South Africa - Martin, 55, Theresa, 54, Rudi van Breda, 22, murdered, 26 Jan 2015 #4

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

G: but that is the statement malan testified he took down from you? H: yes but these are not my words

G: but the information comes from you? H: in one way or another but these were not the words coming out of my mouth

H: the jist of it is true, it was based in fact so to speak

G: so whatever is in the statement is not ur version its untruths or events made up by the police? H: no I'm not saying that

H: there is a significant amount of information left out?

G: when the attacker exited the room the second time, u have disarmed him he is fleeing, would he have been aware that u are

G: at that point in time, still alive in the room? H: correct

G: the staircase is not very wide H: its standard stair case, not thin

G: it would be difficult to walk next to each other up the stairs? H: No I have walked up next to someone

G: how steep? H: I would say normal stairs not steep or shallow


https://twitter.com/HiRezLife

Botha hops up, irritated, aggravated: Can you please tell this witness (my client) to speak up. I can't hear a word he's saying!

 

[JudgeJudi]

#VanBreda reiterates that the police statement was not in his words. Gist of it is true. Based in fact.

Adv Botha: "I know he's my client, but can you please ask him to speak up. I can't hear a word he's saying". #VanBreda stands, speaks louder.

#VanBreda asked to work out where he was when he threw the axe. "No, I can't."

Running movement, walking? #VanBreda: Running. Attacker was also running.

Didn't see attacker trip or fall like he did.

[url]https://twitter.com/TeamNews24[/URL]

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

G: if at all can u by way of inference try work our where u were after u threw the axe at attacker H: no I cant

G: when u threw the axe were u moving forward? H: yes I was

G: your movement was it runnning, walking? H: running G: and the attacker? H running

H: and at that time he was on the middle landing near to where I ended up, just above the middle landing

G: did he fall or trip when going down the stairs? H: No

G: u mentioned that u saw Marli moving one leg? H: so her body didnt move from where u saw her to where she was found

H: correct she was in round about the same position [her body]

 

[JudgeJudi]

Could you have been outside room at top of stairs when you threw it?

#VanBreda: possible.

Says he didn't process mom, Marli lying there.

Could've been rather close to fleeing attacker?

#VanBreda: Possible. No. Throwing of axe just happened.

Desai says VB disarmed himself.

VanBreda tells Judge Desai he threw axe at man. Think he was at top of stairs and man at middle of landing.

[URL]https://twitter.com/TeamNews24[/URL]

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

G: u also could not have been on the other side of marli and your mother closer to your parents room? H: correct

G: could u have been somewhere on the actual set of stairs?

G: so it may have been possible for u to be rather close to the fleeing attacker? H: its possible actually no

I threw the axe as soon as I saw the attacker so I could not have made it to the stairs

G: had u been closer to the stairs and attacker u could have just hit him with axe as Joubert commented? H: correct

H: but at the time I did not make a conscious decision to throw it

Desai but u disarmed the attacker by taking the axe and the disarmed your self in a significant way by throwing the axe?

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

H: I know it wasnt a very wise move

J Desai asks why would #vanbreda throw the axe, as he was disarming himself

Desai: how far were u? H: I threw it at him not sure how far he was likelihood of injuring him good if it had struck him

G: u in actual fact aimed for the attacker who was on the middle landing of the stairs and missed him

H: yes unfortunately I missed him G: and by quite some distance? H: yes

G: when u still had the axe in your hand and dropped the knife and u are at the top of the stairs and instinct makes u throw it

G:at the attacker?H:correct G: and if the opinions of Brown,that axe by some co-incidental event hits axe into wall above landing

G: u threw the axe? H: correct G: and at that stage it had ur brothers blood on it so it must have been thrown after attack

G: it couldn't have been the attacker had thrown it there before? H: no I threw the axe

G: so u have the axe in your right arm and the sharp edge is facing u? so odds of hitting the wall with sharp edge low?

Desai that is an unfair questions. G: I withdraw


https://twitter.com/HiRezLife

Desai: You disarmed the attacker...but then by throwing the axe you disarmed yourself. Parallel universe stuff.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Galloway: You missed him by quite some distance. The hole is on the upper part of the wall.

#VanBreda: OK.

What injuries sustained by falling down stairs? #VanBreda infers grazes on his back.

And the scratches? From the stairs, he says.

[url]https://twitter.com/TeamNews24[/URL]

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

G: the fall on the stairs, u did not actually fall down the stairs? H: I am not sure

G: are u able to tell the court what injuries u sustained? H: no but I can infer from J88 I had marks on my back

G: scratch marks on your back? H: that would have been from the stairs

Desai so more accurate to say you tumbled down? H: Given length of stairs it could have only been one fall

Desai: smooth tiles? H: no they are rough tiles

G; despite you not knowing the motion of your fall u are sure the injuries were from the fall? H:I am not sure, I infer

G: whatever injuries u sustained u still able to get up immediately after the fall? H: yes

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

G: when u got up after the fall were u running down the stairs or walking? H: I wasnt walking I was rushing

G: at that point in time except for the light in your father study was there any light on downstairs? H: no

H: after I had fallen down the stairs I did not say the attacker again

Desai: why did u not see them? H: I dont know presume they are not around anymore

G: why did u approach the kitchen door? H: I think instinctively as we always kept the backdoor open

H: I didn't give it alot of thought but I could see the back door standing wide open

G: with the back door u are referring to the door that leads to outside of the house, through which window were u able to observe?

