GUILTY SC - Paul Murdaugh & mom Margaret Found Shot To Death - Alex Murdaugh Accused - Islandton #40

[Cindizzi]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1632396383142526978

 

[clearskies1]

I'm no gun expert, but I'm wondering if the low angle of the shotgun blasts could be because Alex did not want to pull the trigger from a shoulder position because recoil might leave a suspicious bruise on his shoulder. Wondering if this may be reason for the low angle, rather than trying to make it look like a shorter person was the killer. JMO.

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

I wonder how the Pundit class will reconcile their handwringing over the prosecution 'blunders' and flawed trial strategy with the rapid verdict?

Especially i find it hard to reconcile some of the coverage with the fact that apparently only 2 jurors were not convinced before retiring, and they were convinced seemingly after only an hour or 2 of deliberating?

Maybe the strategy was perfect for low information jurors who hadn't spent the last years following the case in detail

e.g establishing AM as a crooked lawyer was crucial to derailing the main plank of the defence

And an add to this I just read on another thread, while jurors did not take notes during testimony and in the courtroom, it was reported that they did note down their questions during break. Nice approach if so to keep track of things. I’ve not been on a jury before; got excused from the box once I was being questioned by counsel. I can see where trying to make notes during testimony could lead to missing something possibly. MO.

 

[clearskies1]

For anyone interested in the investigation of Stephen Smith's death, there is a separate thread on it: SC - SC - Stephen Smith, 19, Hampton Co, 9 Jul 2015

 

[Megnut]

Observation: if dinner was all about one big happy family meal made by Blanca, Alec should've been able to recall, with ease, the topics. Methinks he didn't want to say. Because, either he wasn't there for that part or the conversation was directly and causally associated with what occurred after dinner.

Perhaps Paul fell onto his phone. Which is why Alec rolled him over. Messing with the pocket, looking for the bag of pills.

JMO

 

[Napoli]

i had missed the "pedi" message. I am dumbfounded that when a family that spends money as they did ..the husband would question a Pedi which I am certain was a routine appointment along with mani. That gives me a real insight into Maggie getting more and more savvy about impending financial doom...a small clue but for a woman who is used to unlimited hair/nail and other appointments....being able to furnish multiple very large homes...clearly a lavish lifestyle...and AM is questioning and going to talk with her about a "pedi"????

Spoken words vs text words..emphasis could have been you were getting a ped!! Like that was a good thing. That's the problem with texting...I do NOT think spending 60 bucks on a pedi was a financial problem. At any given moment, they were feeding half the world at their home..paul's friends, buster's friends, their friends..they had lots of domestic help...nah.. this wasnt about an unaffordable trip for a manicure and pedicure. jmo

 

[jjonez]

OTOH, there is Video of John Marvin going to the house a couple days later and loading arms full of guns into a pick up and driving away. Cover ups seem a way of life. MOO

I keep seeing this description of the “drone video”. Do you have a link?

MOO - I saw the drone video on the Netflix series. I saw JMM (with BM) load only TWO long guns into a truck, along with a tote (not full of guns, but a hat and other rando items). Then they grabbed a dog and left. It looked pretty typical of a hunting trip. It is possible that it was just staged to look like one. But I don’t know where this “arms full of guns” is coming from.

Also, what was the exact date? Everyone seems to have a different opinion. I didn’t catch the exact date. But I had the impression that it was well after the homicides, not just “a couple days later”. MOO

 

[ch_13]

The problem I have with AM killing MM for money, just didn't add up to me. AM had more than enough assets to cover everything he owed to the firm.

No he didn't. At the time of the murders his dad was still alive and the homes were all in Maggie's name. According to the article you linked he had about $3.3 million to his own name. (Actually, less because taxes and penalties will take out a big chunk of that sum.) He owed the Satterfield boys alone over $4 million. We don't know how much he owed in total, but it's probably at least double that to his clients alone. Then there were the failed land deals and the bank loans which have been alluded to. I wouldn't be surprised if he had more than $10 million in debt.

And even if you throw in his inheritance from his dad and the properties, at best he'd be dead broke. Plus there's no way to unravel his stealing without him getting disbarred at the very least and probably going to prison. Even if he did manage to stay a free man, what was he going to do, sell all the houses and move into some run-down apartment complex? Maybe he could find work cleaning the kennels for the new owner of Moselle.

