Sentencing and beyond- Jodi Arias General Discussion #3

[ElleElle]

Ok... re-reading JAs manifesto.

I keep seeing her talk about her singing the National anthem. TA was supposed to go and she seems very, very upset by that. Maybe that's what motivated her to plot her road trip?

 

[ElleElle]

In her manifesto, she also she had the hand written copy of Chapter 1 of Travis' book, because she could not mail it. *Which this is a conversation they had via texts*

So my question is, why did she have the hand written copy of Chapter 1 of Travis' book if she was planning on visiting him?

 

[wasnt_me]

Elle,

Jodi is lying somewhere in this because in their April texts, she is supposed to mail him those pages. okay, so I think the timeline on this goes like this:

4/6--Jodi leaves finally after fake leaving for days. This is the "don't call me until you tell me who this fake Michelle is" day.

4/8--he's mad she left the drawing or whatever. Later, she asked "guess what I just found?" and Travis is happy.
4/11--he texts to see if she sent his stuff. She texts back how she's been trying to get in touch with him for days and she can't understand why he hasn't answered. it's 3amish. by 6pmish, she's requesting pics of him and he's obliging.

She texts him random things. one of which on the 14th was about someone calling her at 4am and not saying anything when she answered. Clearly one of her Antics like the mystery stalker she had.

Later that day, Travis asks her to mail naps' pics and shaving pics. She claims to be scrounging for change to mail. He asks her to just fax his book pages or scan them and email some pics. If she does, he says she will have gained a lot of ground.

4/16, he sent a "completion reminder. My book." She told him to remind himself because she mailed it two days ago. I guess he checks the mail because he said he got it. She was surprised it arrived so fast and asked for the post date. He said he'd already thrown it in the recycle bin. I'm guessing the envelope, but if she mailed it two days ago, I don't know why she needs him to read the postmark??? While she was asking that, he asked if she was still going to type it.

4/18, it sounds like he is sending her money. And then they have a text fight that day on her insulting his speech skills. He is mad at her because he spent two hours doing stuff for her, but she still hasn't made him those CD's.


4/19 so random. Travis has a party but supposedly at 1am on 20th he's texting jodi that he's in a club. I have never heard of Travis being in a club through out all these texts. Mormons go to clubs? after ufc parties?

anyways, that looks like it might be the last about his book pages, so Travis indicates he has them or he has whatever she mailed. I assume it's the handwritten book pages she mailed because he's still asking for the CD pics.

The more I read about this relationship, the less I understand why either of them bothered.

 

[RickshawFan]

Ok... re-reading JAs manifesto.

I keep seeing her talk about her singing the National anthem. TA was supposed to go and she seems very, very upset by that. Maybe that's what motivated her to plot her road trip?

It's mindboggling that she ever thought this would happen. He doesn't have any money, his business is in a hole, and he might lose his house. He told Jodi to get lost. He's gonna drive 2 days to Yreka and 2 days back just to hear Jodi sing the national anthem? I know she threw in a lot of "extras" like the Shakespeare festival and the Oregon coast.... News flash....It takes a whole day just to get to the Oregon coast from Yreka. Is she thinking he's gonna be there for a week? Where's he gonna stay, anyway? In her bedroom in her grandparents' house?

Does he even respond to this drivel in the texts?

I found a link to calculate gas costs between Point A and Point B: http://calculatemyroute.com/distance/Mesa-AZ/Yreka-CA.... Gas prices were over $4 per gallon in June 2008 . That's about $110 one way.

Flying into Yreka or Medford or Redding would have been prohibitive, since you'd have to take a puddle jumper (in the case of Yreka) or a not so gigantic plane (Medford) from a major airport; those flights are really expensive in the west because demand is higher than availability).

Considering Travis took Jodi to OKC just to reduce his gas costs....

I'm thinking Jodi might have planned on him having a car accident either on the coast or on the way there, or some other drive if they "didn't have time to go to the coast." All those roads lend themselves to driving off a cliff or being pushed off at a layby. A branch from a redwood tree could "accidentally" have fallen on him from 200 feet up (note: I have never seen a widowmaker on a redwood and there's not a whole lot of branch debris in a redwood grove, but this little piece of vital info most assuredly would have escaped Jodi's "brain"). He could have tripped while looking for whales. He could have got poisoned from eating clam chowder.... All 3 of those possibilities? That would be just like Jodi, too:"florid" with the details.

