GUILTY SC - Shooting reported at Townville Elementary, Jacob Hall, 6, killed, Sept 2016

[Inthedetails]

That's generally the preferred focus and I definitely understand why. "Why was he angry and how can we fix it" is an abstract thing to focus on. We can't fix other people's anger.

So...a kid is angry and we can't fix it? Isn't that what adults are supposed to do....help the next generation, ensure their health, raise them to be functional adults?

 

[Dogface]

I hear ya, but I honestly think the problem is something other than access to guns.

I grew up with guns in the house. They were not locked up. The ammo wasn't locked either. I never, ever even thought about touching my dad's guns. My husband also grew up with guns and had guns himself, and they weren't locked at his house either (though at least they kept ammo in a different place than the guns). No one in our families ever used the guns except on animals in hunting season. Probably most kids I went to school with were in similar home situations.

The problem isn't access to guns. The problem is an angry child/teen who has access to guns.

WHY SUCH ANGER?! That is the issue we're sweeping under the rug with each and every shooting tragedy. We don't want to face the anger our children have in this country and we're not willing to do the work to solve it.

I know many here will disagree with me. That's okay. This is how I see it. We've created rage and it's killing us. We either do something different than what we're doing now....or we wring our hands again at the next school shooting.

I actually totally agree. My family, parents and grandparents, always kept their gun in a gun cabinet, it didn't lock, had a glass front, and not one of the literal dozens of us grandkids and cousins ever touched one without permission. Unfortunately emotional intelligence seems to be a thing of a past, and you can't even trust children coming over for sleepovers. But the issue of murdering someone doesn't lie within the weapon of choice, it's an issue with the person for sure.

 

[Tawny]

So...a kid is angry and we can't fix it? Isn't that what adults are supposed to do....help the next generation, ensure their health, raise them to be functional adults?

I don't know how I'm supposed to answer to other people and how they raise their children.

 

[Tawny]

Most homicides happen inside the home, because of easy access to guns. These school shootings are outliers, and not the norm. That's a whole other discussion though and not the focus of this thread.

 

[Inthedetails]

I don't know how I'm supposed to answer to other people and how they raise their children.

Right. We as a culture have dropped the ball. Somehow we gave up the job of being adults. (This isn't directed at you or anyone in particular, but to all of us.)

That's how I see it. This is a cultural problem and we don't feel like dealing with it so we don't.

jmopinion

 

[Tawny]

Right. We as a culture have dropped the ball. Somehow we gave up the job of being adults. (This isn't directed at you or anyone in particular, but to all of us.)

That's how I see it. This is a cultural problem and we don't feel like dealing with it so we don't.

jmopinion

I agree. That's also how I feel about macho gun culture. JMO

It's a compound issue.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I prefer fewer firearms. JMO.

I do too. We have an epidemic in this country when it comes to illegal obtained firearms being involved in the majority of violent crimes. They will get one which is hot off the street from an ex-con or someone who is coming in from over our open borders who is a gun runner. Gun runners only sell their weapons to those they know cant get one legally so they will become the next billionaires like the drug lords. Or they will pay a straw man to go purchase the gun for them legally and then give it to the ex-felon knowing full when firearms are wanted illegally they are usually wanted to commit crimes against another person. Or someone will pierce the sanctuary of a person's home/business and steal possessions including firearms. Or as in this case they will take a weapon they had no legal right to take and will even murder to get it.

If somehow we could roundup all of the illegal guns that are saturating so many streets/neighborhoods in the large inner cities violent crime including armed robberies, rapes, and murders would plummet like a rock. Many of the murder cases we see where the defendant will have an added enhancement sentence charge for having and using a firearm when they had no legal right to carry a weapon due to being an ex-con. The gun is often stolen either by that suspect or by another who then sells it on the street. Its a vicious cycle. If the police had only been able to find the illegal gun on the ex-con it could prevent many violent crimes from ever happening.

I read an article about firearm homicides at the first of this year and it said if we could take out all of the homicides being done by those using illegal firearms in just five-six top homicide rated cities our overall homicide rate would fall to fourth from the bottom worldwide. Fourth from the bottom worldwide. How nice that would be to see.

