SC - Paul Murdaugh & mom Margaret Found Shot To Death - Alex Murdaugh Accused - Islandton #16

[otto]

Just to add that all of the buckshot/birdshot 12 gauge/16gauge talk is referring to Paul’s attack. They report that Maggie was killed by a rifle bullet. 223 or similar that I can’t recall.

It sounds like three types of bullets were found at the scene. One type for Maggie (.300 blackout), two types for Paul (12, 16 gauge). Paul was killed first, possibly by a shotgun that had been left at the kennels. Someone at Moselle used the .300 rifle for recreation, but no one can find it.

" ... expert witness said investigators know what the murder weapon was — a .300 Blackout semi-automatic rifle “that had been used before at the Murdaughs’ spacious hunting estate in Colleton County.” But they don’t know where it is."

State: Murder weapon known, but can't be found in Murdaugh case - Charleston City Paper

According to surprising Tuesday testimony in the double murder trial of disbarred lawyer Alex Murdaugh, an expert witness said investigators know what the murder weapon was — a .300 Blackout semi-automatic rifle “that had been used before at the Murdaughs’ spacious hunting estate in Colleton...

charlestoncitypaper.com

 

[otto]

<modsnip - quoted post removed>

Alex was mixing 12 and 16 gauge in a 12 gauge shotgun.


"Agent Worley then took custody of the 12 gauge shotgun that had been retrieved from Mr Murdaugh, finding a 16 gauge shotgun cartridge in the magazine when she unloaded the weapon."

Alex Murdaugh trial shown crime scene photos of bloody dog kennels after murders

Agent testified she found shotshell wad on floor as well as blood, tissues, and piece of skull

ca.finance.yahoo.com

 

[Snoopster]

I suppose someone could be confused if they hadn't been around guns, or had possibly only been around handguns. The only reason I can think of to load them that way, with buck first and then bird is if someone had a very limited supply of ammo.

People who live an area where they have to keep predators (non human) at bay, will load according to what they're guarding against. I suppose if large bear were a threat, AND someone had limited buck shot, they might fully load the gun so that all the larger shot would be shot first. And if that didn't stop the predator, bird shot is better than nothing at all.

Personally, for home defense, I don't like loading a gun with two different kinds of shot. I don't trust that I wouldn't get confused, especially with adrenaline rushing.

So, please bear with me and my lack of weapons knowledge.

When looking at this particular case, and presuming the shotgun came from the property, why would a shotgun be loaded with buckshot then birdshot? These people are fairly wealthy and would likely have lots of ammo on hand. AM told SLED during the interview that they had every type of rifle/gun on their property. The family was clearly familiar with weapons.

If AM was not the shooter, why would an intruder have two types of ammo in the shotgun?

 

[Snoopster]

Alex was mixing 12 and 16 gauge in a 12 gauge shotgun.


"Agent Worley then took custody of the 12 gauge shotgun that had been retrieved from Mr Murdaugh, finding a 16 gauge shotgun cartridge in the magazine when she unloaded the weapon."

Alex Murdaugh trial shown crime scene photos of bloody dog kennels after murders

Agent testified she found shotshell wad on floor as well as blood, tissues, and piece of skull

ca.finance.yahoo.com

Now you know why I am trying to understand buckshot/birdshot and 12/16 gauge. Are these equivalent?

 

[GoBuckeyes]

<modsnip - no link> Was Paul shot in a manner that was adjacent to the kennels? I noticed no mention of animals being caught in the line of fire. I'm just trying to picture everything.

 

[clearskies1]

Here is my understanding -- please correct me if I'm wrong.

Paul was shot with Federal 00 buckshot and Winchester No. 2 turkey load. See below at 14:50. That ammo was used in a (missing)12 gauge shotgun.

When LE arrived at the scene AM had a 12 gauge shotgun that he claimed that he got from the house. It had a 16 gauge shell in it. A preliminary test showed there was blood on that gun.

Maggie was shot with .300 blackout from an AR-style rifle -- that gun is missing. JMO.

 

[uscrudd]

<modsnip - no link>

A 12 gauge and a 16 gauge are 2 different firearms completely. The 12 gauge shotgun that Alex grabbed from the house was loaded with ammunition for both a 12 gauge and a 16 gauge. <modsnip - no link>

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Thank you.

I believe we're also to believe that PM was first shot from a distance and that only the 2nd shot was in close enough range to cause stippling. MOO

Ughh, that turns my stomach to think of someone being close enough with a shotgun to cause stippling. I don't care what mistakes he made or if he was a jerk when he drank, NO ONE deserves that.

 

[worm]

Now you know why I am trying to understand buckshot/birdshot and 12/16 gauge. Are these equivalent?

