South Africa - Martin, 55, Theresa, 54, Rudi van Breda, 22, murdered, 26 Jan 2015 #1

[JudgeJudi]

Judge Desai states that would be a 'long story' to do all that to get into estate.

Botha maybe suggesting each intruder used a different method to gain entry and met up at the Van Breda house or garden shed?! If there's no garden shed, no need for an axe, why did the Van Breda's have an axe? The clincher will be if there is a record of who purchased the axe.

I read somewhere that enquiries were being made to find the shop it was purchased from. I've also read that the axe had been recently sharpened.

 

[Interested Bystander]

https://www.pressreader.com/south-africa/the-independent-on-saturday/20170506/281633895146400

This part of HvB's statement is true, the question is the time frame, was it before or after the attack? Did he use another toilet in those hours after the attack?

Just catching up today. Thank you for all the updates, everyone.

I don't imagine many people on that estate leave the toilet unflushed when there are still stools in the basin. I strongly suspect that HvB managed these to give his alibi some clout. Maybe he sat there for some long time until he produced the requisite evidence. How else was he going to prove he was in the loo when his brother was being attacked? He could otherwise have been in the bedroom with Rudi and clearly seen everything. Nobody would be likely to just take his word for it - he needed evidence but this is very weak evidence IMO.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 6m6 minutes ago @TimesLIVE

And we're back! The defence has setup a big screen in courtroom. Presumably to show CCTV footage but we'll see once Judge arrives.
Judge Desai steps back into court and asks defence if we will be watching any movies? Defence says no.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Just catching up today. Thank you for all the updates, everyone.

I don't imagine many people on that estate leave the toilet unflushed when there are still stools in the basin. I strongly suspect that HvB managed these to give his alibi some clout. Maybe he sat there for some long time until he produced the requisite evidence. How else was he going to prove he was in the loo when his brother was being attacked? He could otherwise have been in the bedroom with Rudi and clearly seen everything. Nobody would be likely to just take his word for it - he needed evidence but this is very weak evidence IMO.

HvB said that as soon as he heard the loud noises coming from the bedroom he stood up and pulled up his pants. What excellent timing ... he conveniently finished moving his bowels etc the minute he heard the attack on Rudi commencing. If asked why he didn't flush the toilet he could say he didn't want to attract the intruder's attention.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Just catching up today. Thank you for all the updates, everyone.

I don't imagine many people on that estate leave the toilet unflushed when there are still stools in the basin. I strongly suspect that HvB managed these to give his alibi some clout. Maybe he sat there for some long time until he produced the requisite evidence. How else was he going to prove he was in the loo when his brother was being attacked? He could otherwise have been in the bedroom with Rudi and clearly seen everything. Nobody would be likely to just take his word for it - he needed evidence but this is very weak evidence IMO.

I agree. Weirdly we're to believe he quickly rushed out of the toilet into the bedroom just to stand there while his brother and then his father were axed to death! He had to witness it because maybe he didn't want to fall into the OP trap of the 'non existent' intruder.

Botha has prepared us for what's to come too, he called HvB a boy when the first officer on the scene was under cross, and supposedly this will excuse everything, HvB's statement, no evidence of intruders, the self inflicted injuries etc etc

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 5m5 minutes ago

Defence adv Botha now continues his cross examination of De Zalze estate security manager Rossouw.

Defence Adv Botha reads from a report stating that police first arrived at De Zalze Estate at 07:40am after the murders.

@TimesLIVE


Aarti Narsee‏ @ajnarsee 5m5 minutes ago

The family had 5 access cards, Martin and Teresa had theirs on car keys, kids used remainder there #eNCA

 

[Interested Bystander]

Fingerprints on the phone would be completely irrelevant. The call charge records alone will prove whose phone it was. If the phone was wiped by anyone, the ISP can state that, just as they did with OP. While they won't be able to state who wiped it, they can certainly say when it was wiped. HvB was in the toilet when the attack commenced and he witnessed Rudi being hit “with something”. Why would an attacker search information on axe murders after the murders. The phone was not removed from the crime scene.

Hi JJ. It is not quite as simple as that. If HvB had premeditated this murder and searched for the axe murder on line he may well have done it on an unregistered phone. We don't know that yet. However, in the UK and South Africa it is still possible to pick up a free Pay As You Go (PAYG) SIM card without having to identify oneself and it is a doddle to buy over-the-counter minutes to use on it. One just needs to remember to use cash only. The use of the phone definitely would be picked up. If he was sensible he would only have used it to browse the internet when he was miles from home. Ownership of the phone would be unknown. This is a method commonly used by criminals and unless they do something stupid, such as use it at home or are found with it on their person, it is very difficult to prove it belongs to/is used by them. This is where his fingerprints would be very incriminating. He may have taken all these precautions but stupidly stored the phone at home but I suspect he will say the phone did not belong to him and was left by the intruder/s.

There are articles on the internet explaining exactly how to use a phone in this way.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Botha says the Van Bredas had five access cards.

Henri says his father had one attached to his car keys, his mother used another, then the other three were used by the children.

If Henri's card was used morning of the 27th, he wouldn't necessary know.

A preliminary report was compiled by one Jean Botha, after the incident on instruction by Rossouw. According to him, the murders occurred between 2 and 3 that morning. Rossouw says she doesn't know where Botha got this information.

