Senator Al Franken accused of unwanted kissing/groping

[human]

Moral high ground? He denied some of the allegations and stated he didn't remember the others the same way. Instead of apologizing for HIS behavior in his speech, he deflected to the behavior of others. This wasn't about anyone else---it was about HIM.

So is everyone going to ask for other sex offenders in the governing bodies to step down? Is Al at the head of the line? Why not?

 

[kaen]

Going to have to disagree. Even if I loathe the person, there must always be due process.

I would have to disagree with you because it is impossible to have a fair and impartial hearing of the issues with our politicians. Every single issue is party over fair hearing on all sides. If the ethics committee was truly an ethics committee and not partisan led then we could get a true pulse on the behavior of these people and the transgressions they are accused of. But, no, it is always covering for your party member or going after the person in the other party. Even here, people come on from their political perspective and are willing to hang X and let Y go for their bad behavior.

I liked Franken. But, I said from the get go he had to go b/c his behavior was awful. I was head of an institution where I had been employed for years and asked to become the leader. About one month into my service, we had an issue where an incredibly popular employee made a massive mistake which was such a clear violation that we had to fire her. Two of my leadership team kept coming up with all of the reasons that we didn't have to. I held my ground. We fired her. MY employees were off the charts angry. Well, guess what happened? A couple of months later a less popular employee made an equally bad mistake that was so clear that we had to fire her as well. No one on my leadership team had a moment of hesitation this time. We fired her.

We would have been hypocritical to not fire the first and then fire the second. We would have put the company in jeopardy if we didn't fire either of them-----based on letting the first woman get away with it. I see the position of the parties and people justifying their political positions as the same. We don't need to get into the weeds. Bad behavior is bad behavior.

At some point, it is not about tit-for-tat but what is right and good for our nation. Our government, elected officials should have no room for abusive, illegal behavior. We should stop pay-outs for harassment and illegal or immoral behavior. The congress should open every case they settled and show us the facts----not the names of the victims but the names of the perpetrators.

It is impossible to get due process for the behaviors that have a statute of limitations in civil court. It is impossible to take a pedophile and criminally prosecute him/her with a statute of limitations. So, these pigs and abusers get a free pass under the name of due process? I think that is reprehensible. On another thread we have a VI in the Roy Moore case, I believe that the whole due process argument justifies that accountability is not possible unless there is a video or photo-- and maybe not even then.

 

[Jennifer17]

I would have to disagree with you because it is impossible to have a fair and impartial hearing of the issues with our politicians. Every single issue is party over fair hearing on all sides. If the ethics committee was truly an ethics committee and not partisan led then we could get a true pulse on the behavior of these people and the transgressions they are accused of. But, no, it is always covering for your party member or going after the person in the other party. Even here, people come on from their political perspective and are willing to hang X and let Y go for their bad behavior.

I liked Franken. But, I said from the get go he had to go b/c his behavior was awful. I was head of an institution where I had been employed for years and asked to become the leader. About one month into my service, we had an issue where an incredibly popular employee made a massive mistake which was such a clear violation that we had to fire her. Two of my leadership team kept coming up with all of the reasons that we didn't have to. I held my ground. We fired her. MY employees were off the charts angry. Well, guess what happened? A couple of months later a less popular employee made an equally bad mistake that was so clear that we had to fire her as well. No one on my leadership team had a moment of hesitation this time. We fired her.

We would have been hypocritical to not fire the first and then fire the second. We would have put the company in jeopardy if we didn't fire either of them-----based on letting the first woman get away with it. I see the position of the parties and people justifying their political positions as the same. We don't need to get into the weeds. Bad behavior is bad behavior.

At some point, it is not about tit-for-tat but what is right and good for our nation. Our government, elected officials should have no room for abusive, illegal behavior. We should stop pay-outs for harassment and illegal or immoral behavior. The congress should open every case they settled and show us the facts----not the names of the victims but the names of the perpetrators.

It is impossible to get due process for the behaviors that have a statute of limitations in civil court. It is impossible to take a pedophile and criminally prosecute him/her with a statute of limitations. So, these pigs and abusers get a free pass under the name of due process? I think that is reprehensible. On another thread we have a VI in the Roy Moore case, I believe that the whole due process argument justifies that accountability is not possible unless there is a video or photo-- and maybe not even then.

BBM. Is there a statute of limitations on sexual abuse of children, in the US?

 

[Rocco]

So is everyone going to ask for other sex offenders in the governing bodies to step down? Is Al at the head of the line? Why not?

He isn't the first one to step down because of a sex scandal and he won't be the last.

