South Africa - Martin, 55, Theresa, 54, Rudi van Breda, 22, murdered, 26 Jan 2015 #1

[PrimeSuspect]

The FOUR crucial questions HvB will have to explain.

How do you think he will answer them and what is the real answer?

1) Why did he call his girlfriend shortly after the family‚ including himself according to his version of events‚ was attacked?

2) Why did he wait nearly four hours after the attack to call emergency services for help?

3) How did blood from family members targeted in the attack find its way onto his sleeping shorts and white socks - a key piece of evidence acquired by the state?

4) Why were a kitchen knife and the axe allegedly used in the attack found on the premises?

http://www.timeslive.co.za/sundaytimes/stnews/article1426660.ece

Hmm, I'll give it a try.

1) HvB will say he needed her support and wanted her to call emergency on his behalf.
Imo, he rang her to gloat, maybe wanted advice about what else he should do.

2) HvB will say he was unconscious and/or too unstable/shocked/hurt to move.
I'm influenced by earlier media reports that he was surfing the internet, so he did that. He attempted to set the scene to look a certain way with his limited knowledge of how to do that, one being cutting himself.

3) HvB will say he knelt beside their bodies to check if they were alive and blood transferred to his clothing.
While wielding the axe against his parents and siblings the blood sprayed onto his clothing.

4) HvB will say he didn't touch the axe or knife or know where they came from.
He might have wanted his girlfriend to dispose of them, could be the reason for the call? It will be interesting if no one has knife injuries except HvB, means only one thing.
Or, one of the victims brought the knife to defend themselves but was overpowered and killed?

 

[JudgeJudi]

RSBM

“I overheard them saying that Marli had been administered a drug that makes her ‘wide awake and telling us everything’. I enquired about my family members, but they refused to provide me with any details."

Really!!!! I'd love to know when this conversation took place. He can only be talking about when medical help arrived or shortly afterwards if he was enquiring about family members. "Marli suffered extensive brain trauma and was put into a medically induced coma for several days".

https://www.pressreader.com/south-africa/cape-times/20150420/281608123969455

Here are a few more details about this fairy tale.

The entire crime scene was restricted to the inside of the house. Security guards found no breaches, no one had forced a way into the house and nothing was stolen. Even the alleged murder weapons, an axe and a kitchen knife, came from inside the house.

The homeowners’ association made it clear from the start that it was an isolated incident and that there was no perimeter breach at the time.

The State’s summary of facts put before the court described the De Zalze Winelands Golf Estate as “an exclusive housing estate which is guarded by high-security systems and monitored around the clock”.

“The Van Breda home is located approximately at the centre of the housing estate.”

“The axe and the kitchen knife come from the Van Breda home. The knife was part of a set of kitchen knives.”

No items were removed from the home.

“No intruder to the estate was detected by the security company during the period in question.”

Marli, who was 16 at the time, sustained a fractured skull and extensive brain trauma during the attack.

The teen, who at one point was in a medically induced coma and underwent neurosurgery, miraculously recovered.

http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/timeline-of-a-brutal-family-murder-2036052

How was she doing all the talking and "telling them everything". In addition to a fractured skull and brain damage, her jugular had been cut. Further, she was and is suffering retrograde amnesia.

I find it hard to believe a person with extensive brain damage would be given any sort of drugs to make them talk. Her injuries were so severe and life threatening she was put in a medically induced coma.

 

[Estelle]

Hmm, I'll give it a try.

My comments are in bold under yours.

1) HvB will say he needed her support and wanted her to call emergency on his behalf.
Imo, he rang her to gloat, maybe wanted advice about what else he should do.

I agree but I also think that he could have been in fantasy land in his drunken state and wanted to tell her that if/when they got married, he would now be a multi-millionaire, they would not have to work for the rest of their lives and they could have all the drugs that they wanted as he was sure he would get away with it. Also, that he may have wanted her to get rid of the axe and knife and while she was coming over, he may have decided that he could pretend to have been unconscious a lot longer as he could have been drunk and wanted to sober up.

