South Africa - Martin, 55, Theresa, 54, Rudi van Breda, 22, murdered, 26 Jan 2015 #1

[Estelle]

Botha is unhappy with the graphics in the Die Burger article I linked above.

The judge presiding over Henri van Breda's murder trial has urged the media to report carefully in the highly sensitive case.

Defence lawyer Pieter Botha urged Judge Siraj Desai to warn the media to report carefully, following the coverage of an in loco inspection of the house.

Botha is unhappy with sketches in a Cape Town newspaper detailing the interior of the house, EWN's Giovanna Gerbi reports.

The defence advocate had a problem with a Cape Town newspaper that had sketches after the in loco inspection... Botha said it was jumping the gun and should never have been published.
— Giovanna Gerbi, EWN reporter

Judge Desai, along with the State prosecutor, van Breda and his legal team, did an in loco inspection of the house on Tuesday.

Gerbi explains that the in loco inspection report will be collated and presented in court during van Breda’s trial.

http://www.capetalk.co.za/articles/...onsibly-after-van-breda-s-lawyer-scolds-paper

EWN Reporter ✔ @ewnreporter
#VanBredas lawyer Piet Botha tells judge Desai Die Burger reported inaccurate details about the case in their story this morning. MM
7:48 PM - 26 Apr 2017

Something not correct in the graphics or was the journalist just jumping the gun?

 

[Estelle]

This article has made the following points concerning security so I will be interested to hear your comments on them:

How secure is the estate and house?

1. Botha pointed out to the court that the house had no burglar bars, and a person could easily climb through the window.

2, He further pointed out that posts at the gate of the estate could be scaled: “One could climb the fence and jump over by putting a foot on the padlock, grabbing onto the concrete pillar, and jumping over”

Judge Siraj Desai countered: “Its hazardous and extremely difficult”.

3. The estate is surrounded by electric fences and has twenty four hour security guards. Cameras were also installed in January, 2015. State prosecutor Susan Galloway said the security management would be testifying, and Botha’s point could be argued at a later stage.

But what do you think these blood drops are all about? What will he make of them?

He also said blood drops had been found on the boundary wall of 13 Goske Street, next door to the Van Breda family home.

http://citizen.co.za/news/news-nati...al-postponed-cross-examination-first-witness/

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Botha is unhappy with the graphics in the Die Burger article I linked above.

The judge presiding over Henri van Breda's murder trial has urged the media to report carefully in the highly sensitive case.

Defence lawyer Pieter Botha urged Judge Siraj Desai to warn the media to report carefully, following the coverage of an in loco inspection of the house.

Botha is unhappy with sketches in a Cape Town newspaper detailing the interior of the house, EWN's Giovanna Gerbi reports.

The defence advocate had a problem with a Cape Town newspaper that had sketches after the in loco inspection... Botha said it was jumping the gun and should never have been published.
— Giovanna Gerbi, EWN reporter

Judge Desai, along with the State prosecutor, van Breda and his legal team, did an in loco inspection of the house on Tuesday.

Gerbi explains that the in loco inspection report will be collated and presented in court during van Breda’s trial.

http://www.capetalk.co.za/articles/...onsibly-after-van-breda-s-lawyer-scolds-paper

EWN Reporter ✔ @ewnreporter
#VanBredas lawyer Piet Botha tells judge Desai Die Burger reported inaccurate details about the case in their story this morning. MM
7:48 PM - 26 Apr 2017

Something not correct in the graphics or was the journalist just jumping the gun?

Could be due to this,

Botha complained that the sketch was "speculative" and purported to show exactly where the bodies had been found‚ despite those details not being made public.

http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/2017/04/26/Van-Bredas-advocate-attacks-speculative-media-sketch

 

[PrimeSuspect]

This article has made the following points concerning security so I will be interested to hear your comments on them:

How secure is the estate and house?

1. Botha pointed out to the court that the house had no burglar bars, and a person could easily climb through the window.

