South Africa - Martin, 55, Theresa, 54, Rudi van Breda, 22, murdered, 26 Jan 2015 #2

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

Sonja came around 1pm, when I heard they had passed i let my family and van breda family know - the two brothers of martin
D: we then went to the stellenbosch medi clinic to see Marli- they said they are taking her to vergelegen better care

D: they couldn't let us see her
D: then we went to the police station in stellenbosch

D: we wanted to see Henri, we were not allowed to see him
D: we then saw Mathee and we asked her about seeing Henri. We were not allowed to see Henri and had to leave the police station

D: when I met her at 12 Goske I told Mathee my relationship with the van breda family
D: at that stage we were the only nearby family

D: after we left the station we made contact with christelle read jahn - James rhead jahn's mother

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/AJGMolyneaux

Marli was in hospital.Emergency unit told Andre they were taking Marli to a better hospital & he shouldnt see condition she was in
Andre says he did not drop off any clothes or food for Henri. He doesn't know where Henri got board shorts,shirt&sandals.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

D: She said that we should go to her house in somerset west. We didnt deliver any clothes or food for henri
D: when we arrived at Christelle's henri arrived with James I presume it was just the 2 of them

I think James' father went with them
D: Henri was wearing a board short, plakkies and a t-shirt

D: I don't know where he got the clothes from

 

[JudgeJudi]

They wanted to see Henri.

They weren't allowed to see him.

Asked Major Mathee if they could see Henri. They were not allowed to see him and they left the polie station.

He had introduced himself as family of Teresa and Martin.

They had no other family in Cape Town.

They're eight children, two sets of twins, he says with a laugh.

When they left police station, they contacted Christelle Reade-Jahn (James' mother). The Du Toit's then went to their home in Somerset West.

They didn't deliver any food or clothes to Henri, Du Toit says.

They were there for a while when Henri arrived with James.

Alex was also there. Ron Reade-Jahn arrived with them.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/live-van-breda-axe-murder-trial-day-20-20170530

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

D: It was very emotional when we saw henri we didnt talk much we know henri stutters if he talks quickly
D: we hugged each other and cried, Henri also cried

D: Henri's gf at the time, bianca was also there.

D: her interaction with Henri was emotional too

We went home because we had Sasha the dog with us and we wanted to take her to our house
D: Henri wanted to stay there so that he could be near Marli, this was at his request

Adv B: there is evidence that Dr van zyl handled Henri further at the hospital do u know what happened
D: Sonja looked at his wounds and said the cut looks deep and suggested he get stitches which is why he went to hospital

D: when we drove Henri was very emotional
Adv G: Mr D- u said Colonel Beneke's first words were "How was the family" what did you think he meant?

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/AJGMolyneaux

A:It was very emotional to see Henri after incident.We hugged each other&cried.When he spoke fast he stutters so we just hugged.

(NOTE: Wondering what this information has to do with the admissibility of Henris statement)

Andres wife said the cuts on Henri's chest looked deep&suggested he get stitches.He was very emotional.

Galloway takes over & asks why he thought Col. Beneke asked him the question of family's relationship. A says he's not sure.
Andre arrived at the house at 10am after the murders. They stayed around there until 1pm.
They weren't allowed to go into house.They went to stellenbosch medi clinic to see Marli because it's the only hospital in town.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

Adv G: could it have meant anything? D: it could have meant anything - G perhaps did family have problems with outsiders? D: Yes

Despite the fact that Mathee introduced herself she gave no info on what happened? why introduce herself? D: as spokesperson.
D: it was a very deurmekaar situation from the shock of hearing that the family was killed

I left bothasig at 9am - and I was at house from 10ish to 1ish on the scene
Adv G: u hung around to see what is happening. Did u speak to the police? No

Adv G: how did u know to go to stellenbosch media clinic? D: its the only hospital in stel. nobody told me marli went there
D: it was a problem that I couldn't see Marli but I accepted that a medical person was telling me the right thing

D: I went to the station only later did I find out that they were at Detectives office
D: Nobody told me he was at the detectives office Mathee didnt tell me he was at detectives office

D:if she would have told me where he was we would have driven there and if they said that they needed a statement wouldve waited
D: I wouldn't have had a problem if they were trying to find out what happened from Henri I would have waited

Adv G: Reade-Jahn family was good friends with family and van der westerhuizen family - D: I think so

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

Adv G: when u saw him he had board shorts plakkies and t shirt on which he apparently didnt have earlier?

Adv G: so Bianca's family knew where Henri was, Henri arrived with James and James' dad and his friend alex - they all knew where

they all knew where Henri was? So it wasn't that Henri was being kept all alone and away from people only you didnt know? Yes
Adv G: u said later the day when u saw henri at Rheade Jahn's house he was very emotional - D: correct

Adv G: Dr Van Zyl and Dr Albertse both said that it wasn't necessary to attend to the cuts he had? Agree? D: No

 

[JudgeJudi]

Henri was wearing a t-shirt, board shorts and flip flops.

He doesn't know where he got the t-shirt.

It was emotional. We didnt' talk a lot. We know when he speaks fast, he stutters. He speaks slowly. We hugged and cried. He says Henri also cried.

Bianca van der Westhuizen (Henri's then-girlfriend) also later arrived. It was very emotional and they cried a lot, Andre says.

They returned home with Sasha, the family dog. Wanted to take Sahsa home with them.

He stayed behind so that he could be close to Marli and go see her in hospital the next day. He requested it.

