Senator Al Franken accused of unwanted kissing/groping

[scmom]

I don’t doubt this info but how does a man get forced into an erection?

I'm sure it's cerebral.

 

[kaen]

Since we are a little off topic, I am curious as to 17 million paid out for harassment in congress and who had their butt covered with a non-disclosure clause. I am sure it isn't just Franken who has a problem here. .

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

I don’t doubt this info but how does a man get forced into an erection?

Because it is not uncommon for victims of sexual assault and rape to experience arousal and even orgasm.

https://www.popsci.com/science/article/2013-05/science-arousal-during-rape

https://www.thenation.com/article/how-body-reacts-sexual-assault/

https://www.livingwell.org.au/managing-difficulties/sexual-assault-and-arousal/

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[kaen]

I think it is important to recognize that in the articles above two of the three focused on male arousal in connection with sexual abuse. Sexual abuse is often designed by the abuser to be non-violent through a series of grooming mechanisms. In fact, the violent vision that many have of an abusive situation usually occurs after the abuse has happened over time and the perpetrator fears losing control. While the professionals in the articles question the validity of the lower numbers of people who experienced orgasm or arousal, the studies aren't there to really say. Online forums are filled with people who through the virtue of anonymity can participate in the fantasy and not necessarily have experienced reality of abuse.

 

[katydid23]

FWIW- AF had a military minder/escort for the entire time now being discussed. That person has come forward to say that he was always with AF, even in the bathroom, that it was his job to prevent/ report any inappropriate behavior by AF, and that he never witnessed AF acting inappropriately in any way.

That's kind of funny considering AF put his hands over the breasts of a sleeping woman, smirked, then had a picture taken of it. Where was the minder/escort then?

If the escort was gone, because they were on the flight home, that is very revealing. Why would they have someone following him at every moment---'to prevent inappropriate behavior' ----and then within minutes of the escort leaving, Franken is acting out in vulgar ways?

 

[katydid23]

Because it is not uncommon for victims of sexual assault and rape to experience arousal and even orgasm.

https://www.popsci.com/science/article/2013-05/science-arousal-during-rape

https://www.thenation.com/article/how-body-reacts-sexual-assault/

https://www.livingwell.org.au/managing-difficulties/sexual-assault-and-arousal/

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That's one of the reasons it is so confusing and devastating, long term, for children who are groomed by pedophiles. My uncle treated me like his little girlfriend, from age 5 to age 8. . What he did to me sexually 'felt good' and I knew it was 'bad' so I felt so ashamed and confused. He told me it was my fault and I wanted it. That kind of overwhelming shame hindered me for many years.

 

[kaen]

That's one of the reasons it is so confusing and devastating, long term, for children who are groomed by pedophiles. My uncle treated me like his little girlfriend, from age 5 to age 8. . What he did to me sexually 'felt good' and I knew it was 'bad' so I felt so ashamed and confused. He told me it was my fault and I wanted it. That kind of overwhelming shame hindered me for many years.

Thank you for your personal post. I am so sorry that this happened to you. I know you probably know this but it was not your fault that you were groomed.

One of my concerns in reading some of the links is that people who want to normalize being attracted to teens (ephebophiles) can often claim that the sexual pleasure or continued engagement of the young person (male or female) is b/c they wanted it. When in truth for many or most,they acquiesced from the same position that you stated-- they were groomed in all aspects and were confused/ashamed at how these experiences felt. Milo Yiannopoulos caused his stir when he heralded his experiences and it took a national excoriating to get him to recognize the issues within his own experiences. Roy Moore has the same issues in my opinion. This is a reason the age of consent should be greater than 17, IMO. I am not saying that the articles point to this but we know that people can pervert information to suit their desires.

Again, I appreciate you sharing your story.

 

[human]

Thank you for your personal post. I am so sorry that this happened to you. I know you probably know this but it was not your fault that you were groomed.

One of my concerns in reading some of the links is that people who want to normalize being attracted to teens (ephebophiles) can often claim that the sexual pleasure or continued engagement of the young person (male or female) is b/c they wanted it. When in truth for many or most,they acquiesced from the same position that you stated-- they were groomed in all aspects and were confused/ashamed at how these experiences felt. Milo Yiannopoulos caused his stir when he heralded his experiences and it took a national excoriating to get him to recognize the issues within his own experiences. Roy Moore has the same issues in my opinion. This is a reason the age of consent should be greater than 17, IMO. I am not saying that the articles point to this but we know that people can pervert information to suit their desires.

Again, I appreciate you sharing your story.

People supporting Roy Moore certainly think teen love is fine with an older man.

What about a man ogling naked teens at a beauty pageant? Is that ok?

 

[simba16]

¡

People supporting Roy Moore certainly think teen love is fine with an older man.

What about a man ogling naked teens at a beauty pageant? Is that ok?

It is exploitive.

 

[K_Z]

I’m going to weigh in on this with what is likely to be a very unpopular position.

