Shannan Gilbert's 23 Minute 911 Call #2

[Ruminations]

Took a while away from this case but circled back, especially since I live very close to where Shannan was found. I listened to the call 50+ more times and keep coming to the same conclusion.

She wasnt whispering like someone sneaking away to make a 911 call

Compare her call to the one that lead to Sean grate's arrest. Listen to this poor women's tone, volume and real fear.

Nor was she screaming frantically or specifically saying what happened or what she saw. She didnt say for example knife, gun, taser, rope, they choked me . Nothing specific.. After she got put through to state police she said "there's somebody after me" 2x. She's asked "where are you " she repeats "there somebody after me asked again "where are you mam".... after a 5 second pause she says again "there's somebody after me".. that doesn't sound like someone who's fully aware of what's going on or in fight or flight mode.



I think brewer originally called her in as entertainment no sex needed, because that's cheaper. Then after some drugs and alcohol tried to push for sex maybe without wanting to pay more. When shannon wasn't about she started calling pak to end the date and maybe brewer said get the <modsnip - profanity>out or ill kill you and it made something snap in her head. I'm not saying he's a good guy I'm sure he's talked down to his fair share of sex workers. He honestly sounds like the just about every middle aged rich divorced long island dad I ever heard. The get off my lawn types instead "get out if my house" , for him. He sounds like he's trying some reverse psychology saying "we will all go outside together" in hopes that shannon agrees. He seems to try stand her up she resists. He offers to get lost by going upstairs. He figures if he's out of the room, she will be less aggravated and pak can calm her down and get her out. Pak tells her let's go and she kept saying no. Then a few mins later she starts asking him to go. Saying, "please get me out of here, mike". "I'm begging you now.... I just want to go home". Pak says "let's go" "let's go home" but she doesn't get up to go. Yes, she didn't know the address but that's not proof that she never knew it. She also didn't give her age when the dispatchers asked her. She knows her age but maybe forgot that also.

If someone was outside why didn't they catch her when she ran out to colleti's? If someone was after her why didn't she stay at the saftey of the colleti's. Even he says to her "wait a minute ,where are going, what are you doing"? Between him, pak, brewer and the 2 dispatchers that's 5 people that seemed confused by Shannon's behavior that night.

If Pak took her there to be murdered why would he stick around parked outside for 3 hours and risk be seen by witnesses and the secne? If he was part of some murder ring and shannon "got away" he would have went away or lawyered up. Not go back the next day looking for someone who's now a potential witness.

I think Shannas unfortunate death coincidentally lead to the bodies of a real serial killer. Due to our investigative natures (we are on websleuths for a reason after all) many believe she was also a murder victim. Prior to the 911 call being released I would have bet the house on it. After listening to the call probably hundreds of times at this point I cannot come to that conclusion.

As for the missing bone, after 19 months in the elements. Snow, heat, rainstorms, high tides. Hell 3 months before SG body was found we got hit with the remnants of hurricane irene. 400k ppl lost power from wind and rain. The area where SG was found got clobbered during the storm.
Before anyone points to the second autopsy at least quote it correctly.

"Baden said the evidence was consistent with homicidal strangulation, but insufficient to release an official cause of death."

There's no such thing as kinda pregnant.

Well, what is your theory then, for why Shannan dialed at all?

(To be very clear, I do not agree with the theory that Shannan was acting irrationally. We have proof that she wasn't. On the phone she is rational and clear. I disagree with your analysis, and think she only sounds irrational to people who refuse to believe that she was in danger, no matter how much evidence there is that she was in danger.)

But, what is your theory? That she was being irrational? Then, why did Brewer or Pak not call 911 themselves and say there is a psychiatric emergency? How do Pak or Brewers behavior on the phone make sense? Why do neither of them refute that she is in danger or state that they will protect her? The closest Pak comes is ignoring her statement and saying let's go back to Manhattan. He doesn't even say, "Part of what?" When Shannan accuses him of being in an a plot against her. Pak ignores her question when she asks him why he is using Shannan instead of her work name. These weird behaviors of Pak are not explained by claiming Shannan was being irrational.

Shannan's behavior is only "confusing" if you refuse to believe the obvious. Someone was trying to harm her. If anyone tries to pretend harm was not imminent, that's when the 911 call sounds funny. Assume that something was scary outside of Brewers house, and it all makes perfect sense.

If a person tries to pretend that nobody was trying to harm Shannan, all of the players behaviors stop making sense. The most irrational behavior (assuming no one was trying to harm Shannan) was the behavior of Brewer. He kept trying to cajole her into leaving with him, and she wouldn't go. Those are the behaviors of someone trying to deliver a woman outside to danger, not the behaviors of someone trying to get an overstaying woman outside of his house. He owned the house. He had all the power to tell her, leave or I'll call 911. He knew she was on the phone with 911. Why didn't he just blurt out his address, and say, come take her out of here? Especially if Shannan was behaving irrationally. Tell the police that she doesn't live there and you want her out!

Pak didn't make any sense, either. Why was he calling Shannan her real name? Why was he chasing her, then why did he leave before the police arrived? He knew she was on the phone with 911, which is why he kept emphasizing that going back would be to Manhattan, not across any state lines. The more rational thing for Pak to do if he was not trying to deliver Shannan someplace, or not trying to harm her, if he directly did, would be to leave the minute he had his money. Why go through all the drama? He could have told her to take the train back, or pay him again if he has to drive back to pick her up. If he truly thought she was acting irrationally, why not call an ambulance? He knew she was on the phone with 911. He could have said, she might need to see a doctor and given an address.

And, where was Shannan's earnings? No natural cause death makes cash disappear from your wallet. Baden examined what was left of Shannan's body. But the biggest clue that makes it obvious she was murdered is the 911 call. Her pants being removed. Her missing money. The location of her body compared to the location of her empty wallet.

We know that there was a resistance to solving LISK for some reason. Part of the effort was in mischaracterizing the contents of the 911 call, and refusing to release it for a ludicrous reason. (It was an ongoing investigation, but no foul play? Huh? What is being investigated then?) But the call is out now, and there is no doubt it depicts a sincerely terrified woman reporting that she is about to be harmed, and she promptly was harmed.

Shannan sounds completely terrified on the call, then she is dead. She sounds exhausted, but she has the presence of mind to try to calm the men around her. She thought it would be possible to trace her call. If she were right, the call could have saved her life. And where is the normal distress about THAT? If anyone in LE really believes she died of natural causes, why haven't they at least said, gosh, if we only knew where she was calling 911 from,she wouldn't have drowned. Why didn't Pak say, if I hadn't left, she wouldn't have drowned? Frankly, the response to her death all around is suspicious. Does nobody care that she died, even if they refuse to believe someone was trying to harm her?

MOO

 

[snarast]

It could be that the fact that she was on the 911 call was the reason she stayed alive. For another hour or so (at best).

