School children taught about gay foreplay

[Linda7NJ]

Not to get too graphic, but unless you lubricate both sides VERY thoroughly, it wouldn't offer much sensation. And you might well end up with "plastic burns" in uncomfortable places.

As for its efficacy in preventing STDs or pregnancy, I have no idea. I wouldn't trust it.

As my husband's father told him, "For God's sake, spend a quarter!" (That was the sum total of the sex education my husband received in the 1950s.)

Ouch!!!!


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[Kat]

I don't know anyone that claimed to either. Been thinking about it, Saran Wrap is pretty amazing stuff.... Bet it would work lol. Duct tape is usually my go to trusted product, but in this instance .... Don't think so.


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LOL @ Duct tape (ouch)

I haven't heard of dental dams being used in real life either. In fact, I had to go look up the term many years ago (IIRC about 10 years ago) because they were referred to as "female condoms". I was wondering exactly what that was...so that's how I know

 

[Confusion]

I think adults have to get comfortable talking about sex seriously (but without describing it as sinful, desirable, or any other subjective things). Kids always have questions, and probably always will. When we had our "sex education class" when I was 12 (it lasted for an hour a day on two days), there was one girl who asked, "How do you know if you're pregnant?" The response she was given was that she didn't need to worry about it at her age. She tried a few times to get an answer, but they never did tell her. She eventually did find out for sure when she had her baby about 6 months later. She had been at camp over the summer and one of the counselors got her pregnant; she was still 12 when the baby was born.

My belief has always been that if they're old enough to ask a question, they're old enough to get an answer. I just tried to stick with age appropriate information unless they asked further questions.

 

[shefner]

I'm one of those parents that opted out of my children taking sex education in school. Their dad and I felt that training was our responsibility. We wanted them to hear our viewpoints and explanations first. We talked to all four of them in age appropriate ways about sex and sexuality, marriage and relationships, responsibility, drug and alcohol use/abuse and good moral character.

Not all of our children accepted our viewpoints but they were not ignorant about their choices and behaviors. They are all in their 20's now. Two are married and have children, one is getting married in a few weeks and another is single.

Some of my children have hurt me deeply with disregard for what we preferred for them, but in the end they must live their own lives. My husband and I have relationships with each of our children, based our their desire to keep in touch and connect with us. Out of the 4, we only have one child who chooses a more distant relationship with us. We see or speak with the other three almost daily.

I am far from the perfect parent, but I have no regrets about my choices for their exposure to and training about sex education. It wasn't always easy to be open, but we did it. That's what being a responsible parent means to me.

 

[Nova]

What a sad, sad story, Confusion. And one that should be a lesson to us all.

 

[Nova]

shefner, you're not the type of parent who worries me, because you ARE being responsible in educating your children about sex.

The ones I worry about--if we let kids opt out of sex ed in school--are those whose parents are too uncomfortable to talk about sex at home.

I absolutely agree that the best sex education takes place in the home (even when I don't agree with some of the "morality" that children are taught).

But sex ed in school is a back-up for those kids who aren't getting that education at home. If we simply allow parents to "opt out", won't those who are uncomfortable with the entire subject (or who erroneously believe that by not talking they can prevent sex from happening) be the most likely to keep their kids from getting necessary info?

 

[RLynne]

I'm not going to respond to the original blog post that was posted, and I'll also give a caveat--I'm not a professional in sex ed, and while I did some extensive research on the topic a number of years ago, it was, well, a number of years ago--so my info may be out of date. I just want to respond to some comments here.

First, the only 100% sure way to prevent STIs and unwanted pregnancies is to not have sex.

Second, female condoms and dental dams are totally different. A dental dam is basically just a square of latex, intended to be used as a barrier for mouth-to-vagina or mouth-to anal contact. Very few people use them, unfortunately. A female condom is basically an inside-out version of a traditional condom, more info here: Female condom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Third, saran wrap is generally accepted as being an effective barrier for STIs when used as protection for oral/vaginal and oral/anal sex (and in some cases, when applied to sex toys). However, it's not ideal--a dental dam is preferred, as saran wrap is more likely to tear. It really should never be used as a pregnancy protection for penis/vagina contact, as it's just not going to work as well as a condom.

