South Africa - Martin, 55, Theresa, 54, Rudi van Breda, 22, murdered, 26 Jan 2015 #2

[Estelle]

List of One Piece films

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_One_Piece_films

 

[Interested Bystander]

Methamphetamine, Psychosis and the Insanity Defence... a study from New Zealand

http://www.otago.ac.nz/law/research/journals/otago036292.pdf

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=...is+and+the+Insanity+Defence+South+African+law

Alcohol, Drugs of Abuse, Aggression, and Violence

https://www.nap.edu/read/4421/chapter/5

I am wondering whether HvB gets drunk easily. That night, he admits to drinking two red wines, a whisky and one coke and rum alone. So HvB mixed his drinks and had three different types of alcohol that he is admitting to. I predict he possibly had more especially after they went to bed. IMO his "fainting" for about 2 hours 20 minutes could have been time for him to sober up before the ambulance and police arrived. One policeman smelt alcohol on his breath and so did a doctor.

I cannot remember when his blood test was taken, I don't think they did a breath test. But there seems to be no evidence of drugs or alcohol.

I don't think he showed positive for drugs but I think we have not heard the alcohol reading. He did not have blood tests until the afternoon of the murders and then admits to having a drink before he went to the doctor. Maybe this was intentional in an attempt to throw the medics off the scent. However, if we are awaiting the results of tests for alcohol they would have been taken 12 hours after the event. How much he might have cleared in that time I am unsure. If he had been drinking heavily I think there would be some evidence.

Today I have been reading about psychosis etc and it seems to me that if any permanent damage to the brain has occurred in the past due to drug taking, violent behaviour may be triggered at any time in the future, assuming he has shown violent/aggressive tendencies earlier. If I read it correctly this may occur without further drug taking. He did have a brain scan in Australia which showed a 'spot' which was deemed nothing important. There must have been a reason for him to have had a brain scan. These are not routinely ordered. I do wonder whether maybe he had been showing personality changes whilst in Australia, possibly due to smoking cannabis. We know he was/is a smoker. All guesswork on my part and I do wonder whether we will ever get the true story.

 

[Interested Bystander]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams


@wackywineweekend was just told, Henri is also here with his GF living his best - felt so awkward re potentially meeting him

 

[Interested Bystander]

Re my post above. Does this remind you of anyone? A murder charge hanging over him and yet goes out enjoying himself as though nothing has happened. I wonder whether he will be approached by anyone, as Oscar P was. Difference being he is a big powerful looking boy whereas Oscar was a bit of a wimp.

 

[Tortoise]

I am going off at a tangent here but:-

I have a suspicion that HvB is mentally ill (possibly due to his heavy drug taking). He may not have had drugs in his blood at the time of the murder but is brain damaged from his past habit. He possibly had a psychotic event after/during an argument with his family and lost all control. Nobody in their right mind would kill in the way he did without being very disturbed.

I wonder if when HvB is found guilty B. will bring his mental health into the equation and possibly have him assessed. Would it be possible to implement this before his imprisonment term is determined? Or would it be too late?

Below is a link to an interesting article on mental health and the judiciary in South Africa


“Legal aspects with regard to mentally ill offenders in South Africa”

http://www.scielo.org.za/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S1727-37812015000100010

There are a few clues which, for me, point to him being in full control. It would puzzle me if this was an out of control event.

One is that he seems to have had a plan worked out for dealing with the family one by one, drawing them in and using the element of surprise, and dealing with the men first. Not only that but it was frenzied but not so frenzied that he lost sense of what the others were doing and having to manage them before they got away.

Two is that he may have worn gloves, because he put gloves on the imaginary intruder and I think it would have been really difficult to wipe fingerprints off the axe handle without it being obvious that blood that was there had been wiped away too. We know he went for at least one walk, and it would have been easy to hide gloves in someone's bin or a bush or buried them somewhere.

Three is that he had awareness of reality and therefore didn't have the courage to really hurt himself, or to phone emergency services until much later and four is that he remembers the events and the sequence.

On another note I'm intrigued that he left the attack on Marli out of his statements. He could not bring himself to lie about her because he didn't know if she would survive and remember, so he just left it out.

I'm hoping we will hear a medical opinion on Marli's ability to have survived the cut to her jugular vein, and whether it had to have been inflicted later than the head injuries.

 

[Interested Bystander]

There are a few clues which, for me, point to him being in full control. It would puzzle me if this was an out of control event.

One is that he seems to have had a plan worked out for dealing with the family one by one, drawing them in and using the element of surprise, and dealing with the men first. Not only that but it was frenzied but not so frenzied that he lost sense of what the others were doing and having to manage them before they got away.

Two is that he may have worn gloves, because he put gloves on the imaginary intruder and I think it would have been really difficult to wipe fingerprints off the axe handle without it being obvious that blood that was there had been wiped away too. We know he went for at least one walk, and it would have been easy to hide gloves in someone's bin or a bush or buried them somewhere.

