Size 12/14 Bloomies

[BBB167893]

Another thing: did any of your kids leave a bed as neat as JB's in the picture? I never did!

Patsy's OBVIOUSLY lying in that interview.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

Patsy was obviously lying almost every time she opened her mouth when it came to JonBenet, if you ask me. Even when JonBenet was still alive - spoke French and played violin, my butt.

I don't believe JonBenet ever made it to bed that night. That bed certainly does not look like a child has been sleeping in it.

 

[trixie]

Patsy was obviously lying almost every time she opened her mouth when it came to JonBenet, if you ask me. Even when JonBenet was still alive - spoke French and played violin, my butt.

I don't believe JonBenet ever made it to bed that night. That bed certainly does not look like a child has been sleeping in it.

I totally agree with you about Jonbenet not making it to bed that night. I've always thought that.

 

[rashomon]

rashomon,
I've seen no mention of her black velvet pants wrt wetting/soiling etc.
IMO JonBenet was wearing her day clothes when she was killed!

To avoid any misunderstanding: What were JB's 'day clothes' in your opinion? The shirt with the sequined star on it and the black velvet pants which she wore to the Whites' Christmas party?

 

[UKGuy]

To avoid any misunderstanding: What were JB's 'day clothes' in your opinion? The shirt with the sequined star on it and the black velvet pants which she wore to the Whites' Christmas party?

rashomon,

More or less the clothes she was wearing on returning from the Whites.

She may have exchanged slippers or sneakers for her footwear.

So White Gap Top, Black Velvet Pants, size-6 underwear, vest?, socks or/and leotard?, the latter I am not certain about.

I'll just mention it again for the umpteenth time, pedantic I know, but she was discovered with bare feet!

Lets be litigious: Just think of somebody wishing to sexually abuse Jonbenet, what do they do?

Well possibly they may undress her from the waist down?

Now if you want to hide or attempt to mask this what might you do?

Wipe her down, clean her up, remove her current underwear, redress her in other underwear, and IF she was wearing leotards, something similar e.g. longjohns, oh and make the underwear a Wednesday pair?

Unless we are dealing with a genius of an intruder who can defy locard's principles, then I think its pretty obvious what happened the night JonBenet was killed, and it was no accident!

.

 

[narlacat]

<<I'll just mention it again for the umpteenth time, pedantic I know, but she was discovered with bare feet!>>

What is the importance of that UKGuy?

 

[Nehemiah]

This is a great thread.

I have always thought and posted that JB's clothes hold the key to the mystery of her murder. The pictures taken at the Whites' have never been released. Why is that? I think it's because there is some kind of discrepancy in what the pictures show, and what the depos state, and that is some of the evidence that the BPD has held onto if this case should ever go to court.

Patsy:
I mean, if you have ever seen

2 these little panties, there is not too much

3 difference in the size. So, you know, I'm

4 sure even if they were a little bit big,

5 they were special because we got them up

6 there, she wanted to wear them, and they

7 didn't fall down around her ankles, that was

8 fine with me....


I have sons and no "experience" in dressing little girls, so seeing the actual pictures posted as a result of Jayelle's experiment helped me to realize just how large those panties were on little JB. I think that someone pulled the large panties out of her drawer for redressing her, and I think it was due to the "Wednesday" imprint that those were chosen. For that reason, I do not think it was Patsy. I do not think that Patsy would have made such a mistake with sizing. I think that a woman's instinct would have been to have at least found some that fit. I believe it to have been a male--a male who really didn't know that much about girls' clothing and sizes.

 

[narlacat]

This is a great thread.

I have always thought and posted that JB's clothes hold the key to the mystery of her murder. The pictures taken at the Whites' have never been released. Why is that? I think it's because there is some kind of discrepancy in what the pictures show, and what the depos state, and that is some of the evidence that the BPD has held onto if this case should ever go to court.

I have sons and no "experience" in dressing little girls, so seeing the actual pictures posted as a result of Jayelle's experiment helped me to realize just how large those panties were on little JB. I think that someone pulled the large panties out of her drawer for redressing her, and I think it was due to the "Wednesday" imprint that those were chosen. For that reason, I do not think it was Patsy. I do not think that Patsy would have made such a mistake with sizing. I think that a woman's instinct would have been to have at least found some that fit. I believe it to have been a male--a male who really didn't know that much about girls' clothing and sizes.

