• #381
Also see Trent Franks (R) who resigned under similar circumstances to Franken. I don't think any party can claim the high ground here.

He's the only Congressman who's actually resigned. Franken says(?) he will in coming weeks and Conyers is just going to retire at the end of his term in January of 2019.
 
  • #382
  • #383
At first I was skeptical about Franken. The first accusation was rather flimsy. The photo came off to me as a joke. A joke in poor taste? Depends on how you look at it.

But now that more women have come forward...well then.

I didn't expect such a thing from him.
 
  • #384
  • #385
Maye this will be the beginning of other women like me speaking up and saying what they have been through? That would be a welcome voice.IMO

I've had a rather harrowing week and haven't spent much time here, but I've given this much thought. How much of the culture of women not coming forward with accusations of sexual assault begins in the home when incest or the behaviors of a "funny" uncle at a family reunion are swept under the rug?

Daughters who tell their mothers that Dad or a brother has been doing inappropriate things to them are often ignored or even admonished for saying such things. Same thing happens when a cousin or uncle makes unwanted advances towards female relatives at a family gathering. Family members of the alleged perpetrator are shocked or angered that such an accusation could be made about a husband, son, nephew, etc. The accuser is made to feel that she is lying, making things up, or was actually responsible for the unwanted encounter.

I think it's safe to say that many here have had these types of experiences, and I believe that it contributes to the embarrassment or fear that girls/women have if they "tell" on someone. Past experience in their own homes or at family events where they were ignored or admonished for saying something to Mom about unwanted sexual advances convinces them to keep quiet and not rock the boat. I've found myself in this situation a few times when I was growing up, and I feel certain that many of you have experienced the same thing. It's about time that girls/women can feel free to speak up about sexual assault and any type of unwanted sexual advances.
 
  • #386
I've had a rather harrowing week and haven't spent much time here, but I've given this much thought. How much of the culture of women not coming forward with accusations of sexual assault begins in the home when incest or the behaviors of a "funny" uncle at a family reunion are swept under the rug?

Daughters who tell their mothers that Dad or a brother has been doing inappropriate things to them are often ignored or even admonished for saying such things. Same thing happens when a cousin or uncle makes unwanted advances towards female relatives at a family gathering. Family members of the alleged perpetrator are shocked or angered that such an accusation could be made about a husband, son, nephew, etc. The accuser is made to feel that she is lying, making things up, or was actually responsible for the unwanted encounter.

I think it's safe to say that many here have had these types of experiences, and I believe that it contributes to the embarrassment or fear that girls/women have if they "tell" on someone. Past experience in their own homes or at family events where they were ignored or admonished for saying something to Mom about unwanted sexual advances convinces them to keep quiet and not rock the boat. I've found myself in this situation a few times when I was growing up, and I feel certain that many of you have experienced the same thing. It's about time that girls/women can feel free to speak up about sexual assault and any type of unwanted sexual advances.

Yes, all of this. These things don't happen in a vacuum.
 
  • #387
I've had a rather harrowing week and haven't spent much time here, but I've given this much thought. How much of the culture of women not coming forward with accusations of sexual assault begins in the home when incest or the behaviors of a "funny" uncle at a family reunion are swept under the rug?

Daughters who tell their mothers that Dad or a brother has been doing inappropriate things to them are often ignored or even admonished for saying such things. Same thing happens when a cousin or uncle makes unwanted advances towards female relatives at a family gathering. Family members of the alleged perpetrator are shocked or angered that such an accusation could be made about a husband, son, nephew, etc. The accuser is made to feel that she is lying, making things up, or was actually responsible for the unwanted encounter.

I think it's safe to say that many here have had these types of experiences, and I believe that it contributes to the embarrassment or fear that girls/women have if they "tell" on someone. Past experience in their own homes or at family events where they were ignored or admonished for saying something to Mom about unwanted sexual advances convinces them to keep quiet and not rock the boat. I've found myself in this situation a few times when I was growing up, and I feel certain that many of you have experienced the same thing. It's about time that girls/women can feel free to speak up about sexual assault and any type of unwanted sexual advances.

Not just daughters either.
 
  • #388
Not just daughters either.

You're right, of course. Sexual abuse, assault, and/or harassment can be perpetrated against males, too. I shared my personal experience that involved male perpetrators and female victims as is the case with the high profile sexual assaults being discussed on this forum.
 
  • #389
You're right, of course. Sexual abuse, assault, and/or harassment can be perpetrated against males, too. I shared my personal experience that involved male perpetrators and female victims as is the case with the high profile sexual assaults being discussed on this forum.

