday, prosecutors objected to the judge's plan to tell jurors if they don't reach a unanimous decision to sentence Roof to death, then he will sentence Roof to life in prison without the possibility for release.

"The court should only consider providing instruction on a deadlocked jury if the jury is in fact deadlocked," prosecutors said.
 
  • #153
Another mental evaluation....:thinking:

I think that the court is trying their best to give Roof the fairest trial they can and Bruck is trying in earnest to save that boy's life.

I also think that murderers, not self-defense murders tho', have some mental thingy going on.

I don't think it would do any good tho' to declare Roof legally incompetent under law, if that's what they are trying to accomplish with another evaluation.

-according to the law"s definition of legally incompetent:

Competence (law)

"In United States law, competence concerns the mental capacity of an individual to participate in legal proceedings or transactions, and the mental condition a person must have to be responsible for his or her decisions or acts...

Defendants who do not possess sufficient "competence" are usually excluded from criminal prosecution, while witnesses found not to possess requisite competence cannot testify...

In United States law, the right to not be prosecuted while one is incompetent to stand trial has been ruled by the United States Supreme Court to be guaranteed under the due process clause. If the court determines that a defendant's mental condition makes him unable to understand the proceedings, or that he is unable to help in his defense, he is found incompetent. The competency evaluation, as determined in Dusky v. United States, is whether the accused "has sufficient present ability to consult with his lawyer with a reasonable degree of rational understanding—and whether he has a rational as well as factual understanding of the proceedings against him."

Being determined incompetent is substantially different from undertaking an insanity defense; competence regards the defendant's state of mind at the time of the trial, while insanity regards his state of mind at the time of the crime. It has also been referred to as a "730 exam"..."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Competence_(law)

Bruck/the court are saying that because Roof is not putting on any defense, he may be incompetent to defend himself? (this is how I am interpreting this new evaluation)
I don't know what else to think.

ETA:

"...A motion for a competency hearing must be made before sentencing takes place. In federal court a motion for a hearing will be granted "if there is a reasonable cause to believe that the defendant may be suffering from a mental disease or defect rendering him mentally incompetent" (18 U.S.C.A. § 4241 (a)). A psychiatric or psychological evaluation is then conducted, and a hearing is held on the matter. If the court finds that the defendant is incompetent, the defendant will be hospitalized for a reasonable period of time, usually no more than four months. The goal is to determine whether the defendant's competence can be restored...."

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Mental+Incompetency

If the court has already stated that Roof is competent to stand trial and go pro se, what is different now?
 
  • #154
I don't know what is different from the first competency hearing but defense seems to think there is something. From my previous post:

According to Gergel's order, Roof's standby attorneys said their latest request is based on "facts developed since" the last competency hearing.
 
  • #155
12/29/2016
http://www.rawstory.com/2016/12/judge-orders-psychiatric-exam-for-south-carolina-church-shooter/

A federal judge on Thursday ordered a psychiatric examination for Dylann Roof, days before he is to represent himself as prosecutors make the case that he should be executed for the June 2015 massacre at a Charleston, South Carolina, church.

U.S. District Judge Richard Gergel said in an order he was requesting the evaluation and would hold a second competency hearing “in an abundance of caution” after Roof’s standby lawyers filed a motion about his mental fitness to stand trial.


Roof will be evaluated at the Sheriff Al Cannon Detention Center in Charleston by a court-appointed psychiatrist over the weekend, and a competency hearing is set for Monday, Gergel said in his order.

The judge said he was considering closing the hearing to protect Roof’s right to a fair trial but so far saw no reason to delay the sentencing proceedings.

=======
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/judge-orders-evaluation-dylann-roof-sentencing-44455291


George's order said Roof will be evaluated over the weekend at the Charleston County jail.


The judge said he will rule on Roof's competency Monday, following a hearing. He's considering again closing the hearing, as he did last month over objections. Prosecutors had argued "victims should not be held in the dark."


Gergel said then he took the rare step of keeping the hearing closed to the public and media because Roof made statements to a psychologist that might not be legal to use at his trial and could taint potential jurors.

According to Gergel's order, Roof's standby attorneys said their latest request is based on "facts developed since" the last competency hearing. The judge said he won't hear any evidence he's already heard.