First, I’m not a huge fan of Al Franken, but I have defended his hard work as a senator numerous times. He actually shows up, he VOTES, he participates, he WORKS HARD—which is more than I can say for a lot of politicians who spend far more time promoting and congratulating themselves than actually DOING the job they were ELECTED to do.

That said, at the time of AF’s “egregious” behavior during the USO tour, AF was NOT an elected Senator, or an elected official of any kind. He was a bawdy, rude, sarcastic, raw COMEDIAN. An ENTERTAINER. So we have to put his ROLE in perspective.

And who is Leann Tweeden? She built her entire career, from the age of 16, on being a model. And not just “any” model, but a model who promoted herself on her SEXUALITY and NUDITY, and her breasts, for pay, which is, IMO, just a hollow excuse above prostitution. She worked as a waitress for Hooters, then modelled for Hooters, then modeled for racy nude and semi nude publications and catalogs full time, including Fredericks of Hollywood, Playboy, Maxim, Venus Swimwear, and Sports Illustrated. This is WHY she was invited on the USO Tour—because she was a sexy, beautiful woman who enjoyed posing nude often, for MONEY, and was admired and lusted after by men for that (yes, including military men). USO Tours are primarily about entertainment and temporary escapism for the deployed troops—the vast majority of whom are heterosexual, very virile MEN.

The tone and atmosphere “may” be changing (slowly) within the military and USO tours, but historically, the tours ALWAYS included a lot of soft sexy innuendos and heterosexual jokes and play to ENTERTAIN. In this USO Tour environment, they were BOTH EQUALS—there was no coercion or power inequality, IMO. He focused on her sexuality on and off stage, which is what she was “selling”, and now we’re supposed to condemn him for that?? Seriously?? That’s not shaming. She did, in fact, sell herself and her persona and reputation as a nude, sexual plaything—and years later she’s all “upset” that he took her up on that?! Who can seriously argue he was wrong to do that with a straight face??

So OF COURSE Al Franken would write and participate in sexual comedy skits. That’s part of why HE was on those tours TOO. He played the “ugly man” who “gets” the pretty, sexy girl. A theme that is thousands of years old, and plays to the secret longings and sexual frustrations of many men. And OF COURSE Leeann Tweeden would be the sex object in those skits and jokes—that was HER role as an entertainer, and ESPECIALLY in that environment—and SHE KNEW IT AND ENTHUSIASTICALLY AGREED TO THAT ROLE. So it rings very hollow to me that she was “shocked” and “violated” when he snapped a pic of him groping her while she slept, or urged her to practice the skit, or tried to cram his tongue down her throat. They were EACH playing the ROLES they AGREED to play—then years later she now says she was all upset about it, and is trying to bring down his political career. Give me a break!

Al Franken, though I don’t agree with much of his politics and opinions, should not step down over this. Leeann Tweeden should shut up about her fake outrage that she was considered a very willing sex symbol. And much of America needs to clearly understand the difference between sexual predators who exploit unequal power relationships, and stop confusing them with those that engage in consensual flirtations, “hookups” and sex play.

Tweeden is no victim, IMO.

And Franken will face voters in 2020 again. And a Senate ethics investigation will take an average of 3 years, which Franken well knows.

Rebecca Otto and Erin Murphy are both running for Governor-- they each have a vested political interest in calling for Franken to step down.

https://patch.com/minnesota/southwestminneapolis/leeann-tweeden-5-things-know

 

[K_Z]

Roy Moore is another story entirely. He was openly, and actively looking for a **teenage bride**. That was (and still is) very common among many fundamentalist religious adherents. That is VASTLY different than being a pedophile.

It's also heavily supported and approved of by many fundamentalist religious communities, even today. He was doing what he was taught to do, by his community and religious upbringing.

 

[human]

Roy Moore is another story entirely. He was openly, and actively looking for a **teenage bride**. That was (and still is) very common among many fundamentalist religious adherents. That is VASTLY different than being a pedophile.

It's also heavily supported and approved of by many fundamentalist religious communities, even today. He was doing what he was taught to do, by his community and religious upbringing.

what????

There are families of generational pedophiles that are grooming children year after year. It is acceptable in their family. I guess it is ok then.

SMH

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

I’m going to weigh in on this with what is likely to be a very unpopular position.

First, I’m not a huge fan of Al Franken, but I have defended his hard work as a senator numerous times. He actually shows up, he VOTES, he participates, he WORKS HARD—which is more than I can say for a lot of politicians who spend far more time promoting and congratulating themselves than actually DOING the job they were ELECTED to do.

That said, at the time of AF’s “egregious” behavior during the USO tour, AF was NOT an elected Senator, or an elected official of any kind. He was a bawdy, rude, sarcastic, raw COMEDIAN. An ENTERTAINER. So we have to put his ROLE in perspective.

