South Africa - Martin, 55, Theresa, 54, Rudi van Breda, 22, murdered, 26 Jan 2015 #2

[JudgeJudi]

I suppose I should take hope from the fact that Desai is following and taking an active part, unlike Judge M who only seemed interested in timing the tea breaks and telling the public gallery to be quiet.

Take heart that this is a judge with 21 years' experience on the bench who isn't a fool, doesn't have to call for a break in the proceedings to consult with either law books, Du Toit or anyone else each time she can't deal with an issue in the courtroom, who knows how to deal with counsel when they're behaving improperly, oh, and a judge who knows the law.

 

[Tortoise]

[h=3]Henri van Breda’s attacker went straight for his jugular‚ the triple axe murder accused’s lawyer told the High Court in Cape Town on Tuesday.[/h]
Piet Botha introduced the claim — which was not in Van Breda’s plea statement — while cross-examining clinical forensic expert Marianne Tiemensma. He said Van Breda was not obliged to put every single detail in the statement.

read more here http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/20...-Henris-jugular‚-lawyer-tells-forensic-expert

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Botha - verreaction: :furious:


Dr T - :takeabow: :justice:

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I learned something new today, I didn't know to add links for twitter. Sorry guys.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Tortoise, I can't reply to quotes at the moment, but Oscar said exactly the same thing, i.e. that he had been advised that he didn't have to provide all details. Birds of a feather flock together in SA, especially vultures.

 

[Harmony 2]

mod note: Be sure to add a link for EACH tweet posted. Moreover, please comply with our copyright rule which only allows for 10% of an article to be copied.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&q=#vanbreda&src=typd

Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 20m20 minutes ago

Welcome back! We are in court waiting for Judge Desai to begin proceedings.

We are back. Botha continues his x-examination of DrT. B is asking DrT about Henri's stomach wound.

Botha is asking if it's possible knife was stabbed downwards or laterally,could this be a deeper cut & not pierce peritoneal cavity?
DrT argues that it would have been difficult to stab a knife in that way during a struggle but it could be possible.

DrT did not state the stomach wound was self-inflicted.

Botha takes us back to van Breda house. Photograph of pool of blood on steps.

Botha hands witness an enlarged photo of 3 steps stained with blood in van Breda home.

@TimesLIVE

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&q=#vanbreda&src=typd

Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 2m2 minutes ago @TimesLIVE

Botha states when Henri came back to consciousness(after passing out),he was on stairs. He then noticed a blood stain next to him.

Botha turns to another photograph of Henri's grey shorts. B points out blood stain on waist elastic of Henri's pants.

B states blood is Henri's (according to blood splatter expert report)

 

[JudgeJudi]

Botha continues his cross-examination of Dr Tiemensma.

Enlarged photo of part of the staircase being shown to Dr Tiemensma. A blood spot can be seen. Henri says when he regained consciousness, he was on the stairs in that vicinity, and noticed the stain on the stairs.

He now points to a blood spot on the elastic of the shorts Henri wore that morning. This, Botha says, is Henri's blood. Could stab wound have resulted in that spot? She says yes, if the blood matches his.

The blood saturated onto his boxer shorts. If it is his own blood, could that smudge (on stairs) been caused by the stab wound? Botha says police didn't take a swab of this blood. She says it depends on the position of his body when he fell.

She says there is no DNA evidence to confirm if its his.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/live-van-breda-axe-murder-trial-day-16-20170523

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&q=#vanbreda&src=typd

Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 3m3 minutes ago @TimesLIVE

B states blood also stained on Henris boxer shorts in same vicinity.
now Botha gets to his point. 'Can that blood on the stairs be caused by Henri's stomach wound? 'DrT says she can't accurately say...as there is no DNA evidence of the blood & she does not know how Henri was lying on stairs.

Botha is asking witness if that blood stain on stairs is Henri's? DrT says yes it's possible but we won't know without DNA evid.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&q=#vanbreda&src=typd

Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 17s17 seconds ago @TimesLIVE

Dr T says she needs to be careful to testify on evidence that might not be in the original state. This is after Botha asks .her...about Henris stomach wound, the blood around it & how the smudging of Henris blood could have come about.


Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 3m3 minutes ago

Dr T: has an issue with Adv B saying his client would be moving around to spread the blood all over

@CapeTownEtc

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 3m3 minutes ago

DrT: Its not a flat service, its a corner so why would you get spread on top because in that area nothing makes contact Dr T: I dont understand why a flat service (abdomen) making contact with a corner would result in a smear all around
@CapeTownEtc

 

[JudgeJudi]

If he fell forward and his body was fixed in that position, it's possible, Tiemensma says.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/live-van-breda-axe-murder-trial-day-16-20170523

 

[JudgeJudi]

According to Adv Botha, Henri regained consciousness 2 hours 40 mins later after fainting from seeing his mother and Marli.

Photos of blood on his wound is shown. She says it can't be concluded that that was the original state of the wound.

Paramedics had attended to it, and there are areas where there is no blood on the surrounding area.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/live-van-breda-axe-murder-trial-day-16-20170523

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&q=#vanbreda&src=typd

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 56s56 seconds ago

Dr T points out the areas of his body which appear to be cleaned to support her view that this is likely not what the
stab wound originally looked like (with the smear all around)

Adv B: smudge must have been made by blood that was still liquid. Dr T: Yes at the time of photo blood is dry?
Sorry Adv Botha put it to Dr T that blood was dry at the time of the photo she hasn't accepted this

@CapeTownEtc

 

[JudgeJudi]

Botha says if he was lying on the stairs and was bleeding, could it have resulted in that blood smudge? She says it is possible.

His blood would have had to run down, but there is a gap between the wound and his pants, Tiemensma says.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/live-van-breda-axe-murder-trial-day-16-20170523

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&q=#vanbreda&src=typd

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 3m3 minutes ago

AdvB:if we assume his side made contact with steps and he lost consciousness and blood started drying and if he moved
around on the staircase it could result in smear
Dr T: if it was liquid when he fell on the stairs you would expect the blood to run down the stairs
Adv B: because that part may have been covered in the shorts

Dr T: Exactly, so there could have been interference with the band of his shorts smearing the blood not the stair
Adv B: moves along,
Dr T: I get requests for second opinion often
The content of letter from police was a request to view the wounds. Not unusual for me to receive that request

@CapeTownEtc

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&q=#vanbreda&src=typd

Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 2m2 minutes ago

Botha now asks what Col. Beneke spoke to DrT about when he handed over the photos etc. for assessment.
Dr T says it was a normal conversation. Nothing unusual.
@TimesLIVE


Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 3m3 minutes ago

Adv B why would you think I was implying it is unusual Dr T doesn't know how to respond to that
Adv B: Regarding your evidence on head injuries and concussion do u agree a neurologist would be better placed
yes but as a pathologist we often deal with the after math of head injuries concussion so we can comment in general
Adv B: the injury on left eye couldve resulted in concussion Dr T agrees it could have
Adv B: My client tried to google emergency services and spelling wasn't right is that a sign of concussion

Dr T: no as he was still performing a goal directed activity trying to get hold of emergency services

@CapeTownEtc

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&q=#vanbreda&src=typd

Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 2m2 minutes ago @TimesLIVE

Dr T is a forensic pathologist & says she knows about head injuries & can testify on them.B asks if Henri's forehead swelling....could have caused a concussion. Dr T says yes. B asks if it's probable that Henris slurred speech on emergency call could be as...a result of a concussion. Dr T cannot definitively say that as there could have been a number of reasons for that.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Referring to the bump to Henri's head. Tiemensma said it could have resulted in concussion.

She says he knew what he was doing when he Googled emergency services. Could be he had mild concussion, but wont give loss of consciousness for hours.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/live-van-breda-axe-murder-trial-day-16-20170523

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&q=#vanbreda&src=typd

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 2m2 minutes ago

Adv B: refers her to para in forensic book
AdvB reading concussion may not result in falling to the ground,minor injuries have given rise to long unconsciousness
T: yes but I have article where they state that longer concussion is usually from serious head injuries she gives B article detail
Author of the article is a neurologist

@CapeTownEtc