Also Thursday, prosecutors objected to the judge's plan to tell jurors if they don't reach a unanimous decision to sentence Roof to death, then he will sentence Roof to life in prison without the possibility for release.

"The court should only consider providing instruction on a deadlocked jury if the jury is in fact deadlocked," prosecutors said.

How on earth can the jury be deadlocked , he stated on video more than once he did it?

Does he have "understanding" issues for sure imo
 
  • #156
I assume that Roof would be in protective custody. (Of course, you know what they say about assuming.)

Dahmer is probably the exception that proves the rule, in terms of prison "revenge" killings. That being said, I know nothing about prison life, but if the disproportionately black prison population went after white racists in any significant number, I'm sure we'd hear about it. It either doesn't happen or the Roofs of the world are in gangs or protective custody or some combination of the two.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My sense is they keep them in protective custudy for a while so they do not get killed right away - looks bad.

But I think most of them get into regular after a while - then when they get killed it is only a little blurb and the system marches forward laocking people up .

Mr. Dahmer's first year in prison had been spent in protective isolation, away from the general inmate population. But in the last year, Mr. Dahmer and the prison authorities had deemed it safe enough for him to be integrated into the general population of 622 inmates.

Even after someone tried to alsaughter him earlier they put him back out $$$ rules all

however, an inmate tried to slash Mr. Dahmer's throat with a plastic homemade knife during a chapel service. But Mr. Dahmer was not injured and both he and his keepers determined that the attack was an isolated incident.

back to $$$$

egal battle over his estate remains alive. Several families of his victims sued him and were awarded millions of dollars. Ever since, they have been trying to gain control of the contents of his Milwaukee apartment, where he killed most of his victims.
The families want to auction off some 312 items, including a 55-gallon vat he used to decompose the bodies; the refrigerator where he stored hearts; a saw, a hammer and his toothbrush. Tom Jacobson, the lawyer for the families, said the auction could bring more than $100,000.

http://www.nytimes.com/1994/11/29/u...-killer-is-bludgeoned-to-death-in-prison.html
 
  • #157
Another mental evaluation....:thinking:

I think that the court is trying their best to give Roof the fairest trial they can and Bruck is trying in earnest to save that boy's life.

I also think that murderers, not self-defense murders tho', have some mental thingy going on.

I don't think it would do any good tho' to declare Roof legally incompetent under law, if that's what they are trying to accomplish with another evaluation.

-according to the law"s definition of legally incompetent:

Competence (law)

"In United States law, competence concerns the mental capacity of an individual to participate in legal proceedings or transactions, and the mental condition a person must have to be responsible for his or her decisions or acts...

Defendants who do not possess sufficient "competence" are usually excluded from criminal prosecution, while witnesses found not to possess requisite competence cannot testify...

In United States law, the right to not be prosecuted while one is incompetent to stand trial has been ruled by the United States Supreme Court to be guaranteed under the due process clause. If the court determines that a defendant's mental condition makes him unable to understand the proceedings, or that he is unable to help in his defense, he is found incompetent. The competency evaluation, as determined in Dusky v. United States, is whether the accused "has sufficient present ability to consult with his lawyer with a reasonable degree of rational understanding—and whether he has a rational as well as factual understanding of the proceedings against him."

Being determined incompetent is substantially different from undertaking an insanity defense; competence regards the defendant's state of mind at the time of the trial, while insanity regards his state of mind at the time of the crime. It has also been referred to as a "730 exam"..."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Competence_(law)

Bruck/the court are saying that because Roof is not putting on any defense, he may be incompetent to defend himself? (this is how I am interpreting this new evaluation)
I don't know what else to think.

ETA:

"...A motion for a competency hearing must be made before sentencing takes place. In federal court a motion for a hearing will be granted "if there is a reasonable cause to believe that the defendant may be suffering from a mental disease or defect rendering him mentally incompetent" (18 U.S.C.A. § 4241 (a)). A psychiatric or psychological evaluation is then conducted, and a hearing is held on the matter. If the court finds that the defendant is incompetent, the defendant will be hospitalized for a reasonable period of time, usually no more than four months. The goal is to determine whether the defendant's competence can be restored...."