Finally: while things like condoms and dental dams are pretty effective in preventing STIs, and things like condoms, hormonal birth control, and IUDs are pretty effective in preventing unwanted pregnancies, the only 100% sure way to prevent these things is not having sex.

 

[Nova]

RLynne, you are absolutely right, of course, that the only 100% safe sex is no sex at all. And the only 100% safe driving is to never get into a car. And the only 100% protection from airborne viruses is to live in a plastic bubble.

With sex, as in most areas of life, the real question is how do we minimize the risk while continuing to live our lives?

Because, perhaps unfortunately, those who rely on intentions to abstain from sex end up with higher rates of unwanted pregnancy and STDS.

One study:

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2012/04/10/461402/teen-pregnancy-sex-education/?mobile=nc

More comprehensive:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstinence-only_sex_education

***

Thanks for the clarification on female condoms. I think the OP was just saying that the same term is sometimes used as slang for dental dams.

But as for the actual female condom, I remember a flurry of PR when it was invented, but I've heard little since. (No female in my marriage, so it isn't used in my house.) Are women using them? Do they and their partners find them satisfying? Have you heard? (I.e., I'm not asking you for your personal experience, which is none of my business.)

(I don't know if the same device can be used for anal intercourse, but if gay men are using them, they are not, in my experience, talking about them.)

 

[Linda7NJ]

Not to get too graphic, but unless you lubricate both sides VERY thoroughly, it wouldn't offer much sensation. And you might well end up with "plastic burns" in uncomfortable places.

As for its efficacy in preventing STDs or pregnancy, I have no idea. I wouldn't trust it.

As my husband's father told him, "For God's sake, spend a quarter!" (That was the sum total of the sex education my husband received in the 1950s.)

I think it's so cool that you can now legally say "my husband" !!!! Cant wait until every state recognizes the civil rights of everyone. Just wondering how awesome it is for you? Also wondering if its exactly the same as the rights given to hetro marriages?


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[RLynne]

Nova, I think we're very much on the same page. I am *all* about minimizing risk, while being realistic about human nature. When I did my research project on sex ed, I read *so many* curricula, from Planned Parenthood-approved comprehensive sex ed, to many abstinence-focused curricula. I met with a local school board member to talk about what my local schools were teaching, I went on-line an ordered a number of books, and I went to all the local Christian bookstores to see what they had.

Here's my take on sex ed, especially when aimed towards kids: we need to teach kids that the best protection is no sex. However, if you're doing to do it... be safe, and here are the best protections [fill in the blank].

I have a major problem with abstinence-only sex ed. It is both unrealistic (oooh, we can tell kids to "just say no" to sex! Never mind their rampaging hormones...) and often fear-based, e.g., we can scare kids/people from having sex (the worst that I read claimed that, if a man and a women had sex using a condom, the woman had to douche with Lysol afterwards--therefore, you should just never have sex--ugh.)

To sum up: if you're in a non-committed relationship, don't be afraid to say "no" or to insist on certain things (like condoms, dental dams, etc.) to protect yourself if you have sex. If you're in a committed relationship, get tested for STIs and share the results (and insist the same from your partner) before you have non-barrier-protected sex. Protect yourself from unintended pregnancy and also from STIs, and talk to your partner about it.

And...I have no real idea on the use of female condoms, but I'm guessing it's pretty low, at least in the US. I have a fairly wide network of friends that I talk to pretty openly to about sex and safe sex, and I've never had anyone talk about using one... but that's a pretty small sample.

 

[Confusion]

I think it's so cool that you can now legally say "my husband" !!!! Cant wait until every state recognizes the civil rights of everyone. Just wondering how awesome it is for you? Also wondering if its exactly the same as the rights given to hetro marriages?


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It's still not legal in Minnesota, but I think it's a start that they didn't pass the change to our constitution defining marriage as one man and one woman. One step at a time, I guess.

 

[T4Tide]

I don't know anyone that claimed to either. Been thinking about it, Saran Wrap is pretty amazing stuff.... Bet it would work lol. Duct tape is usually my go to trusted product, but in this instance .... Don't think so.


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D!ck Tape?


Why, yes.... I do believe that would prevent a MYRIAD of prevalent disease. :floorlaugh:

 

[otto]

And what exactly is gay fore play?

 

[Linda7NJ]

And what exactly is gay fore play?

The opposite of gay aft play?