 

[LongIsland731]

So why do you think Shannan didn't want to leave?

Drug fuel physcosis + alcohol + bipolar breakdown. These things are real and happened to people every day. Same reason she didn't give dispatch the most basic question someone could ask, her age. There's a reason its one of the first things they ask someone after waking up from surgery or a head injury. To make sure they are all there.

 

[Ruminations]

Drug fuel physcosis + alcohol + bipolar breakdown. These things are real and happened to people every day. Same reason she didn't give dispatch the most basic question someone could ask, her age. There's a reason its one of the first things they ask someone after waking up from surgery or a head injury. To make sure they are all there.

Those things don't cause people to get separated from their money or their pants.

And, frankly, Shannan's behavior on the phone is not at all irrational. She is oriented x3.

The irrational actors are Pak and Brewers narratives. Their actions don't make any sense unless they are trying to harm Shannan or are knowingly allowing her to be harmed. Why did neither of them call 911 or give the address while they obviously knew Shannan had called?

Your theory is a medical emergency. (You claim interaction of drugs, alcohol and psychosis. Shannan did not have a history of psychosis of which I'm aware, and the Dx you mentioned doesn't imply psychosis.) I don't agree that there was a medical emergency going on, but if there were, Pak and Brewer were not al all acting like normal people facing a medical emergency. If not 911, why not call Peter Hackett? The SCPD officer that lived in the development?

Shannan knew she didn't know the address, but believed the dispatcher would be able to trace her call. Nothing is psychotic about that. She knew she was working and should be called by her working name, but Pak called her "Shannan." Nothing psychotic about that.

MOO

 

[LongIsland731]

Well, what is your theory then, for why Shannan dialed at all?

(To be very clear, I do not agree with the theory that Shannan was acting irrationally. We have proof that she wasn't. On the phone she is rational and clear. I disagree with your analysis, and think she only sounds irrational to people who refuse to believe that she was in danger, no matter how much evidence there is that she was in danger.)

But, what is your theory? That she was being irrational? Then, why did Brewer or Pak not call 911 themselves and say there is a psychiatric emergency? How do Pak or Brewers behavior on the phone make sense? Why do neither of them refute that she is in danger or state that they will protect her? The closest Pak comes is ignoring her statement and saying let's go back to Manhattan. He doesn't even say, "Part of what?" When Shannan accuses him of being in an a plot against her. Pak ignores her question when she asks him why he is using Shannan instead of her work name. These weird behaviors of Pak are not explained by claiming Shannan was being irrational.

Shannan's behavior is only "confusing" if you refuse to believe the obvious. Someone was trying to harm her. If anyone tries to pretend harm was not imminent, that's when the 911 call sounds funny. Assume that something was scary outside of Brewers house, and it all makes perfect sense.

If a person tries to pretend that nobody was trying to harm Shannan, all of the players behaviors stop making sense. The most irrational behavior (assuming no one was trying to harm Shannan) was the behavior of Brewer. He kept trying to cajole her into leaving with him, and she wouldn't go. Those are the behaviors of someone trying to deliver a woman outside to danger, not the behaviors of someone trying to get an overstaying woman outside of his house. He owned the house. He had all the power to tell her, leave or I'll call 911. He knew she was on the phone with 911. Why didn't he just blurt out his address, and say, come take her out of here? Especially if Shannan was behaving irrationally. Tell the police that she doesn't live there and you want her out!

Pak didn't make any sense, either. Why was he calling Shannan her real name? Why was he chasing her, then why did he leave before the police arrived? He knew she was on the phone with 911, which is why he kept emphasizing that going back would be to Manhattan, not across any state lines. The more rational thing for Pak to do if he was not trying to deliver Shannan someplace, or not trying to harm her, if he directly did, would be to leave the minute he had his money. Why go through all the drama? He could have told her to take the train back, or pay him again if he has to drive back to pick her up. If he truly thought she was acting irrationally, why not call an ambulance? He knew she was on the phone with 911. He could have said, she might need to see a doctor and given an address.

And, where was Shannan's earnings? No natural cause death makes cash disappear from your wallet. Baden examined what was left of Shannan's body. But the biggest clue that makes it obvious she was murdered is the 911 call. Her pants being removed. Her missing money. The location of her body compared to the location of her empty wallet.

We know that there was a resistance to solving LISK for some reason. Part of the effort was in mischaracterizing the contents of the 911 call, and refusing to release it for a ludicrous reason. (It was an ongoing investigation, but no foul play? Huh? What is being investigated then?) But the call is out now, and there is no doubt it depicts a sincerely terrified woman reporting that she is about to be harmed, and she promptly was harmed.

Shannan sounds completely terrified on the call, then she is dead. She sounds exhausted, but she has the presence of mind to try to calm the men around her. She thought it would be possible to trace her call. If she were right, the call could have saved her life. And where is the normal distress about THAT? If anyone in LE really believes she died of natural causes, why haven't they at least said, gosh, if we only knew where she was calling 911 from,she wouldn't have drowned. Why didn't Pak say, if I hadn't left, she wouldn't have drowned? Frankly, the response to her death all around is suspicious. Does nobody care that she died, even if they refuse to believe someone was trying to harm her?

MOO

Why did My friends cousin called the cops and tell them armed intruders were breaking i to his house only for them to find out none of that was true and they arrested him for the cocaine that was all over his kitchen counter.

Linked below is a study on that.

Fifty-three percent (29/55) of those interviewed reported experiencing transient cocaine-induced psychosis. There was no significant difference in lifetime amount of cocaine use or amount of cocaine use in the month before admission between those who experienced psychosis and those who did not.

Cocaine-induced psychosis - PubMed

Cocaine-induced paranoia is a common experience among chronic users. Amount and duration of use are related to its development. Implications for a kindling model of cocaine-induced psychosis will be discussed.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Idk where The notion that pak or brewer would just call 911 for a sex worker is coming from. Brewer was a rich divorced middle aged long island scum bag. Definitely not his first or 100th time using the services of a sex worker. He lives in a gated community. Why would he call the police in the middle of the night to remove a 110 pound women who wasn't physically attacking him? Have the cops show up to his plush neighborhood while he's got drugs all over and paying for sex. On top of being ILLEGAL it would be embarrassing to explain to the neighbors.

Why would pak, who's a convicted felon with an ILLEGAL gun, whos ILLEGALLY, driving around a sex worker call the cops on a non threatening 110 pound woman? To get himself thrown in jail for said gun? Likley for a very long time since pistol possession by a felon is a serious crime in ny?

Laws had to be passed just to encourage people to call 911 for the overdosing FRIENDS AND FAMILY. To this day people will leave others to die thinking they will get in trouble if they call their friend an ambulance. The notion that some scum bag john and what amounts to a pimp basically cared enough to call 911 for Shanna when she wasn't even passed out is absured. Stop thinking like a rational law abiding citizens and put yourself in their shoes even for one second.