Also, Crater Lake might have been the real goal. She knows Crater Lake quite well because of her close ties with Bianca. Very easy to have the ground fall out from under you when a photo was being taken. She could have got this idea from their trip to the Grand Canyon, where there's a photo of Jodi play-pushing Travis off the edge.

For years, I had to do frequent business trips between the Oregon coast and the interior valleys, so my information is first-hand. Also, my memory was refreshed by a recent drive along the same Oregon route (which is the Oregon route Jodi would have had to take). There are frequent rock slides on this route, with rocks dropping from above on the sometimes one-and-a-half-lane-only highway..... The road drops crazily into a ferocious river.

The route from Yreka to the California coast (and then north into OR) is a crazy drive through a steep canyon, with no guard rails and a winding road hugging the side of the canyon. I took a piece of this recently.

Incidentally, Pelican Bay Prison is on both routes. I believe it's now closed for lack of funds, but it housed Charles Manson. It was the super maxiest prison in the country. To me, it looks as though it's half below ground. Too bad Jodi didn't get to experience the comforts of Pelican Bay as either a final resting place or en route to Perryville.....

 

[FinallyRegistered]

During this time, Travis is having all of these financial problems, but yet he buys an expensive ($1300?) camera. Weird.

 

[Steve44]

Yup. She had to be oblivious to the reality that she would be the most likely suspect to everyone who knew her track record.

She may have thought she was "safe" by being 1,000 miles away, but detectives have heard that song and dance before. Or headstand, as it were.

Her point of view was the only one that mattered to her. Others points of view were not things to be considered, just handled. They had no reality, no weight to her.

 

[b_lab7410]

The more I read about this relationship, the less I understand why either of them bothered.

That's extortion, taking his token items like that. He was compliant, but a lot of that might be him just going through the motions. There was that voice in his head that he MIGHT get him his journals back, the ring, if he was more pliable. So she strings him along. Yeah, the psychotic wanted access to his possessions, absorb his feelings, be a monkey wrench in his dating life, but she assessed there was a chance he'd communicate since he felt so powerless.

 

[RickshawFan]

....

4/16, he sent a "completion reminder. My book." She told him to remind himself because she mailed it two days ago. I guess he checks the mail because he said he got it. She was surprised it arrived so fast and asked for the post date. He said he'd already thrown it in the recycle bin. I'm guessing the envelope, but if she mailed it two days ago, I don't know why she needs him to read the postmark??? While she was asking that, he asked if she was still going to type it.
.....

I'm guessing that this whole text exchange is a Jodi concoction. Font: Travis' real words. Bold: Jodi saying there's no evidence if anyone wants to check up on whether she sent it or not. Underline: A bizarre detail about a postmark (huh??????) so if anyone ever reads this text, it'll seem like she has to have sent the manuscript back, it's just that Travis destroyed the evidence. Font: Travis again.

I can think of several possibilities:
1. JA is messing with texts and this has something to do with setting Travis up.
2. this is a practice run for Jodi; she's trying to figure out how to piece together TA's words interspersed with hers.
3. she's trying to figure out what to do with TA's handwriting, so she doesn't want to send him the chapter right back, and she'd like to mess with him anyway.
4. JA is trying to get TA to say something compromising so she can set up another batch of fake evidence against him
5. at the very least, she's making it seem as though there's something wrong with his brain.
6. the "postmark" is the kind of "florid" detail, which is the symptom of her lying (bwahahaha! since when do we even look at postmarks or use them? Jodi has clearly been reading pulp fiction......)

 

[RickshawFan]

Elle,

4/19 so random. Travis has a party but supposedly at 1am on 20th he's texting jodi that he's in a club. I have never heard of Travis being in a club through out all these texts. Mormons go to clubs? after ufc parties?

Jodi is interspersing fake texts with her own.....she's setting up material she can go to the bishop about....she is experimenting with this technique....she's trying to figure out what will work....she eventually settles on the sex tape concept.