Du Toit says Sonja looked at his wound and said the cut looked deep; encouraged him to get stitches.

Henri was very emotional. We had relatively few words.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/live-van-breda-axe-murder-trial-day-20-20170530

 

[JudgeJudi]

Galloway cross-examining.

Du Toit says Benecke's words could have meant anything.

Galloway says could have meant if the family had issues with people outside. Du Toit says it could be.

Galloway asking why Du Toit introduced herself. Du Toit says she was the communications officer.

He left Bothasig at 9, arrived at 10.

He was there until about 1pm. It was hot, got cool drink.

Nobody spoke to him, but knew he was family of the deceased.

He had deduced that she was at Stellenbosch Mediclinic.

Du Toit says he accepted that he could not see her at the hospital.

He says he was certain he had gone to the police station. He hadn't been aware that Henri was at the detective offices.

What reason was given that you may not see him? Du Toit says he can't recall. They weren't told why they could not see him.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/live-van-breda-axe-murder-trial-day-20-20170530

 

[JudgeJudi]

Reade-Jahn's family good friends of the Van Bredas, as were the Van der Westhuizens.

Someone must have given him clothes, Galloway says. Du Toit agrees.

Bianca's mom apparently took it to him, Galloway says.

Du Toit says he can't argue.

Alex is a friend of Henri's.

James, Alex, James' dad arrived with Henri.

Galloway says Alex, VD Westhuizens and the Reade-Jahns knew where Henri was.

Only du Toits didn't know.

He says he introduced himself as family to police.

Galloway asking if he was present during the testimony of the two doctors. He says he was.

He doesn't agree that Henri didn't need stitches.

Du Toit doesn't know if Henri drank a beer that night.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/live-van-breda-axe-murder-trial-day-20-20170530

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

D: I have no medical training and I differ from both doctors on their views
Adv G: when dr Van zyl saw henri he had apparently drank a beer that afternoon? D: Not that I know of

Adv G: so we assume that after u left, ur wife told him to get stitches and he then proceeded to have a beer? D: I don't know
Adv G: Dr van zyl said that he was calm talkative and relaxed - opposite of how you described demeanor? D: I heard that
Dr VZ said later that he was short and quiet - do you agree this differs greatly from what you said his demeanor was? D; Yes
Adv Botha Defense closes this case (trial within a trial)


https://twitter.com/AJGMolyneaux

Galloway asks Andre about Henri's wounds. G:'You heard drs testimony that his wounds were not severe,do you agree?'A:I don't agree.
Andre says he heard testimony that Henri was friendly,chatting to staff when he came into hospital to get check up.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Dr Van Zyl described him as calm, not emotional as du Toit recalls.

When he returned the second time he was more reserved. Du Toit agrees that it's different to his behaviour when he saw him.

Du Toit excused.

Judge Desai allows matter to stand down until tomorrow morning.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/live-van-breda-axe-murder-trial-day-20-20170530

 

[JudgeJudi]

Don't you get the feeling we'll be here forever. My husband just laughs now when I tell him court is over for the day. OISA

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Du Toit thinks HvB needed stitches?

Btw, we've seen for ourselves how changeable HvB, tears one moment, calm... taking notes the next, helpful with the projector and speakers for court, hiding from Judge's view when the autopsies were discussed, crying when he heard his own voice when audio played the call to emergency.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

Judge Desai- the issues which arise in this application are complicated and as such the request to adjourn to prepare argument is reasonable
Judge Desai finds that the application will be adjourned for legal argument tomorrow


https://twitter.com/AJGMolyneaux

Andre is finished on the stand. Botha says that concludes his case of the trial within a trial.G says she needs to prepare for...legal arguments so the court has been adjourned to tomorrow morning at 10am.

 

[Tortoise]

This is so confusing. This is what Botha said to Malan yesterday -

Adv B: my client will say that du toit brough him a bag with board shorts plakkies and a t-shirt and gave to you - M not true

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Don't you get the feeling we'll be here forever. My husband just laughs now when I tell him court is over for the day. OISA

Yep, and after June 11 when they lose the courtroom? :facepalm:

 

[Interested Bystander]

That was quick. All over before visitors arrive. At least I won't have missed anything. I have another 20 minutes (10.30am in UK) before my visitors arrive. So what did we learn from that?

He did have a T shirt, don't know about track suit bottoms. du Toit was sidelined when seeking information? No questions re family tensions or not (unless I missed it). We now know where the dog is.

I feel Henri wanted to stay around to hear whether or not his sister was going to survive and what she might say.

 

[Tortoise]

https://twitter.com/AJGMolyneaux

A:It was very emotional to see Henri after incident.We hugged each other&cried.When he spoke fast he stutters so we just hugged.

(NOTE: Wondering what this information has to do with the admissibility of Henris statement)

Andres wife said the cuts on Henri's chest looked deep&suggested he get stitches.He was very emotional.

Galloway takes over & asks why he thought Col. Beneke asked him the question of family's relationship. A says he's not sure.
Andre arrived at the house at 10am after the murders. They stayed around there until 1pm.
They weren't allowed to go into house.They went to stellenbosch medi clinic to see Marli because it's the only hospital in town.

BIB this is what Botha put to Malan yesterday -

B: Du Toit (uncle) will say he was referred to Beneke who asked du toit what was the relationship of family members with each other
B: Du Toit said it was very good but he felt that B wanted to know if there was a fight? M: I wasn't present

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

Why is Botha allowed to lie?