Skyla Whitaker, 11, & Taylor Placker 13 - Found Murdered - #4

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  • #201
ED said "Why not shoot them closer to the bridge? Interrupted by cars or passerbys? They are shot in seclusion and within 3 and a half minutes from reaching home."

irrational mind & spur of the moment

I think the shooter may have left home intent on shooting someone, perhaps have passed by the girls more than once on their trek but chose the victims & did the deed in a flash. As I said a couple posts back, I think the shooter is the POI & had just killed the girls when he realized another car was coming. He had to make eye contact or speak to them & say he wasn't broken down or whatever so they did not stop. He may have said he had gotten out of his truck to kill a snake.... lots of explanations. But he shot & killed for NO reason..... my theory only.

Then why stop at all? Why get out of your vehicle and shoot the girls with a second gun after they are down? Why even risk being seen outside the vehicle at all? Impulsive killers would shoot and RUN, not get out and go over and shoot them in the head after they are dead. The girls would be in no condition to ID the shooter after being shot several times in the body - WHY risk getting out and shooting them each again if you were "thrill killing"?

And I think the Perp was watching the house and was hanging in the area. He wouldn't shoot at the bridge (or close) because it was a hang-out and people were there almost all the time. Too public. He wanted a place to not just kill, but be able to leave his message. He chose the spot because it was close to Taylor's house, far enough from the busier bridge to escape notice and had enough brushy cover to allow him to finish his statement in privacy. It was also unlikely that anyone BUT someone else from the Placker house would confront him. He might have killed MORE people if someone hadn't seen him waiting.

In fact maybe his original idea was to shoot (not kill) the girls near the house and wait there to lure one (or all) of the adults out of the house unarmed and vulnerable so he could kill them ?? Maybe he only did the "kill shots" after he realized he was seen and had to leave before a more appropriate (adult) target arrived??? Was the shooting initially a LURE to get to someone else???

My Opinion
 
  • #202
we are becoming polarized in our theories, aren't we?

i hope whatever the answer, the dirty rotten scum is soon behind bars. I liked what uncle joe mosher said about his not needing personal revenge on the killer because someone in jail would see to that.
 
  • #203
Has anyone figured out what the connection between Joe Placker and Peter Placker is besides the same address? Could Joe be an alias for Peter? Although why would he use the same last name then. Could be his brother?
 
  • #204
Ok sending out another theory, What about the family being in the witness protection program?

This would explain :

Lack of baby phots,
Lack of pics with family members, because that could jepordize the family members still living.
Lack of family in media spotlight. Possibly family has been moved to secure location to ensure there safety.
And general lack of information on the family, and its past.

It may be far fetched, but thought I would throw it out here anyways.
 
  • #205
The reason I feel so strongly that this IS a "hit" (and related to the Placker family - as in the family in general was the TARGET) is because:

They (OSBI) are going to some trouble to protect, even shield, the families (who have been cleared) and the families are NOT taking part in the media campaign to find the killer. Even Skyla's family has been silent and absent from any media coverage -- we must ask ourselves why Skyla's family isn't speaking out - perhaps because they too are frightened and afraid of becoming targets - or becuase OSBI has advised them to remain silent? Something OSBI would do if they thought any publicity might prove incendiary to the killer and cause perhaps further acts of retaliation or "control" targeting the Whitaker family? Skyla's grandparents have been on several national tv shows and shown on local tv as well. They are not hiding. Neither is the Placker family as we have seen their spokesperson, Joe Mosher, on several interviews openly discussing this case. I do not for a second blame the parents for avoiding the press!! They are still in shock and trying to come to terms with the fact their girls were brutally murdered. They are not frightened or they would be in protective custody immediately. They certainly were not in any witness protection program as they would have been had they testified against a known gang of any kind. People around here don't like to be on television while mourning and who can blame them? You are out on a limb on this one.