 

[ElleElle]

Elle,

Jodi is lying somewhere in this because in their April texts, she is supposed to mail him those pages. okay, so I think the timeline on this goes like this:

4/6--Jodi leaves finally after fake leaving for days. This is the "don't call me until you tell me who this fake Michelle is" day.

4/8--he's mad she left the drawing or whatever. Later, she asked "guess what I just found?" and Travis is happy.
4/11--he texts to see if she sent his stuff. She texts back how she's been trying to get in touch with him for days and she can't understand why he hasn't answered. it's 3amish. by 6pmish, she's requesting pics of him and he's obliging.

She texts him random things. one of which on the 14th was about someone calling her at 4am and not saying anything when she answered. Clearly one of her Antics like the mystery stalker she had.

Later that day, Travis asks her to mail naps' pics and shaving pics. She claims to be scrounging for change to mail. He asks her to just fax his book pages or scan them and email some pics. If she does, he says she will have gained a lot of ground.

4/16, he sent a "completion reminder. My book." She told him to remind himself because she mailed it two days ago. I guess he checks the mail because he said he got it. She was surprised it arrived so fast and asked for the post date. He said he'd already thrown it in the recycle bin. I'm guessing the envelope, but if she mailed it two days ago, I don't know why she needs him to read the postmark??? While she was asking that, he asked if she was still going to type it.

4/18, it sounds like he is sending her money. And then they have a text fight that day on her insulting his speech skills. He is mad at her because he spent two hours doing stuff for her, but she still hasn't made him those CD's.


4/19 so random. Travis has a party but supposedly at 1am on 20th he's texting jodi that he's in a club. I have never heard of Travis being in a club through out all these texts. Mormons go to clubs? after ufc parties?

anyways, that looks like it might be the last about his book pages, so Travis indicates he has them or he has whatever she mailed. I assume it's the handwritten book pages she mailed because he's still asking for the CD pics.

The more I read about this relationship, the less I understand why either of them bothered.

BBM ~ That's right, forgot about that part, so of course her manifesto is one big fat lie like everything else.

Thank you so much for keeping the timelines straight and being here wasnt_me. :luv:

 

[RickshawFan]

During this time, Travis is having all of these financial problems, but yet he buys an expensive ($1300?) camera. Weird.

I thought that was strange, too. How do we know this even happened?

I thought it was especially strange since he bought his computer used, right? A businessman on top of his game would not buy a used computer, which is a basic business tool, and instead buy an expensive camera. Makes no sense. Especially since by this time Travis is writing a book and blogging.....

On the other side, TA was evidently extremely anxious. Jodi may have provoked PTSD in him that he had just sitting around in his past. One way to deal with these issues is to focus focus focus on something: the easiest thing to focus on is to make a purchase that needs research, advice from friends, projecting this or that solution....

 

[ElleElle]

It's mindboggling that she ever thought this would happen. He doesn't have any money, his business is in a hole, and he might lose his house. He told Jodi to get lost. He's gonna drive 2 days to Yreka and 2 days back just to hear Jodi sing the national anthem? I know she threw in a lot of "extras" like the Shakespeare festival and the Oregon coast.... News flash....It takes a whole day just to get to the Oregon coast from Yreka. Is she thinking he's gonna be there for a week? Where's he gonna stay, anyway? In her bedroom in her grandparents' house?

Does he even respond to this drivel in the texts?

I found a link to calculate gas costs between Point A and Point B: http://calculatemyroute.com/distance/Mesa-AZ/Yreka-CA.... Gas prices were over $4 per gallon in June 2008 . That's about $110 one way.

Flying into Yreka or Medford or Redding would have been prohibitive, since you'd have to take a puddle jumper (in the case of Yreka) or a not so gigantic plane (Medford) from a major airport; those flights are really expensive in the west because demand is higher than availability).

Considering Travis took Jodi to OKC just to reduce his gas costs....

