Small Details that are interesting in the Cooper Harris case, #1

[Deleted member 39678]

http://www.myajc.com/news/news/crime-law/toddler-dads-fate-rests-on-digital-sleuthing/ngm4x/


On July 3, Cobb police and prosecutors successfully used*tidbits*culled from Justin Ross Harris’ electronic devices to shock an international audience. When the trial opens, their task will be harder: to convince a jury, beyond a reasonable doubt, that Harris was — at the least — criminally negligent, not just tragically distracted, when he left his 22-month-0ld son in the car for seven hours.

SBM

The majority of the social media evidence that the state may wish to use in court will be to show motive and or premeditation. They don't have to prove either to get a conviction against JRH. JMO.

 

[Greater Than]

I wonder how people think Ross killed Cooper in between CFA and HD?

Autopsy listed cause of death as hyperthermia.

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

If Cooper wasn't strapped into his seat don't you think he would have been able to wiggle out of it? I'm sure he was trying hard to get out of that seat while dying and I don't think it would have been hard to do if he were not strapped in. This is just MOO!

Maybe Cooper did fall asleep as soon as he got in the car? I haven't researched the stages of hyperthermia in a lot of detail, but supposedly someone may get tired, may pass out. I don't know how a sleeping baby would respond to that--he may have been too weak and/or confused to get himself out of the seat belt. I'm sure he would have gone through a lot of movement, but maybe not able to perform the steps necessary due to his condition. It's pretty painful to imagine all the gory details, but I'm sure there's no cut and dry standard.

 

[Lovejac]

http://www.myajc.com/news/news/crime-law/toddler-dads-fate-rests-on-digital-sleuthing/ngm4x/


On July 3, Cobb police and prosecutors successfully used*tidbits*culled from Justin Ross Harris’ electronic devices to shock an international audience. When the trial opens, their task will be harder: to convince a jury, beyond a reasonable doubt, that Harris was — at the least — criminally negligent, not just tragically distracted, when he left his 22-month-0ld son in the car for seven hours.

Snap's summary: sorry about typos

*the wheels of the bus are to rolling
AND the "spin" has begun !!![emoji591]

iPhone
iPad
Apple Mac Book Pro laptop
Lenova T350 ( Home Depot laptop)
Dell Demension 9200 computer tower
Google Chromecast - streams online videos on TV

• GBI not assisting

•unlike a piece of paper address police might find upon arrest, having a IP address provides volumes of information digital sleuths to wade through.

• his actions in cyberspace will reveal multiple ways what could have been on his mind.
Did he click on something because it interested him or insensed him?


Peeling the Onion

• every discovery opens up more questions

• women on Kik may be unable to locate.
• Kik allows screen names only
• email address isn't confirmed upon registration

Questioning these women could back up claims he wanted out of the marriage.

• AT&T doesn't retain regular text messages. IPhone's tools may be able to locate them.

• Harris not real savvy at computer forensics,he did delete items from his devices, but they may can be found. He used no anti forensics or advanced methods to hide his online life.

• Possibly he is just arrogant for thinking he'd never get caught.

Defense

• news reported he viewed videos of animals dying, when he only watched a video of a vet pleading for safety.

• "searches" were only clicks

• web sites all have deviations from GST times there is no way to prove from a time stamp that Harris did the searches.
[emoji514]


All posts are MOO

The wheels on the bus, huh gngr snap

BBM, when did the news report that he watched videos of animals dying? I must have missed that :giggle:

Thanks for paying for access to that article. Sorry it sucked :gaah:

 

[Greater Than]

That would make it even odder that they said "What are you doing here?" to LH.

Should have been "Please sit down, we need to tell you something".

I agree, but he told Stoddard during his interview that he didn't actually speak to anyone. He said he was trying to get in touch with the daycare to tell them to keep LH there.

Phone records show it was a six minute call to the daycare.

When police arrived at the scene he was telling someone on the phone his child had died.

I guess we won't know what was meant by the, "What are you doing here?" question until trial.

 

[joypath]

Maybe Cooper did fall asleep as soon as he got in the car? I haven't researched the stages of hyperthermia in a lot of detail, but supposedly someone may get tired, may pass out. I don't know how a sleeping baby would respond to that--he may have been too weak and/or confused to get himself out of the seat belt. I'm sure he would have gone through a lot of movement, but maybe not able to perform the steps necessary due to his condition. It's pretty painful to imagine all the gory details, but I'm sure there's no cut and dry standard.

