Shannan Gilbert Found, death declared an accident. #2

[Just K]

"Foot prints" as opposed to "shoe prints" was very significant. I saw the actual original news footage/video and I am fairly certain it was BC's young son who elaborated on this fine detail. Over a year ago, members looked at every aerial we could find and determined where in BC's driveway area could SG have left footprints. We noted there was white sand near the driveway of her home.


ETA: Here is a post with a link to BC's son, Justin's comment.
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NY-LI 10 bodies found on Beach-Poss. SrlKlr-12/10-4 id'd; more found 3/11 #7

 

[Peter Brendt]

It's a small thing, but a witness said, "We saw her footprints in the sand." Who is "we" (just Mr Canning and his mother?) Where were these footprints? When exactly did they see them? Would this mean "bare" feet, or shoe prints? Was she already running barefoot before she got to the marsh (aka thicket/impenetrable environment)? If she was already barefoot there is no way she held on to BOTH shoes (especially if they were the ballet-type slip-on) as she continued to run only to put them BOTH where they were found. This is as implausible as her pants falling off. (jmo ya' know )

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/serial_slay_house_raid_icUSVNRrW8naxbU8gaK5AJ


** About the digging (not related to the footprints!). I see a backhoe in the photos. Isn't a backhoe used to... uhmmm "dig"??

I admit, I'm a bit ambivalent about those foot prints. First thing, foot prints don't have labels with the name of the person who caused them. So the only way to be 100% sure would be if they would have followed to SG's body, which they obviously didn't. On the other hand, the number of girls running around at that time would be pretty limited. So, chances are ...
But then, it makes no real sense. I think, Coletti would have noticed if she would have been barefoot and certainly he would have noticed if she would have been already half naked. Aside of that, the only ways to get wet were the ocean and the marsh and why would she have wanted intentionally to get her cloths wet? According to Mari Gilbert, she was afraid of water. But then, if she made it down to the beach first, she may would have pulled off her shoes because it's easier to run barefoot there. And then, when re-entering the marsh, you would put them on again (unless you're confused by drugs), but then, as you said, she would have held on to them if they wouldn't have been on their feet. So ... there is at least a little bit of a mystery. Even the possibilities are limited.

And yes, there was a backhoe. Which, aside of digging, can be used to get rid of brambles and other brushes. And of course, nobody who has a backhoe in the area would use a crane to dig, so the crane is out of the game and all photos Truthspider posted, shows only the use for getting a way through and into the brushes. No holes also in those pics.

 

[Peter Brendt]

"Foot prints" as opposed to "shoe prints" was very significant. I saw the actual original news footage/video and I am fairly certain it was BC's young son who elaborated on this fine detail. Over a year ago, members looked at every aerial we could find and determined where in BC's driveway area could SG have left footprints. We noted there was white sand near the driveway of her home.


ETA: Here is a post with a link to BC's son, Justin's comment.
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NY-LI 10 bodies found on Beach-Poss. SrlKlr-12/10-4 id'd; more found 3/11 #7

Interesting is, that Internetgirl's post listed at least one more person, who actually saw SG and thought, she was in panic and on drugs. So the situation is, everyone who has to fear something makes no statement and every unbiased witness who saw her, describes confused panicking behavior without being someone actually after her. So how can it be, all those persons would be all in in a conspiracy to kill SG? It's simply impossible. I mean, okay, I can understand that people didn't want to get involved. That's the nature of such communities. But after giving statements to reporters, they had no profit from describing SG's behavior as confused, paranoid and probably under the influence.

 

[Sillybilly]

It was such a weird, strange, unusual thought, that a girl, that was seen running into it and not comming out on the other side could be still in there. A real intellectual challenge, you know.

<snip>

For the record, it is NOT true that Shannan was seen running into the marsh. An OB resident, Justin Canning said that her footprints were seen in the sand going toward Gilgo Beach, and CPH was known to say that he had seen her "running at night near Oak Beach, looking both sick and distressed". At no time was it said that she was seen running into the marsh.

 

[Peter Brendt]

<snip>

For the record, it is NOT true that Shannan was seen running into the marsh. An OB resident, Justin Canning said that her footprints were seen in the sand going toward Gilgo Beach, and CPH was known to say that he had seen her "running at night near Oak Beach, looking both sick and distressed". At no time was it said that she was seen running into the marsh.

