South Africa - Martin, 55, Theresa, 54, Rudi van Breda, 22, murdered, 26 Jan 2015 #2

[Estelle]

Pathologist's description of family's wounds reduces Henri van Breda to tears

http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/20...o-tears?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

[Estelle]

How Marli van Breda fought for her life: pathologist tells court of 'severe scuffle' with axeman

http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/20...st-tells-court-of-severe-scuffle-with-axeman1

 

[Estelle]

OK, I hadn't realised. Do I have to include the link for every tweet or just once for the page of tweets?

No just for each page of tweets so you can miss out name of each tweeter after posting it once at the top and then the message and then the link.

 

[JudgeJudi]

HvB’s statement to the police

I was unable to find much info at all on the law relating to witness statements in SA. As their law is based on that of the UK, as is Scotland, Oz and Canada, I checked those 4 countries out too and they’re basically all the same. Sorry I couldn't get exactly what I was looking for but this is what I came up with.

If a person is making an initial voluntary witness statement to police, hasn’t been detained or arrested and is free to leave at any time, no warning of any kind needs be issued.

UK – the law
67. A witness is not entitled as a matter of law to have a legal adviser present when his/her statement is taken.

68. The situation changes if a witness turns into a suspect. You must terminate the statement-taking exercise immediately and issue the caution as required by the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 (PACE).

http://www.hse.gov.uk/enforce/enforcementguide/investigation/witness-questioning.htm#P5_1248

Witness Statement Taking
1.2 The Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 Codes of Practice provide a general principle that all citizens have a duty to help the police in the prevention of crime and apprehending offenders. When a police officer is investigating an offence (s)he is entitled to question any person from whom (s)he thinks useful information can be obtained. The fact that the person is unwilling to assist does not effect the officer’s entitlement.

12.4 Significant witnesses are those that directly witness or are victims of the most serious crimes. As an example, Significant Witnesses in a murder are those that:
(1) may have been, or may claim to have been, an eye witness or witness to the immediate event in some way.
(2) were involved in a particular relationship with the deceased or have a central position in the enquiry.

http://www.humberside.police.uk/sites/default/files/Witness_Statement_Taking.pdf

0Scotland
6.2.5 The line between who is a witness and who is a suspect is not always a clear one. In many situations, when the police question persons to elicit information about a crime, these are persons whom the police do not suspect of any involvement in the crime. The risk of such a witness incriminating himself/herself would not normally be anticipated and any unexpected incriminating statement made by him/her in response to questioning is likely to be regarded as having been fairly obtained and thus admissible against that person at any subsequent trial. However, once some form of incriminating response is made, the witness immediately becomes a suspect who must be cautioned before being questioned further.

http://www.gov.scot/About/Review/CarlowayReview/PoliceQuestioning

The paragraph re Scotland seems the clearest to me. Based on the above, I can't see why his statement can't be admissible, but I'm not a lawyer.

I read a few SA judgments while I was at it but it's really comparing apples and oranges as the facts of those cases were quite different and had multiple offenders. As this subject has been the subject of many voir dires, only a good judge can make this call.

 

[JudgeJudi]

IB, can still edit your post of tweets? If so, maybe you can go back and add the link for Molyneux' as Estelle suggested.

This was all news to me too until the other day. I've never seen it on any other threads.

 

[Estelle]

How Marli van Breda fought for her life: pathologist tells court of 'severe scuffle' with axeman

http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/20...st-tells-court-of-severe-scuffle-with-axeman1

I am wondering if Marli pretended to be dead so attacker stopped assaulting her after she possibly fell on her mother (or was she lying there grieving her mother's death?) or if she was semi-conscious then moved when she heard the ambulance men arrive.

I think that HvB must have assumed they were all dead before he called for an ambulance. He supposedly blacked out for the 2 hours 40 minutes that it took Rudi to die. As soon as he noticed this, he called the ambulance??? However, from what the pathologist said, it would probably not have taken that long for Rudi to die but I think she did not want to dispute that.

I wonder why Martin's blood was not found on the bed. Could he have been moved?

 

[Estelle]

HvB’s statement to the police

I was unable to find much info at all on the law relating to witness statements in SA. As their law is based on that of the UK, as is Scotland, Oz and Canada, I checked those 4 countries out too and they’re basically all the same. Sorry I couldn't get exactly what I was looking for but this is what I came up with.