The antimortem & perimortem injuries to Cooper's face & scalp give a good indication that he did not fall asleep as soon as he got in the car. IMHO, he fought to live as evidenced by those lacerations/abrasions (some MEs use either term), he cried out (I'm sure!) in extreme stress & confusion, probably lost bladder control as he struggled with the straps (the lividity will confirm where the straps were on him), and had one horrible headache as he gasped for air.

BBM: Absolutely correct that there is "no cut & dried standard" to a hyperthermia death however there are HUGE clues on/in the body. BTW: some of those "clues" are evident on an external, primary examination.

 

[Lovejac]

I thought I had read all the posts today. I missed someone thinking CH was killed between CFA and HD. I read a lot of posts about car seats and people not understanding how Cooper would fit into the lowest setting on the rear facing car seat which was explained with links to posts last week about the straps on the back are loose and can be pulled up over the baby's shoulders (like suspenders). I also remember discussions about maybe CH may have been buckled into the regular car seat or maybe not buckled at all. But I haven't seen anyone posting maybe Ch was killed between Chick Fil A and HD. Let me ask Inthedetails for a link.

Don't waste any time looking for that. It's not there. :shush:

 

[renarde]

I can interpret that several ways, as a command or a question. Deciphering intent from abbreviations and lack of typical punctuation in text messages renders the message less interpretable without context. Having the context of any texts before or after would be more helpful, as in, did LH ever text something like this to RH at that time of day in the past? This is how I think it could be interpreted:

Get to work okay

A question, without punctuation. As in, "did you get to work okay?"

That can have several interpretations, from the innocent inquiry as to whether he got to work all right, was there traffic or complications, or whether he arrived at work on time. Inquiring as to whether he was late, did all go well with dropping off Cooper, did the old carseat work out okay, did both of you manage to get some breakfast, etc. She may have been worried about him arriving to work on time, if he and Cooper were lounging around in bed when they should have been getting ready for work and daycare as she left home.

As others have pointed out, it could also have a more nefarious interpretation, such as a coded message for her knowledge or involvement in some plan to abandon Cooper.

Get to work okay

A command, without punctuation.

For example, intending to mean something like (stop goofing off and) "get to work, okay?" Meaning, get yourself together, and get to work, okay? Perhaps LH was worried because RH has a reputation for always being late (according to interviews with his friends) he was chronically late to work, and was urging/ nagging him to get it together and get himself to work on time.

Or, a command to stop texting and get BACK to work, ok? As in, buckle down and get some work done. Could be in a teasing manner, or in a more serious tone, as in, let's stop texting now and get some work done.

Could it also be "Got to work okay"... as in LH got to work ok.

 

[Hippiemomof5]

The infant seat is a small detail because it was too small.



Thank you for posting the link bc it led me to this link of the informative review of the infant seat:
* it's red
* it's mid-priced...can be purchased from Amazon for $158
* the owner describes that it retains heat due to the design and the negative reviews

the design allows in too much sunlight near the baby's face @ 1:20.
describes the heat this infant seat generates as the reason for one star reviews @ 2:34
describes the heat the infant seat generates @ 4:54

[video=youtube;CHeTWTbWXrw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHeTWTbWXrw[/video]

Also, it is my understanding that the one new proper fitting carseat was purchased six weeks prior to death.

BBM
I watched that video too, it made me sick when I heard that. :/

 

[MsMarple]

Another detail that keeps bugging me is the wording of Cooper's obituary. All that stuff about cars and parking lots and how talkative Cooper was. I don't know who wrote it but whoever did totally missed the irony. Initially I thought a family member, or even LH herself was sending a subtle message – maybe even an accusation - but the support shown to RH at the funeral says that wasn't the case. Strange. This family really lacks insight.

He loved to speak with anyone and made impacts on many people's lives in his short time. Cooper loved trucks and cars and often told them bye as we left parking lots. He had just learned the color red and as we passed red vehicles, he would tell his mommy and his daddy "bye red car, bye red truck."

http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/tuscaloosa/obituary.aspx?pid=171490524

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

The antimortem & perimortem injuries to Cooper's face & scalp give a good indication that he did not fall asleep as soon as he got in the car. IMHO, he fought to live as evidenced by those lacerations/abrasions (some MEs use either term), he cried out (I'm sure!) in extreme stress & confusion, probably lost bladder control as he struggled with the straps (the lividity will confirm where the straps were on him), and had one horrible headache as he gasped for air.