Something snapped. Brewer was probably asking her to leave she ran into a room called 911 and he went to get pak to get her to leave. Thr first thing brewer says to pak when to get back to her is talk to her. She didnt say these guys are trying to kill me in holed up in a room please hurry, like any normal person who was really about to be killed would have. She asks brewer/pak to shut the door. Does that sound like soemthing a person who truly believes they are about to be murdered asks their killer? Pak never mentions state lines so idk where you got that from. When he starts insinuating that he's leaving and she has to "find your own ride" she tells him "mile come here" doesn't sound like someone who truly thinks pak is going to kill her.

She didnt say for example knife, gun, taser, rope, they choked me . Nothing specific. After she got put through to state police she said "there's somebody after me" 2x. She's asked "where are you " she repeats "there somebody after me asked again "where are you mam".... after a 5 second pause she says again "there's somebody after me".. that doesn't sound like someone who's fully aware of what's going on or in fight or flight mode.

Pak tells her let's go and she kept saying no. Then a few mins later she starts asking him to go. Saying, "please get me out of here, mike". "I'm begging you now.... I just want to go home". Pak says "let's go" "let's go home" but she doesn't get up to go.

In no way is that presence of mind or trying to calm the men around her down. She couldn't even say her age for christ sake. If she was willing to say there's somebody after me, and she was in the right state of mind, which she's evidently not, she for sure could have stated her age. That's basic information anyone in the right state of mind could provide the police. They didn't ask her to solve a math equation.

As far as her earnings you're assuming she put the money inside her wallet. For all we know she could have put the money anywhere on her (inside a bra, in a pocket) and after 19 months and a hurricane later it was gone. Bills only weigh a gram a peice its not like he paid her on silver kilos. I live minutes away from where she was found we had hurricane sandy go through there after Shannan went missing a lot of things went flying, and missing as per usual for a storm like that.

 

[Ruminations]

Why did My friends cousin called the cops and tell them armed intruders were breaking i to his house only for them to find out none of that was true and they arrested him for the cocaine that was all over his kitchen counter.

Linked below is a study on that.

Fifty-three percent (29/55) of those interviewed reported experiencing transient cocaine-induced psychosis. There was no significant difference in lifetime amount of cocaine use or amount of cocaine use in the month before admission between those who experienced psychosis and those who did not.

Cocaine-induced psychosis - PubMed

Cocaine-induced paranoia is a common experience among chronic users. Amount and duration of use are related to its development. Implications for a kindling model of cocaine-induced psychosis will be discussed.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Idk where The notion that pak or brewer would just call 911 for a sex worker is coming from. Brewer was a rich divorced middle aged long island scum bag. Definitely not his first or 100th time using the services of a sex worker. He lives in a gated community. Why would he call the police in the middle of the night to remove a 110 pound women who wasn't physically attacking him? Have the cops show up to his plush neighborhood while he's got drugs all over and paying for sex. On top of being ILLEGAL it would be embarrassing to explain to the neighbors.

Why would pak, who's a convicted felon with an ILLEGAL gun, whos ILLEGALLY, driving around a sex worker call the cops on a non threatening 110 pound woman? To get himself thrown in jail for said gun? Likley for a very long time since pistol possession by a felon is a serious crime in ny?

Laws had to be passed just to encourage people to call 911 for the overdosing FRIENDS AND FAMILY. To this day people will leave others to die thinking they will get in trouble if they call their friend an ambulance. The notion that some scum bag john and what amounts to a pimp basically cared enough to call 911 for Shanna when she wasn't even passed out is absured. Stop thinking like a rational law abiding citizens and put yourself in their shoes even for one second.

Something snapped. Brewer was probably asking her to leave she ran into a room called 911 and he went to get pak to get her to leave. Thr first thing brewer says to pak when to get back to her is talk to her. She didnt say these guys are trying to kill me in holed up in a room please hurry, like any normal person who was really about to be killed would have. She asks brewer/pak to shut the door. Does that sound like soemthing a person who truly believes they are about to be murdered asks their killer? Pak never mentions state lines so idk where you got that from. When he starts insinuating that he's leaving and she has to "find your own ride" she tells him "mile come here" doesn't sound like someone who truly thinks pak is going to kill her.

She didnt say for example knife, gun, taser, rope, they choked me . Nothing specific. After she got put through to state police she said "there's somebody after me" 2x. She's asked "where are you " she repeats "there somebody after me asked again "where are you mam".... after a 5 second pause she says again "there's somebody after me".. that doesn't sound like someone who's fully aware of what's going on or in fight or flight mode.

Pak tells her let's go and she kept saying no. Then a few mins later she starts asking him to go. Saying, "please get me out of here, mike". "I'm begging you now.... I just want to go home". Pak says "let's go" "let's go home" but she doesn't get up to go.

In no way is that presence of mind or trying to calm the men around her down. She couldn't even say her age for christ sake. If she was willing to say there's somebody after me, and she was in the right state of mind, which she's evidently not, she for sure could have stated her age. That's basic information anyone in the right state of mind could provide the police. They didn't ask her to solve a math equation.

As far as her earnings you're assuming she put the money inside her wallet. For all we know she could have put the money anywhere on her (inside a bra, in a pocket) and after 19 months and a hurricane later it was gone. Bills only weigh a gram a peice it's not like he paid her on silver kilos. I live minutes away from where she was found we had hurricane sandy go through there after Shannan went missing a lot of things went flying, and missing as per usual for a storm like that.

Police need a warrant. Drugs and guns are easily pushed out of plain view. Nobody sounded too wasted to handle that simple task. Nobody has to mention buying or selling sex. Brewer had only to say to the police that he did invite her in but he now wants her to go and she won't. Maybe the sex trade activity would be obvious to the police. But not actionable. Even if Shannan said she broke the law and sold him sex (why would she do that?), Brewer could just say she's lying. No department is going to put a detective on that case to catch a John.

We hear Shannan on the phone. She is not having a psychotic episode. She is of sound mind. She knows she does not know where she is, and she thought the phone call could be traced.

She wasn't specific, but bad things were really happening, and she ended up murdered. On the other hand, you apparently know of someone who was in fact having a psychotic episode, and they WERE specific about an armed break in. So it appears specificity did not mean credibility in the example you gave.

Now, there is absolutely no reason to bring in possible causes of psychosis when there is no evidence of psychosis. But, for the record, there is no evidence she used cocaine that night. It's not a stretch that she or others had, but it has not been out as information. If she did use cocaine, per her behavior on the phone, it did not cause psychosis.

