Shannan Gilbert Found, death declared an accident. What do you think?

[hawkshaw]

Who said it is ONLY ONE person that moved the bodies? Do you think there is an assumption that each of the 4 gals in the burlap wrapping were small because the killer needed to be able to pick them up?

A lot of foks are assuming that this is the work of a serial killer. lets not argue now about the defintion of what we commonly know as a serial killer.

 

[Peter Brendt]

Who said it is ONLY ONE person that moved the bodies? Do you think there is an assumption that each of the 4 gals in the burlap wrapping were small because the killer needed to be able to pick them up?

A lot of foks are assuming that this is the work of a serial killer. lets not argue now about the defintion of what we commonly know as a serial killer.

So, whoever it was, they let her phone 18 minutes with the police without stopping her. Then, knowing, thew police was already on the way, they murdered her ... oh wait, that isn't right ... first, they let her run away because Coletti saw her ... which means, Coletti has to be in the conspiracy, right ... so, they let her run, or killed her with the help of Coletti?
Now there are two scenarios ... either Coletti is not in on that dark Oak Beach conspiracy, then they let her run, and his testimony, he saw her running the direction into the thickets where she was found much later is true. Or Coletti is in on this mysterious Oak Beach Conspiracy. Then they had to kill her right after the phone call (wasn't the police out there later? Doesn't matter because the officers were definitively in on the conspiracy anyway, were they?). So they carried the body into the thicket. All of them, probably all of the brave people in Oak Beach. Must have looked like the witch procession of Salem, right? Oh wait, again wrong ... they stashed the body away, who cares about decomposition smell in Oak Beach. And months later, when the body was reduced to a mere skeleton, they called Dr. Temperance Brennan or one of the other top forensic anthropologists in the world to transport the body to an already searched area ... easy peasy, if the world's top elite of forensic anthropologists in on this Oak Beach Conspiracy ... or wait, maybe it was a world's top ten forensic pathologist, a man with an almost unbeatable knowledge about dead bodies and crimes ... why don't we arrest Dr. Michael Baden? Of course, it's not only done with transporting 206 bones. He would have done it without twisting any of the remaining tendons, he would have "adapted" the body to 1 1/2 worth of diatoma growth and prepared the ground under the body for example for higher nitrate levels. But hey, nothing is impossible in a good conspiracy.
And they all did it to do what? Oh yes, to cover for CPH, right? Makes one wonder, how CPH came into that game the first place. JB "invited" SG. Of course, MP didn't mention CPH was there, he is in on that conspiracy as well. And the police was there that night? They didn't mention CPH as well, but that's no miracle, they are all in on it, they are ALL in in IT ... (at this point, I feel like running out screaming) ...

But now serious, I am not a fan of guys throwing drug parties of any kind and then lean back if someone dies. So I am as interested to nail Brewer's rear to the wall as anybody and fine, if CPH covered up, nail him too. But please, for things, they did, not things, all logic says, they didn't. And stop these calls for shotgun justice. One says such a thing, and the next moron hears it and thinks, it's okay. The result of such violent talk has to often been a mess in the past.

Peter

 

[MrsPC]

this has probably been posted before...but who is the helpful neighbor who assisted police with the investigation and provided a color-coded map?

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/06/jersey_city_prostitute_still_m.html

The Star-Ledger retraced Gilbert’s path, walking in the dark and using a color-coded map provided by a neighbor who claims to have helped local Suffolk County police with the investigation. The neighbor requested anonymity for fear of compromising the case.

 

[To Kill a Mockingbird]

Who said it is ONLY ONE person that moved the bodies? Do you think there is an assumption that each of the 4 gals in the burlap wrapping were small because the killer needed to be able to pick them up?

A lot of foks are assuming that this is the work of a serial killer. lets not argue now about the defintion of what we commonly know as a serial killer.

per melissa cann's interview on the BRING THEM HOME NOW blog talk radio show of (wednesday, May 8?) she said that ALL the girls were 5 feet tall except Megan Waterman who was 5"5.

 

[Peter Brendt]

this has probably been posted before...but who is the helpful neighbor who assisted police with the investigation and provided a color-coded map?

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/06/jersey_city_prostitute_still_m.html

The Star-Ledger retraced Gilbert’s path, walking in the dark and using a color-coded map provided by a neighbor who claims to have helped local Suffolk County police with the investigation. The neighbor requested anonymity for fear of compromising the case.