I'm thinking Jodi might have planned on him having a car accident either on the coast or on the way there, or some other drive if they "didn't have time to go to the coast." All those roads lend themselves to driving off a cliff or being pushed off at a layby. A branch from a redwood tree could "accidentally" have fallen on him from 200 feet up (note: I have never seen a widowmaker on a redwood and there's not a whole lot of branch debris in a redwood grove, but this little piece of vital info most assuredly would have escaped Jodi's "brain"). He could have tripped while looking for whales. He could have got poisoned from eating clam chowder.... All 3 of those possibilities? That would be just like Jodi, too:"florid" with the details.

Also, Crater Lake might have been the real goal. She knows Crater Lake quite well because of her close ties with Bianca. Very easy to have the ground fall out from under you when a photo was being taken. She could have got this idea from their trip to the Grand Canyon, where there's a photo of Jodi play-pushing Travis off the edge.

For years, I had to do frequent business trips between the Oregon coast and the interior valleys, so my information is first-hand. Also, my memory was refreshed by a recent drive along the same Oregon route (which is the Oregon route Jodi would have had to take). There are frequent rock slides on this route, with rocks dropping from above on the sometimes one-and-a-half-lane-only highway..... The road drops crazily into a ferocious river.

The route from Yreka to the California coast (and then north into OR) is a crazy drive through a steep canyon, with no guard rails and a winding road hugging the side of the canyon. I took a piece of this recently.

Incidentally, Pelican Bay Prison is on both routes. I believe it's now closed for lack of funds, but it housed Charles Manson. It was the super maxiest prison in the country. To me, it looks as though it's half below ground. Too bad Jodi didn't get to experience the comforts of Pelican Bay as either a final resting place or en route to Perryville.....

They were supposed to check off places in 1000 Places to Visit ... JA was in a different world. There is no way TA would of visit her. So, she had to go visit him.

 

[krkrjx]

We know what TA's camera retailed for but do we know what he actually paid for it? Maybe he got some kind of special deal...it happens. Granted, even with a deal it was probably more than a person struggling financially should spend, but I wonder if he really paid retail.

Do we know for sure?

He was not into photography. I mean, everyone takes photos and he traveled so a camera is not an odd possession but he was not into photography as a hobby or special interest so a less costly camera would have served him just fine. I have always wondered why he had the one he had.

 

[MistyM]

Considering Travis took Jodi to OKC just to reduce his gas costs....

I'm thinking Jodi might have planned on him having a car accident either on the coast or on the way there, or some other drive if they "didn't have time to go to the coast." All those roads lend themselves to driving off a cliff or being pushed off at a layby. A branch from a redwood tree could "accidentally" have fallen on him from 200 feet up (note: I have never seen a widowmaker on a redwood and there's not a whole lot of branch debris in a redwood grove, but this little piece of vital info most assuredly would have escaped Jodi's "brain"). He could have tripped while looking for whales. He could have got poisoned from eating clam chowder.... All 3 of those possibilities? That would be just like Jodi, too:"florid" with the details.

Also, Crater Lake might have been the real goal. She knows Crater Lake quite well because of her close ties with Bianca. Very easy to have the ground fall out from under you when a photo was being taken. She could have got this idea from their trip to the Grand Canyon, where there's a photo of Jodi play-pushing Travis off the edge.

For years, I had to do frequent business trips between the Oregon coast and the interior valleys, so my information is first-hand. Also, my memory was refreshed by a recent drive along the same Oregon route (which is the Oregon route Jodi would have had to take). There are frequent rock slides on this route, with rocks dropping from above on the sometimes one-and-a-half-lane-only highway..... The road drops crazily into a ferocious river.

The route from Yreka to the California coast (and then north into OR) is a crazy drive through a steep canyon, with no guard rails and a winding road hugging the side of the canyon. I took a piece of this recently.

remind me never to get on your bad side, LOL. you have very imaginative yet sneaky ways of offing people!

:noooo:​

 

[Hez]

LOL! If there was a post of the month award, yours would win the Blue Ribbon, Hez.

Margaret Hamilton will get Jodi for that gaffe. And her little DOG, tooooo!

