South Africa - Martin, 55, Theresa, 54, Rudi van Breda, 22, murdered, 26 Jan 2015 #2

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&q=#vanbreda&src=typd

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 3m @CapeTownEtc

Adv B: U also referred to nature and extent of injuries of other members of family - inflicted with an axe- Dr T: yes
Adv B has no other questions but he has asked, if he can ask her back if after consulting with his neurologist it is necessary

Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 4m4 minutes ago @TimesLIVE

DrT has brought an article on concussions with her.Botha reads from his excerpt about concussions stating a small bump could...cause a serious concussion. Dr T reads her excerpt stating concussions resulting in longer unconsciousness would be more severe.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Henri had constricted pupils and slow reaction to light, Botha says.

Tiemensma says constricted pupils could even be result of drugs, not limited to concussion.

Botha says Henri is certain that paramedics didn't clean his wound as those who took the photo wanted to document them as it was at the time. She says she cant comment on that.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/live-van-breda-axe-murder-trial-day-16-20170523

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&q=#vanbreda&src=typd

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams 2m2 minutes ago

Adv B- my client says that he is absolutely certain no cleaning of the wound by medical personnel because photos
were still to be taken. Dr T: even if they didnt clean they may have put pressure on the wound
Adv B: are you in a position to dispute his evidence? Dr T: you asked my opinion so I am telling you what I think
Dr T: If you compare his version to my opinion, there is a dressing another gauze could have been applied ?

@CapeTownEtc

Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 3m3 minutes ago @TimesLIVE

Henri tells Botha that he is certain that medical personnel didn't clean his wounds as they wanted to document his injuries first.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Botha finishes his cross examination. Court adjourned until 10am tomorrow.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/live-van-breda-axe-murder-trial-day-16-20170523

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&q=#vanbreda&src=typd

Anthony Molyneaux‏ @AJGMolyneaux 2m2 minutes ago

DrT says she cant comment on that but her opinion is that we just don't know what was done to wound when pictures were taken.
B settles his x-examination and yup, you've guessed it, court adjourned till tomorrow morning 10am for next witnesses. @TimesLIVE

 

[Tortoise]

Thank you ladies for your hard work with updates again.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Adv Botha was definitely outclassed by Dr T. He will be fuming. This was very important, critical evidence. I suppose now we are going to get his witness saying just the opposite.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

As far as I can tell, SA public isn't buying it. How long will this charade go on? Are the Van Breda family ready for what's to come? The more Botha digs, the bigger the hole, better stop digging. :/

 

[JudgeJudi]

I wonder if the SAPS have investigated HvB's alleged drug use. If they have and know the name of his drug dealer, who IIRC has spoken out about supplying HvB, the SAPS could make him a section 204 witness.

A section 204 witness is one who is given an indemnity from prosecution if he tells the truth while testifying against the accused and in doing so incriminates himself. His evidence cannot be used by the police if they subsequently charge the witness with the offence - they must use their own evidence to secure a conviction. The same applies in Oz.

 

[Harmony 2]

Ok I went back and cleaned up the thread. You all owe me a cappuccino!

link

Looks like most of the tweets are coming from the following links:

https://twitter.com/ajgmolyneaux?lang=en

https://twitter.com/traceyams?lang=en

https://twitter.com/tammypetersen87?lang=en

https://twitter.com/ewnreporter?lang=en

https://twitter.com/hashtag/vanbreda?lang=en

https://twitter.com/ajnarsee?lang=en

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I wonder if the SAPS have investigated HvB's alleged drug use. If they have and know the name of his drug dealer, who IIRC has spoken out about supplying HvB, the SAPS could make him a section 204 witness.

A section 204 witness is one who is given an indemnity from prosecution if he tells the truth while testifying against the accused and in doing so incriminates himself. His evidence cannot be used by the police if they subsequently charge the witness with the offence - they must use their own evidence to secure a conviction. The same applies in Oz.

Also, could a drug be undetected by their drug lab, a new drug on the market? Or was he tested more than 24 hrs later. Hmmm

The constricted pupils? Question for anyone, Botha mentioning again HvB's pupils, is this with natural light because if a light is shone in the eyes, the pupil constricts.