2, He further pointed out that posts at the gate of the estate could be scaled: “One could climb the fence and jump over by putting a foot on the padlock, grabbing onto the concrete pillar, and jumping over”

Judge Siraj Desai countered: “Its hazardous and extremely difficult”.

3. The estate is surrounded by electric fences and has twenty four hour security guards. Cameras were also installed in January, 2015. State prosecutor Susan Galloway said the security management would be testifying, and Botha’s point could be argued at a later stage.

But what do you think these blood drops are all about? What will he make of them?

He also said blood drops had been found on the boundary wall of 13 Goske Street, next door to the Van Breda family home.

http://citizen.co.za/news/news-nati...al-postponed-cross-examination-first-witness/

This is where things go awry in SA, claims are made and end up not being supported by evidence or forensics. I hope this judge doesn't take Botha's word for it that the stains are actually blood without proper tests and also, witnesses who have prior knowledge of the stains before that night, aren't ridiculed and called liars by Botha.


This is a funny remark by Botha, how can he deny the clear view if the judge and assessors can see it for themselves unless trees have grown since? Did the police take adequate photographs of the whole house and surrounds at the time? lease:

Botha also pointed to the lack of burglar bars on the house‚ and denied that someone in the neighbouring home (number 10) would have a clear view of the balcony of no 12.

http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/2017/04/26/Van-Bredas-advocate-attacks-speculative-media-sketch

 

[JudgeJudi]

Henri van Breda and the National Director of Public Prosecutions have been granted leave to appeal against a High Court ruling granting Media24 permission to livestream his trial.

The date for the hearing in the Supreme Court of Appeal still had to be determined.

The Constitutional Court rejected the parties' urgent appeal request on April 13.

On March 27, High Court Judge Siraj Desai granted Media24's application. He said there was no real prospect of jeopardy to the trial.

The permission did not extend to exhibits, and media would not be allowed to photograph or record Van Breda's sister Marli without prior consent.

The State and Van Breda's lawyers had opposed the application, arguing it could alter witness testimony or intimidate witnesses.

Experts could suffer reputational damage if the public tore their performances to shreds, they argued.

Desai had denied the parties leave to appeal.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/van-breda-ndpp-get-leave-to-appeal-livestream-ruling-20170426

I suspect this is why court started late yesterday and finished shortly afterwards. I still don't understand how leave to appeal can be rejected by the highest court in the land but the parties can then make an application to a lower court.

 

[JudgeJudi]

I don't like speculating when we haven't heard any testimony. I will say though that his story sounds like the biggest load of you know what I've ever heard. You can bet that the defence will fight every conceivable point tooth and nail and it will probably get pretty ugly.

The fact that the assessor is there to assist Judge Desai re the DNA speaks volumes. I have little doubt that blood found in each location, including outside, will be of great importance and will (or should) have been tested.

From HvB's version of events, ALL blood found outside the house can only be his, unless of course blood flew off the covered bodies as they were removed from the house, or spurted from Marli's wounds as she was carried out on a stretcher.

The very fact that HvB said the police officer told him he did not believe a word of his BS story says it all.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I don't like speculating when we haven't heard any testimony. I will say though that his story sounds like the biggest load of you know what I've ever heard. You can bet that the defence will fight every conceivable point tooth and nail and it will probably get pretty ugly.

The fact that the assessor is there to assist Judge Desai re the DNA speaks volumes. I have little doubt that blood found in each location, including outside, will be of great importance and will (or should) have been tested.

From HvB's version of events, ALL blood found outside the house can only be his, unless of course blood flew off the covered bodies as they were removed from the house, or spurted from Marli's wounds as she was carried out on a stretcher.

The very fact that HvB said the police officer told him he did not believe a word of his BS story says it all.

That's right, I forget their is a survivor! It could be Marli's blood splatter, or HvB or an unknown person. Worst case scenario is all 3 possibilities can't be ruled out by DNA testing, there's the 'doubt'. HvB did say he struck one of the 'laughing' assailants with the axe.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Everyone who followed Oscar Pistorius trial remember Leigh-Anne Jansen? best court reporter ever!