If a person is making an initial voluntary witness statement to police, hasn’t been detained or arrested and is free to leave at any time, no warning of any kind needs be issued.

UK – the law
67. A witness is not entitled as a matter of law to have a legal adviser present when his/her statement is taken.

68. The situation changes if a witness turns into a suspect. You must terminate the statement-taking exercise immediately and issue the caution as required by the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 (PACE).

http://www.hse.gov.uk/enforce/enforcementguide/investigation/witness-questioning.htm#P5_1248

Witness Statement Taking
1.2 The Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 Codes of Practice provide a general principle that all citizens have a duty to help the police in the prevention of crime and apprehending offenders. When a police officer is investigating an offence (s)he is entitled to question any person from whom (s)he thinks useful information can be obtained. The fact that the person is unwilling to assist does not effect the officer’s entitlement.

12.4 Significant witnesses are those that directly witness or are victims of the most serious crimes. As an example, Significant Witnesses in a murder are those that:
(1) may have been, or may claim to have been, an eye witness or witness to the immediate event in some way.
(2) were involved in a particular relationship with the deceased or have a central position in the enquiry.

http://www.humberside.police.uk/sites/default/files/Witness_Statement_Taking.pdf

0Scotland
6.2.5 The line between who is a witness and who is a suspect is not always a clear one. In many situations, when the police question persons to elicit information about a crime, these are persons whom the police do not suspect of any involvement in the crime. The risk of such a witness incriminating himself/herself would not normally be anticipated and any unexpected incriminating statement made by him/her in response to questioning is likely to be regarded as having been fairly obtained and thus admissible against that person at any subsequent trial. However, once some form of incriminating response is made, the witness immediately becomes a suspect who must be cautioned before being questioned further.

http://www.gov.scot/About/Review/CarlowayReview/PoliceQuestioning

The paragraph re Scotland seems the clearest to me. Based on the above, I can't see why his statement can't be admissible, but I'm not a lawyer.

I read a few SA judgments while I was at it but it's really comparing apples and oranges as the facts of those cases were quite different and had multiple offenders. As this subject has been the subject of many voir dires, only a good judge can make this call.

This is interesting. Thanks.

From what I can remember, Henri was treated as a witness when he made his statement on the day of the crime. He then saw the Doctor who dressed his wounds. She said HvB was "jovial".

He then saw the police again and came back to her.

The police then told the Doctor that HvB was now a suspect. HvB was then in a very different mood.

Is that correct?

 

[Interested Bystander]

https://twitter.com/AJGMolyneaux


Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 16m16 minutes ago#VanBreda Botha asks for lunch adjournment as he needs to consult Dr Perumalt. X-examination continues at 2pm. Have a nice lunch!

Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 18m18 minutes ago#VanBreda Perumalt's report says Rudi could have died up to 2h40m after attack. DrA says you cannot dispute that but cannot agree either.

Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 24m24 minutes ago DrA runs through defence's pathology report,pointing out any differences between

Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 28m28 minutes ago #VanBreda DrA says skull #s in itself does not cause death,it's the consequences there of.Severe blood loss,scalp injuries,etc.

Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 31m31 minutes ago #VanBreda DrA now points out disagreements between her report & defence's pathologist report.

Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 32m32 minutes ago #VanBreda Botha runs through Perumal's report. Blood evidence is going to be a big part of this trial.

Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 37m37 minutes ago #VanBreda Galloway ends her questioning of DrA. Botha takes over. The defence have a forensic pathologist on their team&he wrote a report.

Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 39m39 minutes ago #VanBreda DrA says Rudi could have moved after attack (still able to move) or he was moved there. She cannot say exactly. @TimesLIVE

Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 40m40 minutes ago #VanBreda photo shows Rudi lying in doorway of rooms bathroom. DrA said he was attacked in bed, so judge asks why he is lying there.

Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 41m41 minutes ago #VanBreda judge agrees saying the court will decide those terms. Asks DrA to turn to death photograph of Rudi in evidence.

Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 42m42 minutes ago#VanBreda Galloway asks if she is aware of terms of overkill,crime of passion,cold blooded.DrA says yes she is.Botha objects:'speculation'

Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 45m45 minutes ago #VanBreda DrA says marli survived due to a number of factors. Depends on age,amount of blood loss,severity of wounds.

Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 46m46 minutes ago #VanBreda Galloway asks DrA how Marli survived attack.

Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 47m47 minutes ago #VanBreda In the case of Marli, using photographs, DrA says she was in a severe altercation with attacker(due to defensive wounds).

Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 48m48 minutes ago #VanBreda Teresa then fell forward, hitting her nose, and to the side, causing contusion on L trunk.

Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 49m49 minutes ago #VanBreda Teresa faced attacker & was aware of axe because she raised her hand, causing defensive wound

 

[Interested Bystander]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 1h1 hour ago
We adjourn for lunch back at 2:15pm #vanbreda @CapeTownEtc

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 1h1 hour ago
Cross examination has gone faster than I expected, I do have a few questions for Dr A but can we adjourn for lunch

@CapeTownEtc #vanbreda
Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 1h1 hour ago
Adv B: We had Dr P's report forwarded to Dr Mike Trudoux a Neurosurgeon and he was in agreement with context

@CapeTownEtc #vanbreda
Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 1h1 hour ago
You need to take into consideration amount of blood loss and and rate at which it was last.I can't with absolute certainty dispute #vanbreda

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 1h1 hour ago
Can u dispute what Dr Perumal says, that it took 2hr40m for Rudi to die. I am not at liberty to absolutely dispute @CapeTownEtc #vanbreda

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 1h1 hour ago
Para 6.6 possible to determine when actual death took place? Dr A is not able to answer with absolute certainty @CapeTownEtc #vanbreda

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 1h1 hour ago
period after the trauma. There must have been movement. Dr Perumal is correct in 6.5 #vanbreda

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 1h1 hour ago
Adv Bara 6.5 deals with location of body of Rudi. Dr A I am not blood splatter expert but I can comment on survival @CapeTownEtc #vanbreda

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 1h1 hour ago
atleast one eye #vanbreda

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 1h1 hour ago
Dr A: injury to that part of the brain, he would have been blind in atlas one eye- DR A agrees #vanbreda

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 1h1 hour ago
Dr A comments on Para 6.3 I don't disagree but he could have lost consciousness but not immediately dead #vanbreda

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 1h1 hour ago
Dr A: agrees with his finding in 6.2. disagree with the part of brain mass, heavy brain more than normal size #vanbreda

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 1h1 hour ago
but I would say its a combination of skull fractures. Adv B says yes Dr Perumal was at pains to explain that to me #vanbreda

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 1h1 hour ago
I agree with incise wounds and fractures with skull, but add skull fractures is not cause of death they cause injury to brain #vanbreda

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 1h1 hour ago
Adv B: Para 6.1 he says he agrees with what u said and what u meant with consequences thereof, thats what he explains #vanbreda

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 2h2 hours ago
Dr A; head injury entails all structures, the scalp, skull and brain itself #vanbreda

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 2h2 hours ago
Dr A: will go through paragraph by paragraph. 6.1 I differ in this case it was head injury and consequence thereof #vanbreda

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 2h2 hours ago
Comments of Dr Perumal, any of his comments that you do not agree with? #vanbreda

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 2h2 hours ago
as belonging to Rudi. Also 2 smear patterns on wall between bedroom and bathroom, also DNA analysis the blood of Rudi #vanbreda

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 2h2 hours ago
Adv B: Par 5.7 smear transfer patterns on the side and bottom of the bed, bed on which father was found.DNA analysis also identify #vanbreda

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 2h2 hours ago
Adv B: Blood on the bed DNA analysis identified that as Rudi's. Blood on the floor around Rudi's body, also identified as Rudi's #vanbreda

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 2h2 hours ago
Adv B: U would have seen Dr P had regard to scene photographs and you had regard to those too, yes @CapeTownEtc #vanbreda

 

[JudgeJudi]

This is interesting. Thanks.

From what I can remember, Henri was treated as a witness when he made his statement on the day of the crime. He then saw the Doctor who dressed his wounds. She said HvB was "jovial".

He then saw the police again and came back to her.

The police then told the Doctor that HvB was now a suspect. HvB was then in a very different mood.

Is that correct?

Yes. When he was brought in the second time, police said he was a possible suspect in a murder case.

 

[Interested Bystander]

I am really unsure why HvB is continuing to plead not guilty. His story is shot with holes. Rudi's body was found near the bathroom. According to HvB he was watching Rudi being attacked on his bed and then his dad was attacked when he was over Rudi so how would he miss Rudi's body being by the bathroom. Or have I missed something. Maybe he is going to say Rudi managed to get there whilst he was killing his mum and attacking Marli.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Adv Botha says he needs to raise an issue about the post-mortem reports and access to the media, says he has an issue with it.