 

[Tortoise]

Henri seems to be forgetting that if he was concussed he would be confused with his recall of events.

When he came round (allegedly) he saw the blood on the step. But his description makes me think it was the first thing he saw. It wouldn't have been next to his eyes if it was from the area of his waistband, it would have been at least 3 or 4 steps lower than his head, and underneath him. Maybe he decided to lay himself there purposely and tried to get a smear there. Nothing would surprise me.

Anyway, what is the significance of whether or not it was his blood on the step? Are they saying it proves anything? I would imagine a large amount of blood would have been on the axe that was thrown down the stairs. The blood on the step neither proves nor disproves his version.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Ok I went back and cleaned up the thread. You all owe me a cappuccino!

link

Looks like most of the tweets are coming from the following links:

https://twitter.com/ajgmolyneaux?lang=en

https://twitter.com/traceyams?lang=en

https://twitter.com/tammypetersen87?lang=en

https://twitter.com/ewnreporter?lang=en

https://twitter.com/hashtag/vanbreda?lang=en

https://twitter.com/ajnarsee?lang=en

Thankyou Harmony2 :tyou:

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Henri seems to be forgetting that if he was concussed he would be confused with his recall of events.

When he came round (allegedly) he saw the blood on the step. But his description makes me think it was the first thing he saw. It wouldn't have been next to his eyes if it was from the area of his waistband, it would have been at least 3 or 4 steps lower than his head, and underneath him. Maybe he decided to lay himself there purposely and tried to get a smear there. Nothing would surprise me.

Anyway, what is the significance of whether or not it was his blood on the step? Are they saying it proves anything? I would imagine a large amount of blood would have been on the axe that was thrown down the stairs. The blood on the step neither proves nor disproves his version.

Exactly tortoise! The hours he spent concocting his ridiculous story! Also, HvB says he hit the assailant with the blunt edge of the axe, where is the blood/clothing fragments/hair/skin on the axe, on the ground or walls?

 

[Tortoise]

I remember reading at the beginning that we were going to hear from an expert that footprints had been mopped up. Is this for definite and how did that bit of information get leaked?

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I remember reading at the beginning that we were going to hear from an expert that footprints had been mopped up. Is this for definite and how did that bit of information get leaked?

There is reference to the mop, if there is blood residue, HvB in more trouble.

The photos show cloths and a mop head on the washing line which were later bagged as evidence. Presumably these images refer to count five of the indictment, which accuses Van Breda of tampering with the crime scene.
This includes the photos of what the captions call “presumable blood” on the basin, shower door handle and towel in one of the bathrooms of the Goske Street murder house.

http://www.iol.co.za/ios/news/this-...d-henri-van-bredas-parents-an-brother-8976410

Also, did HvB have a shower before he inflicted injuries on himself? He washed away their blood to replace it with his own?

 

[Tortoise]

There is reference to the mop, if there is blood residue, HvB in more trouble.



http://www.iol.co.za/ios/news/this-...d-henri-van-bredas-parents-an-brother-8976410

Also, did HvB have a shower before he inflicted injuries on himself? He washed away their blood to replace it with his own?

I wonder. I can just hear Botha now - someone in the family had a cut (one of the lads cut themselves shaving) and there's no proof it was deposited there that night. Precious didn't clean their bathroom that day because she ran out of time.

So predictable.

 

[Tortoise]

I wonder if he attacked them naked? So that he could shower and not have the problem of bloodied clothes to get rid of.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Prime, I read that article but I must have missed the para. about the basin, shower door handle and towel in one of the bathrooms. Obviously it is the reason why he was charged with tampering with the crime scene, but more importantly, surely that will be crucial circumstantial evidence that goes towards proving his guilt.

Apart from his word about there being an intruder, so far there's not one shred of evidence to prove this. He said the intruder wore gloves, but why weren't HvB's fingerprints on the axe handle or on the knife. He didn't just touch the axe handle, he gripped it with pressure whilst wrestling it from the intruder and he also said he threw it. I simply can't believe there's a way of justifying this, not that I'm a fingerprint expert

 

[Tortoise]

Let's hope they DNA tested the blood in the bathroom.