Sentencing and beyond- Jodi Arias General Discussion #3

[ElleElle]

Jodi could get that information from a lot of places.While reading the April texts, I noted that Travis starting asking his friends if they'd seen Mimi's facebook or myspace streams. He was excited at whatever she might have remarked about him. Jodi probably stalked the pages of Travis' friends and got info, saw pics, drew conclusions.

Additionally, the way I understood the Cancun deal, Chris negotiated for the ticket and 1/2 a room. Travis said he'd be up for it, except he might take Mimi. Chris then said they'd shuffle the men together and put Mimi with some women, and then they'd buy the plane ticket for the Nanny themselves. Travis said that only came up to $1,300, but he owed $2,000. Chris said it was fine and worth it.

ChrisHughes 04/17/08 12:51PM Inbox Incoming How about u Zion and mac in zions room, and kelsie, mimi and ryel in yours ChrisH

Something like what Chris is proposing had to happen anyway. I doubt Mimi would be in the same room with Travis. So if this was the arrangement, why wouldn't he tell Jodi?

Because they went on their last PPL road trip together TA did not want to tell JA as he did not want to come. He might of known she'd go psycho.

I don't think Lisa nor Mimi were into PPL, only JA was.

 

[RickshawFan]

How did 85 pages of this thread get reduced to 14? Something's not right.....

 

[Steve44]

Boy what spin doctors!!! If that's what they consider luxury. Yeah, that's the real reason she's watching telenovellas if she even has access to a TV- to keep up her Spanish- the girl who wouldn't even admit to being Hispanic!!!:facepalm: And a fan and ice, oh my!!! Under the comments there is one idiot who is insisting that because a handrail in Travis's house wasn't tested, therefore he must've been alive after the timestamps, honest to god!!!
If they want luxury prison, they should see the Club Med conditions Heather Mack has in Bali.

They are attempting to convince either themselves or others that she's free even while imprisoned, that since her imprisonment is unjust, she is ultimately unaffected by it, and is stoically maintaining the normalcy that is an innocent persons right. It's another attempt to deny her guilt, in this case by showing that she is unaffected by the guilty environment she finds herself in.

 

[Steve44]

How did 85 pages of this thread get reduced to 14? Something's not right.....

The old thread was closed, then split into two, one for discussing Nurmi's book, and another for discussing everything else post-conviction, and some posts from each subject were carried over to the new respective threads. Why I don't know...

 

[Soulsad]

I think it'as because the new 'Books- Released-by-Prosecuter' thread. I think you may find all of the old posts there.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ooks-released-by-Prosecutor-amp-DA-Nov-2015-2

How did 85 pages of this thread get reduced to 14? Something's not right.....

 

[Soulsad]

I think it'as because the new 'Books- Released-by-Prosecuter' thread. I think you may find all of the old posts there.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ooks-released-by-Prosecutor-amp-DA-Nov-2015-2

How did 85 pages of this thread get reduced to 14? Something's not right.....

 

[RickshawFan]

I think on some level he liked the attention he was getting from her, even when it was negative. She reacted differently to him than any other woman, and responded enthusiastically to his flirts, and even followed through. I think he was testing his ability with women through her, and was somewhat confused and curious about the effect he apparently had on her, and was trying to fathom what it was exactly about him that had this effect. He did not attribute all of her reactions to her damaged psychology, but thought perhaps it was something innately within him that was the cause, and his curiosity and need to know himself kept him tied to her longer than it was actually safe to do.

She also had him convinced that he was the one in a mess. He also, as most anyone would, became more and more of a mess. He got isolated by her, to some degree dependent (she made sure he didn't have anyone else); Jodi blasted his family and his "family" (Deanna and Hugheses), reduced his savings and ability to flee, made him lose confidence that what he was seeing about her was true and lose confidence in ever getting out of the hole he was in. This is all domestic violence.

We can keep saying over and over "Why didn't he see?" and "Why didn't he stick to his guns when he said he didn't want to have any more to do with?" This is hallmark domestic violence; this is exactly the predicament of the domestic violence victim. Jodi was nowhere trying to help him get back on track. Her mission was to make his entanglements worse. His response is always "I must be looking at this wrong." Score for Jodi.

 

[Shadowboy]

FYI...My one month BK subscription is up. I don't think I'll renew it until the May & June texts are posted there. Maybe other current subscribers will post more about April texts?


For me, April's texts cleared up when she left Mesa, when and how he first learned of the fake spy Michelle, and why he was angry with her about the drawing she left, etc.