Coletti

 

[Adler]

Cranes don't dig. If, then they drill. And there is no fact, there was actual digging or drilling, so please stop to make the "dig" story look like proven fact.

Even if the crane neither dug nor drilled nor both, I am interested in that little patch of disturbed ground that Truth posted. It's the aerial photo taken before any crane or men were in the marsh at all.

Truth says that Shannan's belongings were found about 100 feet from that little dug up spot. Is that true? Perhaps it was Shannan, herself, who caused that little dug up area, Peter. How far does one have to dig before reaching sand? Truth says 12 inches. You say a few inches? Could either fit the pre-terminal dig-and-hide-to-die behavior better than one where she disrobes and then runs another 1/4 mile to die (I am not asserting theories here, just making an observation.)

Of the later (post gb4 investigation) 1-5 photos that Truth posted, the men seem to be clustered in a group as though they had indeed found something and were concentrating their attention on one little spot, instead of fanning out and removing top-brush off the surface of the marsh. Where were SG's belongings found in relation to what we see in these latter photos? One hundred feet back toward Anchor Way?

Just curious.

 

[Just K]

Coletti pointed only in the direction of the reeds...he never said he saw her enter that field. BC's house was half way down Anchor Way. So, we can assume that GC DID NOT SEE SG enter the brush & reeds.

 

[Peter Brendt]

Even if the crane neither dug nor drilled nor both, I am interested in that little patch of disturbed ground that Truth posted. It's the aerial photo taken before any crane or men were in the marsh at all.

There is a little canal in the area, when was it last cleaned before the search action?

Truth says that Shannan's belongings were found about 100 feet from that little dug up spot. Is that true?

I din't measure it out, but just by the eye, about 30-35 meters could fit.

Perhaps it was Shannan, herself, who caused that little dug up area, Peter. How far does one have to dig before reaching sand? Truth says 12 inches. You say a few inches? Could either fit the pre-terminal dig-and-hide-to-die behavior better than one where she disrobes and then runs another 1/4 mile to die (I am not asserting theories here, just making an observation.)

12 inches = a few inches, so no problem there.
But I doubt, this was pre-terminal dig and-hide. It's given the other circumstances, like adrenaline, 60F and a good old fashioned drug induced paranoia, too near. We have to keep in mind, there were several effects working parallel and most of them would have been under these conditions good enough to kill her anyway.

Of the later (post gb4 investigation) 1-5 photos that Truth posted, the men seem to be clustered in a group as though they had indeed found something and were concentrating their attention on one little spot, instead of fanning out and removing top-brush off the surface of the marsh. Where were SG's belongings found in relation to what we see in these latter photos? One hundred feet back toward Anchor Way?
Just curious.

I admit, I have no answer on that question. I didn't enlarge the photos and took them under the magnifying glass. So the distance to Anchor Way is to me an unknown factor. What I can conclude from those pictures is that they found that spot, looked at it, exchanged opinions and then left it alone. Which to me indicates, it wasn't connected to the case at all.

 

[Adler]

There is a little canal in the area, when was it last cleaned before the search action?



I din't measure it out, but just by the eye, about 30-35 meters could fit.



12 inches = a few inches, so no problem there.
But I doubt, this was pre-terminal dig and-hide. It's given the other circumstances, like adrenaline, 60F and a good old fashioned drug induced paranoia, too near. We have to keep in mind, there were several effects working parallel and most of them would have been under these conditions good enough to kill her anyway.

If it had been a pre-terminal dig, the distances would certainly make sense: a couple hundred feet from edge of marsh, the clothes and belongings; one hundred feet more, a pre-terminal dig site, perhaps abandoned as she perhaps continued across the marsh. Peter, what is that little splotchy sand spot in Truth's picture?

I admit, I have no answer on that question. I didn't enlarge the photos and took them under the magnifying glass. So the distance to Anchor Way is to me an unknown factor. What I can conclude from those pictures is that they found that spot, looked at it, exchanged opinions and then left it alone. Which to me indicates, it wasn't connected to the case at all.

Not connected to the case excepting that their location is 100 feet from belongings?

 

[Emre E]

Fellows I don’t want to argue about shrub leaves being pushed by the wind of a S&R drone. When heat goes up three helicopters soar over the area. Shrub leaves? Kidding me? Have you ever stood under a Blackhawk? It literally rocks your world.

There are companies out there offering Search & Rescue services for disaster sites. Much messier than the OB marshes.