Shannan was not psychotic during the phone call, and for all I know never in her life had she had a psychotic episode. But, what if she were having any kind of medical emergency? Theoretically, Pak and Shannan were friends. At least work associates. What kind of person fails to get medical help for someone they know if they are having a medical emergency?

Let me answer my own question. This is who fails to call for help in any kind of emergency: a person who is causing the emergency or is allowing someone else to cause the emergency.

Clearly, Pak and Brewer were causing the emergency that led Shannan to call 911, or they were allowing someone else to create the emergency. They did nothing to help.

MOO

 

[LongIsland731]

Police need a warrant. Drugs and guns are easily pushed out of plain view. Nobody sounded too wasted to handle that simple task. Nobody has to mention buying or selling sex. Brewer had only to say to the police that he did invite her in but he now wants her to go and she won't. Maybe the sex trade activity would be obvious to the police. But not actionable. Even if Shannan said she broke the law and sold him sex (why would she do that?), Brewer could just say she's lying. No department is going to put a detective on that case to catch a John.

We hear Shannan on the phone. She is not having a psychotic episode. She is of sound mind. She knows she does not know where she is, and she thought the phone call could be traced.

She wasn't specific, but bad things were really happening, and she ended up murdered. On the other hand, you apparently know of someone who was in fact having a psychotic episode, and they WERE specific about an armed break in. So it appears specificity did not mean credibility in the example you gave.

Now, there is absolutely no reason to bring in possible causes of psychosis when there is no evidence of psychosis. But, for the record, there is no evidence she used cocaine that night. It's not a stretch that she or others had, but it has not been out as information. If she did use cocaine, per her behavior on the phone, it did not cause psychosis.

Shannan was not psychotic during the phone call, and for all I know never in her life had she had a psychotic episode. But, what if she were having any kind of medical emergency? Theoretically, Pak and Shannan were friends. At least work associates. What kind of person fails to get medical help for someone they know if they are having a medical emergency?

Let me answer my own question. This is who fails to call for help in any kind of emergency: a person who is causing the emergency or is allowing someone else to cause the emergency.

Clearly, Pak and Brewer were causing the emergency that led Shannan to call 911, or they were allowing someone else to create the emergency. They did nothing to help.

MOO

Police dont need a warrant if you ask then to go inside your house and remove someone which is what you are saying brewer would have done. You seem to live a very clean life which is awesome. These people don't. Pak doesn't see shannan as a work associate. Hes a street criminal with a record assisting in the sales of sex while packing a pistol. This isn't you and your work buddy type of situation. Plus is pak or brewer were involved why would she ask them to "please close the door" that doesn't make any sense at all. Nor would they talk to the police. Pak did a voluntary lie detector test which he passed. So you can tell he's lying in the call but the police with many experts and a lie detector test couldn't? Anyone criminal ever knows you dont talk to the police, especially if you are involved.

 

[Ruminations]

Police dont need a warrant if you ask then to go inside your house and remove someone which is what you are saying brewer would have done. You seem to live a very clean life which is awesome. These people don't. Pak doesn't see shannan as a work associate. Hes a street criminal with a record assisting in the sales of sex while packing a pistol. This isn't you and your work buddy type of situation. Plus is pak or brewer were involved why would she ask them to "please close the door" that doesn't make any sense at all. Nor would they talk to the police. Pak did a voluntary lie detector test which he passed. So you can tell he's lying in the call but the police with many experts and a lie detector test couldn't? Anyone criminal ever knows you dont talk to the police, especially if you are involved.

"Please close the door" makes perfect sense.

Brewer was trying to get her to go outside, where she perceived danger. She refused to go. She did not want the danger to come inside. Thus, she said, "Please close the door."

What would not be logical nor nice would be to leave the door open when a person is afraid of what's outside.

And, no, police can't go through your drawers, or look places not related getting the person out. If there are lines of cocaine cut up on the coffee table, they can bust you for that. But they can't search beyond plain sight. If the person you want out goes under your bed, the police can look under your bed. But they can't just Willy-Nilly go on a treasure hunt in your house.

Besides, you are assuming a puritan police force. Do you really think all the officers who might respond have never been to a party in the area, and never were themselves indulging? Not every person gets busted for every observed illegality. If cops have partied with you, you are in a safer place, legally. Also, local residents are more primary constituents than visitors. Brewer had the advantage of being a local property owner.

Brewer seemed to be mocking Shannan's boyfriend (Alex?) when he came to find her. He brought him to the police station and watched him get basically laughed out. Brewer seemed to know very early on that local police were uninterested in looking for Shannan. I'm pretty sure the boyfriend also brought a gun, which apparently did not impress Brewer or cause action by the police. And, since you say Pak had no regard for Shannan, then why was he helping Brewer encourage her to leave the house? He could have just left. Ditto for after her horrific, terrified scream that preceded running out the door. He apparently was not done for the night yet.

MOO


Edited to add: A lie detector test? Oh, my! The right pharma cocktail will get even Pak through one of those.

MOO

 

[snarast]

"Please close the door" makes perfect sense.

Brewer was trying to get her to go outside, where she perceived danger. She refused to go. She did not want the danger to come inside. Thus, she said, "Please close the door."

What would not be logical nor nice would be to leave the door open when a person is afraid of what's outside.

And, no, police can't go through your drawers, or look places not related getting the person out. If there are lines of cocaine cut up on the coffee table, they can bust you for that. But they can't search beyond plain sight. If the person you want out goes under your bed, the police can look under your bed. But they can't just Willy-Nilly go on a treasure hunt in your house.

Besides, you are assuming a puritan police force. Do you really think all the officers who might respond have never been to a party in the area, and never were themselves indulging? Not every person gets busted for every observed illegality. If cops have partied with you, you are in a safer place, legally. Also, local residents are more primary constituents than visitors. Brewer had the advantage of being a local property owner.

Brewer seemed to be mocking Shannan's boyfriend (Alex?) when he came to find her. He brought him to the police station and watched him get basically laughed out. Brewer seemed to know very early on that local police were uninterested in looking for Shannan. I'm pretty sure the boyfriend also brought a gun, which apparently did not impress Brewer or cause action by the police. And, since you say Pak had no regard for Shannan, then why was he helping Brewer encourage her to leave the house? He could have just left. Ditto for after her horrific, terrified scream that preceded running out the door. He apparently was not done for the night yet.

MOO


Edited to add: A lie detector test? Oh, my! The right pharma cocktail will get even Pak through one of those.

MOO

Oh something tells me Pak would pass any lie detector test. He’s a low pulse non-responsive sociopath.