The Memorial Video for Taylor released to the public contains not a single photo of Taylor with a family member- and many included photos were abviously taken at celebratory school events where one would assume her family was in attendance and yet there were no photos shown of those events with Taylor and at least ONE of her GP's. I have never seen a memorial video where there was not a single photo of a child victim with ANY family member - in Taylor's video there was not a single baby photo, not a single holiday photo, not a single school event photo containing her family, not a single photo of her with her siblings - in fact, there was not a single photo of Taylor more than a year or two old and not a single photo taken outside a school event or classroom. We don't know why they chose the photos they did. Perhaps the family left that task to others and maybe they had limited photos to choose from. We don't know if in the past they had flood, fire, tornado, or other situations where they lost their photos. I do not find it strange that there aren't family photos in the memorials. This is about Taylor and Skyla. They would want the focus to be on them. I think you are really reaching when we do not know even who put those together.

This was not (IMO) some "crack/meth head". The behavior shown by the killer (and also the POI) was NOT that of a fearful, whacked out, paranoid, impulsive strung out, tweaking person. This killing shows an unusual LACK of emotion and a level of planning. It was cold, calm, calculated and organized - the killer didn't just mow the girls down from the car and drive off, someone got out of the car and walked to the girls on the ground and shot them execution style - probably after they were dead. TWO GUNS were used - that's not the behavior of a "thrill killer" - that's the behavior of someone who is as invested in sending the MESSAGE to the survivors as in the killing itself. The killing itself seems almost secondary to the presentation of message because the killer risked a LOT to leave that message - something he did NOT have to do if killing the girls was his ONLY goal. You don't know the demeanor of this killer or killers. All we know is that the grandmother stated they believe that the girls were killed then a killer/killers unloaded their guns into them. I would have to assume they know more than we do about this. Yes, anytime you murder two innocent little girls there is a message and it is cold blooded. We don't know the motive. We don't know the demeanor only that he was acting "suspicious". This could mean he was hopping around on one foot! The guy could have been crazy, on drugs, or a score of other factors could play a role here. We do not know it was a "hit". I have known of more than one crackhead that was so paranoid they shot things up for perceived delusions. They were quite precise so you cannot tell.

Psychology of this scene says the killer didn't care so much about killing (or who he killed) but about the message the killing left behind. The deaths were only important as the medium to communicate the message and frankly, I don't think the killer cared WHO he killed - so long as the MESSAGE was clear and unmistakable to the target. Obviously, he didn't care about anyone or anything. It is a given with the brutality of the crime in broad daylight!

And I do think the murders are in some way connected to the Placker Family thru the Bandidos. Perhaps the Bandidos didn't order the hit - but I betcha the killer is related to someone in the Bandidos or is in the Bandidos. Somebody was "sending a message" to someone in the Placker family for some reason...and to do that they killed two girls who came out of the Placker house - don't think they cared WHO they were or HOW they were related. The message was clear and I think Taylor's G-PA knew this the minute he saw the bodies.

My Opinion
I am not saying it isn't possible, but I don't think we will find this to be the case when they do catch up to this 🤬🤬🤬. The casings would not have been left behind and things wouldn't be so unorganized if this were a true "hit". We need to be careful not to paint ourselves into a corner with innuendo and wild speculation, imo. Exploring all the possibilities is a good idea tho.
 
  • #206
we are becoming polarized in our theories, aren't we?

i hope whatever the answer, the dirty rotten scum is soon behind bars. I liked what uncle joe mosher said about his not needing personal revenge on the killer because someone in jail would see to that.

I am waxing and waning in mine.

Now I am not sure I even believe the gun charges on the other seven guys has anything to do with this crime. If that were true it seems to me the police would be pursuing that angle and they seem to still be at a loss when it comes to motive and so does Peter. The reporter on Fox from there said she interviewed him and he is still overcome with grief wanting to know why this happened. He said he didn't believe the girls came up on anything or saw something they shouldn't have.

I really don't have a clue who this guy is but I do believe he is the murderer of these children. I have heard of killers just killing someone they didn't even know just because the victims happened to be there and so was the opportunity.