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[Nova]

I think it's so cool that you can now legally say "my husband" !!!! Cant wait until every state recognizes the civil rights of everyone. Just wondering how awesome it is for you? Also wondering if its exactly the same as the rights given to hetro marriages?


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Thank you.

I hope I didn't give anyone the impression that I live in Maine. My husband and I reside in California. If I used terms like "us" above, it's because the basic issue (and the attacks against it) end up being the same in every state.

Californians are still waiting for the US Supreme Court to decide whether it will rule on Prop 8 (which was overturned by the appellate courts).

But three different courts have now ruled that those of us who same-sex-married in 2008 before Prop 8 passed cannot be UNmarried by a vote or by a court. So the possibility that my marriage can be annulled isn't something I worry about on a daily basis. Experts I know believe even Scalia and Thomas will think twice before putting the government into the business of annulling marriages.

Of course, the Supremes could decide to review Prop 8 and even uphold it while still allowing existing marriages to stand.

And, yes, my marriage is the same as any other in California, and in states and countries that recognize it. (ETA unless and until SCOTUS says otherwise.)

Let me know if I'm not being clear. Between DOMA (which allows each state to define marriage differently) and all the law suits, the legal landscape is rather hard to explain.

 

[Nova]

Nova, I think we're very much on the same page. I am *all* about minimizing risk, while being realistic about human nature. When I did my research project on sex ed, I read *so many* curricula, from Planned Parenthood-approved comprehensive sex ed, to many abstinence-focused curricula. I met with a local school board member to talk about what my local schools were teaching, I went on-line an ordered a number of books, and I went to all the local Christian bookstores to see what they had.

Here's my take on sex ed, especially when aimed towards kids: we need to teach kids that the best protection is no sex. However, if you're doing to do it... be safe, and here are the best protections [fill in the blank].

I have a major problem with abstinence-only sex ed. It is both unrealistic (oooh, we can tell kids to "just say no" to sex! Never mind their rampaging hormones...) and often fear-based, e.g., we can scare kids/people from having sex (the worst that I read claimed that, if a man and a women had sex using a condom, the woman had to douche with Lysol afterwards--therefore, you should just never have sex--ugh.)

To sum up: if you're in a non-committed relationship, don't be afraid to say "no" or to insist on certain things (like condoms, dental dams, etc.) to protect yourself if you have sex. If you're in a committed relationship, get tested for STIs and share the results (and insist the same from your partner) before you have non-barrier-protected sex. Protect yourself from unintended pregnancy and also from STIs, and talk to your partner about it.

And...I have no real idea on the use of female condoms, but I'm guessing it's pretty low, at least in the US. I have a fairly wide network of friends that I talk to pretty openly to about sex and safe sex, and I've never had anyone talk about using one... but that's a pretty small sample.

We do agree, RLynne. Because I think few high-school (much less middle-school) kids have any business having sex. I just don't think we can stop most of them by saying "No".

Thanks for sharing what you've heard about the female condom. I haven't heard it mentioned since it was invented and until yesterday.

 

[Nova]

It's still not legal in Minnesota, but I think it's a start that they didn't pass the change to our constitution defining marriage as one man and one woman. One step at a time, I guess.

I think it's a HUGE start. Everyone I know feels the same.

 

[cluciano63]

I like the way our county public schools handle it. In eighth grade they send home a form asking if your child has permission to attend the sex and puberty portion of the health class. I have no problem with the cirriculum so I always give permission but I am glad they ask first.

8th grade is too late, though. Aren't the kids about 14 by then?

 

[Nova]

8th grade is too late, though. Aren't the kids about 14 by then?

I was 13 when I started, 14 when the year ended. But I hear a lot of people these days keep their kids out an extra year before kindergarten.

 

[Gardenlady]

I say more sex Ed, and more sex-positive Ed. As Linda said last page, it is a crying shame (literally, I'm sure, for many women! ) that so many heterosexual women have never had an orgasm with a man.

If that means teaching foreplay and masturbation, then go for it. At the very least, it should mean more teaching attention paid to how women experience arousal during sex, not just focusing on men's erect penises!

Sex should be mutually satisfying! :rocker:

And yes - more sex-positive ed absolutely includes information on "gay sex" (such an odd term ... Since hets can and do engage in same practices!), etc, all kinds of sex! Just thought I should clarify that, since in re-reading my post it was pretty heterocentric.