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Mental+Incompetency

If the court has already stated that Roof is competent to stand trial and go pro se, what is different now?

hummm I wonder if this a CYA move as far as the judge goes - or is he decomping?

I still do not think he will be able to deal with the victims-is it a all or nothing thing? If he does openeing statement can he then pull out for the victim statements??
 
  • #158
Another mental evaluation....:thinking:

I think that the court is trying their best to give Roof the fairest trial they can and Bruck is trying in earnest to save that boy's life.

I also think that murderers, not self-defense murders tho', have some mental thingy going on.

I don't think it would do any good tho' to declare Roof legally incompetent under law, if that's what they are trying to accomplish with another evaluation.

-according to the law"s definition of legally incompetent:

Competence (law)

"In United States law, competence concerns the mental capacity of an individual to participate in legal proceedings or transactions, and the mental condition a person must have to be responsible for his or her decisions or acts...

Defendants who do not possess sufficient "competence" are usually excluded from criminal prosecution, while witnesses found not to possess requisite competence cannot testify...

In United States law, the right to not be prosecuted while one is incompetent to stand trial has been ruled by the United States Supreme Court to be guaranteed under the due process clause. If the court determines that a defendant's mental condition makes him unable to understand the proceedings, or that he is unable to help in his defense, he is found incompetent. The competency evaluation, as determined in Dusky v. United States, is whether the accused "has sufficient present ability to consult with his lawyer with a reasonable degree of rational understanding—and whether he has a rational as well as factual understanding of the proceedings against him."

Being determined incompetent is substantially different from undertaking an insanity defense; competence regards the defendant's state of mind at the time of the trial, while insanity regards his state of mind at the time of the crime. It has also been referred to as a "730 exam"..."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Competence_(law)

Bruck/the court are saying that because Roof is not putting on any defense, he may be incompetent to defend himself? (this is how I am interpreting this new evaluation)
I don't know what else to think.

ETA:

"...A motion for a competency hearing must be made before sentencing takes place. In federal court a motion for a hearing will be granted "if there is a reasonable cause to believe that the defendant may be suffering from a mental disease or defect rendering him mentally incompetent" (18 U.S.C.A. § 4241 (a)). A psychiatric or psychological evaluation is then conducted, and a hearing is held on the matter. If the court finds that the defendant is incompetent, the defendant will be hospitalized for a reasonable period of time, usually no more than four months. The goal is to determine whether the defendant's competence can be restored...."

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Mental+Incompetency

If the court has already stated that Roof is competent to stand trial and go pro se, what is different now?

Please do not take offense but I have to object to calling this monster a "boy." He was old enough to drive, vote, serve in the military, drink, smoke and be incarcerated in an adult prison, at the time he committed this cowardly massacre.

On another note, has anyone asked him how he thought he was saving white people from rape by shooting little old church ladies as they pray?
 
  • #159
I was wondering why , at the pre-sentencing conference, the judge brought up Roof's birth certificate: :thinking:

Chad K. Mills ‏@ChadKMills 2h2 hours ago
They're now talking about how #DylannRoof's birth certificate will be introduced during the sentencing phase. #sctweets @wis10 #RoofTrial

Karina Bolster ‏@KRBolster 2h2 hours ago
Judge Gergel now discusses #DylannRoof's date of birth and wonders if there are any objections from Govt./Defense. #chsnews #RoofTrial


Maybe something about brain maturity? But that would be something that the defense would bring up and since Roof is not putting on any mitigating factors......??????

Is Roof older/younger than he states? If older, the prosecution can say he was old enough to be responsible for what he did; if younger, the defense could say his brain isn't dveloped and not responsible????

If Roof is deemed not competent and Bruck is back to defending him, he might bring in immaturity of the brain as a mitigating factor??

Just wondering what that was all about and just a thought.
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If anyone is interested:

At What Age Is The Brain Fully Developed?

"...Although brain development is subject to significant individual variation, most experts suggest that the brain is fully developed by age 25. For some people, brain development may be complete prior to age 25, while for others it may end after age 25. The mid-20s or “25” is just an average age given as checkpoint for when the brain has likely become mature.

