Sidebar Discussion #9

[ButForFortune]

they were trying to prove the skull was moved i believe

You're right - I had forgotten the defense was running with that "theory" for awhile.

 

[RR0004]

they were trying to prove the skull was moved i believe

Well...even if that were the case...duh! Of course Caylee was moved, the pool was at the Anthony's house. IMPO, the "moving of the body" was part of an early theory they were trying to sell. I'm sure it was much later that they decided to go with the molestation theory....which I don't need to point out, doesn't explain how Caylee died. JB put a lot of theories on trial. He used any and everything to create reasonable doubt. I guess he believes it was ultimately George's "involvement" that convinced the jury...'cause we don't hear him spouting about RK anymore.

 

[md89]

Here's the problem with the above theory, and this is going to be hard to read so some may want to pass over this.

If Casey had wanted to quiet down Caylee while she was on the phone it would not have required three pieces of duct tape covering her mouth and nose. Duct tape that was so tightly placed on Caylee that it was still in place after her poor little body had decomposed completely. A child, heck any person, would not sit there without struggling to try and get the tape off of their nose and mouth so that they could breath. This means, if Caylee was alive and awake when Casey placed those three pieces of duct tape on her mouth and nose, that Caylee's hands had to have been restrained in some way. As Dr. G said, there is no reason whatsoever for any duct tape to be placed on a childs mouth and nose unless it is placed there to kill the child. This was not an accident. This was not an attempt to keep Caylee quiet while Casey was on the phone. This was premeditated murder. Casey fully intended for Caylee to die and she did.

MOO

BBM. I always thought that the duct tape was placed on a dead Caylee to make it look like a kidnapping. Her first story was that Caylee was kidnapped by Zenaida. She probably watched too many movies where they often use duct tape on a kidnap victim. She borrows a lot from tv shows and movies.

 

[Numbers]

Would one of you wise posters refresh my memory?

I recall Jose said that George disposed of the body "somewhere" and that RK found the body "sometime" and did "something," then later put it in the woods. Mostly I recall there was a huge gap in the sequence and some wild dancing around specifics, and I was going "Huh?" a lot.

I think I already know the truth, but can anybody fill in the gaps according to Jose?

 

[com n sense]

What were the times of "quiet" from cell phone logs and computer logs? That was when Casey was killing Caylee, IMO. I firmly believe that the calls to Cindy were not to get her to babysit but to see when Cindy would be home so Casey knew how long she had to clean up and leave without running into Cindy or George.

MOO

Ohhh good one. I can just picture her with her cell in her hand, frantically calling while running around cleaning up all at the same time.
I always thought it was cause she wanted a babysitter & it made her furious that CA would not answer her phone. I believe Caylee was killed in a rage.
She wanted CA to answer her calls that day. Why I am not sure. She either needed a question answered or like you said, she wanted to be sure CA wasn't on her way home. Otherwise she could have left CA a voice mail or even a note on the table. There was something she needed an answer to.

 

[LEFT-COASTER]

Would one of you wise posters refresh my memory?

I recall Jose said that George disposed of the body "somewhere" and that RK found the body "sometime" and did "something," then later put it in the woods. Mostly I recall there was a huge gap in the sequence and some wild dancing around specifics, and I was going "Huh?" a lot.

I think I already know the truth, but can anybody fill in the gaps according to Jose?

I remember him saying that.. and I think he touched on that in the book..
but he also.. is saying something about ga going back and moving the body and putting it under a tree trunk so it wouldnt be found...

Its all really confusing and hard to follow joses *theories*

 

[RR0004]

It should all be here:

http://www.acandyrose.com/casey_anthony_31days-061508.htm
This Timeline is for Sunday, June 15, 2008 of the 31 days


HTH

bbm

--ETA: Actually the timeline doesn't specify her location, just phone/text records. Maybe ping maps?

Well...if what Cindy said was true...about how she, Casey, and Caylee were all hanging out together in bed (Cindy's?)on the night of the 15th....then I'd like to know what she thought of Casey texting Tony pretty much the whole night. More BS from Cindy. It also mentions at the link that Cindy didn't know where Casey was during the day. IIRC, she wasn't with Tony. So where the heck was she?