Even though homicide rates have climbed in certain specific cities the overall homicide rate still remains way below what it was in the 90s for individual overall state/city homicides when it was at its highest peak ever. It has declined for two decades now from what it was in the 90s yet more legal weapons are being purchased than ever in our history. I think we know about more cases now due to instant media coverage and the internet.

Now if our LE could find a good legal constitutional way to take all the guns away from those who have illegal obtained one in some way our world would be a much different place with far less homicides and other violent crime. I hope there is something that can be done legally about this problem.

 

[human]

I believe they are in every room.

The power packed in those things, one would be enough, but bring on 2 or 3 at the same time! It would take brave souls but I have no doubt there are adults in those buildings willing to do that for those children. Every school shooting seems to have those people who either died protecting or put their life on the line to try to protect.

As a retired teacher, this is what we have to do. Get all children into the designated area in the classroom. (Never knew what we would do on the playground) The designated area is one where a shooter cannot shoot the children through a window or a wall. The wall chosen has to be one that bullets cannot penetrate. And the children cannot be huddled together as bullets go through them like butter. Aim for one and the shooter can take a bunch out at one shot.

If there are windows in the classroom, pull all shades down. Of course, step one is to lock the classroom door.

And of course you have to keep the children absolutley silent so the shooter is not alerted to your presence. I feel there is no time for a fire extinguisher. As a teacher, should the teacher make a decision with a gun when trained officers have issues with that?

As a teacher, we look to finding the positive in each child. Blowing one away who may have been a former student or neighbor seems a bit harsh.

Funny these issues happen rarely in other countries.

 

[bluesneakers]

Right. We as a culture have dropped the ball. Somehow we gave up the job of being adults. (This isn't directed at you or anyone in particular, but to all of us.)

That's how I see it. This is a cultural problem and we don't feel like dealing with it so we don't.

jmopinion

"‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens"

(Yes, it's the Onion but it's so true.)

 

[Tawny]

As a retired teacher, this is what we have to do. Get all children into the designated area in the classroom. (Never knew what we would do on the playground) The designated area is one where a shooter cannot shoot the children through a window or a wall. The wall chosen has to be one that bullets cannot penetrate. And the children cannot be huddled together as bullets go through them like butter. Aim for one and the shooter can take a bunch out at one shot.

If there are windows in the classroom, pull all shades down. Of course, step one is to lock the classroom door.

And of course you have to keep the children absolutley silent so the shooter is not alerted to your presence. I feel there is no time for a fire extinguisher. As a teacher, should the teacher make a decision with a gun when trained officers have issues with that?

As a teacher, we look to finding the positive in each child. Blowing one away who may have been a former student or neighbor seems a bit harsh.

Funny these issues happen rarely in other countries.

The shooter can only be in one place at a time. Once the children are secure, there has to be someone somewhere who can grab the extinguisher, no? Securing the children is priority, absolutely.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Right. We as a culture have dropped the ball. Somehow we gave up the job of being adults. (This isn't directed at you or anyone in particular, but to all of us.)

That's how I see it. This is a cultural problem and we don't feel like dealing with it so we don't.

jmopinion

I do see a stark difference in how some children are being raised now and how they use to be when raising my children. It cant be because women now work out of the home. My own mom always worked a fulltime job and that was a long time ago. I did too yet I had enough time to make sure I cooked a homecooked meal every night after getting off work, help them with their homework, wash their clothes, do chores, and make sure they got to whatever activity they were in at the time during school. Heck back then we set a time limit on how long they could watch tv during the school week after their homework was done. They had a certain time they had to go to bed so we could make sure they were fully rested for school the next day. Not one of them complained or whined. It was just normal to them and the schedule they followed.

Back then the parents knew all moral teachings and guidance of right and wrong and nurturing the children were their sole responsibility and they met those responsibilities . They didn't try to blame someone else for what their child did or failed to do. Now we seem to see so many parents be combative themselves even at school when the teacher dares to say their child has done something wrong. So if the child/children see their parents be mean aggressive abusive bullies to those at school then the child will learn the same behavior believing nothing is ever their fault.

Now that doesn't include all parents who are raising their children now by any means for I do still see many very involved supportive parents who do raise their children to the very best of their ability and don't have the mentality of 'never my child' 'or here's $50 go to the Mall and get out of my hair" but who are constantly an important part of their lives when they are growing up. I think computers and cell phones have made it even worse. It seems no one actually sits down much to verbally talk one on one to their children where they can develop good verbal social communications skills they will need when they get out in workplace.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

"‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens"

(Yes, it's the Onion but it's so true.)