And who is Leann Tweeden? She built her entire career, from the age of 16, on being a model. And not just “any” model, but a model who promoted herself on her SEXUALITY and NUDITY, and her breasts, for pay, which is, IMO, just a hollow excuse above prostitution. She worked as a waitress for Hooters, then modelled for Hooters, then modeled for racy nude and semi nude publications and catalogs full time, including Fredericks of Hollywood, Playboy, Maxim, Venus Swimwear, and Sports Illustrated. This is WHY she was invited on the USO Tour—because she was a sexy, beautiful woman who enjoyed posing nude often, for MONEY, and was admired and lusted after by men for that (yes, including military men). USO Tours are primarily about entertainment and temporary escapism for the deployed troops—the vast majority of whom are heterosexual, very virile MEN.

The tone and atmosphere “may” be changing (slowly) within the military and USO tours, but historically, the tours ALWAYS included a lot of soft sexy innuendos and heterosexual jokes and play to ENTERTAIN. In this USO Tour environment, they were BOTH EQUALS—there was no coercion or power inequality, IMO. He focused on her sexuality on and off stage, which is what she was “selling”, and now we’re supposed to condemn him for that?? Seriously?? That’s not shaming. She did, in fact, sell herself and her persona and reputation as a nude, sexual plaything—and years later she’s all “upset” that he took her up on that?! Who can seriously argue he was wrong to do that with a straight face??

So OF COURSE Al Franken would write and participate in sexual comedy skits. That’s part of why HE was on those tours TOO. He played the “ugly man” who “gets” the pretty, sexy girl. A theme that is thousands of years old, and plays to the secret longings and sexual frustrations of many men. And OF COURSE Leeann Tweeden would be the sex object in those skits and jokes—that was HER role as an entertainer, and ESPECIALLY in that environment—and SHE KNEW IT AND ENTHUSIASTICALLY AGREED TO THAT ROLE. So it rings very hollow to me that she was “shocked” and “violated” when he snapped a pic of him groping her while she slept, or urged her to practice the skit, or tried to cram his tongue down her throat. They were EACH playing the ROLES they AGREED to play—then years later she now says she was all upset about it, and is trying to bring down his political career. Give me a break!

Al Franken, though I don’t agree with much of his politics and opinions, should not step down over this. Leeann Tweeden should shut up about her fake outrage that she was considered a very willing sex symbol. And much of America needs to clearly understand the difference between sexual predators who exploit unequal power relationships, and stop confusing them with those that engage in consensual flirtations, “hookups” and sex play.

Tweeden is no victim, IMO.

And Franken will face voters in 2020 again. And a Senate ethics investigation will take an average of 3 years, which Franken well knows.

Rebecca Otto and Erin Murphy are both running for Governor-- they each have a vested political interest in calling for Franken to step down.

https://patch.com/minnesota/southwestminneapolis/leeann-tweeden-5-things-know

Hmmmm.... a bit OT, but a question... is it possible for a prostitute to be sexually assaulted and/or raped?

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[bluesneakers]

Hmmmm.... a bit OT, but a question... is it possible for a prostitute to be sexually assaulted and/or raped?

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Is it possible? Of course it is. Why wouldn't it be? I think sex workers are in a high risk category for assault and rape.

eta: 17 Facts About Sexual Violence and Sex Work
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/katherine-koster/16-facts-about-sexual-ass_b_8711720.html

1.) Sex workers experience high levels of sexual violence. Globally, sex workers have a 45 to 75% chance of experiencing sexual violence at some point in their careers and a 32 to 55% chance of experiencing sexual violence in a given year.

 

[bluesneakers]

Roy Moore is another story entirely. He was openly, and actively looking for a **teenage bride**. That was (and still is) very common among many fundamentalist religious adherents. That is VASTLY different than being a pedophile.

It's also heavily supported and approved of by many fundamentalist religious communities, even today. He was doing what he was taught to do, by his community and religious upbringing.

It's the same thing. Why would they want these brides if they weren't attracted to underage women? They hide behind a religion that makes their desires acceptable.

 

[jjenny]

Hmmmm.... a bit OT, but a question... is it possible for a prostitute to be sexually assaulted and/or raped?

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Anything is possible. But K_Z isn't saying the woman was a prostitute, so what is your point?

 

[PaulR]

Anything is possible. But K_Z isn't saying the woman was a prostitute, so what is your point?

No, KZ said she was a model who had done nude shots. I'm not sure if that's supposed to imply that she was somehow "asking for it."

 

[jjenny]

Roy Moore is another story entirely. He was openly, and actively looking for a **teenage bride**. That was (and still is) very common among many fundamentalist religious adherents. That is VASTLY different than being a pedophile.

It's also heavily supported and approved of by many fundamentalist religious communities, even today. He was doing what he was taught to do, by his community and religious upbringing.

That might be well and good, but if that teenager bride candidate is under an age of consent, sexual behavior with her would be illegal.

 

[simba16]

No, KZ said she was a model who had done nude shots. I'm not sure if that's supposed to imply that she was somehow "asking for it."

Exactly. That is the same as blaming a rape victim because she wore short skirts.

 

[jjenny]

The woman and Franken were supposed to entertain the troops with a skit. Kiss was a part of the skit. At that time Franken wasn't a politician. He was comedian, playing a role to entertain the troops.