I know, but this fact seems to be forgotten sometimes. For instance, The View yesterday was attacking Moore for him going after young teenage girls, but the very same show attacked Corey Feldman when he came on the show to talk about how he and others were molested. That's the very definition of hypocrisy, getting outraged about young girls being the victims of a predator but getting upset about similar accusations when the victims are young boys because, as Barbara Walters put it, "you're destroying an entire industry."

I wonder how many young boys were molested because Walters decided to stand up for child molesters.
 
  • #390
If he’s leaving, he’s leaving. A couple of weeks puts it into january, (2018) he would receive more money, possibly benefits. Maybe thats why.

Maybe he doesn’t want to miss all the holiday parties, festivities.
 
  • #391
I've had a rather harrowing week and haven't spent much time here, but I've given this much thought. How much of the culture of women not coming forward with accusations of sexual assault begins in the home when incest or the behaviors of a "funny" uncle at a family reunion are swept under the rug?

Daughters who tell their mothers that Dad or a brother has been doing inappropriate things to them are often ignored or even admonished for saying such things. Same thing happens when a cousin or uncle makes unwanted advances towards female relatives at a family gathering. Family members of the alleged perpetrator are shocked or angered that such an accusation could be made about a husband, son, nephew, etc. The accuser is made to feel that she is lying, making things up, or was actually responsible for the unwanted encounter.

I think it's safe to say that many here have had these types of experiences, and I believe that it contributes to the embarrassment or fear that girls/women have if they "tell" on someone. Past experience in their own homes or at family events where they were ignored or admonished for saying something to Mom about unwanted sexual advances convinces them to keep quiet and not rock the boat. I've found myself in this situation a few times when I was growing up, and I feel certain that many of you have experienced the same thing. It's about time that girls/women can feel free to speak up about sexual assault and any type of unwanted sexual advances.

I agree with much of this. However, these circumstances are not the same as those under which Al Franken was "lynched". What you're describing, IMO, is more akin to the Josh Duggar sweep-it-under-the-rug circumstances. As I posted upthread, we have to come to a place where we as a society can evaluate the circumstances of EACH allegation of sexual impropriety, and decide what (if any) "punishments" will be meted out.

There are many different "kinds" of sexual impropriety/ assault/ rape, and we have to use our critical thinking to decipher just what exactly is going on.

For example, for all of the chest beating about child rape, and the 40 year old allegations against religious bride seeking Roy Moore, as a society we are perfectly content to watch from afar as religious cults like the FLDS birth children into their nightmare, with the express purpose of creating a hostage and ignorant population of little girls for the exaulted men to sexually use and prey on, all under the guise of "freedom of religion".

We are content, as a western society, to turn a blind eye to the forced genital mutiliations and child marriages of the immigrant muslims living among us, for the express purpose of annihilating a woman's sexuality, causing permanent pain, and truncating her life possibilities as "freedom of religion". Indeed, scores upon scores of women (and men) on our soil vociferously support the systematic abuse and subjugation of muslim girls and women on our soil as "freedom of religion", and insist that they are "persecuted" for their beliefs and actions.

Millions of little children have been abused sexually by trusted adults, clergy, relatives, teachers, caregivers. No one is denying that happens.

Many women HAVE been raped violently, or forced into sexual slavery or submission. No one is denying that happens.

Many women HAVE used/ exchanged/ traded their sexuality or sexual favors to advance their careers, or to increase their income-- many willingly, others coerced.

Some women HAVE completely fabricated stories of sexual impropriety or assault for the purpose of vengeance, or extorting favors or money.

What I'm saying, and what a lot of other people are saying, is that what Al Franken has been accused of is VASTLY different, and yes, VASTLY less damaging, vastly less serious, and vastly less PROVABLE than the first abusive scenarios above, and should not be lumped in together with those situations.

There can be NO DENIAL that SOME women (and men) HAVE used, exaggerated, or fabricated sexual accusations of dubious truth, with the purpose of vengeance against someone, personal, occupational, or political.

The situation with Al Franken, IMO, is precisely that kind of situation.

"IF" he is guilty of anything, he is guilty of boorish or vulgar, episodic pranks/ lewd jokes. No small suprise there, as he MADE HIS CAREER AS A BOORISH, LEWD COMEDIAN at the time the alleged behavior happened! A prank, or a joke, 10+ years ago, with a willing participant who made her career as a stripper, is definitely not the same thing as being a sexual predator. How do we know he stuck his tongue in her mouth?? How do we know she didn't encourage him or tongue him back? How do we know what kind of sexual-charged banter went between them on and off stage? We can't, because her own circumstances make her not a credible complainant.