I think this guy is long gone by now. He has had 8 days to flee. He could be in Mexico or Canada by now.

imoo
 
  • #207
another new name today .... January, welcome to ws!

i cannot answer your Q post #203. but in looking through arrest & court records, there were a few AKAs of other relatives.... & many in this family have nicknames. it's very confusing.
 
  • #208
I am not saying it isn't possible, but I don't think we will find this to be the case when they do catch up to this 🤬🤬🤬. The casings would not have been left behind and things wouldn't be so unorganized if this were a true "hit". We need to be careful not to paint ourselves into a corner with innuendo and wild speculation, imo. Exploring all the possibilities is a good idea tho.

I completely agree, Seriously Searching. I've been trying to look outside the "box", as it were.

What did this family do over the weekend? Did they go to any events in the area? Heck, even a Mall?

I would like to know what the family did between Saturday to Sunday late afternoon. It may mean something or nothing. However, it would be helpful to know where they may have been over a 24 hour period.

I do not believe the extended family, on any level (I know, I've stated this before), are involved.

IMVHO....
 
  • #209
Just wanted to remind you of the great site listing a lot of the OK news outlets in one place: http://www.oknewsline.com/ The newbies might have missed it previously when I posted it. It is updated every time they update the websites. I did notice it doesn't have www.newsok.com, but it is still helpful.
 
  • #210
I think the reason that most of the pictures are school pictures is that someone besides family took them. Some families are not picture takers. I go around with a camera all the time, but I know that a lot of people do not take pictures often. A lot of people take pictures of school events and this is probably where the pictures came from. So it wouldn't be to protect the family. There just may not be many family pictures.
 
  • #211
Ok sending out another theory, What about the family being in the witness protection program?

This would explain :

Lack of baby photos,
Lack of pics with family members, because that could jepordize the family members still living.
Lack of family in media spotlight. Possibly family has been moved to secure location to ensure there safety.
And general lack of information on the family, and its past.

It may be far fetched, but thought I would throw it out here anyways.

Ahhh I am so glad someone else was thinking along those lines also. I was going for the parents of Taylor's possibly being in some sort of protection program, not wanting their child to live that type of life gave her to the grand parents. Maybe????:waitasec:

That would explain the missing info and parents, for the life of me I cannot figure out who her parents are. No matter what the circumstance's or relationship's hell nor high water could keep me from the funeral of my child. Unless my life or family's life was in danger even then someone or something pretty powerful would have to be standing in my way. The memorial video of Taylor's was a little odd indeed. It was almost as if their was no history of her up until the last couple of years.
But also if her parents were addicts (pure speculation on my part) of some kind I think that would explain the lack of photo's and typical family type things during her younger years also an explanation as to why the grandparents are now gaurdians of Taylor's. Photo's are not always a top priority in that type of situation.

Certainly it has crossed my mind that Taylors biological mother could be her sister??????:confused:
 
  • #212
The family's computer was removed by LE. Someone other than them probably did a power point presentation with photos gathered by friends etc. to help the family. They would not have access to older photos in this instance.
 
  • #213
I don't think the family ever imagined that something like this would happen to them. I think they just wanted away from the crime and drama in their family and figured moving where they did would be enough.
 
  • #214
  • #215
Just wanted to remind you of the great site listing a lot of the OK news outlets in one place: http://www.oknewsline.com/ The newbies might have missed it previously when I posted it. It is updated every time they update the websites. I did notice it doesn't have www.newsok.com, but it is still helpful.

Thanks, SS, but I do not remember nor see anything that states what the family did over the entire weekend together. I believe all that was shared/discussed was that the angels had a sleepover. Nothing that went into what the family (angels did) over a 24-36 hour period.

I would like to know of a more precise weekend doings these people enjoyed before the murders. Like I stated, it may mean something or nothing. Just like to cross all the "T's" as it were. Perhaps as time goes by, LE will share more with the media in terms of a timeline prior to the murders.
 