H: the window at the end of the corridor

 

[JudgeJudi]

After #VanBreda fell down stairs, he didn't see him again.

VanBreda went to back door instinctively because the door was usually unlocked. At the time it was standing wide open, he says.

Adjourn for lunch.

[url]https://twitter.com/TeamNews24[/URL]

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

G: at that point u noticed the back door was standing open? H: yes

G:at this point u notice the back door open but u never registered your sister and mom lying on the floor had been attacked

H: correct

G: so if they had exited the property from there they must have climbed over the wall and exit through neighbours property or run completely around the house and exit at the gate at the side of house? H: correct

G: and if they had exited around house they would run over paving stones and pebbles? Not a soft area? H yes

Desai: would u have to have to have some knowledge of the area to step carefully? H: I suppose so

We adjourn for lunch, back at 2pm

 

[JudgeJudi]

Wow, what a day - HvB, Rohde and Panayiotou judgment (which has been going for close to 3 hours and still not finished. Prime, you'll be more than pleased to hear that Chetty has had some scathing words to say to Price).

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I find it strange that Botha has not instructed his client to be respectful to the Judge. He says, huh? when asked questions by Judge Desai, he often doesn't answer directly to the Judge he looks at Galloway and he never says, M'Lord. Unless he is defying Botha but somehow I doubt it.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Wow, what a day - HvB, Rohde and Panayiotou judgment (which has been going for close to 3 hours and still not finished. Prime, you'll be more than pleased to hear that Chetty has had some scathing words to say to Price).

I can't wait to check it out. People are commenting in chat about Panayiotou trial too!

 

[JudgeJudi]

I can't wait to check it out. People are commenting in chat about Panayiotou trial too!

I've been listening to CP, watching HvB minus sound, and tweeting. Will listen to CP in the morning as I've missed the bulk of it but what I've heard has been powerful. He doesn't mince his words. Will watch HvB again tomorrow.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Just logging in. Thank you JJ and Prime for an excellent job.

 

[Fluffykins]

Wow, what a day - HvB, Rohde and Panayiotou judgment (which has been going for close to 3 hours and still not finished. Prime, you'll be more than pleased to hear that Chetty has had some scathing words to say to Price).

Beats me how you can follow more than one at a time - it's all I can do to keep up with this one! :blushing:

 

[Fluffykins]

RSBM

https://twitter.com/HiRezLife

Describing Rudi's death throes: "Random movements." Desai: Were they convulsions? "Yes."

could hear Rudi's gurgling sounds from kitchen. (Rudi was in upstairs bedroom). Sounds like Rudi tried hard to live, cry out.

I know it sounds like a ridiculous thing to say, but I can never forgive HvB for what he did to Rudi, because I take it personally.

I assume his beef was mainly with parental authority, but his beef with Rudi was all about jealousy. Me being the older sister - the hard working, not particularly good looking one - my younger sister, an exceptionally pretty girl with an exceptional talent, but bone lazy, expected she would always outshine me. As young adults, when she realised I was the one with the husband and house etc, while she had none of those things, well, that was when the spite really erupted.

A jealous sibling is a hateful thing. And Rudi's life ended in the saddest way, poor boy, simply because of his brother's insane jealous rage. :notgood:

 

[Interested Bystander]

Having caught up, it seems to me that HvB is expecting Desai to believe his ludicrous explanations and protestations that the police did not take down an accurate record of his interviews. Whilst attempting to portray himself as an adult, sophisticated young man HvB projects rather like a 10 year old when attempting to get out of a scrape by obfuscating.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

RSBM



I know it sounds like a ridiculous thing to say, but I can never forgive HvB for what he did to Rudi, because I take it personally.

I assume his beef was mainly with parental authority, but his beef with Rudi was all about jealousy. Me being the older sister - the hard working, not particularly good looking one - my younger sister, an exceptionally pretty girl with an exceptional talent, but bone lazy, expected she would always outshine me. As young adults, when she realised I was the one with the husband and house etc, while she had none of those things, well, that was when the spite really erupted.

A jealous sibling is a hateful thing. And Rudi's life ended in the saddest way, poor boy, simply because of his brother's insane jealous rage. :notgood:

Thanks for sharing Fluffykins, sometimes these cases can bring up situations we've personally encountered.
I feel the saddest for Rudi too! He seemed to be the obedient son, the diligent student, a good friend and maybe, it all got a bit much, he said some harsh home truths to HvB that night.
Rudi hadn't got to spread his wings and HvB's jealousy and pure hatred put an end to it all!