2) HvB will say he was unconscious and/or too unstable/shocked/hurt to move.
I'm influenced by earlier media reports that he was surfing the internet, so he did that. He attempted to set the scene to look a certain way with his limited knowledge of how to do that, one being cutting himself.

I agree. Actually the times of his phone call to his girlfriend and his internet searches will give him away that he was not unconscious.

3) HvB will say he knelt beside their bodies to check if they were alive and blood transferred to his clothing.
While wielding the axe against his parents and siblings the blood sprayed onto his clothing.

An expert witness will have a field day with that one!

4) HvB will say he didn't touch the axe or knife or know where they came from.

He did touch the axe and tried to hit the assailant with it, he said, but he had it the wrong way. That, he thinks, will cover that his fingerprints are on the axe.

He might have wanted his girlfriend to dispose of them, could be the reason for the call?

Yes I agree.

It will be interesting if no one has knife injuries except HvB, means only one thing.

He used a knife against his sister's throat and himself so his fingerprints will be on that.

Or, one of the victims brought the knife to defend themselves but was overpowered and killed?

[I]That could be true if they had time to run downstairs to get the knife.. [/I]

How is he going to account for no fingerprints from either assailant? No trace at all!

I guess he will say that they were wearing gloves.

 

[Estelle]

RSBM


Really!!!! I'd love to know when this conversation took place. He can only be talking about when medical help arrived or shortly afterwards if he was enquiring about family members. "Marli suffered extensive brain trauma and was put into a medically induced coma for several days".

https://www.pressreader.com/south-africa/cape-times/20150420/281608123969455

Here are a few more details about this fairy tale.

The entire crime scene was restricted to the inside of the house. Security guards found no breaches, no one had forced a way into the house and nothing was stolen. Even the alleged murder weapons, an axe and a kitchen knife, came from inside the house.

The homeowners’ association made it clear from the start that it was an isolated incident and that there was no perimeter breach at the time.

The State’s summary of facts put before the court described the De Zalze Winelands Golf Estate as “an exclusive housing estate which is guarded by high-security systems and monitored around the clock”.

“The Van Breda home is located approximately at the centre of the housing estate.”

“The axe and the kitchen knife come from the Van Breda home. The knife was part of a set of kitchen knives.”

No items were removed from the home.

“No intruder to the estate was detected by the security company during the period in question.”

Marli, who was 16 at the time, sustained a fractured skull and extensive brain trauma during the attack.

The teen, who at one point was in a medically induced coma and underwent neurosurgery, miraculously recovered.

http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/timeline-of-a-brutal-family-murder-2036052

How was she doing all the talking and "telling them everything". In addition to a fractured skull and brain damage, her jugular had been cut. Further, she was and is suffering retrograde amnesia.

I find it hard to believe a person with extensive brain damage would be given any sort of drugs to make them talk. Her injuries were so severe and life threatening she was put in a medically induced coma.

“I overheard them saying that Marli had been administered a drug that makes her ‘wide awake and telling us everything’.

HvB was at the police station when he overheard them saying this.

The way I saw that statement is that the police were trying to scare him into telling the truth by lying about Marli being able to disclose what happened and speaking in a louder voice so HvB could hear them. After all, HvB was about to make his statement and Marli was the only witness.

 

[Estelle]

O/T What do you think of this?

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/N...ernal-investigation-when-he-resigned-20170201

http://www.news24.com/Video/SouthAf...crossed-gerrie-nel-on-shaun-abrahams-20170201

 

[Estelle]

WATCH VIDEO: Judge Desai inspects former Van Breda family home AND one of the Defence team easily climbs over the gate at the side of the house.

http://www.news24.com/Video/SouthAf...nspects-former-van-breda-family-home-20170425

This is a really fascinating case!