But if they were the only other pair of panties with Wednesday on them...

 

[UKGuy]

<<I'll just mention it again for the umpteenth time, pedantic I know, but she was discovered with bare feet!>>

What is the importance of that UKGuy?

narlacat,

Its importance might depend on which theory you support.

But think about it laterally, consider the other items which were removed from the crime-scene e.g. part of the paintbrush handle, her size-6 underwear, the flashlight?

So were her socks or leotards also removed?


.

 

[UKGuy]

This is a great thread.

I have always thought and posted that JB's clothes hold the key to the mystery of her murder. The pictures taken at the Whites' have never been released. Why is that? I think it's because there is some kind of discrepancy in what the pictures show, and what the depos state, and that is some of the evidence that the BPD has held onto if this case should ever go to court.

I have sons and no "experience" in dressing little girls, so seeing the actual pictures posted as a result of Jayelle's experiment helped me to realize just how large those panties were on little JB. I think that someone pulled the large panties out of her drawer for redressing her, and I think it was due to the "Wednesday" imprint that those were chosen. For that reason, I do not think it was Patsy. I do not think that Patsy would have made such a mistake with sizing. I think that a woman's instinct would have been to have at least found some that fit. I believe it to have been a male--a male who really didn't know that much about girls' clothing and sizes.

Nehemiah,

I tend to agree with you, but there is always the possibility that the Wedesday pair mattered not so much to the redresser but also to whomever else was told she was wearing a Wednesday pair?

.

 

[Nehemiah]

Well, you could certainly be correct. I just don't see a woman doing that, though. Just like with JB having blue hair ties in her hair when found, yet she was wearing black, red, and white clothing. No good Southern mom would commit such a fashion faux pas.

 

[Becba]

Patsey seems to say she put them in JB's bathroom and then also say she put them in JB"s drawer.

Also, the bed did not look slept in. It is doubtful JB made her bed Christmas day, so it may have been made up for a couple of days. Perhaps she had been sleeping somewhere besides her own bed.

 

[UKGuy]

Well, you could certainly be correct. I just don't see a woman doing that, though. Just like with JB having blue hair ties in her hair when found, yet she was wearing black, red, and white clothing. No good Southern mom would commit such a fashion faux pas.

Nehemiah,

Thats why her clothing is a key aspect to this case. Analysed properly it can be demonstrated that its likely she was redressed.

.

 

[Cypros]

Just a little clarification needed. A leotard is a one-piece body suit that covers from the neckline down to the crotch. Tights are the leggings that coer the waist down to the feet. Was JB wearing a leotard or tights under her clothes on Christmas night?

 

[Cypros]

Patsey seems to say she put them in JB's bathroom and then also say she put them in JB"s drawer.

Also, the bed did not look slept in. It is doubtful JB made her bed Christmas day, so it may have been made up for a couple of days. Perhaps she had been sleeping somewhere besides her own bed.

Here is a picture of JB's bed in the crime scene photos.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1133595#post1133595

To me, the bed looks as if it could have been slept in. 6 year olds do not take up the whole bed and thus do not necessarily mess the whole thing up as larger (taller) children do. Of course, we know that she did not sleep through the entire night so the disturbance to the bed as seen in the photo fit with the idea that she was in bed for a brief period and then got up, IMO. That is, of course, assuming that the bed had even been made on the 25th.

 

[Nehemiah]

Just a little clarification needed. A leotard is a one-piece body suit that covers from the neckline down to the crotch. Tights are the leggings that coer the waist down to the feet. Was JB wearing a leotard or tights under her clothes on Christmas night?

Well, not necessarily, Cypros.

tights: skintight knit hose covering the body from the waist to the feet worn by acrobats and dancers and as stockings by women and girls wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

When I was growing up, we always said "leotards". Now I hear tights/leotards used interchangeably.

I always assumed that she was wearing "tights" but I don't have a source at this time.

Jayelles, did you take a picture of the nylon tie that secured the Bloomies?

 

[rashomon]

Lets be litigious: Just think of somebody wishing to sexually abuse Jonbenet, what do they do?