I think the texts also make it perfectly clear that she began setting him up literally from the first day she left Mesa. Whether she was premeditating murder or "just" laying the groundwork to destroy his reputation is less clear, but it was one or the other.

One general impression of the texts overall is the sense I had of Travis feeling lost. He's spending less time on work, is hating the politics, even bows out of one of his weekly PPL calls abruptly, 5 minutes in.

He's stressed and says so, and that was unusual for him. He snaps even at Deanna, the only time I've seen that. He texts with women almost non-stop, but it doesn't mean anything to them or to him, really.

He circles around Mimi, and wow, his texts sound like they're written by a teenager with a crush. He asks multiple friends for advice about what to say to her, how to act, whether or not to give her flowers, where to take her on a date. When Mimi responds to him about anything he immediately texts multiple friends to tell them that news and to ask- what now??

He is so obviously and completely uncomfortable being with and around Mimi its ridiculous, and he's aware that he is, but he pushes on. Clock's ticking. He's acutely aware he's running out of time to get the marriage piece in place.

Meanwhile he's really beginning to feel genuine and deep regret about losing Lisa. Mimi would be the "perfect" Mormon wife he's supposed to marry, a small handful of other women he flirts with online make him feel alpha and hot and so are fun, the killer is who he falls back on when he's truly bored and lonely, and Lisa? Lisa he seems to put in a whole different category. I think it surprised him he couldn't move on from her, but there it was. He loved her.

The only truly new and surprising info (to me) was that the killer not only responded to his threat to call her out as a psycho, but that she actually told him about stalking him- sleeping on his couch and leaving before he got up, etc.

Wow again. Manipulation by her of whatever kind for whatever reason, but WTH he wasn't so seriously creeped out by it that he didn't cut off all contact with her at that point.

Maybe May's texts will clear up......something?

Hope4 .... say it ain't so!!! Truly appreciate all of your hard work and insights. I bolded part of your post because ... call me dumb. Been following along here, but I'm STILL confused about what day she left (at one point, I thought 'we' had settled on April 8th); and had decided the 'where are you? hope you're doing well, what ev' texts between JA and TA that day were likely generated by The Convict. Still don't get why he was so angry about the signed 'art' left behind.

Help?

Sorry, I'm not a BK member and am having brain farts trying to fill in the blanks.

Thanks, again, for keeping the rest of us up to speed.

 

[RickshawFan]

j

Do you mean at a truck stop? Do they have showers in Semi- trucks???:thinking::waitasec:

I might have to take back the concept of a shower in a truck, but from Jodi's point of view it might have made no difference": $20 for a BJ and burger combo. She could've got her shower and burger in the truckstop, he the BJ in the truck. She could've concealed herself from surveillance cameras with a towel or other makeshift disguise.

And a trucker would never have spilled the secret: getting it on with a on company time? Especially when he (I'm being heterocentric 'cos Jodi sure is) found out she's a murderer?

 

[Steve44]

She also had him convinced that he was the one in a mess. He also, as most anyone would, became more and more of a mess. He got isolated by her, to some degree dependent (she made sure he didn't have anyone else); Jodi blasted his family and his "family" (Deanna and Hugheses), reduced his savings and ability to flee, made him lose confidence that what he was seeing about her was true and lose confidence in ever getting out of the hole he was in. This is all domestic violence.

We can keep saying over and over "Why didn't he see?" and "Why didn't he stick to his guns when he said he didn't want to have any more to do with?" This is hallmark domestic violence; this is exactly the predicament of the domestic violence victim. Jodi was nowhere trying to help him get back on track. Her mission was to make his entanglements worse. His response is always "I must be looking at this wrong." Score for Jodi.

I don't think it was as clear-cut as that. She never succeeded in cutting off his other friendships, which is a hallmark of domestic violence, and he was actively pursuing other relationships in the midst of dealing with her.

I'm not saying she wasn't playing serious head games with him, she was, but he was buying it less and less. I think ultimately she realized she was losing all control over him and as he knew too much about her to be a safe enemy, she had to eliminate him as a risk to her future plans in the Mormon community.

As I said, I think he was somewhat fascinated by the dynamic between them, and the effect he apparently had on her, and misread that as originating within himself to some degree and not solely due to her sickness. He was wrong about that.

At the same time, I don't think he ever felt really threatened by her, he was puzzled by the relationship and kept it going in order to find answers, and in finding them, maybe be able to help her as well as himself.

Just like her parents, he really didn't know what he was dealing with.

 

[wasnt_me]

Because they went on their last PPL road trip together TA did not want to tell JA as he did not want to come. He might of known she'd go psycho.

I don't think Lisa nor Mimi were into PPL, only JA was.