Judge Desai: what about other photographs?

Adv Botha: we have taken out all the potentially harmful photographs.

Botha cross examining Dr Anthony.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/live-van-breda-axe-murder-trial-day-18-20170525

 

[JudgeJudi]

Botha asking about the attack on Martin. Indication that the attacker had struck from behind. Could it be a result of a rugby-type tackle? Would attacker be able to reach?

That would be possible. If head is face down, not able to see the attack, Anthony says.

Henri says after his father came into room, the bedroom lights were suddenly switched on and Martin entered while the attack taking place. He said his father attempted a tackle-type move and was hit on the head.

Botha reading from Henri's statement about Martin's attack. 'My dad was struck as he lunged at the attacker.'

Is that possible, he asks.

Attacker was between beds, facing toward Martin. Martin entered through door, trying to get across the bed towards the bed, lunged at him, was hit with the axe. Then received further blows.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/live-van-breda-axe-murder-trial-day-18-20170525

 

[JudgeJudi]

Anthony says this is possible.

Botha looks at crime scene photographs.

Henri immediately turns his head so he doesn't see them.

Talking about Marli: taking into consideration her injuries - was she able to move, assessor asks?

Difficult question, Anthony says, depends on the extent of injuries and compensatory blood.

Due to severe blood loss, she could still survive but head injuries made it possible she was in a semi-comatose state, but still able to move a limb in a certain degree, depending on brain injuries.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/live-van-breda-axe-murder-trial-day-18-20170525

 

[Interested Bystander]

https://twitter.com/AJGMolyneaux

Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 4m4 minutes ago
#VanBreda DrA says she needs to have more information on the 'tackle position'

Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 5m5 minutes ago
#VanBreda Botha reading from Henris statement about Martin's attack. 'My dad was struck as he lunged at the attacker.' Is that possible?

Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 6m6 minutes ago
#VanBreda tackled attacker and so was hit with the axe from above, not behind. DrA says that is possible.

Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 6m6 minutes ago
#VanBreda Botha goes to Martin's injuries on the back of his head and upper back. B asks if it's possible that it could be that Martin rugby

Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 10m10 minutes ago
#VanBreda Botha now begins questioning DrA for round 2 of the x-examination. @TimesLIVE

Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 10m10 minutes ago
#VanBreda Galloway says they are public records but she has sympathy for the victims (Marli). Judge says he will decide on this tomorrow.

Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 11m11 minutes ago
#VanBreda Botha kicks off this afternoon's proceedings with asking Judge not to allow press to access post mortem records.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Dr Anthony is excused.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/live-van-breda-axe-murder-trial-day-18-20170525

 

[JudgeJudi]

Now addressing the trial within the trial, regarding the admissibility of Henri's statement to police.

Botha says Henri made the statement when he was at least a suspect.

Botha says according to case law, even a suspect is afforded the protection of Section 35 of the Constitution. There is, however, conflicting case law.

It is clear from evidence shown, he was seen as a suspect at the time. His statement was taken that afternoon. 15:52.

Refers to Dr Albertse's examination, and her being asked if his injuries could be self inflicted.

He wasn't given food, dressed only in underpants. Questioned by Col Benecke.

His opening line was "I don't believe a word of your ******** story".

He said he would also, if necessary. call his maternal uncle and his wife.

He was taken at 9:30 to Vergelegen to complete a J88 and draw blood to check for drugs and blood alcohol levels.

Henri was already seen as a suspect, and he was entitled to be warned that he doesn't have to make a statement, had the right to consult with a legal representative and right to remain silent.

Henri hadn't had any food since the previous evening, and no sleep since the Sunday evening.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/live-van-breda-axe-murder-trial-day-18-20170525

 

[JudgeJudi]

Desai says the denial of food may be a sign of torture, but only if denied after the person asks for it.