Nice article. I noted, the length of the 911 call went in this one up to 23 minutes, but otherwise, it shows a nice chain of events. Not that I would believe every word. Okay, if SG looked that day like on the photo in that article, one may would have doubts about the gender, but that would have been an easy to figure out problem (by unpacking). However, one has to admit, she had on that photo a weird face, but well.
And there is exactly that chain of events: Out of Brewer's house, Coletti saw foirst SG, then Pak, her sweater (or was it a jacket, the article is ambivalent in that detail) was found down the road. And no miracle, why she suddenly turned away from going to lighted places into dark spots. In her mind, people were after her and wanted to kill her. She tried to hide. People hide in the dark, not in the light.
So, not much room left for any "Hell Beach Conspiracy" theory, I guess.

Peter

 

[Peter Brendt]

per melissa cann's interview on the BRING THEM HOME NOW blog talk radio show of (wednesday, May 8?) she said that ALL the girls were 5 feet tall except Megan Waterman who was 5"5.

Oh, in my mind is no doubt, LI has an SK, more likely two of them. However, in my mind is also no doubt, SG is unconnected.
We have two "main groups". One consists of the GB4. Female, Caucasian appearance, advertising themselves as Caucasians (read the article, MrsPC linked), wrapped in burlap, laid out along the expressway in almost constant distances. So, by definition, killing at least three (here we have four) in distinct events, that makes this one a SK. Add to that the creation of a drive-by re-visitable dump site, the timeline and the victimology per se, you have a nasty signature.
And then we have those women, who pop up literally "partially" in Manorville and on the Islands, from Jonas Beach to Gilgo and further down the expressway. At least three, over a long time, dismembering, spreading out the parts over a wide area, significant measures to make the torsos of JD6 and JT found soon including staging. That's an entirely different signature.
And looking at the victimology, you can see, the GB4 were Craigslist Escort's, JT was more the street corner type of prostitute. So an entirely different target group, which calls for a different hunting strategy.
However, SG doesn't fit in any of those groups. LISK, the killer of the GB4 would have stashed her away to his usual grave yard, because there it was, where he gathered his trophies, his victories. And Manorville Torso wouldn't left her behind in one piece. So, none of them.

Peter

 

[hawkshaw]

I want to begin by telling you I have no inside information. No one whispered in my ear. All that I know is what I read in the papers and on the Internet. The only advantage I may have over many of you is that I did this sort of thing in the last 10 years of my 29 years in the NYPD.

I also know that the detectives know a lot more about this case than I could even take a guess at. What I think I know is that what they think they know doesn’t mean they know it to a reasonable certainty.

What I also know, or think I know is that Dormer is an idiot. If his press conference was held after noon-time, then I suspect his faculties were severely diminished from outside sources.

IMO, there is no way on this Earth that Dormer could possibly know the four gals and SG are not connected. How could he possibly know that unless he knew who the killer(s) were?

What we do know with almost a certainty is that SG arrived at the Gilgo area as the result of an arrangement probably thru an Internet web site. We know now that she never left Gilgo. We also have reason to believe she was screaming out something like: Help me, help me, THEY are trying to kill me. Now she is dead.

We can also assume the idea her tight jeans came off from running through the weeds and brush is most unlikely.

We know that the other 4 victims responded to Internet advertisements at one time or another. At least three of them were last known to have been going out to meet a client. Two of them left their cell phones behind. As far as we know they went without hooking up with their pimp and got themselves killed. What made at least two of the gals leave their lifeline, their cell phone behind?

Do you believe it was a coincidence that after Dormer said the deaths aren’t connected the ME comes out and can’t find the cause of death for SG?

And why were those two idiots - Spota and Dormer bashing each other when no one really knows what happened. Truth is no matter how you spin it they just don’t know until they know, if they will ever know.

Why was Spota jumping into the case so early when the cops didn’t even have a suspect in tow? DA’s usually stay on the sidelines until they are needed.

The people sure have a strange way of doing things. Maybe there is a reason for their half cocked opinions.