Leigh-Anne Jansen‏Verified account @LA_JANSEN 23h23 hours ago
More
#VanBreda #eNCA

Botha says the Defence and State have agreed to 95% of the aspects re on loco inspection
One of the aspects under dispute is whether someone could scale the wall where there is no electric fence
Botha suggests they go back to the scene to double check how easy/not it would be to climb over the fence
Desai is under the opinion it is "extremely difficult and hazardous"
Desai doesn't dispute that it's possible, though. But reiterates that it's extremely difficult and hazardous
Galloway says the State will call security guards to clarify this issue
Botha says Lorinda van Niekerk (attorney) demonstrated its possible to climb over the wall to access the property
Botha says blood drops were found on the boundary wall of 13 Goske Street ( next door)
The location of the blood drops are estimated and below the bedroom windows
Blood drops approx 2.9m from the black gate. The window is above and across from the blood drops
Botha: photographs show that shutter-like doors were partially open
Botha cites police photographs of Marli and Teresa's positions
Both were found on the landing. Marli on her back with feet in a room. Teresa was found face down
Distance between where the females were found and where axe was found= 3.66 metres
Botha concludes. Document handed in. court adjourned to Tuesday

I assume a journalist had a copy of the house plans and was able to determine the positions of Marli and Teresa by the measurements provided by Botha.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Henri's very disturbing account of what happened-

Van Breda was paralysed by the sight of a dark silhouette standing over his older brother Rudi's bed hacking him to death.

According to the statement‚ the horror story started with Van Breda watching Star Trek 2 with 22-year-old Rudi and his father. His sister Marli was in her room and his mother Theresa was cooking in the kitchen.

After the movie Henri and Rudi were the last to go to sleep in the bedroom they shared.

Both were on their computers and Rudi eventually fell asleep while Van Breda continued watching an animated series about pirates called One Piece.

He said he eventually went to the bathroom "to move his bowels"‚ taking his cellphone with him to play games. All of the doors to the rooms were open.

Then he started hearing "strange banging noises" coming from somewhere in the house.

He pulled up his pants and went to investigate.

What he saw was so strange that the 20-year-old was unable to comprehend what was happening.

According to the statement‚ he saw someone hacking Rudi to death.

The attacker was allegedly wearing a balaclava‚ dark clothes and a pair of gloves.

After he shouted for help‚ the lights came on and his father tried to save Rudi.

As Martin attempted to lunge at the attacker‚ he was struck unconscious and then the attacker started hacking at his limp body.

"The attacker was laughing as he attacked my dad‚" he said.

It was then that he heard his mother call out: "Wat gaan hier aan?" (What is going on here?)

He could not see the attacker anymore but he could hear his mother being attacked.

He claims the attacker was laughing and unconcerned about his presence.

He then confronted the attacker‚ wrestling the axe away from him‚ and said he was surprised at how easily he could disarm him.

The attacker then came again and had a knife in his other hand.

"We pushed and pulled... He tried to stab me with a knife but I could prevent him. I hit at his right shoulder and he stabbed... at the same time. I then realised I was holding the axe backwards‚'' said Van Breda in his affidavit.

The attacker headed out of the room and Van Breda claims to have hesitated and then followed.

He heard other voices in the house.

He then saw Marli and his mother outside the room and could hear his brother gurgling.

Van Breda claims he then threw the axe at the attacker and subsequently lost his footing and fell down the stairs. He then noticed that the kitchen door was open.

He said he went outside but could not see anyone and went in again. He explained that he wanted to call emergency services but had no numbers.

He tried his girlfriend at the time Bianca‚ to no avail. Then he noticed that the lights in the study were on. He saw that his mother was not moving at all‚ yet Marli and Rudi were.

He then claims to have fallen unconscious and only woke up hours later. At that stage Rudi was still making gurgling sounds.

Van Breda claims to have found an emergency number‚ which he tried first on his mobile and then from the landline.

To calm his nerves‚ he then lit a cigarette in the kitchen.

Van Breda claims he had a bad stutter as a child and that it gets worse under stress. Having been taught a technique to speak slowly and clearly‚ he attempted to use this technique while on the phone to emergency services.