IMHOO

 

[TOMBISHOP]

Good morning everyone, since we are making hypotheses I would like to make mine that will be in the middle of yours...
let's suppose that there was a party with a drug and sex theme, which RH also attended and once he arrived Shannan recognizes him (taking the story that he had already met her as true) she (under drugs) gets agitated and everything starts where in reality the owner of the house and the driver do not understand and as has been said you are in the middle of illegality and you absolutely do not want the police involved...
She runs away, Pak does not find her and leaves, as well as RH or other guests but RH actually seizes the opportunity and lies in wait to then at the right moment chase her into the swamp, maybe he grabbed her and while wriggling she took off/torn her clothes he reaches her and kills her leaving her there given the perfect place to hide a body as he partly already did and creating a further MO very hunter-like...
all this is perhaps a bit risky...
but the whole story of lisk if you think about it is absurd... I think it is an incredible case not only modern but it will be in history.. so why not!

 

[Ruminations]

Good morning everyone, since we are making hypotheses I would like to make mine that will be in the middle of yours...
let's suppose that there was a party with a drug and sex theme, which RH also attended and once he arrived Shannan recognizes him (taking the story that he had already met her as true) she (under drugs) gets agitated and everything starts where in reality the owner of the house and the driver do not understand and as has been said you are in the middle of illegality and you absolutely do not want the police involved...
She runs away, Pak does not find her and leaves, as well as RH or other guests but RH actually seizes the opportunity and lies in wait to then at the right moment chase her into the swamp, maybe he grabbed her and while wriggling she took off/torn her clothes he reaches her and kills her leaving her there given the perfect place to hide a body as he partly already did and creating a further MO very hunter-like...
all this is perhaps a bit risky...
but the whole story of lisk if you think about it is absurd... I think it is an incredible case not only modern but it will be in history.. so why not!

The way I hear the 911 call, Shannan is far more afraid of someone or something outside of Brewers house than inside, and she doesn't seem to think that either Brewer or Pak will directly harm her, at least until the time she flees. It could be that the trip to Brewer was meant to normalize getting to Suffolk in the first place. She calls 911 when she realizes that someone/something outside is going to do something to her, and neither Brewer nor Pak are protecting her. As the phone call goes on, she accuses Pak of being part of this all along. In the meantime, it is known that, in contrast to Kolker reporting from a very flawed source, Shannan did not arrange this date. Pak and Brewer did. This was also known early on the investigators. Varrone said it publically. Shannan eventually comes to realize that Pak has no intention of bringing her home.

Brewer, for his part, is acting like he's on the clock, and there is no chance for overtime. He was supposed to give Shannan a reason to get to Suffolk, and entertain her for a few hours. When the time was up, and there were no fringe benefits, it was, in his words, "Time to go." I don't think for a moment that he hesitated to call the police because he was afraid they would see any easily pushed aside drugs, or suspect any easily denied human trafficking. But I do believe he hesitated to call the police because he knew that some buddies or bosses or suppliers of his had other plans for Shannan and they would be dissatisfied if she got saved, treated or arrested.

Could Rex have something to do with this? Why not? He did have an interaction with Shannan that terrified her, and, while that evening sounds horrific and not profitable for Shannan to me, in Rex's mind, she got the upper hand when she got a cab back to the city. I could see Rex being angry at her for noticing the fake money too soon. Rex calls himself someone who can find someone anywhere, and who is a problem solver. Maybe he had a problem that Shannan would not see him. And it made him angry after he spent so much time learning about her family to groom her, and cutting up paper. So he solved the problem by working with Brewer or Pak, targeting Shannan. It NEVER made sense that Brewer hired from Manhattan ads rather than local ads.

It is worth noting that the GB victims who died before Shannan were hired from NYC, and carried phones. The GB victims that died after Shannan were hired from LI and did not carry phones. They also came in quick succession. So, SOMEBODY could be a witness to it if RH experienced more manic moods that summer, more bizarre behavior like insisting on a less local 6 flags to bring kids, extra irritable behavior- or SOMEBODY could be a witness to RH being someplace else April 30-May 1 that year. In addition, the DA has troves of paper that might give some answers.

I think RH is a viable theory for who harmed Shannan. It feels more likely to me when I consider his love for problem solving, and he could have seen Shannan's escape from a hotel as a problem.

MOO

 

[snarast]

Why did My friends cousin called the cops and tell them armed intruders were breaking i to his house only for them to find out none of that was true and they arrested him for the cocaine that was all over his kitchen counter.

Linked below is a study on that.

Fifty-three percent (29/55) of those interviewed reported experiencing transient cocaine-induced psychosis. There was no significant difference in lifetime amount of cocaine use or amount of cocaine use in the month before admission between those who experienced psychosis and those who did not.

Cocaine-induced psychosis - PubMed

Cocaine-induced paranoia is a common experience among chronic users. Amount and duration of use are related to its development. Implications for a kindling model of cocaine-induced psychosis will be discussed.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Idk where The notion that pak or brewer would just call 911 for a sex worker is coming from. Brewer was a rich divorced middle aged long island scum bag. Definitely not his first or 100th time using the services of a sex worker. He lives in a gated community. Why would he call the police in the middle of the night to remove a 110 pound women who wasn't physically attacking him? Have the cops show up to his plush neighborhood while he's got drugs all over and paying for sex. On top of being ILLEGAL it would be embarrassing to explain to the neighbors.

Why would pak, who's a convicted felon with an ILLEGAL gun, whos ILLEGALLY, driving around a sex worker call the cops on a non threatening 110 pound woman? To get himself thrown in jail for said gun? Likley for a very long time since pistol possession by a felon is a serious crime in ny?

Laws had to be passed just to encourage people to call 911 for the overdosing FRIENDS AND FAMILY. To this day people will leave others to die thinking they will get in trouble if they call their friend an ambulance. The notion that some scum bag john and what amounts to a pimp basically cared enough to call 911 for Shanna when she wasn't even passed out is absured. Stop thinking like a rational law abiding citizens and put yourself in their shoes even for one second.

Something snapped. Brewer was probably asking her to leave she ran into a room called 911 and he went to get pak to get her to leave. Thr first thing brewer says to pak when to get back to her is talk to her. She didnt say these guys are trying to kill me in holed up in a room please hurry, like any normal person who was really about to be killed would have. She asks brewer/pak to shut the door. Does that sound like soemthing a person who truly believes they are about to be murdered asks their killer? Pak never mentions state lines so idk where you got that from. When he starts insinuating that he's leaving and she has to "find your own ride" she tells him "mile come here" doesn't sound like someone who truly thinks pak is going to kill her.

She didnt say for example knife, gun, taser, rope, they choked me . Nothing specific. After she got put through to state police she said "there's somebody after me" 2x. She's asked "where are you " she repeats "there somebody after me asked again "where are you mam".... after a 5 second pause she says again "there's somebody after me".. that doesn't sound like someone who's fully aware of what's going on or in fight or flight mode.

Pak tells her let's go and she kept saying no. Then a few mins later she starts asking him to go. Saying, "please get me out of here, mike". "I'm begging you now.... I just want to go home". Pak says "let's go" "let's go home" but she doesn't get up to go.