 

[hawkshaw]

Nice article. I noted, the length of the 911 call went in this one up to 23 minutes, but otherwise, it shows a nice chain of events. Not that I would believe every word. Okay, if SG looked that day like on the photo in that article, one may would have doubts about the gender, but that would have been an easy to figure out problem (by unpacking). However, one has to admit, she had on that photo a weird face, but well.
And there is exactly that chain of events: Out of Brewer's house, Coletti saw foirst SG, then Pak, her sweater (or was it a jacket, the article is ambivalent in that detail) was found down the road. And no miracle, why she suddenly turned away from going to lighted places into dark spots. In her mind, people were after her and wanted to kill her. She tried to hide. People hide in the dark, not in the light.
So, not much room left for any "Hell Beach Conspiracy" theory, I guess.

Peter

SG just happened to go to a Killing Field and allegedly got hysterical. She does yell out : they are trying to kill me. What was the basis for her fears and her irrational behaviour? Maybe she knew something others didn't know.

Somebody out there KNOWS who killed those gals or believe they know, and are too afraid to come forward. Can you blame them?

If I leave the house without a cell phone I feel naked. It was liking going to work without your gun and shield. After you retire and put the shield away you still go into a panic when you touch your pocket and find it isn;t there. One of the gals, if not more 'left home' without it. They were arguably in one of the most dangerous professions in the world. We have to assume they were going to meet a stranger. If that person wasn't a stranger the cops should have identified that person by now.

Look, on this Board we are entitled to our own theories. This is what this type of Board is about - we play amatuer sleuths. If we are wrong, so what. But when a police commissioner can go public and make a definite statement that SG and the 4 others are not related, well, iMO that is pure BS.

 

[hawkshaw]

Let me give you an example how you don’t know until you know - for sure. I was working on a double homicide that was committed by the same person at two different locations for two different reasons. In that sense they weren’t related.

After the victims were identified it wasn’t hard to figure out who did it. Now we had to prove it. The investigation took me to the Kew Motor Inn. I went there and took 5 video tapes and played at least one of them. There the suspect was walking in the lobby which put him in the area to commit the homicides. I take the tape back to the precinct that was investigating the homicide and leave it on the desk for the LT, with a note. My role pretty much ends with that. We probably go on to a fresh homicide. The detectives in the 114 Pct are capable and competent to investigate this case.

I guess a year or so later I retire. I am kind of lazy. I just go into my locker and cubby hole and throw everything in a bag. The 4 other tapes are there and I take them home.

A year or so later my wife pages me. Call back and she tells me the FBI came to the house looking for me. Oh, my, gosh, what did I do that I forgot about. I go home and call the number on the card they left. They come back to the house. They want me to authenticate the tape……….I give a big pheeeeeeeew. Open the tape and play it for them. They tell me while it shows he was there near the time, it doesn’t firm it up to connect it to the shootings. They tell me the guy has an air-tight documented alibi that he was in Florida……If only I had him when and where they wanted him. Sorry, fellas. It is the best that I can do. They are in their car when I remember I have the other four tapes in my closet. Wait, wait, I found 4 more. BINGO. The guy goes down on a RICO for the two murders and an assortment of burglaries and other crimes he committed over the metropolitan area.

The POINT of the story is YOU DON’T KNOW UNTIL YOU REALLY KNOW. AND A POLICE COMMISSIONER SHOULD KNOW BETTER BEFORE HE HAS ROCK SOLID INFORMATION OF WHAT HE SAYS IS TRUE.

Remember that this IDIOT said SG probably drowned after she was trapped in some water in the weeds.

I am telling you there was a reason we may never know about why this moron said she was not connected and PROBABLY drowned.

 

[Adler]

Is the 911 emergency system in Suffolk County connected (shared/routed) to anybody in Oak Beach? Does Oak Beach have residents who volunteer their services in the event that a 911 call is pinged on their tower? Any medical or first-to-respond personnel in the Oak Beach gated community volunteering in that capacity? Finally, does anybody in the Oak Beach community possess a phone fetish that even he finds difficult to control?

 

[Adler]

Is the 911 emergency system in Suffolk County connected (shared/routed) to anybody in Oak Beach? Does Oak Beach have residents who volunteer their services in the event that a 911 call is pinged on their tower? Any medical or first-to-respond personnel in the Oak Beach gated community volunteering in that capacity? Finally, does anybody in the Oak Beach community possess a phone fetish that even he finds difficult to control?

 

[lieber32]

I want to begin by telling you I have no inside information. No one whispered in my ear. All that I know is what I read in the papers and on the Internet. The only advantage I may have over many of you is that I did this sort of thing in the last 10 years of my 29 years in the NYPD.