He said he tried Bianca again but cannot remember how many times.

There was likely more than one stranger in the house and the one attacker he saw was black.

When police arrived‚ he was left sitting in his undergarments as detectives came and went. One told him: "We do not believe your ******** story."

The detective forced him to confirm things that he couldn't. At that stage he had nothing to eat and was sleep deprived. He claims the police saw him as guilty right from the start and he was not told he had the right to remain silent or to seek legal representation.

Van Breda sat quietly as the statement was read out. When called upon by Judge Siraj Desai to confirm anything‚ he quietly agreed‚ always buttoning his jacket when he stood up and unbuttoning it when he sat down.

http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/20...reda-family-Henri-tells-his-side-of-the-story

HvB's defence will need a miracle to get him off. He claims there were several intruders, but only one was doing all the killing! And this man wasn't bothered by HvB observing?!! HvB heard his brother dying and did nothing for nearly 4 hours other then have a cigarette and repeatedly trying to speak to his gf.

If his defence says he was delirious after being unconscious, this doesn't cover his actions beforehand, he didn't call the police or yell to the neighbours, he could have assisted his dad who was trying to protect Rudi?!



The forensic reports, which were gained by Eikestadnuus, detail how Martin, Teresa and Rudi had severe cuts to the right side of their skulls and that this was the cause of their deaths. Several other wounds were also found on their bodies.
An axe, weighing 4.5kg, was used in the attack and recovered from the scene. The impact blows were about 500kg/cm². A kitchen knife was also recovered from the scene.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/how-the-van-breda-family-members-were-killed-20160629

:jail:

 

[JudgeJudi]

O/T I have nowhere else to post this.

TimesLive has seen the trade mark document which shows Pistorius applied for his name to be trademarked in February 2015. His application was accepted in June 2016.

http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/2017/04/26/Jailed-Oscar-Pistorius-trademarked-his-own-name

 

[JudgeJudi]

Prime, I started to address your last post but it quickly became apparent that I was off on a lengthy rant. All I'll say is that I've read more than one version on some aspects of what happened. A few comments from the judge lead me to believe that he may have some reservations about a few things. It's going to be interesting.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Prime, I started to address your last post but it quickly became apparent that I was off on a lengthy rant. All I'll say is that I've read more than one version on some aspects of what happened. A few comments from the judge lead me to believe that he may have some reservations about a few things. It's going to be interesting.

In HvB's favour, JJ?

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Kleynhans, from the Stellenbosch police station, was the first police officer to arrive on the scene at about 7am on January 27, 2015.
....
He testified that he found no evidence of forced entry, but also no evidence that someone had cleaned the crime scene.
....
He said nothing looked out of place on the bottom level of the house. A laptop and handbag, with cash still in the wallet, were on the table. In Kleynhans’s experience it was not a typical scene of a burglary, where everything is usually “deurmekaar” (all over the place).
.....
White walls of 1.3 metres high surrounded the house, but none had scuff marks on them. Kleynhans said a black gate with a key in it, that would have been used by the intruders to exit the property, was closed.
......
To get medical assistance for Marli, Teresa had to be removed, but the scene remained untouched, said Kleynhans.
.....
Van Breda said by the time he signed his statement, he was exhausted and in shock and had not been warned of his rights.

“With the benefit of hindsight, they viewed me as a suspect soon after arriving on the scene. They used my statement as the basis for charging me. At no stage did any of the officers warn me I had the right to remain silent or say I could have legal representation. If I had known, I would have contacted lawyers.”

http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/vanbreda-no-signs-of-forced-entry---cop-8793834

What are my rights upon detention?

After an arrest you will, more often than not, be detained at a police station. In detention you may be searched. You may however not be searched without your consent and a person of the same sex should conduct the search. The police have the right to take your fingerprints and take photographs.

You have the right to:

· Be informed promptly of the reason for being detained.