BBM: Absolutely correct that there is "no cut & dried standard" to a hyperthermia death however there are HUGE clues on/in the body. BTW: some of those "clues" are evident on an external, primary examination.

They'll know right away (I'm sure they already do know) where he was positioned--from staining where the body was and from the strap marks on the body.

 

[gngr~snap]

I can interpret that several ways, as a command or a question. Deciphering intent from abbreviations and lack of typical punctuation in text messages renders the message less interpretable without context. Having the context of any texts before or after would be more helpful, as in, did LH ever text something like this to RH at that time of day in the past? This is how I think it could be interpreted:

Get to work okay

A question, without punctuation. As in, "did you get to work okay?"

That can have several interpretations, from the innocent inquiry as to whether he got to work all right, was there traffic or complications, or whether he arrived at work on time. Inquiring as to whether he was late, did all go well with dropping off Cooper, did the old carseat work out okay, did both of you manage to get some breakfast, etc. She may have been worried about him arriving to work on time, if he and Cooper were lounging around in bed when they should have been getting ready for work and daycare as she left home.

As others have pointed out, it could also have a more nefarious interpretation, such as a coded message for her knowledge or involvement in some plan to abandon Cooper.

Get to work okay

A command, without punctuation.

For example, intending to mean something like (stop goofing off and) "get to work, okay?" Meaning, get yourself together, and get to work, okay? Perhaps LH was worried because RH has a reputation for always being late (according to interviews with his friends) he was chronically late to work, and was urging/ nagging him to get it together and get himself to work on time.

Or, a command to stop texting and get BACK to work, ok? As in, buckle down and get some work done. Could be in a teasing manner, or in a more serious tone, as in, let's stop texting now and get some work done.

I am behind. Sorry if someone beat me to it. There was a ? at the end of the sentence.

"Get to work ok?"

post #1012
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10774950
All posts are MOO

 

[Lovejac]

I am behind. Sorry if someone beat me to it. There was a ? at the end of the sentence.

"Get to work ok?"

post #1012
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10774950
All posts are MOO

Yep, it sure is.

Get to work okay?

Now, if someone could tell what those last 2 texts say now that Det Stoddards hand isn't blocking it, I'd be a happy camper

 

[gngr~snap]

Yep, it sure is.

Get to work okay?

Now, if someone could tell what those last 2 texts say now that Det Stoddards hand isn't blocking it, I'd be a happy camper

I don't have an iPhone. How does it indicate time and date? Would it have been sent earlier that day?
I see, it would change to Today.

http://www.addictivetips.com/ios/lesser-known-changes-new-features-in-ios-7/
All posts are MOO

 

[MsMarple]

The antimortem & perimortem injuries to Cooper's face & scalp give a good indication that he did not fall asleep as soon as he got in the car. IMHO, he fought to live as evidenced by those lacerations/abrasions (some MEs use either term), he cried out (I'm sure!) in extreme stress & confusion, probably lost bladder control as he struggled with the straps (the lividity will confirm where the straps were on him), and had one horrible headache as he gasped for air.

BBM: Absolutely correct that there is "no cut & dried standard" to a hyperthermia death however there are HUGE clues on/in the body. BTW: some of those "clues" are evident on an external, primary examination.

Thank you for your clear and informed answer. ITA. By the time I finished my research I was convinced that even if Cooper was given a dose of Benedryl or something (which wasn't the case anyway, per the negative tox report) he would have become alert as he struggled to breathe.

Intense thirst, hyperventilation, intrathoracic petechial hemorrhages from deep gasping, nausea, vomiting, seizures – hyperthermia isn't a kind killer. That poor, poor baby.

 

[SnoopyDawgDawg]

Annnndddd........I'm IN!!!

Snap's summary of AJC coming soon.
http://www.myajc.com/news/news/crime-law/toddler-dads-fate-rests-on-digital-sleuthing/ngm4x/

All posts are MOO

Snap rocks! Snap deserves a cookie!

:loveyou:

 

[Deleted member 39678]

The small detail that I would like to know about is when was JRH read his rights? We know that he was cuffed and put into a police car at the scene and taken to the police station where he was questioned. Hours later he was arrested.

Did LE read him his rights when he was first detained and he waived his right to remain silent? Or did they remove the cuffs, make it clear that he was free to leave the police station and he then voluntarily answered LE questions without the Miranda warning being read to him?

I'm wondering if any incriminating statements JRH made to LE will be ruled inadmissible in court.

