Senator Al Franken accused of unwanted kissing/groping

[K_Z]

A waitress at Hooters would be no more responsible for her rape than waitress at Cracker Barrel. Totally the rapist's responsibility.

True, but Hooters is selling sexuality, beautiful, young waitresses, and beautiful breasts in tight shirts, with lots of flirtation, with their hamburgers.

Cracker Barrel is selling penny candy and classic toys with their fried apples.

Not many people go to Cracker Barrel to ogle the breasts of the waitresses (but some go to ogle the chicken breasts, I suppose!)

 

[MyBelle]

Roy Moore is another story entirely. He was openly, and actively looking for a **teenage bride**. That was (and still is) very common among many fundamentalist religious adherents. That is VASTLY different than being a pedophile.

It's also heavily supported and approved of by many fundamentalist religious communities, even today. He was doing what he was taught to do, by his community and religious upbringing.

Warren Jeffs taught his flock it was okay to marry and deflock teens without their consent and he's spending the rest of his life in prison. The legal age of consent in Alabama is 16. Moore is accused of groping a 14-year-old. The law does intervene when religious "upbringings" imperil the safety of children.

 

[CoolJ]

If you look at videos on youtube of USO shows, they are filled with all kinds of sexual talk and references to sex acts.

We are looking at that photo today and are outraged. That is good . We are moving ahead as a society.

I have read on the infallible internet that the photo was staged and she was not sleeping. It would be something people considered funny back then. USO shows were considered funny.

If she was part of the pnoto joke, then it is an entirely different matter than if she was in fact sleeping and it was taken while she was unaware.

All I can say is to watch some USO videos and it can be seen what was considered to be humorous. Things we do not find amusing today.

If it was some prank she was part of I am quite sure Franken would have said so.

 

[K_Z]

A woman who poses for a nude photo doesn't make sex the focus of their reputation, persona but you do. YOU make that person a sex object.

This can't be a serious comment?! Maybe if the nude photo is in a medical text illustrating a serious, rare, or painful medical condition, I could agree with you. If the nude pic is in Playboy or Fredricks of Hollywood, it's not about the articles or the clothes. It's about SEX. Yes, it is! Lol!

 

[jjenny]

It does not matter where one works, what one wears or how one chooses to live their life. A job is a job and where a person chooses to work is more complicated than a moral judgment might assume.

In her case, she agreed to a job which was a skit that involved kissing Franken. She says she didn't want to do it, so apparently the kiss was modified where she would turn her head. But presumably she knew what the job entailed before she signed up for it.

 

[PaulR]

If you look at videos on youtube of USO shows, they are filled with all kinds of sexual talk and references to sex acts.

We are looking at that photo today and are outraged. That is good . We are moving ahead as a society.

I have read on the infallible internet that the photo was staged and she was not sleeping. It would be something people considered funny back then. USO shows were considered funny.

If she was part of the pnoto joke, then it is an entirely different matter than if she was in fact sleeping and it was taken while she was unaware.

All I can say is to watch some USO videos and it can be seen what was considered to be humorous. Things we do not find amusing today.

Think of the USO video as like a movie. There are actors, they have roles, it's a performance, that's all it is.

The accuser is not saying anything about what Franken did while they were on stage performing. She is making statements about what he did behind closed doors. What Franken did was not part of a skit.

Put it this way: you are in a play, doing Romeo and Juliet or something, and at one point you have to kiss the other actor. It's OK to kiss the actor in that specific scene because it is part of the play. That does not mean it is OK to kiss them at any other time. There's no consent.

Similarly if they were practicing a kiss (which I'm assuming for these types of things would be a kiss on the lips but no more) and the other person tries giving them tongue, there's no consent for that either.

I think she was exceptionally polite for just telling him off.

 

[jjenny]

Actors do practice their roles, no? In this case, kiss was a part of the skit (was there before her playing this role). Why exactly do you think it wouldn't be reasonable to practice it?

 

[human]

Many females who are prostitutes have been the victims of abuse, whether physical or sexual or even verbal.

I do have to admit that I am comfused about women who pose nude or dress in outfits such as Hooters. What is the point of it?

Being a nude model for art is one thing. But being a nude model for porn where you know guys will be jacking off is another thing,

As a woman, I do not want men to look at me or my daughters or grandaughters as objects,

As a teen and a college girl, I had a very excellent figure. I got a lot of attention that I did not want . I did not want some guy to use me for his gratification. I did not think that was a compliment whatsoever. I was only interested in relationships where I was seen as an equal.

Men have to be raiseda whole different way. And women have to be raised to see their worth as an intelligent being, not just body parts

 

[K_Z]

Warren Jeffs taught his flock it was okay to marry and deflock teens without their consent and he's spending the rest of his life in prison. The legal age of consent in Alabama is 16. Moore is accused of groping a 14-year-old. The law does intervene when religious "upbringings" imperil the safety of children.

I'm not saying Roy Moore was "right". I'm saying you have to evaluate the CONTEXT of what he was doing, and WHY he was doing it. He is wrongly labelled a pedophile or predator, IMO. His motivations were to seek a bride within the context of his fundamentalist religion. That doesn't make it "right". It's simply an explanation for the behavior, and a far more reasonable explanation than labelling him a pedophile or a predator. He married 3 years later, and hasn't repeated that teen date seeking behavior that we know of.