After all, what is to be looked for down in the area is a 5 feet tall dead girl, lying on top of the ground. (not in a burlap sack and actually there?)

The only limitation that could be considered is the strong wind, but there will be windows for a smooth operation, and a video/photography drone is not the only way to look for a missing person. This is just one of the possibilities I come up with.

The point I am trying to make is that Shannan was never sought decently.

For example, we all know about the August 2010 visit to Colletti. A detective knocks on Coletti's door in August and gets scolded by the old timer.

So? The outcome? What was the conclusion? Anyone has an idea?

August 2010 SG Case was closed.

The absurdity in search for Shannan is a big mystery that deserves an explanation.

Hawkshaw was bold enough to point the arrows on SCPD, so here's my version of the events.

The following is NOT TRUE just my imagination.

First of all, I don’t buy the "dog training" story.

Yes, cadaver dogs are trained, but in special facilities. You don’t just pick up body parts and go for a secluded place to train your dog.

I've read several pages on the net regarding the topic. Some trainers say they use their own blood. But this is not the regular training, it is more like "keep the dog warm" kind of exercise.

I believe John Malia's was neither a training nor an exercise.

Megan and especially Amber were placed very close to the road. Many motorists pick up the smell, even recognize it, a few call the police. But LE just can’t process the information.

Too lazy to look into it? Or perhaps they value the difference between the smell from a "decomposing human" and a "decomposing hooker". Who knows?

A bit of information from these calls somehow makes its way to John Malia. He puts two and two together and the inauspicious discovery is made.

Malia's knowledge should be limited to something like "A hooker gone missing in the area" and no wonder he has no clue about a serial killer. So, when Malia finds the first body on Dec 11th, he believes he found Shannan.

At this point, Malia had to be satisfied. There was a complaint of a smell and there's the body, circle is closed.

Although, he may have thought Melissa's skeletal remains and the reported pungency of the stench don’t perfectly click, Malia ends the search, reports the finding, Blue gets the cracker.

SCPD jumps on the report that "Shannan is found". How can we say this? Because detectives show up at the Gilbert house and tell them "We are hundred percent sure it is Shannan" (48 Hours).

Dude, we're not jokin' around we are talking with percentages.

The discovery explains everything, it makes perfect sense and clears SCPD from any blame. She's unimaginably 5 miles away from the spot where she's last seen. That is why SCPD couldn’t find her despite the "exhausting efforts."

Anger "brews" in Dormer. Now, it's time to get the murderer, they instantly get JB's SUV for impounding.
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...ch-Police-Need-Help-to-Make-ID-111812884.html

Everything goes for an SCPD success story. Except the body is not Shannan.

The jaw implant. Did they find it? Of course not. They don’t even know what they are looking for.

Spota writes the gap between Dec 11th and Dec 13th (2010) to rain. Could be. What I think is different.

At some point during the talks with the Gilbert family, the "implant" issue is discovered. A quick call is made, "Dudes, this girl we found has an implant?"

It should be a big oops moment, followed by a "Who's this then?"

Remember, still no one could have the idea about a serial killer.

One of the ways to answer "Who's this then?" question is to expand the search, hoping to find some clothing or better a purse with an ID in it. They do it and find three more bodies. Damn you Blue! Damn you Malia!

From that point on the GB4 discovery site becomes the best place to look for Shannan.

To tidy up the mess, they come up with the training story and "convince" John Malia to stick with it. Lucky for SCPD, Blue doesn’t talk.

Because if it's not "random training, it could turn to something like; SCPD = 1 Cop + 1 Dog + Donut Munchers.

There's a saying in my country, goes like this; "If you accidentally have an umbrella shoved up in the..., careful not to open it."

Now, it is December 2011, time to open the umbrella.

The success story started with Malia's discovery, winds up to be a nightmare.

Everybody knows, it is a great possibility that Shannan can be in the marshland, which was never thoroughly searched.

Shannan becomes the Angel sending four girls home. Was she murdered? Did she ever have her own burlap sack? I don't know.

 

[hawkshaw]

My nieces husband was questioned by two patrol officers when they found him in an isolated area in what the cops believed were unusual circumstances. This was miles away from the Gilgo Beach murders. He was actually feeding stray cats that live in the area he was questioned.