 

[Mysticeilis]

It was very odd. He removed the chicken from Bubba's mouth and put it on top of the dog house -- told a story about how Bubba does not kill chickens and only wants to show the master he caught the chicken, and at some point, we learned the chicken was dead.

Hunting dogs are trained to return birds that were shot by “gumming” the bird - not to chew on the bird. Yes, Alex did confess on the stand during his rambling that the bird did die.

 

[Katrinepa]

I believe there was much press coverage of the events long before jury selection...they simply could not get a jury that had not heard about the family and the case...DH of defense said that and was concerned that each side could not individually voir dire each juror. They were probably asked if they can set aside any opinions and judge strictly based on evidence presented during trial. I remember thinking jury selection went super fast. We know very little about each juror and their background. But I do think no matter what jury saw press in advance of the case and probably saw the worldwide media attention outside the courthouse. Both were hard to escape.

I only recently learned how the Jury was chosen, and frankly was shocked. Having studied some Criminal Justice in college in NJ, I never heard of such an odd 'procedure'. In the Northeast(I assumed everywhere, and Wrong) Both sides interview potential Jurors, which seems most fair to me. While I totally agree with this Jury's Verdict, the process overall irks me a bit. I'm sure there are good legal reasons, but surprised. I'll have to do some research when I have time, as I would love to understand. Of course, in many ways, South Carolina is a different world from the one I live in. JMPOV

 

[geevee]

yes agree 100%...said similar some posts up. No one questioned anything about this or confirmed anything. Just because he bought drugs does not mean he ingested all of those and not one law partner, friend catching on? Yes good point he never moved on to some other drug of choice.

I think his 'huge addiction' is a cover for the trafficking he and Fast Eddie did.

 

[10ofRods]

Very good points.
We only have AM’s word about his weekend detoxing sessions that supposedly Maggie helped him with.
I have seriously doubted from the get go that AM was much of a drug addict.

When Mrs. Satterfield found pills among Alec's possessions, according to the Netflix documentary, she told Paul because she was afraid to tell Maggie.

I consider that some indication of his pill use. That was in 2018.

When Paul found pills in Alec's computer bag, he sent a message to Maggie, which still survives. I believe Paul.

Maggie gets hold of the pills and finds out that one of the types is oxycontin, 30mg.

Murdaugh murders: Paul confronted father about finding pills month before shooting, prosecutors say

"Mom found several bags of pills in your computer bag," Paul said to his father in a voicemail roughly a month before the killings.

abc7chicago.com

When JMM (I believe it was) says that Alec lost control of his bowels in someone's truck, I believe that was part of withdrawal.

I don't know how many pills a day Alec was taking, but I find this to be a picture of addiction. And there were other bits and pieces to the story as well.

There is absolutely no rule that says oxycodone/oxycontin users will progress to heroin - different drug, different supply chain, not everyone's next drug of choice. I personally don't find it hard to believe that on some days, Alec was taking 30 pills. He might have alternated between oxycodone and the other pill found by Paul, apparently Librium (chlordiazepoxide - more powerful than xanax or valium) according to this article:

//The pills appear to be oxycodone and chlordiazepoxide.//

Alex Murdaugh’s wife and son found ‘bags of pills’ one month before murders

‘I am still in EB because when you get here we have to talk. Mom found several bags of pills in your computer bag,’ it says

www.independent.co.uk

And Paul didn't find "a bag" of pills, he found "bags of pills." 30 pills a day of oxycontin is not impossible if he builds up over 20 years.

IMO.

 

[Steelhead]

I found it very fascinating that he went away or stayed with Maggies family after the murders…..like no shame in that man.

There’s no doubt he has no shame, but I don’t think that’s why he stayed with them. He stayed with them to keep an eye on them, be in control. IMO.

 

[Elley Mae]

I don't recall hearing during trial that he usually carried it in a front pocket, but it's certainly possible. From the timeline of his cell usage that night, I do tend to think he had the phone in his hand when he was first shot, and not in his pocket.

Loving talks about Paul’s cell phone habits. He says Paul used his phone a lot and would typically respond quickly. He says Paul kept the phone in one of his front pockets, he would’ve remembered if Paul kept it in his back pocket.

Close friends of Paul Murdaugh testify in murder trial

COLLETON COUNTY, S.C. (WCBD) – Witness testimony on cell phone data continued Wednesday in the Alex Murdaugh murder trial, with two of Paul Murdaugh’s close friends taking the stand. Al…

www.counton2.com

 

[Cindizzi]

AM never mentioned grabbing PM by the belt loop until he was on the stand.

