Senator Al Franken accused of unwanted kissing/groping

[Deleted member 117884]

THIS is his original statement. The one posted above in your link is his SECOND statement. I think he received some backlash from his first one so he lengthened it and was more sympathetic. His ORIGINAL response:

“I certainly don’t remember the rehearsal for the skit in the same way, but I send my sincerest apologies to Leeann,” Sen. Franken said in a statement. “As to the photo, it was clearly intended to be funny but wasn’t. I shouldn’t have done it.”

UPDATE (12:56 PM, November 16, 2017): Sen. Franken released a longer statement responding to the allegations.

http://dailycaller.com/2017/11/16/s...ush&utm_source=daily_caller&utm_campaign=push


So Frankens ORIGINAL response was to call her out and say he did not remember it that way--'-BUT I send my sincerest apology to LEAnn.'

I think he met with his attorney afterwards and crafted the longer response, seen above.

Yes, a tweet is different than a longer statement. That's true.

And it can take awhile to figure out how to respond to an accusation. It's hard to sort your own emotions and to get it right. That is entirely understandable, imo, to start with a tweet and then work on a longer form.

Part of taking the accusation seriously is responding to it promptly....and not shutting her down.

jmo

 

[bluesneakers]

Yes, there is a photo. Impossible to say what he would have done it the evidence was audio or countless women with similar stories.

But, yes, there is a photo.

It's impossible to say what he would have done if there weren't a photo, but just because there is a photo it doesn't make what he said meaningless. He might very well be sincere with his apology and promises, and calling for an investigation demonstrates a commitment to see this through. The photograph doesn't erase that.

OR.. he could be full of crap, not mean what he said, and tomorrow 10 more women will have come forward.

 

[kaen]

THIS is his original statement. The one posted above in your link is his SECOND statement. I think he received some backlash from his first one so he lengthened it and was more sympathetic. His ORIGINAL response:

“I certainly don’t remember the rehearsal for the skit in the same way, but I send my sincerest apologies to Leeann,” Sen. Franken said in a statement. “As to the photo, it was clearly intended to be funny but wasn’t. I shouldn’t have done it.”

UPDATE (12:56 PM, November 16, 2017): Sen. Franken released a longer statement responding to the allegations.

http://dailycaller.com/2017/11/16/s...ush&utm_source=daily_caller&utm_campaign=push


So Frankens ORIGINAL response was to call her out and say he did not remember it that way--'-BUT I send my sincerest apology to LEAnn.'

I think he met with his attorney afterwards and crafted the longer response, seen above.

And, he further clarified. His behavior is abhorrent to me. That said, the clarified statement does do what he should do. There is nothing criminally that can be done at this point. Franken is smart enough to know that in order to get the response right he had to get advice. It makes sense, most people who are accused of bad behavior get advice. I can still be pissed at his actions despite his apology without having to fillet him.

 

[Jmoose]

Yes, there is a photo. Impossible to say what he would have done it the evidence was audio or countless women with similar stories.

But, yes, there is a photo.

I keep reading posts that there's audio records of...someone who must remain nameless, assaulting women-since this is the Franken thread, and there is actual evidence that we've all seen of him molesting a sleeping woman, I am wondering why this keeps coming up-especially since some of the rest of us have no access to these audio molestations. Where can I hear them?

 

[Deleted member 117884]

Of course. I would be too. Here is how the victim described it:

“You knew exactly what you were doing. You forcibly kissed me without my consent, grabbed my breasts while I was sleeping and had someone take a photo of you doing it, knowing I would see it later, and be ashamed,” Tweeden wrote in a piece of KABC.

Tweeden said she was only expected to emcee the entertainment tour but Franken had written her into a skit where the two kissed. She says Franken kept insisting they rehearse the kiss before the show and when she finally agreed he “mashed his lips against mine and aggressively stuck his tongue in my mouth.”

