South Africa - Martin, 55, Theresa, 54, Rudi van Breda, 22, murdered, 26 Jan 2015 #1

[JudgeJudi]

Puzzling why so few are following this case on WS!

I sent a PM to the mod asking for it to be moved over to Trials - no response.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I sent a PM to the mod asking for it to be moved over to Trials - no response.

We're in trials JJ.

 

[Tortoise]

I wonder how that amnesia works. If Marli might be able to remember what happened earlier that evening, even if she can't remember the attack.

 

[Interested Bystander]

JMO
For me personally I had heard a lot about OP because of the Olympics and I think OP was pretty well known because of that before he committed his murder.

On the other hand with this case I really have not heard of this family. I live in the US and just have not ever heard about that family name before now.

It sounds like they are well off and maybe they are known more by others and especially in their country but here in the US I have to wonder if lots of people are like myself and just do not know about them.

So even though the murder is horrific axe murder I think maybe the reason it is not as well followed here is because maybe not many had ever heard of that family before. The US has so many gruesome murders of our own that it takes something special even here for a US case to become national news.

Sometimes things blow up and sometimes they dont and sometimes we dont even know why certain cases seem to take off here.

The recent murders of the girls on the bridge took off because of the unique bridge and the fact they were two young girls just hiking the bridge. The bridge had a lot to do with why that case took off here because the bridge was so unique.

There probably is some unknown reasons and maybe just by chance too why certain cases just get more popular than others.

Thanks to those that are following this case. It is an interesting case and I have to read back on it as it sounds horrific. Using an axe as a weapon is awful.

The case reminds me of the Lizzie Borden axe murders from years ago.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lizzie_Borden

Yes, I take your point and agree. I had not really gauged that much of the OP interest was due to him being well known but you are right. He was not well known to me but I had heard of him, mainly because of the headlines in the UK when he threw furniture about on coming only second.

My interest is more about how the evidence is used/presented and the eventual outcome but I guess that alone may not be so interesting to everyone, given that there are horrible murders being committed across the world all the time and yet don't make headlines.

 

[Hag]

True Hatfield, OP was internationally known as you say. This family previously lived in my city so much reported here. Still, I am surprised not much interest being shown so far.............

 

[Tortoise]

I think some people might not know the trial has started, if it isn't being reported on much internationally.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I wonder how that amnesia works. If Marli might be able to remember what happened earlier that evening, even if she can't remember the attack.

Wouldn't that be wonderful if she could remember before the attack, even things that seem trivial might be important.
I wonder where HvB was hiding the axe and if Marli had seen it? Also, if the date of the attack was significant? Rudi returning home... there's just so much leading up to the night that is unknown.

 

[Interested Bystander]

I wonder how that amnesia works. If Marli might be able to remember what happened earlier that evening, even if she can't remember the attack.

That is a very interesting point. We need a doctor! We have one on the Pisto Board and she works in a Trauma department. I am sure she would know.

 

[Interested Bystander]

I have messaged Jake to ask if she has the time to make a comment on the amnesia.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 18m18 minutes ago
Next witness is ambulance driver who arrived at murder scene ,Christiaan Koegelenberg.
here is ambulance driver Christiaan Koegelenberg & previous witness, Marcia Rossouw, the security manager of de zalze.


Koegelenberg states he has been working for 39 years at ambulance company. He was on duty the night of the murders.
K: 07:40am my colleague and I were called out to a serious emergency in de zalze estate.
K: Police sergeant took us into 12 Goske street house. 1 patient sat outside the front door (Henri).
K: then we followed sergeant into house, up the stairs where 2 bodies were lying. I noticed the one person was still alive.
@TimesLIVE

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 7m7 minutes ago @TimesLIVE

K: I tended to the first two bodies and my colleague went into room to tend to the other 2bodies.

K: my colleague showed me a hand sign signalling that 2 people in room were dead.So we began helping 1 person who was still alive.
K: we tended to the injured person at top of stairs then placed her in ambulance & took her to nearest hospital.
K: we asked sergeant to take photos of scene before we helped injured person at top of stairs (Marli).