 

[Estelle]

Photos of the visit to the crime scene:

http://www.you.co.za/news/19-chilling-photos-of-henri-and-the-courts-visit-to-van-breda-family-home/

 

[Estelle]

[video=youtube;Aryek-9Oe30]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aryek-9Oe30[/video]

 

[tlorik]

Emotional

The first officer at the scene, Sergeant Adrian Kleynhans, also testified on the first day of the trial, saying Henri had been emotional, but not crying when he arrived at the scene that morning.

When he pulled up outside the Goske Street house, Henri came out through the front door in his underwear.

Kleynhans said he smelt alcohol on his breath.

The officer testified that besides the bloody axe on the stairs, the ground floor appeared fine, with valuables, such as a handbag and laptop, all in place.

The weapon was the first sign of something being wrong, Kleynhans told the court. When he ascended the stairs, he found Marli and Teresa.

He phoned for help when Marli's arm and leg moved and he realised she was still alive.

He took cellphone photos of the scene before allowing paramedics to work on Marli. While taking the photos, he saw Rudi and Martin’s bodies in the room.

The sergeant said when he walked through the family’s house, he saw the kitchen door was ajar and the windows were slightly open. There was no sign of forced entry, he said.

There was also a paper with emergency numbers stuck to the fridge, near where cigarettes butts had been killed on the kitchen floor, Kleynhans said.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/N...0170424?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

I found this very interesting. Very indicative of HvB's disdain and contempt for his parents' home. I feel quite sure cigarettes were not normally put out on the kitchen floor. But someone stood around or paced around long enough to smoke more than one cigarette and put it out on the kitchen floor - plural cigarettes.

Personally, I think the alcohol on the breath could have been from earlier and maybe a drunken or alcohol fueled argument started and got pear shaped OR maybe he drank to buck up his courage to self inflict some knife and axe wounds.

Just my opinion. I haven't believed anything he's said so far. Intruders that will hack people up with an axe will usually hack at everyone. The only way I would believe HvB had nothing to do with this is if he had NO wounds, which would tell me he hid somewhere while his family was attacked. Jeff McDonald's family was stabbed over and over and he was barely scratched. Didn't believe him either.

I am concerned because he is saying he was never advised of his rights. I would hate to see him get off the hook because of something like that.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

O/T What do you think of this?

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/N...ernal-investigation-when-he-resigned-20170201
http://www.news24.com/Video/SouthAf...crossed-gerrie-nel-on-shaun-abrahams-20170201

It does taint Nel's reputation but it can be proven true or false other than some nasty rumour hanging over his head. This businessman pulled out a gun and shot 2 men he says were vandalizing his car. The businessman's accusation hasn't been tested, was CCTV footage edited to support the five men's version?

 

[JudgeJudi]

O/T What do you think of this?

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/N...ernal-investigation-when-he-resigned-20170201

http://www.news24.com/Video/SouthAf...crossed-gerrie-nel-on-shaun-abrahams-20170201

I remember that Nel had problems with the head of the NPA and also with the Scorpions. There’s quite a history so I’ll just give you a few links because it would be too lengthy to post.

https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/art...a-deeply-compromised-npa-behind/#.WQAaa-S1s4k

I'll add to this that the head of the DPP is given a term of 10 years. The first appointment was in 1998 BUT since then there have been 7!!

http://www.biznews.com/leadership/2017/02/02/gerrie-nel-shaun-abrahams-npa-afriforum/

http://www.iol.co.za/the-star/advoc...d-bars-wins-global-award-1314398#.U3IzYoGSyyg

Nel pursued Jackie Selebi who was not only the Police Commissioner at the time, but also the head of Interpol. He won an international award because of his work on the case.

IMO they’d do anything to get rid of him and, like others, I honestly believe he’d had enough. He was able to retire from the NPA within 5 years so he really had nothing to lose. I saw an interview with him the day following his resignation and the presenter said WTTE, “What if you don’t get any jobs?” to which Nel replied, “Well then I won’t make any money”.