The 12 would be the bigger and more powerful with a 16 being slightly smaller. It’s weird given the numbers. The shots are pellet sizes with a buckshot being the largest.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

<modsnip - no link>

A 12 gauge and a 16 gauge are 2 different firearms completely. The 12 gauge shotgun that Alex grabbed from the house was loaded with ammunition for both a 12 gauge and a 16 gauge. <modsnip - no link>

Does it seem odd to you that the shotgun wouldn't have been loaded already? It sounded to me that Moselle was their hunting getaway or estate, if you will. Both boys were plenty old enough. No grandkids yet to need to keep the firearms unloaded. Seems slightly peculiar. But maybe that's just me.

 

[Seattle1]

Alex was mixing 12 and 16 gauge in a 12 gauge shotgun.


"Agent Worley then took custody of the 12 gauge shotgun that had been retrieved from Mr Murdaugh, finding a 16 gauge shotgun cartridge in the magazine when she unloaded the weapon."

Alex Murdaugh trial shown crime scene photos of bloody dog kennels after murders

Agent testified she found shotshell wad on floor as well as blood, tissues, and piece of skull

ca.finance.yahoo.com

So was PM shot at through the window?

Was AM using a scope and his strategy to shoot PM through the window, and after he was down, come in closer and with PM already dead or disabled, shoot him again at close range -- using alternate ammo?

If so, that's one evil thought process. MOO

 

[otto]

<modsnip - no link> Was Paul shot in a manner that was adjacent to the kennels? I noticed no mention of animals being caught in the line of fire. I'm just trying to picture everything.

Two shots, one buckshot, one birdshot. First shot to the chest, second to the head. Fell on his face outside the storage shed.

 

[Seattle1]

<modsnip - no link> Was Paul shot in a manner that was adjacent to the kennels? I noticed no mention of animals being caught in the line of fire. I'm just trying to picture everything.

Listening to the bodycam audio of the first responders-- long before SLED arrived, I don't recall any discussion about the state of the dogs. Don't recall the dogs a topic when SLED on scene. Actually, I think there was minimal barking in the background, given the situation. MOO

 

[otto]

So was PM shot at through the window?

Was AM using a scope and his strategy to shoot PM through the window, and after he was down, come in closer and with PM already dead or disabled, shoot him again at close range -- using alternate ammo?

If so, that's one evil thought process. MOO

Maybe. From the t-shirt blood analysis document, photo of the bullet hole in the window of the storage shed. More than one hole in the glass.

 

[DeDee]

Just went back to watch opening statements as I missed the first day of trial .. I'm rather disturbed at a comment made by DH when talking about AM buying two black out guns for each of his sons .. he points to Buster and says that AM bought one gun for Paul and the other for his son, Buster who is sitting in the "audience" seriously .. like this is a movie instead of a murder trial.

I've enjoyed Law and Crime's coverage using split screens. Buster has smiled and whispered at some interesting times when I wished I was a lip reader. I don't trust him with the truth, esp now that we know AM tried to give his wealth to BM. AM has him in his pocket. Glad the Judge stopped that action to protect AM's debtors.

MOO

 

[otto]

Listening to the bodycam audio of the first responders-- long before SLED arrived, I don't recall any discussion about the state of the dogs. Don't recall the dogs a topic when SLED on scene. Actually, I think there was minimal barking in the background, given the situation. MOO

I thought that the barking dogs in the background seemed non-stop in the body cam footage. No one told the dogs to calm down, or helped calm down the barking dog.

 

[otto]

Did anyone catch the footage of Detective Laura who said she identified foot prints belonging to Maggie going one direction, then turning around and going in the opposite direction? Was that Maggie hearing the shots and unsure which way to run?

Black: shooter?
Yellow: trail of bullet casings
Red: Maggie?

 

[Seattle1]

I thought that the barking dogs in the background seemed non-stop in the body cam footage. No one told the dogs to calm down, or helped calm down the barking dog.

In my experience, unlike a house pet, most kenneled dogs constantly bark at each other and continue just the same when humans are present. Hunting dogs tend to be barkers so the owners can find them. Herding dogs tend to be quieter. IMO, I wasn't hearing distress.

A Quieter Kennel: Understanding Why Dogs Bark & What To Do About It

Dogs bark. It’s a fact of life that nearly all dog owners must accept. Barking is a self-rewarding behavior. But it is important for breeders and kennel owners to understand the different types of barking, and when it has turned into a problem behavior.

 

[Seattle1]

Did anyone catch the footage of Detective Laura who said she identified foot prints belonging to Maggie going one direction, then turning around and going in the opposite direction? Was that Maggie hearing the shots and unsure which way to run?

Black: shooter?
Yellow: trail of bullet casings
Red: Maggie?

View attachment 398642

I recall the detective described MM as perhaps "pacing."

I wondered if she was there to collect PM and waiting for him to finish up his chores, she walked around, opposite the kennels towards to lodge not to distract or engage the dogs -- especially if she'd already let them run and penned them up for the evening.

 

[otto]

If Alex was wearing a blue-tarp rain coat and standing outside the window of the storage shed when Paul was shot, that explains the absence of blood evidence on his t-shirt.