I also know that the detectives know a lot more about this case than I could even take a guess at. What I think I know is that what they think they know doesn’t mean they know it to a reasonable certainty.

What I also know, or think I know is that Dormer is an idiot. If his press conference was held after noon-time, then I suspect his faculties were severely diminished from outside sources.

IMO, there is no way on this Earth that Dormer could possibly know the four gals and SG are not connected. How could he possibly know that unless he knew who the killer(s) were?

What we do know with almost a certainty is that SG arrived at the Gilgo area as the result of an arrangement probably thru an Internet web site. We know now that she never left Gilgo. We also have reason to believe she was screaming out something like: Help me, help me, THEY are trying to kill me. Now she is dead.

We can also assume the idea her tight jeans came off from running through the weeds and brush is most unlikely.

We know that the other 4 victims responded to Internet advertisements at one time or another. At least three of them were last known to have been going out to meet a client. Two of them left their cell phones behind. As far as we know they went without hooking up with their pimp and got themselves killed. What made at least two of the gals leave their lifeline, their cell phone behind?

Do you believe it was a coincidence that after Dormer said the deaths aren’t connected the ME comes out and can’t find the cause of death for SG?

And why were those two idiots - Spota and Dormer bashing each other when no one really knows what happened. Truth is no matter how you spin it they just don’t know until they know, if they will ever know.

Why was Spota jumping into the case so early when the cops didn’t even have a suspect in tow? DA’s usually stay on the sidelines until they are needed.

The people sure have a strange way of doing things. Maybe there is a reason for their half cocked opinions.

As someone that works in Law Enforcement myself (civilian, sell police reports and do background check) you very well said what I have always thought regarding this case. What we know and what the public knows in any given case is often times very, very different. If you don't know a police report is the investigation of a case, in a simple car accident statments of the events that not if anything but soc and birthdays redaxed to open homicide cases just an incident without any narrative. I know what I know based on experience and can read between the lines on a lot of the cases covered on here and know I know nothing because I don't have access to those reports the same way I have in the jurisdiction I live in. Certain hints will lead me one way but I know without seeing the investigation I can be hundred percent wrong. Believe it or not almost all the major cases in my jurisdiction (homicides, fatal car accidents, etc) have been totally mis reported in local media that I don't rely on them as a credible source, not blaming as I know at times we can't give those involved very much. The way this case has been handled is also very suspect.

 

[Adler]

What types of lie detector tests exist? If a POI cannot take a standard lie detector test due to medications, are there any other alternatives? Can an ostensibly civic-minded POI alter his medication for a given length of time so that a lie detector test may subsequently eliminate him as a POI?

 

[Peter Brendt]

SG just happened to go to a Killing Field and allegedly got hysterical. She does yell out : they are trying to kill me. What was the basis for her fears and her irrational behaviour? Maybe she knew something others didn't know.

She yelled "they are trying to kill me" for at least 18 minutes without anyone trying to kill her. And actually, she was also seen alive by Coletti after she left Brewer's house.

Somebody out there KNOWS who killed those gals or believe they know, and are too afraid to come forward. Can you blame them?

Someone knows, fur sure the killer does. But someone pout there, as in Oak Beach? I doubt it. See, there are basically three kinds of SKs: The ones, who keep victims at their places (like Berdella, partilly Dahmer, Gacy). Then the remains are found IN their places. And the others bring the bodies away from where they live, sometimes up to hundred miles, but at least some miles (like Bundy, Ridgway, Rifkin). Some of those apply additional forensic counter measures. And then we have those, who leave the victims behind where they fall (like Zodiac, Berkowitz, Guatney).
So, yes, as former NYPD detective, you would know, such details were messed up by the NYPD in other SK cases, but seriously? Do you know one, only one, who transported victims to a mile off his home and created there his own graveyard? And please, don't come up with Corll now, he stashed half of his bodies at his boat shed, something about 18 miles away from his home, not at his home!

If I leave the house without a cell phone I feel naked. It was liking going to work without your gun and shield. After you retire and put the shield away you still go into a panic when you touch your pocket and find it isn;t there.

Take my apologies, but I don't want to go into the details telling this about your mindset. But as a matter of fact, there are people out there, who go out without cell phones. Personally, I admit to hate those things. Wherever I go, I see people blowing all the time 2W microwave in their brain. But you're right, those women used cell phones probably a lot.