“I felt violated all over again. Embarrassed. Belittled. Humiliated,” Tweeden wrote. “How dare anyone grab my breasts like this and think it’s funny?”

http://dailycaller.com/2017/11/16/sen-franken-responds-to-sexual-assault-allegations/

Yes, and she's right. And, she also said this:

“He knew exactly what he did to me then and that that picture was out there,” she said. “The apology? Sure I accept it. People make mistakes and he knew he made a mistake.”

https://nypost.com/2017/11/16/frank...amed-him-fish-lips-after-alleged-forced-kiss/

 

[katydid23]

Yes, a tweet is different than a longer statement. That's true.

And it can take awhile to figure out how to respond to an accusation. It's hard to sort your own emotions and to get it right. That is entirely understandable, imo, to start with a tweet and then work on a longer form.

Part of taking the accusation seriously is responding to it promptly....and not shutting her down.

jmo

Right, but thats my point. His very first sentence was essentially shutting her down. 'Certainly not the way I remember it' seems like a shut down. JMO

 

[Deleted member 117884]

Right, but thats my point. His very first sentence was essentially shutting her down. 'Certainly not the way I remember it' seems like a shut down. JMO

But it's entirely possible the doesn't remember it that way! And....he said he's willing to listen and be investigated.
Sigh.
I give up.

 

[katydid23]

But it's entirely possible the doesn't remember it that way! And....he said he's willing to listen and be investigated.
Sigh.
I give up.

Maybe he doesn't remember it that way. I just think it's funny how some are seemingly making Franken out to be a hero now. When he is just as shady as many of the others, imo.

My original point was that Franken did not 'OWN IT'---as others describe it. Saying 'you do not remember it that way' is NOT owning it, imo. That is denying some portion of it.

And since when does someone have to give permission to be investigated? wow, what a generous act on his part...:no:

 

[katydid23]

But it's entirely possible the doesn't remember it that way! And....he said he's willing to listen and be investigated.
Sigh.
I give up.

He is willing to be investigated? Does he have to be willing?

 

[kaen]

At this point, there is no more to the story, the arguing of his contriteness or his level of shutting down is not really illuminating anything further. I will just have to agree to disagree with some of the statements that interpret what Mr. Franken has said. I am not sure he could ever apologize enough from my perspective but he is a human and is attempting to do something to make up for his assaultive, boorish, crude behavior.

 

[rosemadderlake]

POLITICS

Al Franken Issues Apology After Accusation of Forcible Kissing and Groping
By NICHOLAS FANDOSNOV. 16, 2017

Ms. Tweeden wrote that she had been compelled to share the story after an on-air conversation with Representative Jackie Speier, Democrat of California, who has been a leading voice sounding alarms about sexual harassment on Capitol Hill in recent weeks.

“I want to have the same effect on them that Congresswoman Jackie Speier had on me,” Ms. Tweeden wrote. “I want them, and all the other victims of sexual assault, to be able to speak out immediately, and not keep their stories — and their anger — locked up inside for years, or decades.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/16/...xual-harassment-groping-forcible-kissing.html


---
Congresswoman Speiers and Leeann Tweeden just might bring significant change. Al Franken is an elected official who admits his transgression & guilt. And, the evidence is quite clear. And he may lose his career over this, too.

Is he really sorry? I don't know. But he is busted that is for sure. One point Leeann mentioned was that Hollywood is cutting and running, canceling shows, rewriting, reshooting projects dropping people left and right. And, in her convo with Congresswoman Speiers she felt compelled to come forward because of the climate of silence in Washington. And, I would say notice has been served.

 

[neesaki]

The fact that there's a picture speaks to the culture of it. Men think they're just being funny and not doing anything wrong thus the picture. You don't typically take pictures of some misdeed that could come back to haunt you. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a man that took the pic.

This is true, as inappropriate and screwed up as that mentality is it seems to be very pervasive in our society and our culture. Is there something we can put in their water ? :thinking:

 

[kaen]

This is true, as inappropriate and screwed up as that mentality is it seems to be very pervasive in our society and our culture. Is there something we can put in their water ? :thinking:

Salt peter, like in the old days. No idea if it would really work though.....