If Nel was corrupt, why would he work at the NPA. Everyone knows that government advocates earn less than those in private practice and Nel is considered one of the best advocates in SA. This is a man who devotes much of his spare time teaching wrestling to 3-6-year-olds.

As far as tainting his reputation goes, probably only in the eyes of those baying for his blood.

I’ve read much about him over the years and all I can say is I trust him implicitly.

 

[JudgeJudi]

RSBM

I am concerned because he is saying he was never advised of his rights. I would hate to see him get off the hook because of something like that.

This is common for accused to say in SA. In fact it's been said in the Chris Panayiotou trial which is also underway in Cape Town. This is another bizarre case where one of the defendants turned State witness and was given immunity from prosecution, but once the trial started he refused to answer any questions put to him and has now been deemed a hostile witness. He claims he was beaten by the police and as a result they now have a voir dire (trial within a trial) to establish whether a most incriminating tape recording of him speaking with the accused can be admitted into evidence.

 

[L2L]

Details of the in loco inspection of the van Breda mansion expected to be read into the court record today.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/N...ouse-inspection-expected-to-be-heard-20170426

 

[JudgeJudi]

Day 3

The link for today's live news feed

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/live-day-3-of-the-van-breda-trial-20170426

 

[JudgeJudi]

I'll start posting duties today after Estelle's mammoth effort if that suits everyone.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I remember that Nel had problems with the head of the NPA and also with the Scorpions. There’s quite a history so I’ll just give you a few links because it would be too lengthy to post.

https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/art...a-deeply-compromised-npa-behind/#.WQAaa-S1s4k

I'll add to this that the head of the DPP is given a term of 10 years. The first appointment was in 1998 BUT since then there have been 7!!

http://www.biznews.com/leadership/2017/02/02/gerrie-nel-shaun-abrahams-npa-afriforum/

http://www.iol.co.za/the-star/advoc...d-bars-wins-global-award-1314398#.U3IzYoGSyyg

Nel pursued Jackie Selebi who was not only the Police Commissioner at the time, but also the head of Interpol. He won an international award because of his work on the case.

IMO they’d do anything to get rid of him and, like others, I honestly believe he’d had enough. He was able to retire from the NPA within 5 years so he really had nothing to lose. I saw an interview with him the day following his resignation and the presenter said WTTE, “What if you don’t get any jobs?” to which Nel replied, “Well then I won’t make any money”.

If Nel was corrupt, why would he work at the NPA. Everyone knows that government advocates earn less than those in private practice and Nel is considered one of the best advocates in SA. This is a man who devotes much of his spare time teaching wrestling to 3-6-year-olds.

As far as tainting his reputation goes, probably only in the eyes of those baying for his blood.

I’ve read much about him over the years and all I can say is I trust him implicitly.

I do too, it's just a shame legal proceedings move incredibly slow in SA or will this accusation even see the light of day? The businessman should produce the 'unedited' tape otherwise it's a bluff intended to hurt Nel. I have a feeling it won't eventuate so it lingers like a bad smell.

Nel's made of strong stuff, he's had death threats, accusations, suffered poor treatment from Judge Masipa as did Prosecutor Adrian Mopp by Judge Traverso.

The accusing businessman had a loaded weapon and shot two men so he's no light weight, probably a pretty scary man. This is why these claims should be investigated to clear Nel and his team of any wrongdoing.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Those unfamiliar with South African courts may be wondering who the lady is sitting next to the judge. She's an expert assessor who will be assisting the judge with the DNA evidence.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Apparently the trial will resume at 10.30 - 11.00, i.e. 20-50 minutes from now.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Tammy Petersen is tweeting from court.

https://twitter.com/TammyPetersen87

 

[JudgeJudi]

Cheers L2L. Members and guests coming and going. Who can blame them. OISA.