Sleuthing Cindy's Depo & Baez Objections to Sealed Items

[magic-cat]

It IS possible I think when Cindy read the autopsy report and saw 18 teeth, she went and researched it to see how many we were supposed to have, saw the number 20 and said, well, Caylee had the right number of teeth so THREE must be missing...instead of the CURIOUS #1...I can just hear inside of Cindy's head telling herself that Caylee was perfect and normal in every way and of course she had 20 teeth, why wouldn't she? Maybe some of her molars had not come through? I think the ME will know if indeed there were still baby teeth that had yet to erupt, yes?

 

[Curious Me]

ON this particular subject...who counts their kids teeth after say the first ten or so? I mean, you may notice they are there, but how many of us actually count as each tooth erupts? I sure did not, and I have had this lovely experience six times already. I do not know how many any of my children have right this minute...Who KNOWS that?:waitasec:

And the more I hear about this tooth, and the fact it was NOT found and should NOT have been out of her mouth the more I wonder where that tooth went...and how it got out of her mouth, and IF it was THE tooth from the list, HOW it got back in the possession of the Anthony family...:waitasec:

Exactly. I'm asking the same questions.

I guess CA could have counted Caylee's teeth when helping her brush, but I really wish she used her time meeting that nanny and finding out why her daughter kept stealing money. What I'm saying is CA didn't know the important things, so why would she know the exact number of teeth Caylee currently had.

Maybe JB was worried if CA was on the subject of the Spiderman toothbrush, she was going to ramble on about finding a tooth? We don't know for sure she did find a tooth under the car seat, but I do know for sure if she did she would have tried to hold back that item.

Just thinking here - even if you got punched in the face your tooth usually wouldn't just fall out, and they'd be some blood. I would think if this tooth had anything to do with the case that we would have heard more about it. Curious to know what all of you think.

 

[marspiter]

The autopsy report confirms only 1 tooth is missing and the rest remain in the mandible. Why would Cindy claim she had 20 erupted teeth when the medical examiner can clearly see she did not? The ONLY reason I can think of is that Cindy would like you to believe there are 3 teeth missing (one front and 2 back molars).. instead of one front tooth which would appear more suspicious of trauma.. The soft tissue was gone..so no sign of trauma would be noted.. it is doubtful if the bone would show trauma of a tooth knocked out..unless the tooth broke and the root remained...which it does not appear to be so. The whole tooth is gone, otherwise a root would have been noted.

Not sure if this has been discussed but to my knowledge a child of 2 wouldn't have roots the way an adult tooth would. Not sure what barring if any that would have but just thought I would throw that out there.

 

[Insomnia Momma]

Is this about the car seat true? Where did you find this information?

Wonder if LE knows about this switcharoo?

The car seats would have been switched before LE picked up the car and there would have been no reason for CA to switch the seats unless there was something incriminating about it.

Where would the other car seat be now? Surely not in CA's car?

Do we know for sure that the car seat was in the car when GA picked it up?

Wow.....just wow if this is correct information.

It's my opinion that either CA was mistaken or that she intentionally told a "mistruth" ( wanna bet which one I think it is? LOL)

Looking back on photographs of KCs this morning showed the carseat Caylee was sitting in IN KCs car had Eddie Bauer written right on the top of it. These pics can be found in the IMAGES ONLY NO DISCUSSION thread here in the sticky forum.


What I can't figure out is why CA would lie about it?! I mean, how could that info help KC? Maybe it's a question we'll get an answer to after we get the results on the forensics from the carseat? I don't believe I've seen any yet. :waitasec:

 

[AZlawyer]

It's my opinion that either CA was mistaken or that she intentionally told a "mistruth" ( wanna bet which one I think it is? LOL)

Looking back on photographs of KCs this morning showed the carseat Caylee was sitting in IN KCs car had Eddie Bauer written right on the top of it. These pics can be found in the IMAGES ONLY NO DISCUSSION thread here in the sticky forum.


What I can't figure out is why CA would lie about it?! I mean, how could that info help KC? Maybe it's a question we'll get an answer to after we get the results on the forensics from the carseat? I don't believe I've seen any yet. :waitasec:

I don't really see any conflict. Both car seats could have been Eddie Bauer.

 

[lizzysf]

I don't really see any conflict. Both car seats could have been Eddie Bauer.

Only that one is black and white and the other is brown..

 

[BeanE]

Okay, after much study of Cindy's depo (more than I ever hoped to do of any depo lol), I've concluded there are two separate and distinct issues/objections here. This is in regards to issue/objection #2. (I've written up issue/objection #1 too, but it's really too long to post and I have to figure out how to condense it.)