Apparently the Defense really wanted to clear up how the phone had “popped out of his pocket “ and which side of PM he was on.
And AM reason for picking up the phone.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1628801294361317376

 

[Napoli]

Alex Murdaugh's risky testimony ultimately brought him down | CNN

Convicted former attorney Alex Murdaugh's decision to take the stand at his double murder trial was not entirely surprising given his family's legal legacy in South Carolina. It turned out to be a costly move.

www.cnn.com

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

The problem I have with AM killing MM for money, just didn't add up to me. AM had more than enough assets to cover everything he owed to the firm. Families in the south generally help each h
other out financially. We had an in law embezzle from the bank she worked. It was a big secret. The family paid the bank back in full, and the in law repaid the family. The family was shocked our nephew married such a woman.

I do think MM was trying to hide his assets in the wrongful death boating accident. This is why his assets were frozen.

I keep in mind, all of the accident victims were compensated by the boat insurance. The families were suing MM, BM, MM, PM and the bar for compensation, as well.

Alex Murdaugh has millions in 'protected' assets, but who will be compensated?

Alex Murdaugh's assets include retirement funds and an 'island' property in Beaufort County.

www.greenvilleonline.com

...Murdaugh's current assets:

• Three bank accounts, containing a total of $10,000 in cash.
• A retirement account worth somewhere between $2.1 and $2.2 million
• An IRA retirement fund worth somewhere between $350,000 and $400,000
• Real estate that Murdaugh has an interest in, along with other individuals, but can’t liquidate without court action, including a hunting club and some “small islands” around Beaufort County. Some of this real estate is owned through LLCs, Lay said.

Property records indicate that Murdaugh is listed as a co-owner of three wooded tracts totaling 30 acres amid the waterways of St. Helena Island. These tracts have a total estimated appraised value of $687,000, Beaufort County public records show.

Murdaugh's future assets:​

• An estate trust that is expected to come to Murdaugh following the June 2021 death of his father, Randolph Murdaugh III. The amount of this trust and when it will transfer to Murdaugh isn’t known at this time, Lay said.
• Probate assets that are expected to come to Murdaugh following the June 2021 death of his wife, Maggie Murdaugh, who was shot and killed at their Colleton County home along with their younger son, Paul.

These assets include a beach house on Edisto Island and the “Moselle” property where Murdaugh was living with his wife and younger son at the time of the double homicide. The Moselle property, which contains 11 parcels of land totaling 1,772.2 acres in both Colleton and Hampton counties, has a total appraised value of $934,800, according to Hampton and Colleton property tax records.

But he was cash poor and he had to be willing to sell the assets, admit his deceit and failures, something I don’t think he would ever do. The morning of the murders the law firm did ask him about missing funds, the murders stopped that inquiry. The murders effectively stopped the boat lawsuit. Tinsley testified that after losing his wife and son, there would be no way a jury would punish him further with a large settlement. Tinsley was asking for Mossell the beach house in addition to money because he was told Alex had no money. It was the $792K that he won in a settlement with his friend Chris Wilson that SG asked about, she said AM got sloppy. He told CW it was OK to pay the funds directly to Alex. After JS had asked him about the missing $$, he told Chris he would need to get the funds back to him and let Chris deposit them the correct way in the firms account. Alex only gave him 600,000 back and Chris Wilson put in his own 192K. This cleared that specific issue up. It was in believe late August, that JS testified a paralegal found a check on Alex‘s desk that he should not have had and that is when she reviewed Alex’s acct. and found the fake Forge account, Alex was fired/resigned. It seems the common denominators when somebody chooses murder is to retain they have, not have to share through divorce, and or save the reputation not have to reveal what they have been doing, trying to solve a problem. Alex had spent more than a decade robbing Peter to pay Paul, I don’t see him as someone who would find a conscious and stop doing that. Moo

CFO of Murdaugh's firm says he is gifted in the 'art of bull****'

Jeanne Seckinger told jurors in his double-murder trial Tuesday she confronted Murdaugh, 54, over $792,000 in stolen fees on the day Maggie, 52, and Paul, 22, were killed.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Palmetto State Bank CEO Jan Malinowski testified that Murdaugh’s accounts were frequently overdrawn by hundreds of thousands of dollars in 2021 and a former executive, convicted in federal court in November, would loan himself and Murdaugh money from client trust funds.