K: blood ran like a waterfall down to bottom floor when we moved the one person at top of stairs.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 8m8 minutes ago @CapeTownEtc #vanbreda

emergency care on Marli went back to ambulance to collect more things we did necessary and took her to Medi clinic
we handed her over to Dr Potgieter at Stellenbosch Medi Clinic

the photos of the bodies were taken by the police before we removed the living victim (Marli)

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 7m7 minutes ago @TimesLIVE

K: The person outside (Henri) was sitting with a dog.

K: This was the worst case I have seen in my entire life. (He has been driving ambulances for 39 years).

we are now looking at photos of crime scene. State speaks of a blue glove. K says this is the glove they used on the scene.
state now pointing out bloody footsteps on stairs.K says this is their footsteps when they were helping injured person.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 6m6 minutes ago @CapeTownEtc #vanbreda

photos of stairs with footsteps when you arrived did you know whose footsteps those are? Those are our footprints

Koegelenberg says that blue glove is the glove that we use when we give emergency medical care

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 6m6 minutes ago @TimesLIVE

K confirms that the photos in the exhibit of the bodies lying at top of stairs are photos sergeant took before they aided Marli.
K says he just entered house to do his job, did not look around the house. He did not treat or aid Henri.
defence Botha now takes over with cross examination of K.
Botha asks if he recognises Henri. K states that he looks older now. He does not know where the dog sitting with Henri came from.


Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 7m7 minutes ago @CapeTownEtc #vanbreda

Did you notice anything at the house? No when I arrive at a scene I don't look around I go in and do my work
Did you ever handle the victim who sat outside at the front door with the dog - no I didnt handle him

 

[JudgeJudi]

CCTV footage of numerous unlogged comings and goings at the upmarket De Zalze estate were played in the Western Cape High Court on Tuesday, contrary to earlier testimony that it had been ''quiet'' the night Henry van Breda's parents and brother were murdered.

Next witness is paramedic Christiaan Koegelenberg. In 2015 he worked for Stellenbosch EMS. 39 years of service.

On 27 January 2015, received call at 07:40 and responded to "serious assault" at De Zalze. Police met them there.

When we got there, the policeman showed us what was going on. He took us into the house at number 12 [Goske Street]. He told us to go look at what was going on because everything "was deurmekaar".

He saw one patient outside, at the door. He was sitting there, he had a dog with him.

Policeman took us in, told us to follow him. He took us up the stairs and came upon the two victims. He told us there were another two. Saw them in the bedroom.

I turned around and saw one of the victim was still alive.

He gave me a hand signal indicating that the persons had died.

I assisted the young lady, and told my partner one was also not breathing, only the other.

I went and collected our equipment, carried her down the stairs, put her on a drip and took her to Stellenbosch Mediclinic, where I handed her over to Dr Potgieter.

Moving [Teresa's] dead body, blood ran like a waterfall.

This was one of the worst incidents I had ever seen in my 39 years experience.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/live-day-8-of-the-van-breda-murder-trial-20170509

 

[JudgeJudi]

State now points out bloody footsteps on stairs.

Paramedic says it is their footsteps when they were helping the injured person.

If I get to a scene, I dont look around. I go to do the job I came to do, he says.

Koegelenberg did not treat Henri.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/Ne...trial-20170509

 

[JudgeJudi]

Koegelenberg cross examined.

Koegelenberg says he recognises Henri, although he is older.

Botha says Henri doesn't know who brought him the dog.


Court is adjourned.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/live-day-8-of-the-van-breda-murder-trial-20170509

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 6m6 minutes ago
And with that the defence ends it's cross examination. Court adjourned until tomorrow morning 10am. @TimesLIVE

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 6m6 minutes ago

AdvBotha asks if bail conditions can be amended as Henri is struggling to get to the police station in time on monday
Judge Desai will amend tomorrow morning- court adjourned till 10am for next witness

@CapeTownEtc #vanbreda


:facepalm:

 

[PrimeSuspect]

It's starting already. No shame, no guilt, out on bail accused of triple family murder, can't make it to police station on time.