 

[PaulR]

But it's entirely possible the doesn't remember it that way! And....he said he's willing to listen and be investigated.
Sigh.
I give up.

"I'm willing to be investigated" usually means "I think my lawyer will get me out of it."

 

[human]

Isn’t this all just locker room type of stuff?

 

[Gardenista]

He could have said many things like - it was a long time ago, it was a joke, she was in on it, it's no big deal, all guys act like this, it doesn't mean anything, celebrities can get away with this.

He didn't say any of that. Instead, he said, I did it. I'm ashamed. I'm sorry. I don't act like that any more - please investigate me. I will work to make the situation better.

I DO NOT CONDONE what he did, but I do notice a difference in his reaction than how other politicians are treating the problem.

jmo

You might want to check his first apology that he wrote himself vs the one you are referring to which was clearly written by his crisis manager. Then you'll know he's not sorry or ashamed at all--he's just pissed.

 

[Gardenista]

"But the intentions behind my actions aren’t the point at all. It’s the impact these jokes had on others that matters."

BBM--This is arrogant and demeaning.

 

[Gardenista]

Yes, a tweet is different than a longer statement. That's true.

And it can take awhile to figure out how to respond to an accusation. It's hard to sort your own emotions and to get it right. That is entirely understandable, imo, to start with a tweet and then work on a longer form.

Part of taking the accusation seriously is responding to it promptly....and not shutting her down.

jmo

The first response was not a tweet. It was a statement.

 

[CoolJ]

His "apology" is meaningless to me. He stuck his tongue in a women's mouth and grabbed her breasts while she was SLEEPING.
How he handles the aftermath does not in anyway change his character. Not to mention it is not him handling the aftermath. It is PR/crisis/lawyers telling him what to say.

This is not the type of behaviour that is one off. This is who he is. This is not an isolated incident.

 

[Datchery]

I wasn't a fan of Franken before this, and think his behavior was certainly inappropriate. But as all these accusations come out, I think we need to recognize that there is a sliding scale of badness, and not all behavior deserves the same response.Let's set aside criminal penalties, since even some of the worst of these incidents are outside the statute of limitations, and the legal burden of proof makes sexual crimes hard to convict on anyway.

Some of these people should never work in their chosen fields again, and to be personae non grata in public life altogether.

Some should have a nice long time out from Hollywood/politics, with all of the associated financial and professional consequences, but might be worthy of being given another chance in time. That doesn't mean they can or should ever get back to the same level of fame or respect, but IMO a total and permanent blackballing may be excessive.

Some have behaved inappropriately and need to apologize, but should be allowed to continue with their careers - albeit, in some cases, with diminished stature and opportunities.

In the case of those no longer active in public life -- or even deceased -- some charges are serious enough to require a profound reassessment of their legacy, and some can be acknowledged as a blot without radically undermining an entire body of work.

To me, Franken's actions -- and even if, as I suspect, a few more women come forward with similar stories -- falls in the third category. He behaved badly and should be criticized. I think this should put a damper on any presidential ambitions he may have had, and, depending on if and how many more women come forward, should seriously reduce his chances of ascending to other positions of power (cabinet position, majority/minority leader, etc). He should be formally censured. But if nothing worse than this comes out, I don't think he needs to resign.

It isn't minimizing victim's experiences to acknowledge that some wrongs are more serious than other wrongs, and should be treated accordingly. Rape is worse than pleasuring oneself in front of a woman is worse than squeezing a woman's rear.

In addition, there's a difference in refusing to believe any woman (all of the accusers are lying! Its a conspiracy!) and not automatically choosing to believe every aspect of every victim's account. In this case, it is possible that neither Franken nor his accuser has an entirely accurate or unbiased memory of quite how far over the line Franken's behavior was while rehearsing the skit.