 

[Jax49]

Female lieutenant governor expected to replace Franken
https://www.politico.com/story/2017/12/06/al-franken-senate-smith-211125

Minnesota Gov. Mark Dayton is expected to appoint his lieutenant governor and close ally, Tina Smith, to Al Franken’s seat, three people familiar with the Democratic governor’s thinking said.


But that appointment would be just the start of an upheaval in Minnesota. Part of the reason Smith could be heading to the Senate, the sources said, is that she has indicated no interest in running for Congress in the past and would not run for the remainder of Franken’s term, which expires in 2020, in a 2018 special election. That would clear the way for a wide open Democratic primary next year.

 

[kaen]

BBM. Is there a statute of limitations on sexual abuse of children, in the US?

Back in the day of most of these old abusers, yes.

 

[TeaTime]

I can't stand Al Franken, never could. He always gave me the creeps, but accusations can be made by anyone about anything and without proof are just that - accusations. Yes, there is a photo but he wasn't actually touching her and it is obvious in the photo. Stupid? Yes! Did he owe her an apology 10-11 years ago when he did it? Yep. Should he have to resign over accusations? No. But, the accusations will make it impossible for him to be taken seriously and he can't take the heat until the voters decide in the next election and neither can the democratic party. The people deserve a Senator that can be effective, not shunned as a perv, so, he has to go.

The revelation that Congress has a 'shush' fund to pay off victims of sexual assault by members of congress makes me sick for more than one reason.

What ever happened to slapping the guy who grabs your butt or whatever? What ever happened to making a scene over it and letting everyone know what he did - right then and there?

Why wait years and decades to come forward? I don't get it. Women are supposed to be powerful and then we see them acting powerless. Don't tell me they were afraid they would lose their jobs because a job is not worth one's integrity.

We are either strong or we aren't. We either have integrity or we don't. We either stand for what is right or we accept what is wrong. And, we don't wait until a convenient time to divulge. Nip it in the bud and get another job if necessary. Silence is acquiescence and perpetuates the behavior.

JMHO

 

[Jennifer17]

I can't stand Al Franken, never could. He always gave me the creeps, but accusations can be made by anyone about anything and without proof are just that - accusations. Yes, there is a photo but he wasn't actually touching her and it is obvious in the photo. Stupid? Yes! Did he owe her an apology 10-11 years ago when he did it? Yep. Should he have to resign over accusations? No. But, the accusations will make it impossible for him to be taken seriously and he can't take the heat until the voters decide in the next election and neither can the democratic party. The people deserve a Senator that can be effective, not shunned as a perv, so, he has to go.

The revelation that Congress has a 'shush' fund to pay off victims of sexual assault by members of congress makes me sick for more than one reason.

What ever happened to slapping the guy who grabs your butt or whatever? What ever happened to making a scene over it and letting everyone know what he did - right then and there?

Why wait years and decades to come forward? I don't get it. Women are supposed to be powerful and then we see them acting powerless. Don't tell me they were afraid they would lose their jobs because a job is not worth one's integrity.

We are either strong or we aren't. We either have integrity or we don't. We either stand for what is right or we accept what is wrong. And, we don't wait until a convenient time to divulge. Nip it in the bud and get another job if necessary. Silence is acquiescence and perpetuates the behavior.

JMHO

Just get another job? A easy as that? No, don't make men behave themselves, just get another job. Give up all the progress you have made in that job, and start at the bottom of the ladder again.

 

[K_Z]

Female lieutenant governor expected to replace Franken
https://www.politico.com/story/2017/12/06/al-franken-senate-smith-211125

That's Politico "wishful thinking". I highly doubt Tina Smith will be named to fill Franken's seat, even just till 2018. And here's why.

If Gov Dayton (D) appoints Tina Smith to AF's senate seat, a *very* interesting thing will happen.

The president of the MN State Senate will *automatically* become Lt Governor.

And that person happens to be a Republican-- State Senator Michelle Fischbach. That would be a VERY difficult and risky situation, on a number of levels, both political and personal. Given Dayton's current cancer diagnosis and treatment, I'm doubting Democratic Governor Dayton will let a R legislator become Lt Gov, because if something health wise happened to Dayton before he leaves office, that would flip the governorship from D to R. Wow.

Most of the speculation surrounds Lt. Gov. Tina Smith who is Dayton's former chief-of-staff and trusted adviser. Smith has a background in business, politics and nonprofits such as Planned Parenthood.

The only wrinkle with appointing Smith is that the order of succession calls for the president of the Minnesota Senate to fill the post of Lieutenant Governor if it becomes vacant. That position is currently held by Sen. Michelle Fischbach, a Paynesville Republican.

"It's not clear to me Governor Dayton would encourage that partnership," Schier remarked. "And the governor also needs to think about his own health."

