Sleepover turns tragic: Relatives mourn 11-year-old girls killed by carbon monoxide

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  • #61
It mentioned that there had been a previous accident with thisd vehichle. Now I'm wondering how long ago that was and if the mother was injured and if she might have been on some medication because of it.
I hope they are able to determin just what and how this happened!

VB
 
  • #62
This is a quote from an article above. I don't knwo how to quote partial posts.
Detectives say they'll run tests on the vehicle to try and validate Wilson's claim that the engine wouldn't stop running even after she'd turned off the ignition.


So it sounds like she turned off the ignition and the car didn't turn off. That makes sense that the keys were on the counter and the car was off. It could have quit on it's own. Still dumb of her to just leave it in a closed garage though.
 
  • #63
It just doesn't add up. It's hard to imagine anyone being stupid enough to leave a vehicle running in a closed garage. Was she thinking it would fix itself?
 
  • #64
IF the information is eventually released to support this was a remote-start ignition set-up like what Mendara mentioned above...things start to make a little more sense.

Two things to consider, FWIW:
  • Per examples listed here gas usage when car is idle? - General [M]ayhem fuel use @ idle seems to be ~0.5 gallons/hr depending on several factors...but decent rule of thumb
  • Depending on the specific year/engine model, etc. the fuel tank capacity for a Ford Escape ~15 gallons
  • To run from 10:30PM=>9AM MAX case would be 10.5 hrs = 5.25 gallons consumed which is < half-tank...so tank didn't even have to be full to be found as-is
  • IF not a hybrid and running solely as an internal combustion engine...the oxygen-depleting situation in the garage could ultimately explain why the SUV wasn't running when discovered in the morning. IOW...air is typically made up of 21% the oxygen form we breath (O2) and engines burn (most of the rest is nitrogen, N2). As O2 is converted to carbon monoxide, CO, by the engine in the garage it means there's eventually not enough O2 left to keep the engine running and it stalls.
  • Carbon monixide has nearly the same density as air...so it gets dispersed with air. IOW..it doesn't selectively float to the ceiling or fall to the floor...it mixes with air. So...in addition to their body's likely physical size difference, hence slightly better ability of a larger adult to withstand longer exposure to CO than a child...the adult's distance from the garage may explain why she survived and the children didn't. Location of the air ducts in the house could've played a factor too. IOW...bedrooms/kitchen closer to the garage...and/or air ducts favoring air circulation may explain a survivor.
 
  • #65
BondJamesBond said:
IF the information is eventually released to support this was a remote-start ignition set-up like what Mendara mentioned above...things start to make a little more sense.

Two things to consider, FWIW:
  • Per examples listed here gas usage when car is idle? - General [M]ayhem fuel use @ idle seems to be ~0.5 gallons/hr depending on several factors...but decent rule of thumb
  • Depending on the specific year/engine model, etc. the fuel tank capacity for a Ford Escape ~15 gallons
  • To run from 10:30PM=>9AM MAX case would be 10.5 hrs = 5.25 gallons consumed which is < half-tank...so tank didn't even have to be full to be found as-is
  • IF not a hybrid and running solely as an internal combustion engine...the oxygen-depleting situation in the garage could ultimately explain why the SUV wasn't running when discovered in the morning. IOW...air is typically made up of 21% the oxygen form we breath (O2) and engines burn (most of the rest is nitrogen, N2). As O2 is converted to carbon monoxide, CO, by the engine in the garage it means there's eventually not enough O2 left to keep the engine running and it stalls.
  • Carbon monixide has nearly the same density as air...so it gets dispersed with air. IOW..it doesn't selectively float to the ceiling or fall to the floor...it mixes with air. So...in addition to their body's likely physical size difference, hence slightly better ability of a larger adult to withstand longer exposure to CO than a child...the adult's distance from the garage may explain why she survived and the children didn't. Location of the air ducts in the house could've played a factor too. IOW...bedrooms/kitchen closer to the garage...and/or air ducts favoring air circulation may explain a survivor.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the wonderful information. Your information does provide a number of this to consider.
 