Looks like no one has any thoughts about my post so I'm going to have to do it on my own. LOL

If LE did read JRH his rights at the time he was put into cuffs at the crime scene and he waived his right to remain silent then I think all of his statements to LE will be admissible. I would assume that LE would have him waive his rights on paper and also using audio and or video recording. It would be hard for the defense to show that JRH's Fifth Amendment right against self incrimination was violated.

On the other hand, if LE didn't read JRH his rights when he was obviously detained and taken to the police station the defense may be able to say that his right against self incrimination was violated. The state will have to prove that JRH wasn't in custody before being interrogated.

Interrogated means this.

Interrogation means explicit questioning or actions that are reasonably likely to elicit an incriminating response.

Asking JHR what time he got off work wouldn't likely elicit an incriminating response. But asking if he killed his son would. So it would depend on what kind of questions LE asked before it would be considered to be an interrogation.

Sometimes LE will not want to "Mirandize" a suspect because they know it tends to silence some individuals.

So the questions are, was JRH in custody when questioned by police and was he advised of his rights?

If he wasn't advised of his rights when questioned by police was he in custody?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miranda_warning

 

[Hippiemomof5]

Looks like no one has any thoughts about my post so I'm going to have to do it on my own. LOL

If LE did read JRH his rights at the time he was put into cuffs at the crime scene and he waived his right to remain silent then I think all of his statements to LE will be admissible. I would assume that LE would have him waive his rights on paper and also using audio and or video recording. It would be hard for the defense to show that JRH's Fifth Amendment right against self incrimination was violated.

On the other hand, if LE didn't read JRH his rights when he was obviously detained and taken to the police station the defense may be able to say that his right against self incrimination was violated. The state will have to prove that JRH wasn't in custody before being interrogated.

Interrogated means this.



Asking JHR what time he got off work wouldn't likely elicit an incriminating response. But asking if he killed his son would. So it would depend on what kind of questions LE asked before it would be considered to be an interrogation.

Sometimes LE will not want to "Mirandize" a suspect because they know it tends to silence some individuals.

So the questions are, was JRH in custody when questioned by police and was he advised of his rights?

If he wasn't advised of his rights when questioned by police was he in custody?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miranda_warning

This brings up a lot of good questions and thoughts. I am sure LE follow some sort of protocol before placing possible suspects in a video and/or audio taped room. If he wasn't yet arrested, I don't think he would have been read his Miranda rights but he'd have been made aware that he was being recorded. I'm sure at that point, Ross still thought he was going to get away with everything. Same with video taped jail visits, people say more than they should, we've seen that in other cases.

MOO

 

[PaperDoll]

Maybe Cooper did fall asleep as soon as he got in the car? I haven't researched the stages of hyperthermia in a lot of detail, but supposedly someone may get tired, may pass out. I don't know how a sleeping baby would respond to that--he may have been too weak and/or confused to get himself out of the seat belt. I'm sure he would have gone through a lot of movement, but maybe not able to perform the steps necessary due to his condition. It's pretty painful to imagine all the gory details, but I'm sure there's no cut and dry standard.

Thank you for your reply :blowkiss:.. Since I don't have all the details of this case and I can only "assume" from everything that I've read thus far, I personally don't believe Cooper fell asleep as soon as RH put him the car, that is just hard from me to believe. I don't know how weak or confused he may have gotten, but I'm going to guess he may have tried to get out of the car seat not long after daddy left him, with or without being strapped in. He may not have liked the fact that daddy left him alone in the car, and he may have gotten vocal for a bit, crying maybe??? (breaks my heart to think of that ) Daddy, not once, remembered through out that whole day that he forgot to take Cooper to day care???? For 7 long hours, not once remembered he didn't take his son to day care, never popped into his mind and yet he knew he had him since he took him to CFA so nothing triggered his mind that whole day that something wasn't right????? He simply forgot, ooops my bad???

 

[Deleted member 39678]

This brings up a lot of good questions and thoughts. I am sure LE follow some sort of protocol before placing possible suspects in a video and/or audio taped room. If he wasn't yet arrested, I don't think he would have been read his Miranda rights but he'd have been made aware that he was being recorded. I'm sure at that point, Ross still thought he was going to get away with everything. Same with video taped jail visits, people say more than they should, we've seen that in other cases.

MOO

I'm not sure if any of those videotaped recordings will make it into trial if the defense shows that JRH wasn't advised of his rights against self incrimination. It would depend on the protocol I guess? JMO