The cops were very diligent and asked him if he knew anything about the murders. He tells them that he frequently drives that stretch of land and he recalled smelling something foul somewhere along that area. He is handcuffed and his van is searched. They find all sorts of woman's clothing and a wig. They also found some ladies shoes. The clothes belong to my niece. The wig may have been used for a band he plays in.

When he goes home he starts thinking about what happened to him. He is insulted of the treatment he received. He went to the precinct and explored the idea of filing a complaint. He seems to get their attention. Nothing happens, and so he calls the precinct to find out what, if anything was done about his complaint. He is told if he doesn't watch his step his name is going to be sent to Homicide for investigation. Now he is really ticked off. The truth is his name should have been sent to homicide because he became a person of interest to at least two officers. I told them that. I told him the cops did a good job even though they seemed to be heavy handed in the way they treated him. I had the complaint dropped. Not that it was going to go anywhere, anyway.

I then called Steve Levy's office and informed him that everything was OK. Levy took immediate action and passed the complaint over to the police department.

 

[hawkshaw]

I have a friend working on a dock in Oceanside by the canal. A woman looks out her window and believes she sees him throwing something big in the water. The NCPD responded immediately. Aviation, patrol, ESU, Scuba, and detectives. The guy is held for 8 hours at the precinct for questioning and released.

The point of the story is that the cops do take most complaints seriously. This poor guy had to spend 8 hours under the 'lights' being grilled.

 

[hawkshaw]

BODIES THAT DISAPPEAR?

Thi guy I know had a friend, a 51 year old Chinese man : Sonny Sheu, or some variation of the name. Mr.Sheu made charges against a Queens Judge in that the judge and his wife swindled him out of his home. He was persistent in his claims. He went to the FBI and DA and got nowhere. Sheu said he was harassed by the DA.

He tells the DA and FBI that if he dies they should look to the judge for the answer. He makes a You-Tube video where he tells the viewers if I should die from mysterious circumstances it is the judge that had it done. The file is posted on the Internet as to the ME etc., He suddenly falls down and dies on a Queens street. The cops that first arrived tells my friend there appeared to be blunt force trauma. The ME doesn't agree. He says the fellow had a stroke. Any injuries to the head resulted from his fall.

The ME reported is amended to state the death was from unknown causes. And, then, according to my friend the body is improperly sent to NYC ME for further investigation.

The dead guy has family. My friend said they were never consulted, nor was he, Sheu's closest friend in the USA. The body is cremated, and that is the end of any further investigation into these real or imagined charges levied by my friend.

A poster commented on my post that Gilbert's family never asked for the body, Where he got that idea is a mystery to me. According to the news reports the lawyer for the family has requested the death certificate for shannan, and the release of her body the ME has now had for 8 months.

Read the 1989 NYS SIC Report regarding misconduct in Suffolk County. It seems the County had a ME that wasn't licensed to be a ME. I forget what the details of the investigation revealed. Business as usual in Suffolk County.

 

[hawkshaw]

Police Commissioner Dormer was the PC when all of this occurred. He was the PC when Shannan's body was found. He was relieved of his office when the new CE Bellone took office. His last day of work was 12/31/11. He did not retire, he was forced out.

 

[hawkshaw]

POLITICS AND BELLONE-Y.

Steve Levy was forced to withdraw his name for re-election after Spota and his Chief Investigator did an investigation of Levy for charges the DA has never told the public about. Levy is also forced to turn over more than 4M in his campaign war chest. Most experts claim such a action of the DA is illegal. Spota has never been forced to account for it.

When Levy is out of the race this opens a wide open door for Bellone to win the election. He wins in a landslide.

A few days before he takes office, Bellone goes public and says that Burke will be his new Chief of Department. Spota is excited for his once 14 year old witness that gave damaging testimony in the 1979 murder case of John Pius Jr.

While Bellone had no problem naming a new Chief of Dept before he assumed office, CE Bellone had a problem naming the new police commissioner. He turns that task over to a Blue Ribbon Panel chaired by LIA Director Kevin Law. Law conducts a nationwide search for a new commissioner that will lead the County into the 21st Century. 75 applicants applied, 11 were interviewed, Three names were sent to Bellone. One of those persons so sent to Bellone would be Chief Webber. Webber was named as Acting -Commissioner until a suitable person was named. When Webber was named A PC, the news reports said Webber was not interested in becoming the permanent PC. Webber, a 40 year veteran of the PD must have persuaded them: Spota/Burke/Bellone that he could work with Burke although Burke has a 'checkered career' while in the PD. Bellone had announced earlier that any candidate that wanted this job would like Burke. If they didn't they need not apply.