One of the gals, if not more 'left home' without it. They were arguably in one of the most dangerous professions in the world. We have to assume they were going to meet a stranger. If that person wasn't a stranger the cops should have identified that person by now.

That's a bit jumpy, don't you think? First thing, if they actually were about to meet a stranger, they would have taken their phones. But as pimps, boyfriends and room mates (which seem to be euphemisms for all the same) stated: They went to johns, they knew, they felt comfortable with (except for MBB, we don't know there).
And probable LE has found some of those johns and found out, a.) not the same in all cases, b.) alibi. We don't hear too much about people cleared in the media, do we? Which, as former NYPD detective, should be known to you.

Look, on this Board we are entitled to our own theories. This is what this type of Board is about - we play amatuer sleuths. If we are wrong, so what. But when a police commissioner can go public and make a definite statement that SG and the 4 others are not related, well, iMO that is pure BS.

Well, Dormer never ever stated anything, that wasn't already known to the public because other people did already the math. So, given the long list of differences between SG and the GB4, he assumed, that was something, anybody knew anyway, so he throw that bone to the press. You were, according to your own words, a detective in NYC working that kind of cases (SK cases, I assume. I don't want to assume your 'such cases' from the post before this meant 'botched cases'). So you should know, how this kind of things with the media works. The dogs want some bones and you better give them a little something or they start to write what comes to their own mind. According to your own words, you have been there, so you should know best, right?

Peter

 

[Adler]

Was any cash found in Shannan Gilbert's pocketbook? If so, how much (or how little)? What happened to her laptop? Even though she advertised on Backpage, hadn't she previously posted on Craigslist? Did MP get paid for his services on the night of her disappearance? If not, could she have paid him for his services if JB refused to pay her for services not rendered? Might this have caused her to flee? Two+ hours is a long time for a driver to wait in a driveway for half pay. It's a long time for a john to decide he is turned off by a possible transvestite. It's ample time to mess with her mind and convince her that she may have cause to fear for her life--from everybody present, including her driver parked outside in the driveway.

 

[Peter Brendt]

Let me give you an example how you don’t know until you know - for sure. I was working on a double homicide that was committed by the same person at two different locations for two different reasons. In that sense they weren’t related.

After the victims were identified it wasn’t hard to figure out who did it. Now we had to prove it. The investigation took me to the Kew Motor Inn. I went there and took 5 video tapes and played at least one of them. There the suspect was walking in the lobby which put him in the area to commit the homicides. I take the tape back to the precinct that was investigating the homicide and leave it on the desk for the LT, with a note. My role pretty much ends with that. We probably go on to a fresh homicide. The detectives in the 114 Pct are capable and competent to investigate this case.

I guess a year or so later I retire. I am kind of lazy. I just go into my locker and cubby hole and throw everything in a bag. The 4 other tapes are there and I take them home.

A year or so later my wife pages me. Call back and she tells me the FBI came to the house looking for me. Oh, my, gosh, what did I do that I forgot about. I go home and call the number on the card they left. They come back to the house. They want me to authenticate the tape……….I give a big pheeeeeeeew. Open the tape and play it for them. They tell me while it shows he was there near the time, it doesn’t firm it up to connect it to the shootings. They tell me the guy has an air-tight documented alibi that he was in Florida……If only I had him when and where they wanted him. Sorry, fellas. It is the best that I can do. They are in their car when I remember I have the other four tapes in my closet. Wait, wait, I found 4 more. BINGO. The guy goes down on a RICO for the two murders and an assortment of burglaries and other crimes he committed over the metropolitan area.

The POINT of the story is YOU DON’T KNOW UNTIL YOU REALLY KNOW. AND A POLICE COMMISSIONER SHOULD KNOW BETTER BEFORE HE HAS ROCK SOLID INFORMATION OF WHAT HE SAYS IS TRUE.

Remember that this IDIOT said SG probably drowned after she was trapped in some water in the weeds.

I am telling you there was a reason we may never know about why this moron said she was not connected and PROBABLY drowned.