Tweeden isn't objectively "right" just because now, ten years later, she claims she "felt" a certain way about what did, or didn't happen. He shouldn't lose his political seat over that, IMO. (And I'm no fan of AF's politics.) She didn't say a word for 10 years. TEN years. And not because she was "afraid" she wouldn't be believed, or was so "traumatized." She's a vindictive woman who knew how to report and manipulate that situation to weaponize it for political and personal gain. That's despicable.

Complaints which are definitely not prosecutable crimes, nor even realistically winnable civil matters, which have exactly no proof, presumably happened decades ago, and accusers of dubious credibility, have been used as a witch hunt by a media, political machinery, and civil population to lynch AF for political means. Just exactly like the witch hunt "campus sexual assault" claims that end up being a vindictive immature coed knowing exactly what to say and do to annihilate the reputation and future of their ex (like disgusting "mattress girl" Emma Sulkowicz-- remember that her accused BF won a very large civil suit against the university).

The lynch mobs have to stop. We have to have a more robust and systematic, fair and objective system to evaluate and take action on these claims-- particularly accusations that are decades old. Right now, the tide is turning such that anyone who makes a claim of sexual assault or sexual impropriety are starting to be looked at as vindictive and calculating, money grubbers, or "hysterical." That is a step back of at least 50 years, and a serious and devastating blow to women, girls, and children who are ACTUAL victims of life changing sexual assault.
 
  • #392
Please keep on topic. Only approved mainstream media sources.

I really do not want to have to close this thread so please help me out here OK?

Thank you,
Tricia
 
  • #393
There is a strong argument to be made that Al Franken’s central reason for resigning from his Senate seat is that he knew he would be reduced to being shunned by his peers and the press if he had remained to represent Minnesota in the congressional upper chamber.

In short, he would have become a joke, an afterthought, a pariah, a no one.

For a man who was courted by everyone in the Democratic Party to headline their fundraisers — both for their re-elections as well as their state party’s coffers — fawned over for his Hollywood pedigree, and admired by progressives for his notorious grilling of Republicans appointed to Cabinet positions in the Trump administration, the mere thought of being reduced to zero status in American politics was a bridge too far for the egocentric Minnesotan.

In truth, it likely repulsed him.

He is a man used to being center stage, needed, wanted, catered to, fawned over, and courted.

If you have any doubt to the validity of this argument, consider his exit speech on the floor of the Senate when he announced he will resign his seat last Thursday; he never once admitted doing anything wrong. He also never said he was sorry.

more at link


http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/salena-zito-for-once-the-joke-is-on-al-franken/article/2642972
 
  • #394
  • #395
There is a strong argument to be made that Al Franken’s central reason for resigning from his Senate seat is that he knew he would be reduced to being shunned by his peers and the press if he had remained to represent Minnesota in the congressional upper chamber.

In short, he would have become a joke, an afterthought, a pariah, a no one.

For a man who was courted by everyone in the Democratic Party to headline their fundraisers — both for their re-elections as well as their state party’s coffers — fawned over for his Hollywood pedigree, and admired by progressives for his notorious grilling of Republicans appointed to Cabinet positions in the Trump administration, the mere thought of being reduced to zero status in American politics was a bridge too far for the egocentric Minnesotan.

In truth, it likely repulsed him.

He is a man used to being center stage, needed, wanted, catered to, fawned over, and courted.

If you have any doubt to the validity of this argument, consider his exit speech on the floor of the Senate when he announced he will resign his seat last Thursday; he never once admitted doing anything wrong. He also never said he was sorry.

more at link

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/salena-zito-for-once-the-joke-is-on-al-franken/article/2642972

As a Minnesotan, although no longer living there, I can say that he has lots and lots of support . Many many women are speaking out in his behalf.

I posted how a former Republican Governor urges him to stay.
https://blogs.mprnews.org/capitol-view/2017/12/former-gop-minn-governor-urges-franken-to-stay/

Minnesota is a super place. Great education. Lots of Fortune 500 companies.

People are tough in MN. We have to be because it gets to - 40 below.

MN is very free of corruption.

Al Franken does not need the money.
 