It may seem logical that those aged 18 to 25 are completely mature, the brain still is maturing – specifically the area known as the “prefrontal cortex.” Changes occurring between ages 18 and 25 are essentially a continued process of brain development that started during puberty. When you’re 18, you’re roughly halfway through the entire stage of development. The prefrontal cortex doesn’t have nearly the functional capacity at age 18 as it does at 25.

This means that some people may have major struggles with impulsive decisions and planning behavior to reach a goal. The brain’s reward system tends to reach a high level of activation during puberty, then gradually drifts back to normal activation when a person reaches roughly the age of 25. Adults over the age of 25 tend to feel less sensitive to the influence of peer pressure and have a much easier time handling it..."

http://mentalhealthdaily.com/2015/02/18/at-what-age-is-the-brain-fully-developed/
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Adolescent Maturity and the Brain: The Promise and Pitfalls of Neuroscience Research in Adolescent Health Policy

"Abstract
Longitudinal neuroimaging studies demonstrate that the adolescent brain continues to mature well into the 20s. This has prompted intense interest in linking neuromaturation to maturity of judgment. Public policy is struggling to keep up with burgeoning interest in cognitive neuroscience and neuroimaging. However, empirical evidence linking neurodevelopmental processes and adolescent real-world behavior remains sparse. Nonetheless, adolescent brain development research is already shaping public policy debates about when individuals should be considered mature for policy purposes...

In the last decade, a growing body of longitudinal neuroimaging research has demonstrated that adolescence is a period of continued brain growth and change, challenging longstanding assumptions that the brain was largely finished maturing by puberty [1–3]. The frontal lobes, home to key components of the neural circuitry underlying “executive functions” such as planning, working memory, and impulse control, are among the last areas of the brain to mature; they may not be fully developed until halfway through the third decade of life ...

Impulse control, response inhibition, and sensation seeking

Among the many behavior changes that have been noted for teens, the three that are most robustly seen across cultures are: (1) increased novelty seeking; (2) increased risk taking; and (3) a social affiliation shift toward peer-based interactions [13]. This triad of behavior changes is seen not only in human beings but in nearly all social mammals [13]. Although the behaviors may lead to danger, they confer an evolutionary advantage by encouraging separation from the comfort and safety of the natal family, which decreases the chances of inbreeding. The behavior changes also foster the development and acquisition of independent survival skills [13]..."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2892678/
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OR maybe genetic triggers? :

Coast to Coast AM ✔ @coasttocoastam
Are some people born killers?:
Biggest ever brain imaging study of mass murderers reveals they are wired dif... http://bit.ly/1pVx8ty
9:24 AM - 1 May 2016

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Are some people BORN killers? Biggest ever brain imaging study of mass murderers reveals they are wired differently

"Scientists have found chromosome abnormalities in some serial killers
A gene known as the Warrior gene may also play a role in psychopathy
Kent Kiehl has created largest forensic neuroscience library in the world
Found psychopaths tend to have less gray matter and smaller amygdalas
Says 50% of brain abnormalities in murderers is caused by genetics..."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...TheNews+(Feed+-+Coast+to+Coast+-+In+the+News)
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The Evil Brain: What Lurks Inside a Killer’s Mind

"...For as long as evil has existed, people have wondered about its source, and you don’t have to be too much of a scientific reductionist to conclude that the first place to look is the brain. There’s not a thing you’ve ever done, thought or felt in your life that isn’t ultimately traceable to a particular webwork of nerve cells firing in a particular way, allowing the machine that is you to function as it does. So if the machine is busted — if the operating system in your head fires in crazy ways — are you fully responsible for the behavior that follows?

That’s a question that has a lot more than just philosophical implications. No sooner were the Tsarnaev brothers identified as the Boston Marathon bombers than speculation arose as to whether the behavior of older-brother Tamerlan might have been influenced by brain damage sustained during his years as a boxer. The answer was almost certainly no: sports-related brain injury usually leads to volatile and impulsive behavior in people his age, and the bombing was coldly and painstakingly planned. (This was made especially clear by the later revelation that the brothers had originally planned their attack for July 4, but by working hard and applying themselves, they completed their bombs earlier than planned — an illustration of perverse diligence if ever there was one.) But the medical histories of uncounted other killers and violent offenders are filled with diagnoses of all manner of brain diseases and traumas, raising both the issue of whether the perps were truly, fully, responsible for their crimes, and the possibility that the acts could have been prevented in the first place if the illnesses had been treated.