Actually believe it or not the USA doesn't even rate in the top 100 countries in the world when it comes to the amount of homicide deaths committed every year. There are some very violent countries all across the world much more dangerous than our country ever has been.

 

[human]

"‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens"

(Yes, it's the Onion but it's so true.)

As a person who lives in a Third World Nation that is a colony, I can tell you as an American, people from all over the world ask me what is the matter with America. I live in a place that gets lots of tourists .

Other countries have drugs, some even more than the US as they are closer to the source . (Look up what some European countries sre doing about drugs). They have very diverse populations. They have magazines right in the open with nudes as well as plenty of nude beaches all over. They have plenty of violent video games. They have mental illness they treat with heavy duty chemicals,

When some countries such as England and Australia had gun massacres, they addressed the problem. America will continue to live with this as the new normal

 

[Tawny]

Actually believe it or not the USA doesn't even rate in the top 100 countries in the world when it comes to the amount of homicide deaths committed every year. There are some very violent countries all across the world much more dangerous than our country ever has been.

IMO there is a difference between your average homicide and the epidemic of mass shootings, especially in schools. We have more by leagues.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

As a retired teacher, this is what we have to do. Get all children into the designated area in the classroom. (Never knew what we would do on the playground) The designated area is one where a shooter cannot shoot the children through a window or a wall. The wall chosen has to be one that bullets cannot penetrate. And the children cannot be huddled together as bullets go through them like butter. Aim for one and the shooter can take a bunch out at one shot.

If there are windows in the classroom, pull all shades down. Of course, step one is to lock the classroom door.

And of course you have to keep the children absolutley silent so the shooter is not alerted to your presence. I feel there is no time for a fire extinguisher. As a teacher, should the teacher make a decision with a gun when trained officers have issues with that?

As a teacher, we look to finding the positive in each child. Blowing one away who may have been a former student or neighbor seems a bit harsh.

Funny these issues happen rarely in other countries.

Interesting. Thanks. Do they ever prepare for a scenario where a radical terrorist may come to the school with bombs?

 

[human]

The shooter can only be in one place at a time. Once the children are secure, there has to be someone somewhere who can grab the extinguisher, no? Securing the children is priority, absolutely.

Hopefully everyone is behind locked doors waiting for LE. School personnel are not trained to handle armed out of control people. LE has a hard enough time with their riot gear .

 

[Tawny]

Interesting. Thanks. Do they ever prepare for a scenario where a radical terrorist may come to the school with bombs?

I'm not sure how that's relevant to the topic?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

IMO there is a difference between your average homicide and the epidemic of mass shootings, especially in schools. We have more by leagues.

Nah, not really. Homicides are homicides being carried out. It doesn't matter the tool or method selected to commit those homicides for the victims all over the world are just as dead. Many other countries across our world kills more in mass casualties than we do and its done much more often.

 

[Tawny]

Nah, not really. Homicides are homicides being carried out. It doesn't matter the tool or method selected to commit those homicides for the victims all over the world are just as dead. Many other countries across our world kills more in mass casualties than we do and its done much more often.

So then why do we have so many mass shootings in places like schools and theaters? What makes us different?

What you're talking about with mass casualties in other parts of the world are areas that are in violent conflict, war, etc. That is not the same by far.

 

[human]

Interesting. Thanks. Do they ever prepare for a scenario where a radical terrorist may come to the school with bombs?

We started the lockdowns after Columbine. I used to believe that all school districts were required by law to do it, but according to some posters on WS, they claim their districts do not do it. We did it six times a year. One of them was to walk to another building which was a Catholic school.

We have always had bomb threats at schools. I imagine that is common. Often it is a kid doing a prank. It is not as easy as in the olden days when there were not all of the ways to trace calls.

With a bomb threat, all children are taken out of the building further away than a fire drill. Bomb sniffing dogs come in and whatever personnel such as LE and firefighters check the building. We did bomb threats 40 years ago so I don't think that is a new one.

Columbine has a following. A poster on another topic posted a reference to how kids emulate and study them. That study said the shooting is never a snap. It is always planned a long time in advance.