Aww thanks. :seeya:

 

[RickshawFan]

I’m looking over the EF interrogation tapes…every time I look at these I notice new details, Tape 1:

1.EF is actually very nervous when the interrogation begins, and he has rehearsed the first few paragraphs. He has a script in his head.
2.Jodi can be astonishingly still; note the very beginning of the tape. Not a twitch, for how long? I certainly can’t do this. I find this extremely creepy.
3.It’s so obvious that they’re videoing Jodi because the detectives magically show up. Somehow, magically, Jodi’s wish for a bottle of water, happens! But Jodi doesn’t catch on.
4. As though to make it seem as though there’s no videoing going on, Flores goes out of his way to write down the date, the time, the location, on his notepad. He does this very dramatically. It even looks like he's using outsize writing. I understand that stuff needs recording, but it’s way over the top, and he almost has Jodi contributing to the details. Objectively, it is quite funny to see him do this.
5.By the time Jodi gets done with her little routine about the tape recorders, Flores is in the groove. He also says explicitly that he’s “never touched” the recorders before, presumably for the record. This statement seems very odd otherwise.
6.Well, maybe not exactly in the groove, but I think EF has already given up on anticipating where this interrogation might go.
7.I’m sure most anyone can look goofy in the interrogation room, but Jodi’s affect is like she’s totally in charge, and her sequence of thoughts is bizarre-o.
8.Jodi’s talk style is accretive: she makes a statement, then she gloms something onto it, and then she gloms something else on to that etc. etc. and the sentence never ends! You can practically see her mind jump to the next obliquely-related clause.
9.And she keeps heading off questions she hasn’t even heard yet. This is like a kid going “I didn’t do it!” when mom is approaching to tell him it’s time for bed.
10.Maybe I should describe Jodi’s talk style as Tweet-ish: she only has so many words before she’s done enough on that thought, on to the next.
11.Who the hell moves to Yreka because their finances aren’t doing well? So they can pay back that long list of people she owes money? It's not like Yreka has enough restaurants (that she hasn't been fired from already) so you could work two jobs to pay the bills!
12.After the tape recorder moment, you can’t see Flores’ body language, except sometimes his hands, which are quite relaxed. I’ll bet he just can’t believe what’s going down and whatever strategy he had coming in might well have gone out the window, but let’s just hang in there and see where this goes…..
13.I believe most officers would be aggressive and want to get right to the point. Flores is very skilled…..
14.Flores then stabs Jodi by saying Travis has a reputation for being a flirt and that is who he was. Jodi visibly flinches. She’d have turned whiter if she could. She has nowhere to go with this truth.
15.Flores sighs loudly….lol.

I like to watch the way people think and how they construct facts (e.g. philosophers and scientists do not at all use the same rules of evidence, and their heads don't work at all the same.), and what kinds of questions they ask.

continued thoughts in next post....

 

[RickshawFan]

Now that I think about it.......Jodi never asks questions....NEVER. There's never a could you, would you, why, how, where, when. Ohh, maybe I take that back a little: "Can I have my purse?" "Could we turn up the heat?" But these are all about physical conditions, they're inconsequential, they're not about "important stuff."

No questions=not taking anyone else's input to adjust your point of view=extreme narcissism

Does Jodi even ask questions in the text messages? Anywhere? Without asking questions, you can's incorporate someone else's position into yours———>extreme narcissism.

While I'm at it: Jodi hardly ever uses the subjunctive. Subjunctive="iffiness". There's no subtlety, doubt, wishfulness, hypothetical, wonder, condition, e.g. if this, then that....; or especially the contrary-to-fact, "if X were true, Y would be true" (but X isn't true).

Jodi doesn't even have a word-pattern analogous to "If you don't take me to Cancun, I will kill you." This is a very basic conditional (it actually doesn't even use the subjunctive). The absence of conditionals (I'm thinking this reflects her worldview) may be the reason why it's impossible to land on a motive for the murder and be able to describe why she did it. She doesn't have "cause———>effect". She has..... "You aren't taking me to Cancun. I'm killing you." These two sentences are declarative statements that can stand on their own, not conditionally related to one another. If I'm thinking about this correctly, you'd have to be able to state her position in conditionals in order to arrive at a motive.
At the very least, you'd need a "because." Does she even ever use the word "because"? Heck, without that, you can get: " I'm killing you. Deanna was your girl friend." " I'm killing you. You gave me a coat for Christmas." " I'm killing you. You bought a ring not for me." " I'm killing you. I didn't get to come to the cookie party." " I'm killing you. I want a Cinnabon right now and you aren't getting me one." See how the first clauses are disjointed from the second, and you can write almost anything in the second sentence, and it would work?
There was no condition or cause: Jodi doesn't "do" these. The reason we can't light on a motive is that Jodi's brain doesn't "do" motives: it does juxtapositions.