  • #216
The family's computer was removed by LE. Someone other than them probably did a power point presentation with photos gathered by friends etc. to help the family. They would not have access to older photos in this instance.

Good point all my photos are on my computer also I would be at a loss to try and produce casual pictures of my children with out it, just the school, prom, type pictures displyed on my walls just like the ones diplayed in Taylor's tribute. Absolutely.
 
  • #217
Mods please delete if this is against TOs. This is a public document. Okhttp://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/casesearch.asp?query=true&srch=0&web=true&db=all&icasetype=&iDATEL=&iDATEH=&iCLOSEDL=&iCLOSEDH=&number=&iLast=Placker&iFirst=Joe&iMiddle=&iID=&iDOBL=&iDOBH=&SearchType=0&iDCPT=&iDCType=0&iYear=&iNumber=&icitation=lahoma County District CourtsCase # Date Filed StyleFound Party21 Record(s) Found.CJ-1997-346405/20/1997NEAL CAROLYN ET AL VS PLACKER JOEPLACKER, JOE (Defendant)CJ-1997-346505/20/1997WALOS KEVIN ET AL VS NEAL CAROLYN ET ALPLACKER, JOE (Defendant)CJ-1998-840011/18/1998NEAL MILTON INDIVIDUALLY AND A VS NEAL CAROLYN ET ALPLACKER, JOE (Defendant)FD-1999-101202/18/1999STATE OF OKLAHOMA EX REL VS PLACKER JOE RICHARD JRPLACKER, JOE RICHARD JR (Defendant)SC-1997-692204/09/1997EMERGENCY MEDICAL SVCS AKA VS PLACKER JOE JRPLACKER, JOE JR (Defendant)ML-1993-622411/23/1993IN RE: The Marriage of DAVIS ANN MARIE and PLACKER,JR JOE RICHARDPLACKER, JOE RICHARD JR. (Male Applicant)SC-2000-2310212/01/2000Joe Richard Placker v. John Scott Killip EDNA LEE KILLIP Placker, Joe Richard (Plaintiff)PO-2002-145305/29/2002ANN M PLACKER/MINORS v. JOE RICHARD JR PLACKER PLACKER, JOE RICHARD JR (Defendant)SC-2002-1434608/05/2002Kenneth D OHagan v. Joe Placker ANN PLACKER Placker, Joe (Defendant)PO-2003-147806/02/2003Placker, Joe R. Sr. v. Placker, Cissy Kay Placker, Joe R. Sr. (Plaintiff)ML-2003-373607/10/2003In Re the marriage of DEBORAH KAYE PARKER and JOE RICHARD PLACKER PLACKER, JOE RICHARD (Male Applicant)TR-2004-1174705/11/2004State of Oklahoma v. PLACKER, JOE RICHARD PLACKER, JOE RICHARD (Defendant)TR-2004-1586006/16/2004State of Oklahoma v. PLACKER, JOE RICHARD PLACKER, JOE RICHARD (Defendant)CF-2004-392907/14/2004STATE OF OKLAHOMA v. Joe Richard Placker Sr Placker, Joe Richard Sr (Defendant)PO-2004-176307/19/2004Placker, Ann v. Placker, Joe Richard JRPlacker, Joe Richard JR (Defendant)PO-2004-260410/20/2004Ann Marie Placker MINOR CHILDREN v. Joe Richard Placker JR Placker, Joe Richard JR (Defendant)FD-2005-43802/01/2005In re the Marriage of: Placker, Ann Marie and Placker, Joe Richard JrPlacker, Joe Richard Jr (Respondent)FD-2007-108102/28/2007In re the Marriage of: Placker, Deborah K and Placker, Joe RPlacker, Joe R (Respondent)SC-2007-1704508/08/2007Integris Southwest Medical Center v. Placker, DeborahPLACKER, JOE (Defendant)CS-2008-49101/14/2008Bank Of Oklahoma NA v. Placker, Joe Richard SrPlacker, Joe Richard Sr (Defendant)CM-2008-255406/10/2008
 
  • #218
Interestingly enough, Joe's latest arrest was for MONEY :

Count as Filed: BC, OBTAINING MONEY OR PROPERTY BY MEANS OF A FALSE AND BOGUS CHECK , in violation of 21 O.S. 1521-1541
Date Of Offense: 09/04/2003

Party Name:Disposition Information:
Defendant: PLACKER, JOE RICHARD JR

Pending.
 