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

I have to think that if KC had a fight with her mother on the 15th that Caylee was very upset. Maybe so upset and KC tried to quiet her down while she was on the phone with TL. Could this be why there was duct tape on Caylee's mouth and nose? I don't think it would be a stretch to think KC lost track of the time while in her car and Caylee was gone by the time she finished her conversation so KC put Caylee into the trunk. I don't think she was home but may have been at the dump site because I believe that is where she hid everyday when she was suppose to be going to work and she waited there for her father to leave. It would still hit the tower as being close to home, I might imagine. That would explain the phone call from GA to the house. Once GA left she would go back to the house. GA may have left her a voicemail that he was not coming back and to let the dogs out or something of that nature so she was sure he would not return. We've all seen KC in a rage. It's not hard to believe Caylee died on the 15th if there was a fight the night before. jmo

When Casey put the duct tape across Caylee's face, what would of kept Caylee from fighting and removing it? If Casey put a still alive nut drugged Caylee in the truck what would of kept Caylee from removing it when if she woke up?

Did Caylee sing "you are my sunshine" before or after Mr. Pease sang it to her?

 

[grammieto5]

I am not finding anything 'interesting' or 'lots of stuff about baby Caylee.'
Can you give a bigger hint?

Why were your searching the Kyle name? Now you got me curious.

right under the photo of trees and water is Caylee's pages. I have not been to this site before. I was reading the time line, her phone calls and texts, I saw that name, I didn't remember it

 

[com n sense]

*There's a little bit of truth in all of her lies*

Casey claims that she always slept with her bedroom door locked. Is it possible that George/Cindy always slept with their bedroom door locked instead? Did Casey, after that huge fight with Cindy on the night of the 15th, attempt to go into their room to kill them but the door was locked so she couldn't? Did Casey plan on killing Cindy and George that night but failed? Did Casey then decide to go ahead with part of her plan and kill just Caylee?

We know that there were searches for household weapons, etc. That is not something one would need to use on a small child. It had to have been searched for use against George and/or Cindy. If she planned on killing all three of them, what was her end game? How was she going to deal with all three dead in the house but her still alive?

I just love the way you think. You get my wheels turning. When you said this what came to mind was her iming her man friend the morning of the 16th. She was telling him how excited she was about finally getting the house & how she was looking forward to Amy moving in in a matter of days. Creepy....

 

[grammieto5]

The part about the walmart trip and the saw etc annoyed the heck out of me..
and I still wanna know .. who would take a bus load of mentally handicapped people to walmart at 3 am on christmas eve and drops them off ???

Its like he adds descriptions of people... like how much they weigh, how short they are, they have downs syndrome etc for his amusement .. it just grates me..

AND when a "bus load of mentally handicapped people" are taken to Walmart they are watched. One would not be able to run around following JB.

 

[com n sense]

ok here is more.. phone calls etc from that afternoon

04:11pm: Called Cindy
04:19pm: Called Tony
04:21pm: Called Jess
04:25pm: Called Cindy
05:57pm: Called Tony

I know there was a call in there from her father at approx 3:04

I'd sure like to know what her conversations with Jesse, & Amy were that day. Did they ever say? Did she ask them to babysit?

 

[grammieto5]

What wicked wicked people JB and FCA are. I just read Shirley Pleseas's statement. What a sweet lady she is. FCA is one horrible person!!! These two, JB and FCA belong together.

 

[CarolinaMoon]

they were trying to prove the skull was moved i believe

Theyopened the skull, according to Spitz, because that' how you do an autopsy. For him, it was SOP. Then, he discovered the "brain dust"...

Spitz criticized Garavaglia for doing an incompetent autopsy because she didn't cut open the skull.

In actuality, the person who examined the skull washed it out with a saline solution and identified the "brain dust" as soil deposits from where the skull had been buried in the ground due to water run-off. That proved that the skull hadn't been moved as it was full of dirt.

 

[LEFT-COASTER]

I'd sure like to know what her conversations with Jesse, & Amy were that day. Did they ever say? Did she ask them to babysit?