Botha bases his reasoning on Section 35, and in addition, when Henri was repeatedly questioned and asked to sign a statement. Family and friends brought him clothes and food and weren't allowed to give it to him until he signed the statement.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/live-van-breda-axe-murder-trial-day-18-20170525

 

[Interested Bystander]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 1m1 minute ago
Its at Adv B's instance that there will be a trial within a trial Judge Desai clarifies #vanbreda

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 2m2 minutes ago
State calls Quinton Malan- first witness, establish from defense what exactly their objections are #vanbreda

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 2m2 minutes ago
Dr A again can't comment on this #vanbreda

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 2m2 minutes ago
Adv B Some statements have said that Marli struggled so much they had to hold her down to get the drip in her arm @CapeTownEtc #vanbreda

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 3m3 minutes ago
Dr A: it is possible but I need more information to comment #vanbreda

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 3m3 minutes ago
Adv B: would that be consistent with what you have seen. Dr A: I don't have opinion with the depth of her injuries @CapeTownEtc #vanbreda

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 4m4 minutes ago
Adv B: One last question - we have evidence of sergeant Kleynahs who said Marli moved her arm and Mr Koegelenberg said movement #vanbreda

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 5m5 minutes ago
Dr A: Due to extent of head injuries possible she was semi- comatose but still able to move a limb in a certain degree #vanbreda

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 5m5 minutes ago
Assessor: taking into consideration her injuries was she able to move? Dr A: difficult question depends on blood loss and type #vanbreda

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 6m6 minutes ago
Adv G has nothing further. #vanbreda

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 6m6 minutes ago
of victim being able to move around? Or do you agree with the blood spatter findings- Dr A, only movement not to blood splatter #vanbreda

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 7m7 minutes ago
Adv G: u have said u aren't a blood spatter expert, when u stated you agree with content, is that to possibility @CapeTownEtc #vanbreda

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 8m8 minutes ago
Adv B: closes and Adv G: starts re-examine #vanbreda

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 8m8 minutes ago
Dr A: that is possible as injuries are towards the right and he is facing in direction consistent #vanbreda

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 8m8 minutes ago
as if tackling and he lunged forward across the bed would that be according to the wounds? #vanbreda

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 9m9 minutes ago
Attacker was positioned between two beds facing toward general direction of father,father entered room and tried to get across bed #vanbreda

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 9m9 minutes ago
Page 188 - shows position father was found, according to client that is position in which he last saw father as well @CapeTownEtc #vanbreda

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 11m11 minutes ago
does that description make the location of wounds on Martin, possible? #vanbreda

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 11m11 minutes ago
toward attacker looked like he was trying to tackle the attacker but he was struck with the axe and his body went limp #vanbreda

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 12m12 minutes ago
Adv B:my clients version 'bedroom lights suddenly switched on and dad came into room..my dad moved toward onto bed over rudi #vanbreda

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 13m13 minutes ago
Dr A: It is possible, if his head was face down and not able to see the attacker in that position #vanbreda

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 14m14 minutes ago
even if attacker was at the front of Martin and the attacker was much higher, almost like a rugby tackle from Martin #vanbreda

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 14m14 minutes ago
Adv B: Your evidence that u adduced attack must have come from the rear area of Martin van breda? Exclude possibility of attack #vanbreda

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 15m15 minutes ago
Adv B: Your evidence re attack on the father, Martin. No problem with findings when you indicated that lacerations #vanbreda

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 16m16 minutes ago
Adv B: para 6.2 at bottom integrity of skull breached by incise. Dr A takes note of that @CapeTownEtc #vanbreda

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 17m17 minutes ago
Judge Desai says he wants time to consider no publication until then #vanbreda

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 17m17 minutes ago
State has no objection if press has access to the post mortem reports they are public but I sympathize with their views #vanbreda

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 18m18 minutes ago
Judge Desai what about other photographs? Adv B: we have taken out all the potentially harmful photographs #vanbreda

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 19m19 minutes ago
Adv Buikman (obo Marli) emplore your lordship to not allow this her client would be grateful if this isn't published @CapeTownEtc #vanbreda

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 19m19 minutes ago
Adv B needs to raise an issue about the post mortem reports and access to the media - Adv B has an issue with it #vanbreda

 

[JudgeJudi]

Botha says food and sleep deprivation is acts of torture. But is this the case for that? Desai asks.

Botha says he is not submitting that they deprived him, but when his statement was taken, it becomes relevant why decided to sign it.

Without legal representation; he did ask if he needed a lawyer, was asked why? Are you guilty?

Desai: is your real issue Section 35?

Botha: Yes. Alternatively, that the judges rules that he doesn't have to make a statement, is entitled to representation, and that statement can be used against you, wasn't afforded to him.

Galloway: the statement was taken as Henri was a witness and not a suspect.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/live-van-breda-axe-murder-trial-day-18-20170525