Relevant pages of Cindy's depo: http://www.docstoc.com/docs/13348352/Cindy_BaezObjections_SealedStuff

Note: n/n = page/line

- 503/1 SA asks if Cindy saw Casey take anything from the garage out of the house (SA does not specify to Baez)

- Important! 503/7 SA asks if Cindy observed Casey "gathering up photographs or videos, anything like that, images of Caylee?". Cindy

says yes.

- 503/11 Baez interrupts Cindy's 'yes', objects, and asks to go off record. SAs Burdick and Ashton say it should be on record.

Finally SAs and Baez agree to go off record only for Baez to talk to his "co-counsel" (Lyon, I assume?)

- 506/1 Back on record and Baez: "It's our position that this is an area that's going to be in violation of a court order.

We're asking if you guys would like to discuss it off the record. If you don't, and you want to continue and proceed, we're

going to ask that we suspend the deposition until we can get guidance from the Court."

- Discussion continues.

- 507/6 SA and Baez agree Baez' concern is not that SA will discover something they don't know, but that the public will discover something they don't know. hmmmmmm.

- 507/16 SA states therefore there's no reason to suspend the depo, and 507/23 Lyon disagrees.

- Important! 508/1 Lyon: "this information will make its way into the public wheel some kind of way once the question is answered."

Okay, let's go back and look at the question again: 503/7 SA asks if Cindy observed Casey "gathering up photographs or videos, anything like that, images of Caylee?". Cindy says yes. ("Yeah. She --")

Hmmmm... There's the question. And there's the answer.

- Finally, after more discussion, Baez states he will take it to the Court for a ruling. There is agreement that Cindy will come back if the Court says the question is appropriate.

- 511/4 SA moves on with the depo to duct tape question, and the issue is not brought up again.


Conclusion:
- Baez' objection was based on a court order to seal.
- The only court order to seal that is pertinent to the question asked and objected is regarding how the defense is getting paid.
- The question was asked, and answered. The information is now "in the public wheel".
- The defense team is getting paid by Casey selling photos, videos, and/or images of her murdered daughter, Caylee.

MOO

 

[lizzysf]

I don't really see any conflict. Both car seats could have been Eddie Bauer.

Pic of Caylee in car... the black carseat (Casey's) is also an Eddie Bauer.
http://a11news.com/images/caylee-anthony-missing.jpg

Cindy says her carseat is a brown and tan Eddie Bauer. If you look at the pic of Casey's black carseat is says Eddie Bauer right across the seat...you really think Cindy (who likely purchased it) wouldn't remember that?

Read about the carseat discussions on Cindy's depo... Part I pages 67 and 68.

Something is Hinky here.. especially since Cindy starts crying when discussing the carseat. I think she pulled a switcharoo..
Anyone locate the carseat on the list from LE from the search warrant with description of color?

 

[kew17]

I am reposting a link to a PDF file where you can save the article for yourself...If you compare the picture of KC with Caylee in THE shirt and then the one of her and Ricardo puckering up for the camera, I think you will see these were in the same time frame...anyhow hope that helps! XOXO
http://viewer.zoho.com/docs/izbFg

Thank you so much Magic! You're a gem!:blowkiss:

After reading this I scratch my head....:waitasec:....Cindy's blood found in the car? That was a new one for me.

About the tooth: Does anyone remember the lady who came and salvaged through the A's trash? She had pictures of the contents and among them were the Shamrock cap, notes from Websleuths and pages torn from a baby book. Something about Baby's firsts... or a list of firsts.

I'ma gonna do some digging to bring back references to this. Always wondered WHY any parent/grandparent would throw something like this away?!

 

[Dihan]

Is this about the car seat true? Where did you find this information?

Wonder if LE knows about this switcharoo?

The car seats would have been switched before LE picked up the car and there would have been no reason for CA to switch the seats unless there was something incriminating about it.

Where would the other car seat be now? Surely not in CA's car?

Do we know for sure that the car seat was in the car when GA picked it up?

Wow.....just wow if this is correct information.

Cindy seat the car seat is in the attic (in the garage) here in florida we have some storage space over the garage) she said this in her depo

 

[static]

The tooth thing is really bugging me as well. My teenage son simply got hit in the face with a basketball and his front tooth almost came out. He has perfectly healthy teeth. For all we know that little girl was hit with something, or got shoved and knocked into something. That front tooth is in someones possession IMO. Again, I think George found it, in the car. Wouldn't be real hard to hide.

 

[static]

Thank you so much Magic! You're a gem!:blowkiss:

After reading this I scratch my head....:waitasec:....Cindy's blood found in the car? That was a new one for me.

About the tooth: Does anyone remember the lady who came and salvaged through the A's trash? She had pictures of the contents and among them were the Shamrock cap, notes from Websleuths and pages torn from a baby book. Something about Baby's firsts... or a list of firsts.

I'ma gonna do some digging to bring back references to this. Always wondered WHY any parent/grandparent would throw something like this away?!