  • #219
This new information about a biker connection doesn't necessarily mean a biker gang had anything officially to do with this. It may just be more info that Taylor's family could have had contact with some very rough people.

So my guess is it was someone who had a run-in with someone in the family. It could very easily be a lone wolf.

This is what I'm leaning towards because of the type of people the family was associated with. Not necessarily a biker gang. Not that it isn't a possibility, but it could be anyone the family had criminal contact with over the years. The thought has occured to me that it could be someone recently released from prison that wanted to settle a score.

If the above is in any way true, how sad. By all accounts grandma and grandpa wanted a different life for Taylor and themselves.
 
  • #220
Skyla's video had a ton of photos with her family - in fact it was MOSTLY of her with the family. Taylor's had not a single photo of her with her family or taken anywhere but at school - and there were photos taken at school events like the crowning of a "King and Queen type event with Taylor all dressed up wearing a crown - where surely her GP's were there and surely someone (the school, the boy's parents?) would have gotten a pic with Taylor and her family in it. I think it was intentional to exclude every single family member from the public video for a reason.

And yeah, the perp could be anybody, but I don't think it was. Stranger killings of children not associated with sexual assault or kidnapping are very rare - especially "execution style" killings of TWO girls in a rural area 300 yards from home.

The lack of progress says it isn't a local or someone known to a local.

And I am wondering if the girls were used as "bait" to get to someone else? Did the perp "wound them" so they would call GP and then have to kill them because people drove by and saw him. GP was looking for the girls pretty quickly...why?? Did he get a call? Is that why he found them so fast and said "they killed them"? Was the perp after someone else and only holding the girls as bait? Is that why they didn't run and were found lying 5' apart? Is that why a smaller cailber gun was used 1st and then a "kill shot"? I just have to speculate, but I think we (the public) are NOT being told the whole story here and I don't think this was some local nutjob running around looking for someone to shoot because he was playing a real-life video game either.

The Placker Family may be the key to why this happened - but it is NO FAULT OF THEIRS that it did. They were not doing ANYTHING that warranted Taylor and Skyla's deaths and by all evidence were not living a criminal life or involved with criminals in Weleetka. I am in no way accusing the family of responsibility or guilt here. If they were associated with the Bandidos ONCE, they did ALL the right things - they left and took the family to a better environment and away from the criminal influences. Criminals are just that tho - and there is no honor among thieves and murderers. Sometimes you cannot run far enough far enough to escape no matter what you do.

And Witness Protection is FEDERAL not State - there is no WP program (as in new identity, support etc) for state witnesses. They can be given protection or held in a safe house before trial, but they do not get a new identity or support after. WP (like on TV) is pretty much a myth except in rare cases, usually BIG cases, not testifying against the Bandidos on a cigartette and gun arrest in OKLAHOMA. If the Plackers did testify or were involved it would have been up to THEM to relocate and start over the best way they could.

The reality - and my gut and logical mind tell me this was not random or a "crazy unhinged killer" scenario.There is not one iota of evidence the girls "saw" something or did something that a stranger would have felt endangered him to the point he had to get in his truck and drive down the road a half-mile, stop the truck in the middle of the road and shoot them a dozen times with two guns - including a "kill shot" requiring him to get out and stand OVER them. The POI LET passersby see him and his vehicle clearly without reacting the THEM at all. Mr shoot-em up would have shot at the witnesses too if he was so afraid of being seen.

And I am still not sure the main witness in this isn't GP Placker....any word on where the GP's are?? Is ANYONE living in the Placker house? I have a feeling they are in PC or "gone away".

My Opinion
 
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