  • #396
I agree with much of this. However, these circumstances are not the same as those under which Al Franken was "lynched". What you're describing, IMO, is more akin to the Josh Duggar sweep-it-under-the-rug circumstances. As I posted upthread, we have to come to a place where we as a society can evaluate the circumstances of EACH allegation of sexual impropriety, and decide what (if any) "punishments" will be meted out.

There are many different "kinds" of sexual impropriety/ assault/ rape, and we have to use our critical thinking to decipher just what exactly is going on.

For example, for all of the chest beating about child rape, and the 40 year old allegations against religious bride seeking Roy Moore, as a society we are perfectly content to watch from afar as religious cults like the FLDS birth children into their nightmare, with the express purpose of creating a hostage and ignorant population of little girls for the exaulted men to sexually use and prey on, all under the guise of "freedom of religion".

We are content, as a western society, to turn a blind eye to the forced genital mutiliations and child marriages of the immigrant muslims living among us, for the express purpose of annihilating a woman's sexuality, causing permanent pain, and truncating her life possibilities as "freedom of religion". Indeed, scores upon scores of women (and men) on our soil vociferously support the systematic abuse and subjugation of muslim girls and women on our soil as "freedom of religion", and insist that they are "persecuted" for their beliefs and actions.

Millions of little children have been abused sexually by trusted adults, clergy, relatives, teachers, caregivers. No one is denying that happens.

Many women HAVE been raped violently, or forced into sexual slavery or submission. No one is denying that happens.

Many women HAVE used/ exchanged/ traded their sexuality or sexual favors to advance their careers, or to increase their income-- many willingly, others coerced.

Some women HAVE completely fabricated stories of sexual impropriety or assault for the purpose of vengeance, or extorting favors or money.

What I'm saying, and what a lot of other people are saying, is that what Al Franken has been accused of is VASTLY different, and yes, VASTLY less damaging, vastly less serious, and vastly less PROVABLE than the first abusive scenarios above, and should not be lumped in together with those situations.

There can be NO DENIAL that SOME women (and men) HAVE used, exaggerated, or fabricated sexual accusations of dubious truth, with the purpose of vengeance against someone, personal, occupational, or political.

The situation with Al Franken, IMO, is precisely that kind of situation.

"IF" he is guilty of anything, he is guilty of boorish or vulgar, episodic pranks/ lewd jokes. No small suprise there, as he MADE HIS CAREER AS A BOORISH, LEWD COMEDIAN at the time the alleged behavior happened! A prank, or a joke, 10+ years ago, with a willing participant who made her career as a stripper, is definitely not the same thing as being a sexual predator. How do we know he stuck his tongue in her mouth?? How do we know she didn't encourage him or tongue him back? How do we know what kind of sexual-charged banter went between them on and off stage? We can't, because her own circumstances make her not a credible complainant.

Tweeden isn't objectively "right" just because now, ten years later, she claims she "felt" a certain way about what did, or didn't happen. He shouldn't lose his political seat over that, IMO. (And I'm no fan of AF's politics.) She didn't say a word for 10 years. TEN years. And not because she was "afraid" she wouldn't be believed, or was so "traumatized." She's a vindictive woman who knew how to report and manipulate that situation to weaponize it for political and personal gain. That's despicable.

Complaints which are definitely not prosecutable crimes, nor even realistically winnable civil matters, which have exactly no proof, presumably happened decades ago, and accusers of dubious credibility, have been used as a witch hunt by a media, political machinery, and civil population to lynch AF for political means. Just exactly like the witch hunt "campus sexual assault" claims that end up being a vindictive immature coed knowing exactly what to say and do to annihilate the reputation and future of their ex (like disgusting "mattress girl" Emma Sulkowicz-- remember that her accused BF won a very large civil suit against the university).

The lynch mobs have to stop. We have to have a more robust and systematic, fair and objective system to evaluate and take action on these claims-- particularly accusations that are decades old. Right now, the tide is turning such that anyone who makes a claim of sexual assault or sexual impropriety are starting to be looked at as vindictive and calculating, money grubbers, or "hysterical." That is a step back of at least 50 years, and a serious and devastating blow to women, girls, and children who are ACTUAL victims of life changing sexual assault.

BBM ("IF" he is guilty of anything, he is guilty of boorish or vulgar, episodic pranks/ lewd jokes) - and this is where I see the problem. Excusing behaviour like this by treating it as prank or lewd jokes - c'mon! I along with many other women have had to face this type of behaviour our whole lives - it impacts on self esteem, self worth, self identity. It digs at the heart of how we as women see our place in society. I don't care if some idiot thinks he is just having a joke or pranking it up...this stuff has repercussions! Why is it soooo hard for some men and women to understand this??? About time women took a stand against such behaviour, but sadly I think only some men will change their behaviours - others will always have ways to use influence power and money to avoid being exposed.