I tried to copy and paste from the article, but it will not let me do that. I believe they were talking about the Pontiac Sunfire belonging to Cindy...not the blood. I do not remember any of the forensic documents saying there was any blood in the car. Maybe that info has not been released yet.

 

[lizzysf]

I tried to copy and paste from the article, but it will not let me do that. I believe they were talking about the Pontiac Sunfire belonging to Cindy...not the blood. I do not remember any of the forensic documents saying there was any blood in the car. Maybe that info has not been released yet.

Unless it was only on the carseat and Cindy switched carseats or washed the cover.

 

[static]

Thank you so much Magic! You're a gem!:blowkiss:

After reading this I scratch my head....:waitasec:....Cindy's blood found in the car? That was a new one for me.

About the tooth: Does anyone remember the lady who came and salvaged through the A's trash? She had pictures of the contents and among them were the Shamrock cap, notes from Websleuths and pages torn from a baby book. Something about Baby's firsts... or a list of firsts.

I'ma gonna do some digging to bring back references to this. Always wondered WHY any parent/grandparent would throw something like this away?!

Yep, in some baby books it has a chart identical to this one
http://www.wholesometoddlerfood.com/images/toothchart.jpg
My kids have one like it and you write in the age the particular tooth came in. Perhaps, again, hiding the fact that there were only 18 teeth that had come in...not 20.

 

[Truth Seeker]

Okay, after much study of Cindy's depo (more than I ever hoped to do of any depo lol), I've concluded there are two separate and distinct issues/objections here. This is in regards to issue/objection #2. (I've written up issue/objection #1 too, but it's really too long to post and I have to figure out how to condense it.)

Relevant pages of Cindy's depo: http://www.docstoc.com/docs/13348352/Cindy_BaezObjections_SealedStuff

Note: n/n = page/line

- 503/1 SA asks if Cindy saw Casey take anything from the garage out of the house (SA does not specify to Baez)

- Important! 503/7 SA asks if Cindy observed Casey "gathering up photographs or videos, anything like that, images of Caylee?". Cindy

says yes.

- 503/11 Baez interrupts Cindy's 'yes', objects, and asks to go off record. SAs Burdick and Ashton say it should be on record.

Finally SAs and Baez agree to go off record only for Baez to talk to his "co-counsel" (Lyon, I assume?)

- 506/1 Back on record and Baez: "It's our position that this is an area that's going to be in violation of a court order.

We're asking if you guys would like to discuss it off the record. If you don't, and you want to continue and proceed, we're

going to ask that we suspend the deposition until we can get guidance from the Court."

- Discussion continues.

- 507/6 SA and Baez agree Baez' concern is not that SA will discover something they don't know, but that the public will discover something they don't know. hmmmmmm.

- 507/16 SA states therefore there's no reason to suspend the depo, and 507/23 Lyon disagrees.

- Important! 508/1 Lyon: "this information will make its way into the public wheel some kind of way once the question is answered."

Okay, let's go back and look at the question again: 503/7 SA asks if Cindy observed Casey "gathering up photographs or videos, anything like that, images of Caylee?". Cindy says yes. ("Yeah. She --")

Hmmmm... There's the question. And there's the answer.

- Finally, after more discussion, Baez states he will take it to the Court for a ruling. There is agreement that Cindy will come back if the Court says the question is appropriate.

- 511/4 SA moves on with the depo to duct tape question, and the issue is not brought up again.


Conclusion:
- Baez' objection was based on a court order to seal.
- The only court order to seal that is pertinent to the question asked and objected is regarding how the defense is getting paid.
- The question was asked, and answered. The information is now "in the public wheel".
- The defense team is getting paid by Casey selling photos, videos, and/or images of her murdered daughter, Caylee.

MOO

BINGO!

pg.8 is where Mr. Ashton says "We're on. We're on. (still on the record) Perhaps I can suggest that you limit your answer simply to the physical items. Because the question was "WHAT ITEMS WERE GIVEN" rather then an explanation of WHY!

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/13348352/Cindy_BaezObjections_SealedStuff

 

[Kentjbkent]

CLIPPED FOR BREVITY

Conclusion:
- Baez' objection was based on a court order to seal.
- The only court order to seal that is pertinent to the question asked and objected is regarding how the defense is getting paid.
- The question was asked, and answered. The information is now "in the public wheel".
- The defense team is getting paid by Casey selling photos, videos, and/or images of her murdered daughter, Caylee.

MOO

SUCH a great post and very well written!!

This has got me thinking about when certain pics of Caylee hit the media, BEFORE doc dumps started.

For example, any speculation on where CNN got access to the pics and videos of Caylee say, for the first week of MG broadcasts?

Just wondering if it would be possible to backtrack on photos that have been aired in the media to try and determine:

1. Did media gain access of particular photo from a doc dump (doc dump in relation to appearance of photo in natl media)?