  • #66
http://ad.doubleclick.net/ad/trb.sunsentinel/news/local/breakingnews;rs=10009;rs=10011;rs=10026;rs=10031;rs=10032;rs=10035;rs=10036;rs=10038;rs=10039;rs=10040;rs=10042;rs=10043;rs=10045;rs=10050;rs=10052;rs=10055;rs=10077;rs=10086;rs=10088;rs=10092;rs=10094;rs=10107;rs=10108;ptype=s;slug=sfl-sheriff-office-carbon-monoxide-060309;rg=ur;ref=sun-sentinelcom;🤬🤬🤬=s;sz=1x1;tile=2;at=Wal-Mart%20Stores%20Inc;at=Palm%20Beach%20County%20Sheriff%27s%20Office;at=Vehicles;at=Services%20and%20Shopping;u=http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/sfl-sheriff-office-carbon-monoxide-060309,0,5399148.story;ord=88592500?
Sheriff's Office: Mother didn't say she left SUV running overnight

The Palm Beach County Sheriff's Office has retracted statements that a mother whose daughter and schoolmate died of carbon monoxide poisoning told detectives that she left her SUV running in a closed garage because it wouldn't turn off.

"She never said to us that she left it running," said Teri Barbera, spokeswoman for the Palm Beach County Sheriff's Office.

Barbera acknowledged that her office was the source of the confusion, but declined to elaborate on exactly what happened with the SUV. She said the matter is still being investigated.
 
  • #67
Marie said:
http://ad.doubleclick.net/ad/trb.sunsentinel/news/local/breakingnews;rs=10009;rs=10011;rs=10026;rs=10031;rs=10032;rs=10035;rs=10036;rs=10038;rs=10039;rs=10040;rs=10042;rs=10043;rs=10045;rs=10050;rs=10052;rs=10055;rs=10077;rs=10086;rs=10088;rs=10092;rs=10094;rs=10107;rs=10108;ptype=s;slug=sfl-sheriff-office-carbon-monoxide-060309;rg=ur;ref=sun-sentinelcom;🤬🤬🤬=s;sz=1x1;tile=2;at=Wal-Mart%20Stores%20Inc;at=Palm%20Beach%20County%20Sheriff%27s%20Office;at=Vehicles;at=Services%20and%20Shopping;u=http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/sfl-sheriff-office-carbon-monoxide-060309,0,5399148.story;ord=88592500?
Sheriff's Office: Mother didn't say she left SUV running overnight

The Palm Beach County Sheriff's Office has retracted statements that a mother whose daughter and schoolmate died of carbon monoxide poisoning told detectives that she left her SUV running in a closed garage because it wouldn't turn off.

"She never said to us that she left it running," said Teri Barbera, spokeswoman for the Palm Beach County Sheriff's Office.

Barbera acknowledged that her office was the source of the confusion, but declined to elaborate on exactly what happened with the SUV. She said the matter is still being investigated.
Click to expand...


Thanks, PBSO, for telling us NOW, LOL.

Aye, aye, aye.
 
  • #68
Ok......so then what DID happen?
 
  • #69
Hooboy that changes everything.
 
  • #70
Color me confused.

How does this stay out in the media without being corrected for this long?
 
  • #71
I wonder if by chance, one of the girls was playing with the car, started it, couldn't shut it off and??????????

I know that occasionally I drive my son's pick up truck, a Nissan, and it has a button that you have to push when retrieving the key from the ignition. The first couple of times I used his vehicle, I had difficulty in removing the key. At one point I was even a little paniced, until I figured it out. Fortunately, though, the truck turned off, I just couldn't remove the key until I finally figured it out.

I hope that woman wasn't trying to commit suicide. :(......I do know of someone who did that, but they ran a hose from the vehicle into their bedroom. They were found in bed, with their dog. :(

JMHO
fran
 
  • #72
Wow. WTF?

Why change the story now? If LE is making this statement now, is it because the mom has changed her story? I mean where does the confusion lie? This story has been out in the media a few days now. Why wouldn't you catch the issue immediately? And if mom did change her story why not say there are inconsistencies?

I'm puzzled fo' sure.
 
  • #73
From what I read SM, IIRC the LE in that jurisdiction has taken the responsibility for the incorrect info saying it originated from within them.

Man, that's some bad juju. Especially if it comes out to be a faulty appliance or something within the home.