Travis told Jodi whenever he went somewhere. Even about a ski trip he went on in April. He put Jodi in the same room with Chitanya lay, knowing those two women could easily talk and figure out that he had a relationship with them both. Maybe it was the last PPL trip, but not the last trip, as he is on tape talking about visiting her.

Jodi already knew he'd qualified for the Cancun trip, as well. So not telling hr because he didn't want her to go doesn't seem like a priority. Her going "pyscho" wouldn't seem to matter as she was in Yreka. And maybe that was his miscalculation. He told her. She drove down there and killed him.

 

[wasnt_me]

Reasons would be that he wasn't particularly interested in sharing his life with her at that point, in fact he wanted to move in the opposite direction. He may have told her, or he may have not. IMO this level of detail about their interactions will be never progress beyond the level of speculation.

That she did a fair amount of unwanted snooping into his personal life is certain, but to establish that as the case for a randomly chosen event based on the limited record of their interactions we have is not really possible.

What is known is that he continued to interact with her on some level to the very end, so he was likely sharing at least some personal information with her, but what that specifically was and what she only learned on her own through unwanted snooping is not really possible to determine unless it's self-evident in the nature of their interactions.

That's really not true from the level of interaction they have through phone calls and text messages in April. As I said in a previous post, he was even texting her about his April ski trip. We hear him on the phone ourselves talking about visiting her.

 

[Steve44]

Travis told Jodi whenever he went somewhere. Even about a ski trip he went on in April. He put Jodi in the same room with Chitanya lay, knowing those two women could easily talk and figure out that he had a relationship with them both. Maybe it was the last PPL trip, but not the last trip, as he is on tape talking about visiting her.

Jodi already knew he'd qualified for the Cancun trip, as well. So not telling hr because he didn't want her to go doesn't seem like a priority. Her going "pyscho" wouldn't seem to matter as she was in Yreka. And maybe that was his miscalculation. He told her. She drove down there and killed him.

It wasn't the trip to Cancun that motivated her to kill him imo. It was all she had revealed about herself to him in the processes of her manipulations (ie their 'relationship') that if revealed by him to the Mormon/PPL community would ostracize her and make it impossible to present the wholesome image she depended upon.

 

[Hope4More]

I don't think it was as clear-cut as that. She never succeeded in cutting off his other friendships, which is a hallmark of domestic violence, and he was actively pursuing other relationships in the midst of dealing with her.

I'm not saying she wasn't playing serious head games with him, she was, but he was buying it less and less. I think ultimately she realized she was losing all control over him and as he knew too much about her to be a safe enemy, she had to eliminate him as a risk to her future plans in the Mormon community.

As I said, I think he was somewhat fascinated by the dynamic between them, and the effect he apparently had on her, and misread that as originating within himself to some degree and not solely due to her sickness. He was wrong about that.

At the same time, I don't think he ever felt really threatened by her, he was puzzled by the relationship and kept it going in order to find answers, and in finding them, maybe be able to help her as well as himself.

Just like her parents, he really didn't know what he was dealing with.

Strongly disagree on several points. She did succeed in cutting him off from key friends at key points, including for a time from his besties, the Hughes, and she was absolutely responsible for destroying his relationship with Lisa.

She cut him off more subtly when she went all in for seducing him with kinky sex, beginning in Jan 2008. Yah yah it takes two, yada yada, but that kink was hers, not his. It degraded him far more than it ever degraded her, and that was HUGE in making him feel increasingly unworthy and weak, and cut off from his salvation, the church.

IMO she wasn't just playing serious mind games with him. He said it best- that she had destroyed him from the inside out. She took it all...his money, on the verge of losing his house, his lifeline to the church, his self confidence, his ability to focus on solving the problems her sabotages were creating. Even his fricking journals, FGS. Those aren't mind games. She was assassinating his soul.

Last, I don't think he was fascinated by their dynamic at all. He was worn out by her, gutted by her, and had emergencies on all fronts he was trying to deal with, and even that 1,000 miles away, she NEVER let him be.

I don't think he knew up from down in April, and sometimes reached out to her because she was a psychopathic predator who knew very well how to sedate her prey before she went back for the kill.

JMO

 

[Hope4More]

She also had him convinced that he was the one in a mess. He also, as most anyone would, became more and more of a mess. He got isolated by her, to some degree dependent (she made sure he didn't have anyone else); Jodi blasted his family and his "family" (Deanna and Hugheses), reduced his savings and ability to flee, made him lose confidence that what he was seeing about her was true and lose confidence in ever getting out of the hole he was in. This is all domestic violence.