In no way is that presence of mind or trying to calm the men around her down. She couldn't even say her age for christ sake. If she was willing to say there's somebody after me, and she was in the right state of mind, which she's evidently not, she for sure could have stated her age. That's basic information anyone in the right state of mind could provide the police. They didn't ask her to solve a math equation.

As far as her earnings you're assuming she put the money inside her wallet. For all we know she could have put the money anywhere on her (inside a bra, in a pocket) and after 19 months and a hurricane later it was gone. Bills only weigh a gram a peice its not like he paid her on silver kilos. I live minutes away from where she was found we had hurricane sandy go through there after Shannan went missing a lot of things went flying, and missing as per usual for a storm like that.

Few people with mental illness become psychotic. On the other hand, we all hallucinate on mescaline/lsd and after several sleepless nights.

It seems to me Shannan had reason to be fearful - strange sex party out in the sticks /w MP + upcoming trial -> scary as hell. I don’t see the need for a coke spazz-out coming into the equation

IMHOO

 

[LongIsland731]

The way I hear the 911 call, Shannan is far more afraid of someone or something outside of Brewers house than inside, and she doesn't seem to think that either Brewer or Pak will directly harm her, at least until the time she flees. It could be that the trip to Brewer was meant to normalize getting to Suffolk in the first place. She calls 911 when she realizes that someone/something outside is going to do something to her, and neither Brewer nor Pak are protecting her. As the phone call goes on, she accuses Pak of being part of this all along. In the meantime, it is known that, in contrast to Kolker reporting from a very flawed source, Shannan did not arrange this date. Pak and Brewer did. This was also known early on the investigators. Varrone said it publically. Shannan eventually comes to realize that Pak has no intention of bringing her home.

Brewer, for his part, is acting like he's on the clock, and there is no chance for overtime. He was supposed to give Shannan a reason to get to Suffolk, and entertain her for a few hours. When the time was up, and there were no fringe benefits, it was, in his words, "Time to go." I don't think for a moment that he hesitated to call the police because he was afraid they would see any easily pushed aside drugs, or suspect any easily denied human trafficking. But I do believe he hesitated to call the police because he knew that some buddies or bosses or suppliers of his had other plans for Shannan and they would be dissatisfied if she got saved, treated or arrested.

Could Rex have something to do with this? Why not? He did have an interaction with Shannan that terrified her, and, while that evening sounds horrific and not profitable for Shannan to me, in Rex's mind, she got the upper hand when she got a cab back to the city. I could see Rex being angry at her for noticing the fake money too soon. Rex calls himself someone who can find someone anywhere, and who is a problem solver. Maybe he had a problem that Shannan would not see him. And it made him angry after he spent so much time learning about her family to groom her, and cutting up paper. So he solved the problem by working with Brewer or Pak, targeting Shannan. It NEVER made sense that Brewer hired from Manhattan ads rather than local ads.

It is worth noting that the GB victims who died before Shannan were hired from NYC, and carried phones. The GB victims that died after Shannan were hired from LI and did not carry phones. They also came in quick succession. So, SOMEBODY could be a witness to it if RH experienced more manic moods that summer, more bizarre behavior like insisting on a less local 6 flags to bring kids, extra irritable behavior- or SOMEBODY could be a witness to RH being someplace else April 30-May 1 that year. In addition, the DA has troves of paper that might give some answers.

I think RH is a viable theory for who harmed Shannan. It feels more likely to me when I consider his love for problem solving, and he could have seen Shannan's escape from a hotel as a problem.

MOO

Yet we never hear shanna mention anything about anyone outside to 911 nor does she say anything about anyone outside to pak. Nor does she mention anyon3 else being at Brewers house. All things that would have easily came up if she was as coherent and fearful as you claim.

No one would he outside that late at night trying to cause a scene and risk being witnessed by one of Brewers neighbors.

There's almost zero chance of RH being there. There's zero evidence linking him to brewer in any capacity let alone being present that night. Not his style. He moved in silence and alone hence why it took him so long to be captured.

 

[Ruminations]

Few people with mental illness become psychotic. On the other hand, we all hallucinate on mescaline/lsd and after several sleepless nights.

It seems to me Shannan had reason to be fearful - strange sex party out in the sticks /w MP + upcoming trial -> scary as hell. I don’t see the need for a coke spazz-out coming into the equation

IMHOO

We can listen to her for nearly half an hour. Nothing she says or does is psychotic. Everything makes perfect sense in the context of there being danger outside, Pak and Brewer intending to ease her towards it, and her figuring out,during the phone call that Pak was part of it all along.

There is no crazy. No irrational. No psychosis. Of course you want to close the door if danger is outside. Of course, if you are not sure what a person might do to you, you will be vague about the danger. You don't know the specifics. If you are early in the phone call and trying to keep it secret, you don't ignore a question about your age because you are "not all there." You ignore the question because you don't want to be caught on the phone. You are desperately hoping LE comes to you and interrupts the person or persons outside and gives you a chance to just go home with the driver, who you are beginning to realize, has betrayed you.

That is all intelligent, rational behavior.

RIP, Shannan.

MOO

 

[LongIsland731]

We can listen to her for nearly half an hour. Nothing she says or does is psychotic. Everything makes perfect sense in the context of there being danger outside, Pak and Brewer intending to ease her towards it, and her figuring out,during the phone call that Pak was part of it all along.

There is no crazy. No irrational. No psychosis. Of course you want to close the door if danger is outside. Of course, if you are not sure what a person might do to you, you will be vague about the danger. You don't know the specifics. If you are early in the phone call and trying to keep it secret, you don't ignore a question about your age because you are "not all there." You ignore the question because you don't want to be caught on the phone. You are desperately hoping LE comes to you and interrupts the person or persons outside and gives you a chance to just go home with the driver, who you are beginning to realize, has betrayed you.

That is all intelligent, rational behavior.

RIP, Shannan.

MOO

Except pak knew she was on the phone he asked her what's with the phone and who are you calling so she's not really trying to hide it. And close the door was referring to the door of the bedroom she was in not the front door. If she was by the front door brewer and or pak would have had a much easier time getting her out. Also still waiting for where pak mentions crossing state lines like you claimed in an earlier post (here's a hint , he never did).

 

[Ruminations]

Yet we never hear shanna mention anything about anyone outside to 911 nor does she say anything about anyone outside to pak. Nor does she mention anyon3 else being at Brewers house. All things that would have easily came up if she was as coherent and fearful as you claim.

No one would he outside that late at night trying to cause a scene and risk being witnessed by one of Brewers neighbors.

There's almost zero chance of RH being there. There's zero evidence linking him to brewer in any capacity let alone being present that night. Not his style. He moved in silence and alone hence why it took him so long to be captured.