Times have changed. We have to be careful with how we look thru our 2017 lens at things that happened in the past.

Again, if he had done this last week, I'd feel differently. Anthony Weiner comes to mind as a compare and contrast case for Roy Moore.

 

[HoneyWest]

A woman's clothing or job or drinking habits give nobody one iota of permission to sexually harass or rape. Men need to control themselves no matter what the women are wearing! It's easy, don't harass! Don't rape!

I very much resent the idea that a mother would prefer to teach her daughter to only do certain jobs or only wear certain clothing to avoid rape over teaching her son not to rape. My son has been taught not to harass or rape. My son knows not to cat call women, don't tell women on the street to "smile". Have you taught yours?

 

[simba16]

This can't be a serious comment?! Maybe if the nude photo is in a medical text illustrating a serious, rare, or painful medical condition, I could agree with you. If the nude pic is in Playboy or Fredricks of Hollywood, it's not about the articles or the clothes. It's about SEX. Yes, it is! Lol!

She has a nude photo taken. That doesn't define her persona--you do. It's YOUR problem.

 

[PaulR]

Actors do practice their roles, no? In this case, kiss was a part of the skit (was there before her playing this role). Why exactly do you think it wouldn't be reasonable to practice it?

Was tongue part of the skit? I've never acted, but I would assume "kiss this person" would mean something like "lips together, no this isn't a real kiss." That's certainly the way it's appeared in the plays I've seen.

 

[human]

Think of the USO video as like a movie. There are actors, they have roles, it's a performance, that's all it is.

The accuser is not saying anything about what Franken did while they were on stage performing. She is making statements about what he did behind closed doors. What Franken did was not part of a skit.

Put it this way: you are in a play, doing Romeo and Juliet or something, and at one point you have to kiss the other actor. It's OK to kiss the actor in that specific scene because it is part of the play. That does not mean it is OK to kiss them at any other time. There's no consent.

Similarly if they were practicing a kiss (which I'm assuming for these types of things would be a kiss on the lips but no more) and the other person tries giving them tongue, there's no consent for that either.

I think she was exceptionally polite for just telling him off.

I don’t doubt the kiss issue. I am talking only about the photo.

I had a man kiss me about three years ago. An on again and off again friend of my hubby. I live in a culture where people get up close when greeting. But they do not kiss you on the lips.

It took me about three years to not wretch when I saw him. I always stood far away so he could not come up and touch me with a traditional greeting. I get her kiss issues.

It is the picture that is in question to me

 

[jjenny]

Was tongue part of the skit? I've never acted, but I would assume "kiss this person" would mean something like "lips together, no this isn't a real kiss." That's certainly the way it's appeared in the plays I've seen.

You've never seen a kiss in a movie where it is obvious tongue is a part of the action?

 

[simba16]

I'm not saying Roy Moore was "right". I'm saying you have to evaluate the CONTEXT of what he was doing, and WHY he was doing it. He is wrongly labelled a pedophile or predator, IMO. His motivations were to seek a bride within the context of his fundamentalist religion. That doesn't make it "right". It's simply an explanation for the behavior, and a far more reasonable explanation than labelling him a pedophile or a predator. He married 3 years later, and hasn't repeated that teen date seeking behavior that we know of.

Times have changed. We have to be careful with how we look thru our 2017 lens at things that happened in the past.

Again, if he had done this last week, I'd feel differently. Anthony Weiner comes to mind as a compare and contrast case for Roy Moore.

He was a predator of young girls. I think you are trying to minimize his behavior by saying he was just seeking a bride. He tried to rape 2 young girls.

 

[MyBelle]

Some are calling for Franken to resign; that's what I meant as punishment.

The leaders of Franken's own Minnesota party is calling for his resignation. He has a history of crude, sexist behavior and always uses comedy as his excuse. Women are tired of this behavior and it is time he hold himself accountable.

The USO wants entertainers to entertain. It is why Tweeden and he were there. Franken decided to humiliate and demean a woman in order to entertain himself. Troops include women, who should be treated as equals and afforded respect. He shoved his tongue into a woman's mouth without her permission. His action had nothing to do with comedy. The audience wouldn't know it. No coworker has a right to penetrate a colleague with his tongue.

I'm shocked anyone is excusing his creepy behavior because his victim was a nude model. I

 

[HoneyWest]

True, but Hooters is selling sexuality, beautiful, young waitresses, and beautiful breasts in tight shirts, with lots of flirtation, with their hamburgers.

Cracker Barrel is selling penny candy and classic toys with their fried apples.

Not many people go to Cracker Barrel to ogle the breasts of the waitresses (but some go to ogle the chicken breasts, I suppose!)

Before Buffalo Wild Wings came along, I went to Hooters for wings and beer. They have good wings. Stop shaming the waitresses there. Better yet, stop shaming victims of harassment.

 

[MyBelle]

You've never seen a kiss in a movie where it is obvious tongue is a part of the action?

A movie involves paid actors. The USO gigs are volunteer.

 

[jjenny]

A movie involves paid actors. The USO gigs are volunteer.

So everything would be just fine if they were getting paid? That's the main issue here?

 

[bluesneakers]

He was a predator of young girls. I think you are trying to minimize his behavior by saying he was just seeking a bride. He tried to rape 2 young girls.

Whatever his reason is it doesn't justify his actions.