We can keep saying over and over "Why didn't he see?" and "Why didn't he stick to his guns when he said he didn't want to have any more to do with?" This is hallmark domestic violence; this is exactly the predicament of the domestic violence victim. Jodi was nowhere trying to help him get back on track. Her mission was to make his entanglements worse. His response is always "I must be looking at this wrong." Score for Jodi.

I think I just said the same thing, less succinctly of course.

 

[Shadowboy]

It wasn't the trip to Cancun that motivated her to kill him imo. It was all she had revealed about herself to him in the processes of her manipulations (ie their 'relationship') that if revealed by him to the Mormon/PPL community would ostracize her and make it impossible to present the wholesome image she depended upon.

YES!!!

Strongly disagree on several points. She did succeed in cutting him off from key friends at key points, including for a time from his besties, the Hughes, and she was absolutely responsible for destroying his relationship with Lisa.

She cut him off more subtly when she went all in for seducing him with kinky sex, beginning in Jan 2008. Yah yah it takes two, yada yada, but that kink was hers, not his. It degraded him far more than it ever degraded her, and that was HUGE in making him feel increasingly unworthy and weak, and cut off from his salvation, the church.

IMO she wasn't just playing serious mind games with him. He said it best- that she had destroyed him from the inside out. She took it all...his money, on the verge of losing his house, his lifeline to the church, his self confidence, his ability to focus on solving the problems her sabotages were creating. Even his fricking journals, FGS. Those aren't mind games. She was assassinating his soul.

Last, I don't think he was fascinated by their dynamic at all. He was worn out by her, gutted by her, and had emergencies on all fronts he was trying to deal with, and even that 1,000 miles away, she NEVER let him be.

I don't think he knew up from down in April, and sometimes reached out to her because she was a psychopathic predator who knew very well how to sedate her prey before she went back for the kill.

JMO

That JA did “what she did” to protect her reputation, I have no doubt. But, IMO, it went one step further: she needed to protect her fantasies.

With Vampire Boy, it was that: being hooked up to a cute guy with mysterious powers (and coke). With MM, it was all about creating a ‘natural girl’ persona that others in their work/living group desired. With DB, it was creating ‘the wife’ (the ex-wife) by buying a home together; becoming a blond; and getting fake . God only knows where her Wicca fantasy originated: look like a goddess; smell like a goddess? Where the heck did THAT originate?

TA and the Mormon religion was yet another fantasy: a self-imagined route to financial and socio-religious-spiritual acceptance. IMO, TA was not only a threat to her reputation, but to her fantastical views of her life possibilities.

He popped her bubble of imagined riches. Her other BFs had not.

 

[Steve44]

Strongly disagree on several points. She did succeed in cutting him off from key friends at key points, including for a time from his besties, the Hughes, and she was absolutely responsible for destroying his relationship with Lisa.

She cut him off more subtly when she went all in for seducing him with kinky sex, beginning in Jan 2008. Yah yah it takes two, yada yada, but that kink was hers, not his. It degraded him far more than it ever degraded her, and that was HUGE in making him feel increasingly unworthy and weak, and cut off from his salvation, the church.

IMO she wasn't just playing serious mind games with him. He said it best- that she had destroyed him from the inside out. She took it all...his money, on the verge of losing his house, his lifeline to the church, his self confidence, his ability to focus on solving the problems her sabotages were creating. Even his fricking journals, FGS. Those aren't mind games. She was assassinating his soul.

Last, I don't think he was fascinated by their dynamic at all. He was worn out by her, gutted by her, and had emergencies on all fronts he was trying to deal with, and even that 1,000 miles away, she NEVER let him be.

I don't think he knew up from down in April, and sometimes reached out to her because she was a psychopathic predator who knew very well how to sedate her prey before she went back for the kill.

JMO

I agree that all of the elements of abuse were there, and even successful at times, but particularly at the end he was wising up and turning on her, and she knew he would not be controllable for much longer, she never succeeded in driving a wedge completely between him and the Hughes, for example, though maybe for a time. As you pointed out though, he made efforts to maintain the relationship himself, and I think for several reasons, first, he really didn't appreciate how dangerous she was, perhaps he still had a desire to help her, and I still believe he was trying to learn about himself through the relationship.

 

[wasnt_me]

It wasn't the trip to Cancun that motivated her to kill him imo. It was all she had revealed about herself to him in the processes of her manipulations (ie their 'relationship') that if revealed by him to the Mormon/PPL community would ostracize her make it impossible to present the wholesome image she depended upon.