No updates that I can find. I'd like to know what really happened.
 
  • #74
I hear ya, Kat but for that statement to come from them.....it had to come from SOMEWHERE before they stated it, KWIM? I mean investigators wouldn't just show up, see the keys on the kitchen counter and from that, surmise the car ran all night and that was the cause of the carbon monoxide. Makes no sense right? If anything seeing the keys on the counter would lead them to believe something ELSE was the cause of the problem.
 
  • #75
  • #76
LE still suspect the SUV as the source. I'm not familiar with remote starters. Have they been behind any other accidents? I could see how a remote starter could be a big problem. Aren't they usually used by people in cold climates though? I keep thinking of how teeny tiny tots love to play with keys.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localnews/content/local_news/epaper/2009/06/03/0603girlsdead.html

(snip)
Alexander said investigators still suspect the Ford was the source of the carbon monoxide. The case remains under investigation.
 
  • #77
http://www.newsinferno.com/archives/3577

(snip)
According to Autostart, if a defective remote starter is installed in a vehicle with a manual transmission and the transmission is left in gear with the handbrake engaged, the vehicle could lunge forward while attempting to start. Unintended starting of the vehicle engine in a confined space could also lead to exhaust build up and pose a risk of carbon monoxide asphyxiation. These situations have the potential to cause damage to the vehicle and surrounding property or cause serious personal injury.
Autostart has determined that the root cause of the unintentional start issue is a software problem. Specifically, the main module can unintentionally enter the programming mode and if, while in programming mode, the unit receives an arrant RF signal, the vehicle could start. This problem has been corrected and does not affect units sold after the date of this notice.
Consumers with a recalled remote starter should contact their installing dealer as soon as possible to make arrangements for an inspection, so that the dealer may verify that you have an affected system and replace the unit if necessary. Until the unit is inspected, consumers should disconnect the antenna to prevent RF signals. The antenna can be found mounted on the windshield, often behind the mirror, and can be disconnected by disengaging the antenna cable plugged into the antenna.
 
  • #78
SuziQ said:
LE still suspect the SUV as the source. I'm not familiar with remote starters. Have they been behind any other accidents? I could see how a remote starter could be a big problem. Aren't they usually used by people in cold climates though? I keep thinking of how teeny tiny tots love to play with keys.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localnews/content/local_news/epaper/2009/06/03/0603girlsdead.html

(snip)
Alexander said investigators still suspect the Ford was the source of the carbon monoxide. The case remains under investigation.
Click to expand...

I don't have a remote starter so I don't know but I'm wondering because SuziQ's post has me thinking....is it easy to trip off a remote starter? If you were fumbling around in your purse or pocket for something else, could you accidentally hit the button on your starter that would turn the car on? And if so, perhaps with your garage door closed and you already in the house for the night maybe you wouldn't hear it?

Just throwin' it out there....
 
  • #79
SuziQ said:
LE still suspect the SUV as the source. I'm not familiar with remote starters. Have they been behind any other accidents? I could see how a remote starter could be a big problem. Aren't they usually used by people in cold climates though? I keep thinking of how teeny tiny tots love to play with keys.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localnews/content/local_news/epaper/2009/06/03/0603girlsdead.html

(snip)
Alexander said investigators still suspect the Ford was the source of the carbon monoxide. The case remains under investigation.
Click to expand...

My brother is an engineer for a pipeline company and has one of those remote starters because he sometimes works in northern states where there is ice and snow. Wisconsin last year and New York state this year. He starts his truck by remote so that the ice and snow will melt off of the windshield and the interior will be warm.

It is not factory installed. I doubt that anyone in Florida would need anything like this, tho.

This is a mystery and tragedy that needs to be cleared up like NOW!
 
  • #80
I have a 2001 Ford Escape with a remote start. It is not factory installed. To use it, I have to hold a specific button on my remote for 3 continuous seconds. The car shuts off automatically in 15 minutes if you do not put your key in and turn the key to the Start position. It's a safety mechanism so that accidents don't happen. My mom has a new Escape with a factory installed remote start, I will have to ask her how easy it would be to accidently start it and if it turns itself off after a set amount of time.
 
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