Well, listen again. Of course she is afraid of something or someone outside. She wanted to close the door! The danger was outside, and she did not know the specifics. Eventually she had the bravery and presence of mind to explicitly ask Pak if they were going to kill her.

Is Rex involved? I don't know. I have a feeling witnesses close to Rex could give information to implicate or exonerate him. But I don't have that information. I would not be surprised either way- Rex in or Rex out. I can't get to zero chance of his being there- it's all local to him, and he is formally accused of being nearby to dispose of several other victims.

Rex is pretty social! He is reportedly at the center of organizing family reunions. He had friends he hunted and shot with. One friend reports enjoying scotch and cigars with him. The swinger witness was at the center of a social occasion, which very well could have been Karen Vergata's murder night. On that night, the witness saw what she saw (an imprisoned young woman), and by extension, the cop boyfriend and Asa likely did too. Now, the witness did not totally process that information at the time, and I think it is possible that the same is true for Asa. Both of them, not to mention the cop, should have done or said something to stop the evenings events, but I do get how sometimes doing the best you can falls very, very short. Rex may have surrounded himself with people whose "best" was not going to save his murder victims. But, long story short, Rex is hardly a loner and may have accomplices or witnesses.

So, I can't get to zero chance Rex was involved, but I am very open to hearing more.

You are a local, right? Maybe you have some information that supports that danger NOT being Rex? Was he elsewhere? I am not married to the danger Shannan faced being tied to Rex, but I'm not divorced from it either.

MOO

 

[snarast]

It’s a nightmare deciphering the phone call - but it’s just three people that can be heard on Shannan’s side?

I wish MP was not a sociopath, but instead a man who has had a hard life and can now come out with his magnum opus on how to best shuffle escorts in the NY area.

 

[Ruminations]

It’s a nightmare deciphering the phone call - but it’s just three people that can be heard on Shannan’s side?

I wish MP was not a sociopath, but instead a man who has had a hard life and can now come out with his magnum opus on how to best shuffle escorts in the NY area.

I, personally, only hear Shannan, Pak and Brewer.

From the context, Brewer seems to cycle through four strategies. First, he just tells her to leave. Then he gets Pak's help to tell her to leave (and Shannan sees she is not being offered a ride home, and is being called 'Shannan') Then, when Pak can't do it alone, Brewer tries, "We'll all leave together." When that doesn't work, he reports he's going to bed. Every level of the house had an outside exit, so who knows if he went to bed or right out the back, but he withdrew from dealing with Shannan. Thats why I feel like his behavior was like someone whose job was already done for the night, and he didn't like that he was still being bothered. It's just the mood I pick up from him. He does seem to like Pak, but not enough to deal with Pak's problem, Shannan.

When Shannan tells Pak she wants to go home, that is a strong implication that "home" is in contrast to where she was sent by Brewer, or where she was expected to be going right then. I don't know any other way to interpret it. Also, I assume it was a person she was afraid of, because she says someone is after her, and at the beginning, she doesn't seem to be referring to Brewer or Pak. She felt safer in Brewers house than outside. But she figures out Pak set her up. She briefly pleads with him to not go through with the set up and to just go home. But he's not willing to do that, and by the time he claims to be offering a ride to "Manhattan" she seems not to trust him that it will happen.

I also hear Shannan trying to keep Pak and Brewer calm, and trying not to be in the wrong. That's why she phrases things so politely, like please close the door. Of course, some of the politeness can be because she knows 911 is listening and she doesn't want to give a bad impression. (This is more reason to see how clearly she was thinking.)

The whole call makes perfect sense if you assume that Shannan saw some kind of trap outside, indicating that someone was after her. When she ran, that trap probably didn't follow her, judging from Coletti's statement, and assuming that Coletti was describing Pak chasing her. (I suppose it's possible a different SUV was chasing her, and Pak bailed then. Although his lying lips also said he followed/looked for her, so I tend to assume that he did, and Coletti did not see what frightened Shannan.)

Then, somehow, Hackett gets involved, Oak Beach people are talking to Alex and Pak, bringing them to the police. Hackett calls Shannan's mom. Security video disappears. This paragraph is why I don't find it credible that people wouldn't want to "disturb" their neighbors. The neighbors, except Brennen and maybe Coletti, were not a bit "bothered." They were eager to discourage a search for Shannan (by claiming to mom she was alive and bringing people to the laughing police) as well as eager to destroy evidence like the video recordings.

MOO

 

[LongIsland731]

S

I, personally, only hear Shannan, Pak and Brewer.

From the context, Brewer seems to cycle through four strategies. First, he just tells her to leave. Then he gets Pak's help to tell her to leave (and Shannan sees she is not being offered a ride home, and is being called 'Shannan') Then, when Pak can't do it alone, Brewer tries, "We'll all leave together." When that doesn't work, he reports he's going to bed. Every level of the house had an outside exit, so who knows if he went to bed or right out the back, but he withdrew from dealing with Shannan. Thats why I feel like his behavior was like someone whose job was already done for the night, and he didn't like that he was still being bothered. It's just the mood I pick up from him. He does seem to like Pak, but not enough to deal with Pak's problem, Shannan.

When Shannan tells Pak she wants to go home, that is a strong implication that "home" is in contrast to where she was sent by Brewer, or where she was expected to be going right then. I don't know any other way to interpret it. Also, I assume it was a person she was afraid of, because she says someone is after her, and at the beginning, she doesn't seem to be referring to Brewer or Pak. She felt safer in Brewers house than outside. But she figures out Pak set her up. She briefly pleads with him to not go through with the set up and to just go home. But he's not willing to do that, and by the time he claims to be offering a ride to "Manhattan" she seems not to trust him that it will happen.

I also hear Shannan trying to keep Pak and Brewer calm, and trying not to be in the wrong. That's why she phrases things so politely, like please close the door. Of course, some of the politeness can be because she knows 911 is listening and she doesn't want to give a bad impression. (This is more reason to see how clearly she was thinking.)

The whole call makes perfect sense if you assume that Shannan saw some kind of trap outside, indicating that someone was after her. When she ran, that trap probably didn't follow her, judging from Coletti's statement, and assuming that Coletti was describing Pak chasing her. (I suppose it's possible a different SUV was chasing her, and Pak bailed then. Although his lying lips also said he followed/looked for her, so I tend to assume that he did, and Coletti did not see what frightened Shannan.)

Then, somehow, Hackett gets involved, Oak Beach people are talking to Alex and Pak, bringing them to the police. Hackett calls Shannan's mom. Security video disappears. This paragraph is why I don't find it credible that people wouldn't want to "disturb" their neighbors. The neighbors, except Brennen and maybe Coletti, were not a bit "bothered." They were eager to discourage a search for Shannan (by claiming to mom she was alive and bringing people to the laughing police) as well as eager to destroy evidence like the video recordings.