 

[b_lab7410]

I’m looking over the EF interrogation tapes…every time I look at these I notice new details, Tape 1:

2.Jodi can be astonishingly still; note the very beginning of the tape. Not a twitch, for how long? I certainly can’t do this. I find this extremely creepy.

7.I’m sure most anyone can look goofy in the interrogation room, but Jodi’s affect is like she’s totally in charge, and her sequence of thoughts is bizarre-o.

8.Jodi’s talk style is accretive: she makes a statement, then she gloms something onto it, and then she gloms something else on to that etc. etc. and the sentence never ends! You can practically see her mind jump to the next obliquely-related clause.

9.And she keeps heading off questions she hasn’t even heard yet. This is like a kid going “I didn’t do it!” when mom is approaching to tell him it’s time for bed.

10.Maybe I should describe Jodi’s talk style as Tweet-ish: she only has so many words before she’s done enough on that thought, on to the next.

14.Flores then stabs Jodi by saying Travis has a reputation for being a flirt and that is who he was. Jodi visibly flinches. She’d have turned whiter if she could. She has nowhere to go with this truth.

No wonder she needs the migraine meds; she's consistently determined about blunting her guilty body language. She's also panicking and getting mentally drained with purpose by Det Flores. The suspect maintaining such distance aides in controlling (target's) line of questioning I suppose...if they're a narcissist.

She couldn't do that with the female Det., whom wasn't as soft-spoken, and came across as generally concerned yet uninterested in her day-to-day/moment to moment imagination. Jodi's incessant fairy-tale sequence of events had nowhere to go (this Det. sure was good contrast, as were women like Dr. Demarte, Deanna, Lisa, and Mimi I thought, for that inferiority complex of her's that she tries to conceal so well).

At any moment Detective Flores could have found an opening. The predator had to mask her own vulnerabilities, pathological lying. Without context, no one can tell WHAT truths are being mixed in with her lies. I tend to believe she makes it up as she goes along as long as it sticks to her general sense of not wanting her image tarnished to her family, co-workers, friends. Yes, I know, no one of merit in those categories.

Flores asks, "So, did you kill him?" If she were remotely emotional, she'd have to act like a normal person and display genuine tears, shock, fear, etc etc. She can't do that and exudes no feeling. The threat of getting caught did do enough to indicate she was unstable IMO though. Like the detectives don't know her methods are a byproduct of not wanting anyone to get the better of her and/or discover her actual motivations. Any of the 30 cop dramas on tv could tell you, masking emotions and talking for five years are ALSO pretty obvious signs that you are guilty.

MY thing is, being trapped alone in a room having a 'conversation' with her, wow. :notgood: Detective Flores :therethere:

 

[Val1]

We know what TA's camera retailed for but do we know what he actually paid for it? Maybe he got some kind of special deal...it happens. Granted, even with a deal it was probably more than a person struggling financially should spend, but I wonder if he really paid retail.

Do we know for sure?

He was not into photography. I mean, everyone takes photos and he traveled so a camera is not an odd possession but he was not into photography as a hobby or special interest so a less costly camera would have served him just fine. I have always wondered why he had the one he had.

Considering when he bought it, perhaps it was meant to be the payoff in exchange for his journals and would explain why the box was still sitting on his desk in June. I think most neat freaks(judging TA by his closet) would have tossed the box by then and just kept the receipt/warranty in their files and the camera in its case, somewhere safe, perhaps even in his safe.

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

Ok... re-reading JAs manifesto.

I keep seeing her talk about her singing the National anthem. TA was supposed to go and she seems very, very upset by that. Maybe that's what motivated her to plot her road trip?

It was more likely the nineteen year old that came to his ufc party and flirted with him in church the next day. Travis writes of how sweet looking she was. It gave Jodi more motive to kill Travis. What was it she wrote? cut off it's life source, duct tape it down?