Now you confused me. So this guy went down on murder for RICO charges? Technically, as far as I understand it, the homicides are murder one or two, RICO is another (additional) beef.
And the chain of events you described has nothing similar with the procedures in homicide cases established in NYC since decades. Because there, the case detective should normally brief all others attached to the case at least all three days latest. And ... uh ... you had four tapes still in your locker? Wouldn't they go to evidence after you had them, to make them accessible to other detectives on the case, especially the lead detective?
Am I wrong, or is Amazon.com: Forensic Science University Package: Practical Homicide Investigation, Fourth Edition (9780849333033): Vernon J. Geberth: [email]Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com[/email]/images/I/51G61RZ1JKL.@@AMEPARAM@@51G61RZ1JKL book kind of a mandatory read for NYPD homicide?
But then, maybe NYPD does things different. Which would explain the following article, would it? NYPD solved 59% of 2009 slayings So, who knows, who has tapes in a locker which technically belong in evidence?
And those tapes were from the Kew Motor Inn? The one in Jamaica/NY? Didn't know they have even cameras then. The place has some reputation as Hooker's Heaven and I doubt, security cams are good for the business.

As I said, I am confused. But you were there and did that, so maybe you can enlighten me why your story is so different from all the "official" procedures?

Peter

 

[hawkshaw]

MR.BRENDT: l LOT of great questions that I will have to go off-line and try and answer. Lots of things happen in ALL police departments that violate procedure. Most happen by accident.

NYPD Homicide does not even remotely resemble NCPD and SCPD Homicide. Frankly, I think they do it better than we do, but on the other hand they don't nearly have the volume we do. In NYPD the 'Homicide' units act as a support team for the precinct detectives. If push comes to shove it is the precinct detective and his/her boss that runs the investigation. Truth of the matter is in the NYPD most 'homicide' units in the Boro commands were known as Task Forces. Some were called Homicide Task Forces.

Some time in the mid-1980's the PD decided to call us HOMICIDE. They split our office into two sections: about 1/3 remained the TF, the remainder was called Homicide. We received two separate pay envelopes. Nothing changed. The phone was always answered: Det ____, Homicide.

In Queens there are 15 different precincts. The relationships between the homicide unit and the precinct detectives were as varied as the numbers, the particular detectives, etc., etc. The role of the Homicide Det. was dependant on who you are and what the precinct detectives were. Some precinct detective squads had at least a two man team to handlehomicide cases. It was a hodge podge of scenarios.

In the 75 Pct there was a dedicated team of detectives that handled homicides. I recall they had at least 6 detectives and a supervisor doing their cases on an in-house basis. They rarely called Brooklyn North Homicide to assist them.

If a case was a highly publicized case the precinct detectives got us no matter how they felt about us. It was not a pleasant atmosphere to work under. Other times those that really didn;t want us had to take our help because their was too much work to do for a couple of detectives to handle on their own.

In 10 years being assigned to homicide I was only called in once in the early hours to assist in a homicide case. And that was a quintuple homicide in the 111 Pct. And we put it down in less than 24 hours. That was a ground ball from the getgo, but it had to be addressed immediately. We 'solved' that case so quickly because the killer went over the border into Nassau and held a doctor and his wife hostage. NCPD had the task of solving that issue. We assisted with our ESU and negotiators. We lent them our robot. The killer 'shot and killed the robot. We caught it on the robot's camera. Then he killed himself.

In the case I mentioned I had the tape. I wasn't going to continue on the case and so I left it for the precinct detective commander to take it to where he wanted. I didn't consider it evidence at the time, only informational.

The double homicide was solved by the FBI with their RICO case. Good enough for NYPD to close it with an Exceptional Clearance. Which was good enough for us.

 

[hawkshaw]

Back 19 years ago I was in the transistion of retiring. I was what they called: terminal leave. One day when going home in Nassau County I saw a lot of police activity a few blocks from my home.. I live in a very quiet almost crime free neighborhood. As a former cop I had my understandable curiosity. I went to where the cops were congregating and saw a lot of detectives hanging around an older Mercedes Benz car. I knew the precinct detective commander. Homicide was there, too. I knew it for what it was ; an OC dump job. Nobody had to tell me. I also knew other things they didn't know. I went to the supervisor and asked him what he had. He told me there was a wiseguy in the trunk of the car. I only asked him where the car came from: He said it was registered in Ridgewood, NY. I asked him if he wanted to know who killed the guy!!! I told him who did it and where they might find the guy who did it. The supervisor knew I was on the money. NC Homicide scoffed at my suggestion. But they did go to the house I told them to go and they found the door wide open and the lawn mower running and no one there.