“I don’t think there’s any kind of neurological condition that’s 100% predictive,” says neuroscientist Michael Koenigs of the University of Madison-Wisconsin. “But even when psychopaths know that what they’re doing is a crime, that doesn’t mean they’re in control of their behavior when they offend.”...

People like Morse believe where once we attributed all crime to moral laxity or simple evil, we’ve now overcorrected, too often looking to excuse criminal behavior medically. “I call it the fundamental psycholegal error,” he says. “The belief that if you discover a cause you’ve mitigated or excused responsibility. If you have a bank robber who can show that he commits crimes only when he’s in a hypomanic state, that does not mean he deserves excuse or mitigation.”...

Evil is far too complex and far too woven into our natures for us to think that we can always adjudicate it fairly. But the better we can understand the brains that are home to such ugliness, the more effectively we can contain it, control it and punish it. Now and then, with the help of science, we may even be able to snuff it out altogether."

http://science.time.com/2013/05/03/evil-brain/
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(just some :thinking: on a snowy day) :snowball:
 
  • #160
Chad K. Mills ‏@ChadKMills Dec 29
#BREAKING: Judge Gergel has ordered another competency hearing for #DylannRoof. It's scheduled for next Monday. #sctweets #RoofTrial @wis10

Karina Bolster ‏@KRBolster Dec 29
BREAKING: Closed door competency hearing scheduled January 2, 2017 for #DylannRoof. Regarding sentencing phase. #chsnews #RoofTrial

Chad K. Mills ‏@ChadKMills Dec 29
The court says the Judge's order is in response to a motion filed by standby attorney David Bruck. #DylannRoof #RoofTrial @wis10 #breaking

Chad K. Mills ‏@ChadKMills Dec 29
No surprise, that motion filed by standby attorney Bruck is sealed. #sctweets @wis10 #DylannRoof #RoofTrial

Chad K. Mills ‏@ChadKMills Dec 29
Judge Gergel says he's moving forward with this new competency hearing "in an abundance of caution." #RoofTrial #DylannRoof #BREAKING @wis10

Chad K. Mills ‏@ChadKMills Dec 29
Gergel says he plans to decide Roof's competency from the bench after Monday's hearing. #sctweets @wis10 #DylannRoof #RoofTrial

Chad K. Mills ‏@ChadKMills Dec 29
"Court finds no reason to cancel or delay the sentencing trial scheduled to
commence on January 3," he wrote. #DylannRoof #RoofTrial @wis10

Karina Bolster ‏@KRBolster Dec 29
Judge Richard Gergel has ordered an additional independent psychiatric evaluation of #DylannRoof. #chsnews #RoofTrial

C03NiQ3WQAAcMP_.jpg


Chad K. Mills ‏@ChadKMills Dec 29
A psychiatrist, Dr. James Ballenger, will visit the jail to evaluate #DylannRoof over the weekend. #DylannRoof #RoofTrial #sctweets @wis10


Karina Bolster ‏@KRBolster Dec 29
Hearing is b/c of motion filed by #DylannRoof's standby counsel. Will only look at evaluation evidence from Nov. 22 on. #chsnews #RoofTrial

C03N5fXWIAEkQqI.jpg


Chad K. Mills ‏@ChadKMills Dec 29
Remember, the judge found #DylannRoof competent last time and said he has a high IQ and no cognitive impairment. #RoofTrial @wis10 #BREAKING

C03U0MjW8AA6rNZ.jpg


Chad K. Mills ‏@ChadKMills Dec 29
By the way, the clipping is from a judge's order dated Nov. 29, 2016.

Chad K. Mills ‏@ChadKMills Dec 29
Remember what Judge said when some were frustrated by delay of 1st competency hearing: "We want to do [this trial] one time." #DylannRoof

Chad K. Mills ‏@ChadKMills Dec 29
Remember, court filings revealed that #DylannRoof didn't ask for his 1st competency hearing. His defense did. #RoofTrial @wis10 #sctweets
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