Rossouw asks if the information Botha used should be available from Thorburn. Rossouw says it should be.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/live-day-7-of-the-van-breda-triple-axe-murder-trial-20170508

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Hi JJ. It is not quite as simple as that. If HvB had premeditated this murder and searched for the axe murder on line he may well have done it on an unregistered phone. We don't know that yet. However, in the UK and South Africa it is still possible to pick up a free Pay As You Go (PAYG) SIM card without having to identify oneself and it is a doddle to buy over-the-counter minutes to use on it. One just needs to remember to use cash only. The use of the phone definitely would be picked up. If he was sensible he would only have used it to browse the internet when he was miles from home. Ownership of the phone would be unknown. This is a method commonly used by criminals and unless they do something stupid, such as use it at home or are found with it on their person, it is very difficult to prove it belongs to/is used by them. This is where his fingerprints would be very incriminating. He may have taken all these precautions but stupidly stored the phone at home but I suspect he will say the phone did not belong to him and was left by the intruder/s.

There are articles on the internet explaining exactly how to use a phone in this way.

Is this what they call a 'burner' phone in the UK?

 

[JudgeJudi]

Botha asks if she saw there were more than the four "alarm ons" on the report. She says she did.

26 January at 1:08 - first alarm on. What activated this? Rossouw says when a fence test is done, that is when the alarm is activated. It is logged

Did you check that it's alarm tests?
Rossouw: no I didn't do that personally.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/live-day-7-of-the-van-breda-triple-axe-murder-trial-20170508

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 5m5 minutes ago

Botha now going through all alarms that went off during the day before the murders. Botha asks witness if she knows about them.
Rossouw says that these alarms were all security checks when the security responders touch the electric fence.

@TimesLIVE

 

[Interested Bystander]

HvB said that as soon as he heard the loud noises coming from the bedroom he stood up and pulled up his pants. What excellent timing ... he conveniently finished moving his bowels etc the minute he heard the attack on Rudi commencing. If asked why he didn't flush the toilet he could say he didn't want to attract the intruder's attention.

I really think almost everything we have heard from Botha is very weak indeed. Clutching at straws springs to mind. I live in hopes Desai has his head screwed on and brain in gear (unlike Masipa). It does seem from the odd comment he has made that he has.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 4m4 minutes ago

Botha now approaching the case of the AC power outlet disconnection that occured before murders. Rossouw says this won't make...a difference as there is a battery that gives power when any AC power connection fails.
Botha going through all checks on night of the murders with Rissouw, double checking what responder Afrika said he did was true.
Botha going through all checks on night of the murders with Rissouw, double checking what responder Afrika said he did was true.

@TimesLIVE

 

[JudgeJudi]

Rossouw says she can't confirm what causes these activations.

Energiser electrifies two zones, inside a kiosk which protects the energiser. It is protected by a beam.

Rossouw says she cant answer as she isn't an expert

The explanation on the four activations indicate a dip in the electricity levels. Rossouw says this is definitely the case.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/live-day-7-of-the-van-breda-triple-axe-murder-trial-20170508

 

[Interested Bystander]

Is this what they call a 'burner' phone in the UK?

I haven't heard that expression being used here but I know it is used in the US. A burner phone, I think, is usually bought with a certain amount of minutes on it and once used for probably nefarious reasons it is dumped.

I forgot to mention this but HvB would have needed to buy the cheapest phone on the market with cash and probably from a secondhand phone store.. It wouldn't be any good using an old contract phone that he owned but no longer used because the IMEI code would be traceable to him. More likely it would be stolen or obtained via dubious contacts.

I have to be honest and say I think it will be most likely that the phone, in some way, has HvB's ownership attached to it. He would have to have been very devious to set it up to use it in any other way.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 5m5 minutes ago @TimesLIVE

Rossouw says again there were no working alarms that night. There were only dips in power which security do not respond to.
Botha having a real go at Rossouw about alarms. Rossouw says Botha should ask experts as she has explained it as well as she can.



(please take her advice Botha, ask an expert)

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 5m5 minutes ago

Adv Botha refers to vehicle registrations access to home Henri does not recognize 1 of 3 vehicle registrations @CapeTownEtc #vanbreda


Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 5m5 minutes ago

Botha now moves onto guarded entries to the estate. He isolates one car that entered the estate with a CL number plate.
Botha now leads witness on case that happened in June 2015 where camera cables were cut to steal generator&a hole cut in fence.
Rossouw says she remembers this case&when patrol arrived to respond to the incident the thieves ran away.

Looks like we'll only be able to watch videos tomorrow morning. Judge adjourns court for day to prepare. See you at 10am sharp

@TimesLIVE

 

[JudgeJudi]

At 01:41 a patrol was conducted. Both who were on duty denied that they had been there, Botha says. Rossouw says she can't recall. Galloway objects, says both witnesses said if was long ago and they couldn't remember everything.

The next day it was confirmed that power dip caused the activation. Two different alarms - one would alert the controllers, the other would be caused by a dip in power and responders would not be sent out, Rosouw says.

Botha says info received of an incident occurred in June 9 2015, with an alarm going off at zone 23 - Spier gate - someone was sent out and when they arrived the energiser was upside down, cables damaged, hole in the fence.

Botha asks how someone managed this in four minutes. Rossouw says if it had been more than one person.

If there is no camera, one would never know, Botha tells her.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/Ne...trial-20170508

 

[JudgeJudi]

Rossouw says she recalls that hen the cars arrived and lights shone on them, they ran off. So attempt, but no actual entry. She says security officers react very quickly.

Court is adjourned.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/Ne...trial-20170508

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Is there an approximate time limit for this trial, at this rate, it will take 3 months! The Defence haven't got a leg to stand on and it shows!