2. Can a photo (pre doc dump) be linked to the interview of a certain party during a particular broadcast?

For example, those who watched the 48 Hours episode saw "new" pics of Caylee. It is obvious that those pics were sold by CA/GA (don't think CA would appear for free if defense had some how sold them). So we can logically assume that those particular photos were sold by the A's.

Wonder if we can at least narrow down and weed out photos that have appeared in the media after they showed up in a doc dump, and try to determine how many photos could have possibly been sold by KC (through other means)?

 

[lizzysf]

Peculiar coincidences>> I think something is up with this.

Carseat/tooth theory:

1. No release of info on the forensics on the carseat.
2. OSCO has it listed as Q45 "Eddie Bauer" carseat..no color mentioned.
3. Cindy claims her carseat for Caylee is Brown/tan Eddie Bauer", stored in the attic. What did she put Caylee in to go places in her car? EDIT: carseat put into attic "a few months ago" per depo (after Caylee's death)...interesting that they want to know if she has her carseat still though...
4. George's waffling story about Casey and Caylee leaving..first they just said "bye" and left, then his story changes.. says he walked them out and put her in the car.. (to verify which carseat he put her into later?)
5. SA is very interested in the car seat during Cindy's depo. Cindy claims Casey's carseat for Caylee is Black and White...can't remember the brand..
She can't remember that it is also Eddie Bauer? Plain as day across the seat?
http://media.photobucket.com/image/...terPeacer/MP OnTheWeb/blog/CayleeAnthony2.jpg
6. Starts crying when they are asking her about what she found in the backseat, discussing the carseat.
7. SA asks her if she moved it or repositioned or washed the cover.
8. SA asking her if she disposed of or hid any evidence.. she denies it and randomly blurts out: Mr. Baez can tell you i'm still upset about the fact they talk about the 18 teeth Caylee had. Caylee had 20 teeth.
Very weird..as teeth were not even being discussed at that time.
9. The autopsy says 18 erupted teeth, one front tooth missing. Cindy says 20, which would mean 3 teeth are missing...1 front and obviously 2 two imaginary back molars.. (yet to have erupted) Why? How would 2 back molars fall out if she was hit in the face? Right..Cindy's explanation rules out being hit in the face. One front tooth missing with all the other teeth intact in the mandible, in my opinion raises a red flag. Cindy's story of 3 teeth missing leads you to think they are unfound scattered in the woods still. CORRECTION: 13 teeth intact in the mandible, 4 found at the scene and 1 front tooth missing. http://www.wesh.com/download/2009/0619/19802034.pdf

Bottom line in this theory is.. Casey hit Caylee, knocked out her tooth, blood found on the carseat.. Cindy either switches it with hers or washes the removable cover...she finds the tooth in the backseat somewhere. There is alot of inquiry from SA about Caylee's teeth in the depo also.
VERY HINKY.

Links:
Cindy's depo
Part I pg 67-68
Part II
pgs 524, 566, 567, 576
Part II
pgs 319-321 (Cindy starts crying here)

I want to know what color the carseat is that OSCO has in evidence..
Do they have both carseats??? EDIT: According to depo...it is still in Cindy's attic.

A point of interest though... Part 1 pg 58 Cindy states carseat is stored in their "ATTIC" ...BUT... Part 2 page 518 Cindy states: "We're used to--we came from Ohio. We're used to an attic and a basement and now you have a garage and a little crawlspace, so you're limited on where you can store things."

 

[static]

That is exactly what I have been thinking, that tooth was found in that car.
I hope after that depo, they did go back and get it.(carseat) At one point they took more evidence out of the house and for the love of me can't remember the time frame.

 

[Marigold]

When my daughter was two, she smacked her face on the edge of the tub. My daughter didn't knock out any teeth but her teeth cut her bottom lip. Although she didn't have a large wound, there was still tons of blood coming out. Iirc, the doctor said that mouths bleed profusely because it is such soft tissue. He said something along the lines that that is why professional boxers can look so bloody and still keep going, the mouth bleeds a lot in relation to the type of injury. (She's in her 20s now, recovered nicely, btw.)

If poor little Caylee was hit hard enough to knock out one of her teeth, wouldn't there be blood on the car seat as well as other places in the car?

Has there been any info in the docs about tests done on the inside of the car?

 

[sleutherontheside]

I think that throughout all of CAs depositions, interviews, conversations......there are moments where she unknowingly AND unintentionally falls out of the "supportive mother and KC advocate" role she has written for herself. There are moments when REALITY and MEMORY force themselves to into HER present moment and she can't hold them back before she reacts. Be it tears, or ANGER, or a timely sip of water......be it creating confusion, distracting, or just shifting physical postion. She can not run from the truth she is hiding, nor will she ever be able to do so. It is quite literally eating her alive.