The call with jesse was an 11 min call from what ive found..
So far what ive seen about that call was that jesse felt it was not a normal call.
but ive not seen why he said that yet.. im still researching more on that..
but he did say she said this.
.JG: Uhm, the fact that her mom was no longer moving out anymore. Casey now had to find a place to live. Uhm, uh, she couldn't stay at home. And that her parents were getting a divorce...

all ive been able to see about the content of the call to amy so far was that
jose states :
"When we interviewed Amy, she couldn’t recall anything special about the conversation."

Im still researching will post back if i find more...

 

[com n sense]

Here is what he says about the announcement of when the remains were found..

That man has no heart! To make fun of the ones that cried for Caylee is so unbelievable to me. It tells me him & KC did alot of giggling over the ones who mourned Caylee. I cried too & I know most here did as well.

 

[com n sense]

Well...if what Cindy said was true...about how she, Casey, and Caylee were all hanging out together in bed (Cindy's?)on the night of the 15th....then I'd like to know what she thought of Casey texting Tony pretty much the whole night. More BS from Cindy. It also mentions at the link that Cindy didn't know where Casey was during the day. IIRC, she wasn't with Tony. So where the heck was she?

Busy getting her batch of chloroform made up...

 

[Numbers]

I remember him saying that.. and I think he touched on that in the book..
but he also.. is saying something about ga going back and moving the body and putting it under a tree trunk so it wouldnt be found...

Its all really confusing and hard to follow joses *theories*

Seems Jose tells tales that even he can't pin down. It's the old nailing-jello-to-a-tree statement so he can't ~really~ be disproven.

 

[nerdy]

Here is what he says about the announcement of when the remains were found..

To me, this passage speaks volumes about JB's ability to recognize (and feel) genuine emotion. To him, it's incomprehensible that someone would cry for a child. To humanity, it's incomprehensible someone would NOT.

JMO.

 

[NavySubMom]

The part about the walmart trip and the saw etc annoyed the heck out of me..
and I still wanna know .. who would take a bus load of mentally handicapped people to walmart at 3 am on christmas eve and drops them off ???

Its like he adds descriptions of people... like how much they weigh, how short they are, they have downs syndrome etc for his amusement .. it just grates me..

I keep wondering, what medical examiner uses a saw bought at a Walmart? like the kind you buy in a hardwarde store to saw tree branches, or something?

Using the kind of saw you would buy at a Walmart store to saw open a 2.5 year old babies skull just shows you the unprofessionalism of this whole DT.

I googled "what kind of a saw would you use in autopsy to open a skull" and there are, as I inherently knew there would be, special saws for this. Some are called Stryker Autopsy Saws, they are hand held, electrical special high precision high-speed oscillating saws. No wonder Spitz busted open Caylee's skull. This is insanity to me!

I do remember Spitz was all out of joint apparently because didn't he want to sit in with Dr. G and view and work side-by-side with her on the initial autopsy, something like that, but they didn't let him? So was he pouting or something, because I, The Great and Powerful Dr. Werner Spitz, am NOT allowed to do what * I * want to do???? and YELLED, "SOMEONE GET ME A SAW< ANY SAW, JUST GET ME A SAW HERE!!"

Dr. G explained why she did not saw Caylee's skull open and it made perfect sense to me. But I can see where another ME might want to do it, so, instead of maybe at a later date, once Spitz could obtain a saw, even from an local medical school or something, someone surely had to have connections to get the right kind of saw, but I guess the $200,000 ABC money had already been spent, and Spitz probably asked for a bundle of cash, so no way would he be able to examine the skull at another time I guess?

How would things have gone if a respectable, competent Defense ME really wanted to open the skull? I HIGHLY DOUBT they would have done so by using a saw from WALMART?? I realize it was Christmas, but can't they have waited until the day after the Holiday or something? That would be if it was someone who was really there to do an ethical job and get the best results possible for their client.

IMO, MOO, etc.

ETA: and I know understand that it was NOT necessary for ANYONE to saw open Caylee's skull, but I am theorizing that an ethical Defense ME might want to do it, and if they were intent on doing it, there is a professional, proper, scientific and ethical way to do it.