I was not saying that "for the truth of the matter asserted." I was merely responding to a poster's particular statement that Travis wouldn't tell Jodi because she was psycho. I was merely bouncing off her post, stating that possibly his mistake was telling and then she indeed went psycho. My statement was mere chatting, not trying to educate on a motive.

The more I read these latest texts, comparing statements and timeframes against journal entries, and her manifesto, etc, the more and more this seems to have a lot to do with his relationship with Lisa.

I'm starting to believe his relationship with Lisa broke him and Jodi up, and the versions of stories she tells about what she knew and when she knew it--or didn't know--about Lisa and Travis is very telling.

These confession sessions she and Travis had to keep having about who was dating whom or not dating whom at what specific time in their relationship is starting to seem significant to me.

It's significant that around TA's 30th birthday, he wants to start getting serious about finding a wife. In May of 2007, Lisa's name shows up in Jodi's journal. He and Jodi break up June 29th. Lisa says she and Travis started dating at the beginning of July 2007, but she's not certain of the date. (or did she say June? help me out.)

Either way, it's starting to become apparent to me, tell me what you think, that Lisa was the one on these text messages Jodi snooped through that summer. And if Lisa and Travis were getting involved at the time that Travis wanted to get a wife, there is no way in hell he wanted her around in Mesa or IN THE SAME WARD as Lisa and him. So it would make perfect sense that he'd be angry about where she'd move.

I hadn't realized Jodi moved out of Darryl's house in May because the house was finally either foreclosed on or sold. So she needed somewhere to live. She wound up in Big Sur--probably because Travis told her not to move herself to Mesa. The break up could have been all about that, starting as far back as when she had to get out of Darryl's house.

It would make sense that, with nowhere to go, she'd dream of Travis marrying her and moving her to Mesa. I believe Travis probably told her "thanks but no thanks." Her questioning about it might have also led to him thinking he needed to get serious--with only a year left in the ward.

But I must make sure you understand, I'm not asserting any of this as some fact I have discovered. I'm just bouncing ideas off everyone here. I'm not saying that I am correct or not correct. Just chatting with you guys about what I observed.

 

[Shadowboy]

But I must make sure you understand, I'm not asserting any of this as some fact I have discovered. I'm just bouncing ideas off everyone here. I'm not saying that I am correct or not correct. Just chatting with you guys about what I observed.

Hey! We're all in the same club: We Who Parse (over and over and over again)

 

[wasnt_me]

I don't think it was as clear-cut as that. She never succeeded in cutting off his other friendships, which is a hallmark of domestic violence, and he was actively pursuing other relationships in the midst of dealing with her.

I'm not saying she wasn't playing serious head games with him, she was, but he was buying it less and less. I think ultimately she realized she was losing all control over him and as he knew too much about her to be a safe enemy, she had to eliminate him as a risk to her future plans in the Mormon community.

As I said, I think he was somewhat fascinated by the dynamic between them, and the effect he apparently had on her, and misread that as originating within himself to some degree and not solely due to her sickness. He was wrong about that.

At the same time, I don't think he ever felt really threatened by her, he was puzzled by the relationship and kept it going in order to find answers, and in finding them, maybe be able to help her as well as himself.

Just like her parents, he really didn't know what he was dealing with.

So far, my take on it is that, after Jodi left, Travis was lonely. Not because she wasn't there, but because he still had feelings for Lisa. Jodi wasn't there to distract him from those feelings. Mimi was paying him no attention, and the other women he was corresponding with talked a good game, but in the end, they were NOT coming over and being with him the way Jodi would.

The "missed" opportunities with women on his text messages even started to get on my nerves! They'd have the plans, someone would bail, usually the girl. It was very frustrating to me to keep reading women saying they were coming and then change of plans, blah, blah, blah.

The most frustrating to me was the woman who made it all the way to his house FINALLY. then she turned around and went home because people and cars were outside and she didn't want anyone to know she was there that late.

Then one time, at the very end of the april texts, he finally got one woman to get in her car and come, but at the same time, another woman he'd been trying to hook up with texted him and said she was in a hotel in town right that moment. Suddenly, you see him trying to talk the first woman into not coming anymore! LOL :facepalm:

At the same time that month, you see Jodi texting some long thing about him opening up to her about his loneliness. I think Jodi was still filling the same void she was when she was in town--plan b when other women fell through. She'd be on the phone with him after he couldn't get anybody else or after other women went on ahead to sleep.

I really think that Jodi thought she could get him back. I think she believed that once he saw Mimi wasn't the one, he'd be back. But instead, he started missing Lisa. That had to drive Jodi mad that Travis went back on the Lisa thing instead of realizing that Jodi was the one.

Again, just my observations. I'm not saying I have it figured out.