Three is that he had awareness of reality and therefore didn't have the courage to really hurt himself, or to phone emergency services until much later and four is that he remembers the events and the sequence.

On another note I'm intrigued that he left the attack on Marli out of his statements. He could not bring himself to lie about her because he didn't know if she would survive and remember, so he just left it out.

I'm hoping we will hear a medical opinion on Marli's ability to have survived the cut to her jugular vein, and whether it had to have been inflicted later than the head injuries.

I can fully understand your opinion and I don't disagree. I suppose I find it very odd somebody could inflict such awful injuries on a family member, let alone the entire family, when the family appeared so close knit.

I think there were underlying difficult dynamics within the family which nobody seems to want to admit or, perhaps, they genuinely did not know. I know this occurs because it happened in my own family. My father's family were totally oblivious to how difficult he was; an always angry, unforgiving person who expected excellence in everything we, as children, did. Not that it drove any of us to do anything criminal but I am sure all of us often wished him elsewhere. What drives somebody over the edge to commit such a devastating crime?

I suspect Bianca knows more than she is saying. What ended their relationship which she seems to downgrade? Why would someone protect a murderer? I feel she was not completely honest in her testimony. That is something I find difficult to understand. Like you, I have no time for dishonesty.

 

[L2L]

As well as everything else that's been said here I believe HvB is a malingering coward who won't want to testify unless forced to do so but who will expect his legal team to have him acquitted regardless.

 

[L2L]

Re my post above. Does this remind you of anyone? A murder charge hanging over him and yet goes out enjoying himself as though nothing has happened. I wonder whether he will be approached by anyone, as Oscar P was. Difference being he is a big powerful looking boy whereas Oscar was a bit of a wimp.

If anything makes my blood pressure rise, it's that! Out enjoying himself having killed all but one of his family. How does someone become like that? What on earth makes them tick? Can't begin to fathom it.

 

[Mette]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams


@wackywineweekend was just told, Henri is also here with his GF living his best - felt so awkward re potentially meeting him

If Tracey is correct that Henri was at a popular local wine festival this weekend...



... then this guy, on trial for parricide and fratricide, feels indomitable and has no boundaries.

I suspect even his legal team, astonished that he's out of jail during his trial, are thinking, what the hell are you doing, Henri?

 

[Mette]

On another note I'm intrigued that he left the attack on Marli out of his statements. He could not bring himself to lie about her because he didn't know if she would survive and remember, so he just left it out.

He did state that Marli was alive at the end of the carnage, and that he ignored her.

But yes, during his fantasy play-by-play game in his head with the males he acknowledges Teresa but blocks out Marli.

 

[Tortoise]

I wonder how he will explain these laughable inconsistencies:


5

I then stand there afraid to go out of the toilet. I then started to shout for help.

6

I then can hear that this person was busy assaulting my mother in the passage. I then went out of the toilet..

8

I then started to ran after him
I then went to the back door and discovered that the back door was standing open and then went outside but saw no-one.

I then went back inside the house because I was afraid to follow him because I did not know what he had on him.

10

I then opened front door went outside for a bid [bit]

 

[JudgeJudi]

Day 23

Today’s live news feed:

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/live-van-breda-axe-murder-trial-day-23-20170605#cxrecs_s

 

[Fluffykins]

I hadn't planned on getting interested in this but now it's all happening, I am!
Thanks to all of you regulars for all your posts, thoughts, opinions, info etc.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Not a peep out of journos. :waiting:

Could they have been given access to the autopsy pics and detailed reports and compiling them now?

 

[JudgeJudi]

Good morning/good evening everyone. I hope everyone had a great weekend.

HvB has such dead looking eyes. I can’t stand looking at him.

It looks like we’re having another late start … as per usual. OISA

 

[L2L]

Good morning/good evening everyone. I hope everyone had a great weekend.

HvB has such dead looking eyes. I can’t stand looking at him.

It looks like we’re having another late start … as per usual. OISA

Good evening, JJ! Yes. the eyes!

 

[JudgeJudi]

:welcome4: Fluffykins

Do join in. The more the merrier.

 

[JudgeJudi]

As well as everything else that's been said here I believe HvB is a malingering coward who won't want to testify unless forced to do so but who will expect his legal team to have him acquitted regardless.

According to his lawyer he's eager to tell his side of the events that led to his family's death. Sure he is. I've got the buckets lined up in a row.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Good morning/good evening everyone. I hope everyone had a great weekend.

HvB has such dead looking eyes. I can’t stand looking at him.

It looks like we’re having another late start … as per usual. OISA

Good evening/morning JJ and everyone. HvB has the same effect on me, can't stand him!!! I'm a leeetle bit biased! :tsktsk:

 

[L2L]

Good evening, JJ! Yes. the eyes!

The eyes are a window to the soul!