The cops found a witness. He would later refuse to cooperate. The FEDS were doing a RICO on the crime crew. They solved it via a RICO. Another case closed, which, I suspect satisfied the ends of justice.

 

[hawkshaw]

I was involved in an ‘investigation’ that wasn’t meant to be an investigation into a crime. Let us just call it an incident. It was very serious. My partner and I go out and do the usual thing they do in this sort of investigation. There was at least 20 other detectives on the case. We go into an apartment building overlooking the incident scene and start knocking on the doors. We find two children no older than 10 that had a bird’s eye view of what happened while they were standing on their 5th floor(?) patio.

The children could only tell us what they saw. They had no idea as to who was who. Why they were there, and why the victim was shot. They simply gave us a version of what they saw. It was a homicide, pure and simple. I was compelled to write up a report. I wasn’t happy I had to do that. I typed up the report and made reference to it to a supervisor. This was going to be bad.

In NYPD the reports are supposed to be numbered and indexed. That chore falls to the precinct detective that is assigned the case. The boss wanted to get a handle on it as the reports were stacking up real fast. I got the task of putting it in some order. That meant I had to look at each report. My report was MIA. I brought this to the attention of a uniformed captain. To this day I don’t know why he was in the detective squad room other than being curious. He really had no role in this investigation, as a witness, or anything else. He told me due to the ages of the witnesses I interviewed their statements were not credible.

Why were they protecting this person? It wasn’t because he was connected. It really had to do with an event that was going to take place the day after. It was like throwing gasoline on a fire. The criminal got a free pass and he clearly murdered an innocent white man with no family and no one to scream out loud why was he murdered.

I guess the point I am trying to make is that the police reports are only as good as the person that writes them and the supervisors that edit them.

What I know happened is the powers that be squashed this case, not because they covered up for a killer, because there was a very hot poltical matter that was going to It was MADE to order for a political firestorm. It had to go. A killer went free because of that.

 

[Adler]

this has probably been posted before...but who is the helpful neighbor who assisted police with the investigation and provided a color-coded map?

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/06/jersey_city_prostitute_still_m.html

The Star-Ledger retraced Gilbert’s path, walking in the dark and using a color-coded map provided by a neighbor who claims to have helped local Suffolk County police with the investigation. The neighbor requested anonymity for fear of compromising the case.

Hello MsPC, and the other sleuthers on this forum. I am a latecomer here, and bring neither professional expertise to your discussions nor working knowledge of Oak Beach and its salt or freshwater marshes, etc.; however, I am sure I share your compassion and sympathy for Mari Gilbert and her family and your desire to get to the bottom of what happened. I started reading your forums after Erin Moriarty's 48 Hours aired. As I live in CA, I wondered about the timeline given, and the environment around Anchor Way leading down to Larboard Ct.

Although I initially had difficulty logging into this group, I must say how much I have appreciated reading the various opinions, thoughts, links, and hypotheses albeit varied. I am sure I speak for those who still are unable to register and log onto your forum as well.

A week before May 1 of this year, during a week-long break from my own work, I called Charles Hannon and suggested that given the speculation about whether or not Shannan ran into the marsh area, to recreate her steps, via a person of her approximate height and strength, and begin at the corner of Anchor and Bayou, just around the corner from Laboard, to see if it were possible to do so.

If Shannan placed her first 911 call at 4:51, Coletti placed his at 5:23. The neighbor who would like to remain anonymous placed hers thereafter. Did she place her call at 5:50? Isn't that sunrisetime on Oak Beach? Figure out what time it was that she dropped her jacket on the intersections of Anchor, Bayou, and Larboard and see if you can retrace starting through the brambles just as the morning sky blushes pale blue. See if anybody running in that direction can first get through the brambles to the marsh, and if so, look closely to see if they ever encounter terrain that might make one drown.

If, on the other hand, it is determined that it is impossible to get through the brambles, have said person continue down Anchor Way toward Larboard Ct. What is there? Any other access to the marsh?

If Mari Gilbert is on this thread, my heart goes out to you and yours. Stay strong. Know that many silent readers of your story and frustration have you in their hearts and minds. If Charles Hannon is on this thread, thank you for returning my phone call three weeks ago, and for all the good work that you do.