Damn this stuff makes me so angry!
 
  • #397
There is a strong argument to be made that Al Franken’s central reason for resigning from his Senate seat is that he knew he would be reduced to being shunned by his peers and the press if he had remained to represent Minnesota in the congressional upper chamber.

In short, he would have become a joke, an afterthought, a pariah, a no one.


For a man who was courted by everyone in the Democratic Party to headline their fundraisers — both for their re-elections as well as their state party’s coffers — fawned over for his Hollywood pedigree, and admired by progressives for his notorious grilling of Republicans appointed to Cabinet positions in the Trump administration, the mere thought of being reduced to zero status in American politics was a bridge too far for the egocentric Minnesotan.

In truth, it likely repulsed him.

He is a man used to being center stage, needed, wanted, catered to, fawned over, and courted.

If you have any doubt to the validity of this argument, consider his exit speech on the floor of the Senate when he announced he will resign his seat last Thursday; he never once admitted doing anything wrong. He also never said he was sorry.

more at link


http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/salena-zito-for-once-the-joke-is-on-al-franken/article/2642972

BBM

Well, if those things were happening, it would essentially mean he couldn't do his job representing MN in the Senate and getting the work done that needs to get done. Congress works through relationships, and if a scandal resulted in him being shunned, he couldn't do the job he was elected to do.

I don't think it was a case of him being repulsed by losing the limelight.

He was in the limelight because he is good with words, knows how to command an audience, connects with people, realizes he can get more done if he is in the limelight. Being in politics is often a performance, and he has the skills to perform.

And, he didn't go into politics for the limelight, he was inspired by Paul Wellstone and the progressive tradition of Minnesota. He was a rising star in the Senate because he took his job seriously, not because he needed attention personally. He could've done other things with his life but chose to go into politics, and from what I can see, he did it to serve.

jmopinion
 
  • #398
BBM

Well, if those things were happening, it would essentially mean he couldn't do his job representing MN in the Senate and getting the work done that needs to get done. Congress works through relationships, and if a scandal resulted in him being shunned, he couldn't do the job he was elected to do.

I don't think it was a case of him being repulsed by losing the limelight.

He was in the limelight because he is good with words, knows how to command an audience, connects with people, realizes he can get more done if he is in the limelight. Being in politics is often a performance, and he has the skills to perform.

And, he didn't go into politics for the limelight, he was inspired by Paul Wellstone and the progressive tradition of Minnesota. He was a rising star in the Senate because he took his job seriously, not because he needed attention personally. He could've done other things with his life but chose to go into politics, and from what I can see, he did it to serve.

jmopinion


Minnesotans knew who they elected to the Senate: a former Hollywood writer and actor, provocative talk-show host, and satirist. His prominence in the Senate was pretty reflective of his previous life. There was a lot of noise, but according to research done by the Twin Cities Pioneer Press, his home state newspaper, his legislative career was weak.

Of Franken's 141 pieces of legislation (85 bills, 47 amendments, and nine resolutions) none became law.
 
  • #399
Minnesotans knew who they elected to the Senate: a former Hollywood writer and actor, provocative talk-show host, and satirist. His prominence in the Senate was pretty reflective of his previous life. There was a lot of noise, but according to research done by the Twin Cities Pioneer Press, his home state newspaper, his legislative career was weak.

Of Franken's 141 pieces of legislation (85 bills, 47 amendments, and nine resolutions) none became law.

"In any given two-year session of Congress, ten-thousand or more bills are introduced. But only about 4 percent of them become law. Take away bills that do things like naming post offices and designating days of the year as commemorative holidays and it's probably more like one percent." ....

"So, why do people introduce bills that have no chance of becoming law? Maybe they are addressing concerns that are unique to their district. For example, a draconian gun-control law probably makes more sense in inner-city Chicago than it does in rural New Hampshire. Or perhaps they just trying to put new ideas out into the public discourse. Or perhaps they want to take a radical stance on an issue as a purely political tactic, to show their constituents that they are serious about something. Nobody is going to introduce a bill they don't believe in, but they might introduce a bill that nobody but them will get behind."

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/wires/2009/08/25/the-vast-majority-of-bill_ws_268630.html
 
  • #400
I think Franken should stay and defend himself.
 

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