He testified Murdaugh’s account balance was overdrawn by more than $347,000 in August 2021.
moo

 

[10ofRods]

I don't know much about addiction but the reported heavy use of 60+daily was for how long...no question as the years go along whatevery the desired mood to be achieved from taking the pills would increase ie not stay the same at 60. Was he needing so much more and without money to get adequate supply? You don't stay at the same dosage...he must have been immune at some point and need more. Not one LE including SLEd called for a test? And when put in jail was he detoxed? The whole drug story is mysterious.

He didn't start out at 60 pills a day. He says maybe 1000mg a day, on the stand, IIRC. That's 30 pills a day, btw, if we calculate using the pills that Maggie and Paul found bags of.

Alex Murdaugh’s wife and son found ‘bags of pills’ one month before murders

‘I am still in EB because when you get here we have to talk. Mom found several bags of pills in your computer bag,’ it says

www.independent.co.uk

It's just not unheard of. And people who gradually increase pain meds over a long period (say at least since 2018 when Mrs Satterfield found his pills) do not get "high" in the usual sense of the word. The "desired mood" is to maintain opiate levels in the blood, because the pain and discomfort of withdrawal is looming. Most addicts of this type will vary their dose downward (sometimes every other day, sometimes two days a week) to keep from having to bump up. The lower dose days are uncomfortable for them because they begin to feel pain again and also feel quite irritable.

Most high functioning addicts (or people who use pain meds legitimately) know how to maintain at a particular dose that either does not go up for periods of time or goes up very gradually. Alec spoke of his own attempts to "detox" (probably forced by unavailability of drugs). He sounds to me as if he has several times been forced to back his dose down - by his own lack of pills or because Maggie was onto him.

For all we know, he might have eventually graduated to a higher dose, but I am guessing he knew the implications of doing that and while the opiates were no longer giving a high, they were indeed still giving him the ability to function without severe withdrawal - and likely, some degree of pain prevention (without the opiates, his own body would not be able to produce enough endogenous morphine to soothe him).

IMO.

Spoken words vs text words..emphasis could have been you were getting a ped!! Like that was a good thing. That's the problem with texting...I do NOT think spending 60 bucks on a pedi was a financial problem. At any given moment, they were feeding half the world at their home..paul's friends, buster's friends, their friends..they had lots of domestic help...nah.. this wasnt about an unaffordable trip for a manicure and pedicure. jmo

Maggie's checks were bouncing. Alec was $300,000 overdrawn. He had just been fired. What domestic help did they have at the time of the murders, except for the Moselle caretaker (who might have done his job in return for a place to live - do you know whether he was paid?)

When rich people go down, they panic as much as poor people, IME. Maybe more. We cannot judge how rich they were at that time by past parties they'd thrown.

Alec had just gotten his dying father to co-sign on a $600,000 LOC, IIRC.

I repeat: Maggie bounced a check (and, in my imagination, could not possibly have been happy about that). She had just $57 in her personal spending account.

Financially controlling spouses are a real thing, btw. It could certainly have been about finances. IMO.

Alex and Maggie Murdaugh's relationship was in crisis, source reveals

A source close to the Murdaugh family told DailyMail.com that Alex and Maggie's marriage was in crisis.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Elley Mae]

Remember AM said after they ate Paul left first and he didn’t know if he was in the house or he went out and down to the kennels? I wondered if Paul found his pills then he and Maggie went to kennels first. AM naps <not then goes to kennels, AM probably went for his pills why the delay in going then went and probably showed up when Bubba had chicken.

Jmo

 

[bestill]

Remains to be seen, but at least there is a Crack in the facade. I hope the Press will continue on.

FitsNews will stay on it, this is career building for Mandy Matney JMO

So true. And I posted earlier too in another thread, his speaking demeanor, dialect, accent, and manner reminds me much of the late Shelby Foote. A prominent historian on topics including the Civil War. Loved to hear him speak in Ken Burn’s documentary on the Civil War.

And Dr. Kinsey’s testimony was very good and precise, and I found it quite compelling. An excellent late or closing witness for the prosecution. He was outstanding. As was Creighton Water’s close and Jim Meadors final closing rebuttal. Quite an effort and trial.
MOO.

I don't think any recreation will ever be as riveting as the actual trial was. I don't think that it can be reproduced, at least not in my lifetime. JMO