The police must inform a detainee of these rights and when informed it must be in a language that the person can understand.
Choose to, and consult with an attorney of his/her choice, and should such person not have the means to appoint an attorney of choice, to have a legal practitioner assigned by the state at the state’s expense and to be promptly informed of such rights.
Be contained in conditions that are consistent with human dignity, including at least exercise and the provision, at state expense, of adequate accommodation, nutrition, reading material and medical treatment.
Communicate with, and be visited by, the person’s spouse or partner, next of kin, chosen religious counselor, and chosen medical practitioner.
Be presumed innocent until proven guilty.

https://www.saps.gov.za/faqdetail.php?fid=8

HvB was NOT arrested/charged after giving his statement in January 2015, so how will his claim about the police not reading him his rights be seen as a violation? :thinking:

 

[JudgeJudi]

In HvB's favour, JJ?

No. I also have plenty of questions but no doubt all will be answered by the time he's XX. I can't wait until we get to that.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Having now caught up with the story, I have to say this guy looks very guilty to me. He has had a long time to work on his "story" which still sounds highly unlikely BUT, allowing for the SA legal system, my feeling is that Botha will attempt to "do a Roux" and muddy the water by every means possible. I am hoping the forensics prove to be good.

Such a pity his sister has amnesia but probably better she never remembers what happened that night. It is the "stuff" of which nightmares are made.

Thank you everyone for the running account.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Respectfully snipped for brevity.

The forensic reports, which were gained by Eikestadnuus, detail how Martin, Teresa and Rudi had severe cuts to the right side of their skulls and that this was the cause of their deaths. Several other wounds were also found on their bodies.
An axe, weighing 4.5kg, was used in the attack and recovered from the scene. The impact blows were about 500kg/cm². A kitchen knife was also recovered from the scene.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/how-the-van-breda-family-members-were-killed-20160629

:jail:

BIB

Hi Prime. Do you know if HVB is right or left-handed? It occurs to me that for right-sided head injuries on the murder victims (unless hit from behind) the perp would need to be left-handed. When one swings an axe the lead arm (which in most cases is the right arm) would naturally swing from right to left and therefore the injuries would be on the left but I guess that only applies if one is facing one's assailant. Have I missed something?

 

[JudgeJudi]

Hi IB, Prime's not here at the moment but maybe I can help. I've seen an image somewhere where you could see the front part of the wound, but it obviously extended back onto her scalp. This will give you a reasonable idea of it's location. She suffered extensive brain damage.

There are pics on Google images where her hair is long, straight and ash blonde. That's the wig she wore after the accident.

It's been widely reported that she also suffered a severed jugular. This will obviously have to be clarified because she was allegedly attacked the same time as the others, i.e. at least 3 hours before an ambulance appeared.

So much of this story is beyond strange.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

BIB

Hi Prime. Do you know if HVB is right or left-handed? It occurs to me that for right-sided head injuries on the murder victims (unless hit from behind) the perp would need to be left-handed. When one swings an axe the lead arm (which in most cases is the right arm) would naturally swing from right to left and therefore the injuries would be on the left but I guess that only applies if one is facing one's assailant. Have I missed something?

That's a good and very important point IB, the assailant being left or right handed. I found a couple of pics, hopefully they're not in reverse, from these images it appears HvB is left handed.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...d/news-story/be2abec1c59f23f5fb1b9d4882dc55b3

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/dagga-charges-against-henri-van-breda-withdrawn-20170411


I also hope Marli never remembers that night.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Thanks JJ. Marli's injuries seem to be on her left side so that probably scotches my theory LOL. It will be very interesting if the forensics are good because they should be able to determine from the entry wound which side of the axe caused the injury, assuming they were not caused by a direct downward strike. If it can be proved they were from the left it would narrow down the murderer to almost certainly being left-handed. The percentage of left-handers in the general population is 10 per cent.

Prime, thank you for the photos. It does look as though he favours his left hand. Can't wait for the forensics.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Hi IB. Funnily enough I read a lot on the Abigail Williams and Libby German forum about which hand a left-handed person would wear their watch. I would have thought it was the right, but as it turned out the majority of lefties said the left. We live and learn.

I'll have a look at some more images tomorrow.