If Dayton would have to vacate the office before his term ends in January of 2019, and Fischbach were the Lt. Governor, the state would have a Republican chief executive.

http://www.kare11.com/article/news/daytons-decision-possible-picks-for-temporary-senator/497510061

 

[K_Z]

What happens to bills Al Franken was sponsoring?

http://www.kare11.com/article/news/franken-resigns-what-happens-to-bills/89-497789313

 

[Jennifer17]

What happens to bills Al Franken was sponsoring?

http://www.kare11.com/article/news/franken-resigns-what-happens-to-bills/89-497789313

What indeed. What happens to EO's from other sexual abusers? Nothing much.

 

[K_Z]

Sen. Amy Klobuchar is up for re-election next year. So if Franken resigns, both seats will be on the ballot at the same time.That's rare, but it happened in Minnesota in 1978 after Hubert Humphrey died. And that year, Republicans captured both seats.

http://www.kare11.com/article/news/franken-to-speak-from-senate-floor-at-1045-am/89-497384309

Yup. Both MN senate seats will be on the 2018 ballot. We live in interesting times.

Former Governor Rick Pawlenty (2 terms) will almost certainly run now. He was very popular.

 

[Jennifer17]

Back in the day of most of these old abusers, yes.

xu

But now, is there a statute of limitations on a six year old who was sexually abused, but told no one? Does she have no resources to bring charges when she is old enough to realise what happened to her was very, very wrong. Or is it just 'sorry pet, you missed your chance'?

 

[human]

http://www.kare11.com/article/news/franken-to-speak-from-senate-floor-at-1045-am/89-497384309

Yup. Both MN senate seats will be on the 2018 ballot. We live in interesting times.

Former Governor Rick Pawlenty (2 terms) will almost certainly run now. He was very popular.

Rick Pawlenty? Is that a secret twin brother of Tim? Could be as Tim was not popular. He got elected because the vote was split between two other good candidates.

 

[human]

xu

But now, is there a statute of limitations on a six year old who was sexually abused, but told no one? Does she have no resources to bring charges when she is old enough to realise what happened to her was very, very wrong. Or is it just 'sorry pet, you missed your chance'?

Laws are different in each state. MN has changed their law to some kind of time period from when you first relaized it happened.

 

[nothingnew]

What happens to bills Al Franken was sponsoring?

http://www.kare11.com/article/news/franken-resigns-what-happens-to-bills/89-497789313

IMO it will be business as usual. Franken has not resigned, he has just said he WILL resign, sometime, in the future. That's like the difference of shooting yourself in the foot and "saying" you are going to shoot yourself in the foot. I will believe it once he officially steps down.

 

[Rocco]

Rick Pawlenty? Is that a secret twin brother of Tim? Could be as Tim was not popular. He got elected because the vote was split between two other good candidates.

Anyone familiar with Minnesota knows she meant to say Tim, not Rick. And yes, he was popular. That's why he won the gubernatorial race TWICE.

 

[TeaTime]

Just get another job? A easy as that? No, don't make men behave themselves, just get another job. Give up all the progress you have made in that job, and start at the bottom of the ladder again.

You don't start 'at the bottom' again with the experience obtained. Yes, it is as easy as that. You are either worthy of that job or not and if you are, getting another is easy. You make it known what happened and then you leave and retain your dignity. Why would anyone put up with maltreatment of any kind at their job when there are tons of jobs out there? And, I will never understand remaining quiet about abuses just to keep a job.

I am sick of people claiming victim hood when they do nothing to protect themselves. "We are feminists and equal to men, but too scared to speak out" is just baloney.

 

[Jade]

Moral high ground? He denied some of the allegations and stated he didn't remember the others the same way. Instead of apologizing for HIS behavior in his speech, he deflected to the behavior of others. This wasn't about anyone else---it was about HIM.

If it was about him then he would have stayed in place.

Whether his speech was all one would want it to be is debatable.

It’s a tough position. He is not a perv like Roy Moore who is totally enjoying the support of a hypocritical fundamentalist base. This is a party decision as much as AF’s.

He said that an ethics committee investigation would take him away from his duties and distract from the business at hand.

So instead of being like other selfish politicians who gladly stay on the payroll and hog the position while they undergo lengthily investigations he is stepping aside which sounds like a good thing for Minnesota.

IMO

 

[TeaTime]

xu

But now, is there a statute of limitations on a six year old who was sexually abused, but told no one? Does she have no resources to bring charges when she is old enough to realise what happened to her was very, very wrong. Or is it just 'sorry pet, you missed your chance'?

I don't know the laws of every state, but in mine (and likely many others) the statute of limitations does not toll against the minor.