MOO

So they knew she was on the phone with 911, knew she ran through the neighborhood, knew she knocked on a few doors, its possible pak saw coletti at his door, and still killed her and dumped her body in the same area. Then pak stuck around for 3 hours and later voulantarility let himself be deposed and lie detector test. Brewer voulantarility let himself be deposed. The exact opposite behavior of anyone involved in a murder.

The fact that you think that she knew she was going to be murdered yet gave a flying fook about her "impression" with the 911 dispatcher is mind blowing. She might as well have started putting on make up as to give a good impression for the cops who she wanted to show up LOL. Im sure she was so clearly thinking im about to be murdered and the impression she was leaving on the person who could possible save her life was on top of her mind.


Let's even breakdown her interaction with coletti. If she was really being chased as opposed to being in a physcosis/hallucinating wouldn't she have been as clear as possible after he opened the door for her? Instead she basically stared at him and just said I need help then ran off again.

Coletti : "what's the matter?"
-No response for 7 seconds
Coletti : "what's the matter?"
-No response yet again
Coletti : "is somebody after you, huh?"
-Another 10 second pause the maybe shanna says something its not clear.
Coletti : "are you alright?"
Shanna : "i need help"
Coletti : "don't get yourself hurt, where are you going?"
-Again no answer from Shanna just breathing
Coletti : "wait a minute, where are you going? What are you doing"
-evidence in my opinion shannan was acting erratic, even coletti is confused (like pak and Brewer were)

Then shannan took off running again.

What coherent, sober, in true danger, person knocks on a door for help gets someone to open, then provides ZERO details as to what's going on, why they knocked on the door and what they need help with ? Please answer that.

It would have gone a lot closer to something like this:

Coletti : "what's the matter?"
-BEFORE HE COULD EVEN FINISH ASKING
Shannan : "let me in let me in someone is trying to kill me , let me in and close the door call the police (or im on the phone with the police tell then where we are tell them your address)". "Help someone is after me he's chasing me" ...

ANYTHING !!! Instead she didnt respond to multiple questions from coletti , then said I need help and ran off again. Im sure you will respond with some crazy theory how shanna recognized coletti was in on the elaborate plot, did 1000 calculations in her head how he would also murder her and then ran off to the next house looking for help. If her words and action at Brewers didn't already confirm she was not in the right state of mind, her interaction with coletti, whom she sought help from was the cherry on top!!!

And I have no love for suffolk pd, I've have my fair share of problems with them but their experts have listened to the call and investigated every detail up and down and came to the same conclusion.

 

[Ruminations]

S

So they knew she was on the phone with 911, knew she ran through the neighborhood, knew she knocked on a few doors, its possible pak saw coletti at his door, and still killed her and dumped her body in the same area. Then pak stuck around for 3 hours and later voulantarility let himself be deposed and lie detector test. Brewer voulantarility let himself be deposed. The exact opposite behavior of anyone involved in a murder.

The fact that you think that she knew she was going to be murdered yet gave a flying fook about her "impression" with the 911 dispatcher is mind blowing. She might as well have started putting on make up as to give a good impression for the cops who she wanted to show up LOL. Im sure she was so clearly thinking im about to be murdered and the impression she was leaving on the person who could possible save her life was on top of her mind.


Let's even breakdown her interaction with coletti. If she was really being chased as opposed to being in a physcosis/hallucinating wouldn't she have been as clear as possible after he opened the door for her? Instead she basically stared at him and just said I need help then ran off again.

Coletti : "what's the matter?"
-No response for 7 seconds
Coletti : "what's the matter?"
-No response yet again
Coletti : "is somebody after you, huh?"
-Another 10 second pause the maybe shanna says something its not clear.
Coletti : "are you alright?"
Shanna : "i need help"
Coletti : "don't get yourself hurt, where are you going?"
-Again no answer from Shanna just breathing
Coletti : "wait a minute, where are you going? What are you doing"
-evidence in my opinion shannan was acting erratic, even coletti is confused (like pak and Brewer were)

Then shannan took off running again.

What coherent, sober, in true danger, person knocks on a door for help gets someone to open, then provides ZERO details as to what's going on, why they knocked on the door and what they need help with ? Please answer that.

It would have gone a lot closer to something like this:

Coletti : "what's the matter?"
-BEFORE HE COULD EVEN FINISH ASKING
Shannan : "let me in let me in someone is trying to kill me , let me in and close the door call the police (or im on the phone with the police tell then where we are tell them your address)". "Help someone is after me he's chasing me" ...

ANYTHING !!! Instead she didnt respond to multiple questions from coletti , then said I need help and ran off again. Im sure you will respond with some crazy theory how shanna recognized coletti was in on the elaborate plot, did 1000 calculations in her head how he would also murder her and then ran off to the next house looking for help. If her words and action at Brewers didn't already confirm she was not in the right state of mind, her interaction with coletti, whom she sought help from was the cherry on top!!!

And I have no love for suffolk pd, I've have my fair share of problems with them but their experts have listened to the call and investigated every detail up and down and came to the same conclusion.

Shannan had just sprinted after being up all night. And you're surprised that you hear breathing instead of a a lengthy explanation?

Maybe her main agenda was make sure police get the address, and when he was on the phone with 911, she felt like her job was done there, and she did not want Coletti to turn her over to whomever was chasing her.

Indeed, Suffolk police took their time arriving. And the 911 operators were not particularly good at interviewing Shannan. I don't believe Brewer was deposed by police, just interviewed. Pak fell asleep during a lie detector test. Nobody "volunteered" to give depositions, they were compelled to by subpoenas due to Mari's lawsuit against Hackett. The depositions are filled with conversations that indicate Brewer and Pak do not want to give the depositions, and Pak even asks to get paid for his time, lol. Those depositions were pulled like teeth by John Ray, as was the 911 call.

No one is accusing you of being buddies with the police, but to call them the experts in this case is laughable. They were late in response to 3 911 calls. They refused to take missing persons reports. They didn't even ask the HOA to save the security footage in case Shannan is not found, let alone demand it. They chased away the FBI. They refused to release the 911 case, citing an ongoing investigation into what they called "misadventure." Once they did release the tape, they edited it to remove their own dispatchers, interrupted it to insert commentary at times to break the tension; right as things are escalating and right before Shannan screams, they stop the recording, and narrate that
Shannan then runs, getting the audience to picture the running part before hearing that horrific scream. They constantly assert against logic she entered the marsh and crossed it, when it makes so much more sense she was dumped from the road. They, after claiming she entered the marsh nearer her pants, Brennen and Hackett, decided to search for her 5 miles west? "Professionals" publicly argued if there were one or two or more serial killers. They were the interference in this case, especially from the time the FBI was removed and until the task force was formed. They were not the experts. At least not the experts at solving this crime.

MOO