Well possibly they may undress her from the waist down?

Now if you want to hide or attempt to mask this what might you do?

Wipe her down, clean her up, remove her current underwear, redress her in other underwear, and IF she was wearing leotards, something similar e.g. longjohns, oh and make the underwear a Wednesday pair?

Unless we are dealing with a genius of an intruder who can defy locard's principles, then I think its pretty obvious what happened the night JonBenet was killed, and it was no accident!

But these same steps could also have taken place in case JB had a soiling accident and one parent went into something like 'toilet rage', hitting her on the head: then too JB afterwards would have to be undressed from the waist down, (and if she was wearing leotards this would have left her barefoot), cleaned up, her dirty underwear removed, and redressed.

The sexual assault scene could then have been done for staging purposes to provide a false motive for the crime.
I personally believe that the person who wiped her down did this to inspect if the wound he/she had inflicted to her vagina looked 'convincing' enough.

I too think it is pretty obvious what happened to JonBenet, but that it was an 'accident' in the sense that the person who hit her, although being in a blind rage, did not mean to kill her. And then was left with a tragic "Oh my God, what have I done" situation.

 

[Eagle1]

Well, you could certainly be correct. I just don't see a woman doing that, though. Just like with JB having blue hair ties in her hair when found, yet she was wearing black, red, and white clothing. No good Southern mom would commit such a fashion faux pas.

That's a good point. PR being artistic, a painter, I think she'd have been conscious of the hair ties not matching, and probably so would JonBenet. She was pretty opinionated about what she wore.

And someone on p. 2 mentioned seeing Jayelles' pictures of the model she was making. Where was that? I didn't see any, or any link.

 

[rashomon]

Not that I believe for a moment that JB actually wore those size 12 panties to the Whites, but just a 'theoretical' explanation: if JB wore leotards between her panties and the black velvet pants, maybe this would have prevented fibers from the black pants from getting on her panties?

A question: there seems to be some discussion about 'leotards'. I always thought 'leotards' was a synonym for 'tights', but after looking up 'leotard' in my dictionary it says it's some kind of body suit often used for exercise or dancing.
Which was JB wearing, tights or a leotard body suit?

 

[UKGuy]

But these same steps could also have taken place in case JB had a soiling accident and one parent went into something like 'toilet rage', hitting her on the head: then too JB afterwards would have to be undressed from the waist down, (and if she was wearing leotards this would have left her barefoot), cleaned up, her dirty underwear removed, and redressed.

The sexual assault scene could then have been done for staging purposes to provide a false motive for the crime.
I personally believe that the person who wiped her down did this to inspect if the wound he/she had inflicted to her vagina looked 'convincing' enough.

I too think it is pretty obvious what happened to JonBenet, but that it was an 'accident' in the sense that the person who hit her, although being in a blind rage, did not mean to kill her. And then was left with a tragic "Oh my God, what have I done" situation.

rashomon,

Yes but I have already referenced that there was a soiled pair of underwear and jeans lying upstairs on the floor and that when discovered JonBenet was wet with urine. Not quite the scenario a toilet rage advocate would want?

I dont doubt there are similarities in approach to either theory, e.g. Toilet Rage or Sexual Abuse

Also why would a Toilet Rage stager require her to be wearing size-12 underwear, when she had a drawer full of size-6's upstairs?

If you are going to hide the toilet rage aspect then surely you get the underwear correct?

I think over the recent weeks I covered most of the items in the wine-cellar and demonstrated either that they have been staged or they have been removed. This is prima facia evidence that we are dealing with a staged homicide.

JonBenet's death was no accident since regardless of which sequence of events you propose, someone either whacked her on the head then deliberately strangled her, bear in mind all those contusions and abrasions on her neck, those are not accidental! Or the alternate sequence where she was strangled first then whacked on the head, the other circumstance where either occurs in parallel still means she was intended to be killed.

Someone tried to mask the circumstances surrounding her death by staging a homicide in the wine-cellar!

IMO a leotard is something gymnasts or pageant contestants may wear, I would expect JonBenet to normally wear either socks or tights. With it being xmas, she may have been wearing tights, but I have never seen this confirmed anywhere.




.