On this very day I write this post, or 6 months and 26 days later did Bellone name his new commissioner - Former chief/A PC Webber.

It is all BS, my fellow websleuths. Webber accepted Spota/

 

[hawkshaw]

.....Spota/Burkes/ Bellone's demands and he was named the Puppet Commissioner for SCPD.

 

[Seaslug44]

BODIES THAT DISAPPEAR?

Thi guy I know had a friend, a 51 year old Chinese man : Sonny Sheu, or some variation of the name. Mr.Sheu made charges against a Queens Judge in that the judge and his wife swindled him out of his home. He was persistent in his claims. He went to the FBI and DA and got nowhere. Sheu said he was harassed by the DA.

He tells the DA and FBI that if he dies they should look to the judge for the answer. He makes a You-Tube video where he tells the viewers if I should die from mysterious circumstances it is the judge that had it done. The file is posted on the Internet as to the ME etc., He suddenly falls down and dies on a Queens street. The cops that first arrived tells my friend there appeared to be blunt force trauma. The ME doesn't agree. He says the fellow had a stroke. Any injuries to the head resulted from his fall.

The ME reported is amended to state the death was from unknown causes. And, then, according to my friend the body is improperly sent to NYC ME for further investigation.

The dead guy has family. My friend said they were never consulted, nor was he, Sheu's clsest friend in the USA. The body is cremated, and that is the end of any further investigation into these real or imagined charges levied by my friend.

A poster commented on my post that Gilbert's family never asked for the body, Where he got that idea is a mystery to me. According to the news reports the lawyer for the family has requested the death certificate for shannan, and the release of her body the ME has now had for 8 months.

Read the 1989 NYS SIC Report regarding misconduct in Suffolk County. It seems the County had a ME that wasn't licensed to be a ME. I forget what the details of the investigation revealed. Business as usual in Suffolk County.

So sorry that the facts of this case have remained a mystery to you. It wasn't an "idea" but an actual fact of this case that I researched. Here is one of 27 reliable sources that I have found;

Ray asked the medical examiner to preserve Gilbert's body and perform more tests for drugs or poisons.

-MAY 1, 2012 quoting family attorney.

-Source

 

[Adler]

I am not sure exactly where her belongings were found, I would say the crane was within 100 feet of this spot, but I haven't done a proper analysis. All I know is LE really demolished Hackett's "conservation area" lol. I wonder if that pissed him off. I wonder if that tractor device crushed his bat houses like a bug. No light treading around back there.

*Note the image with the white sand was a google maps image that pre-dated the SCPD search of the area.

"how should we search the marsh boss?" - lackey

"bring in da bulldozer and really fak it up back dere, kanservation area huh, and watch ta see if it makes Fire Marshall Bill go ballistic.." - Dormer

See that black arrow superimposed on that first picture? The pointy end to the mysterious splotchy area. The blunt end is about where Shannan's belongings were found. 40.63964,-73.276287 The crane was sort of in the middle of these two points (again, refer to both ends of the black arrow in your photo)

If you look at the aerials of your splotchy patch of sand or disturbed earth, clicking back to google's 1994, and clicking forward, again, it looks like that is a water-logged spot, on some years a patch of water, certainly the vegetation on other google photos later looks different than immediate surroundings.

 

[Just K]

So sorry that the facts of this case have remained a mystery to you. It wasn't an "idea" but an actual fact of this case that I researched. Here is one of 27 reliable sources that I have found;

-MAY 1, 2012 quoting family attorney.

-Source

Wow, "preserve" her "body"...now that is a very interesting way to describe skeletal remains. It would make more sense if the remains had tissue on it re: testing for drugs, chemical compounds in her system, etc. Because, if the remains are entirely skeletal then what is there to preserve and what can be tested for that could have gotten there on May 1st, 2010.

 

[Justiceforever]

.....Spota/Burkes/ Bellone's demands and he was named the Puppet Commissioner for SCPD.

I think you have a lot of insight as to why these murders remain unsolved! If I were you Id watch my back though...it doesnt appear youare making any froends with your insode knowledge...if anything you are making quite a few enemies of some pretty powerful people...thats pretty scary! I applaude you for speaking out!