South Africa - Susan Rohde, 47, murdered, Stellenbosch, 24 July 2016

[JudgeJudi]

Perumal says Susan even had rib fractures. Suggests they were caused by CPR. Sorry but that's nuts.

Maybe Nick should Google "is it common to fracture ribs when performing CPR".

 

[Tortoise]

I really hope ENCA can livestream Rohde tomorrow because I want to see Perumal's cross-examination more than anything else. I would even watch that in preference to Henri van Breda's sentencing and watch that on catch up. News24 don't seem to be able to livestream both trials simultaneously.

 

[Tortoise]

Maybe Nick should Google "is it common to fracture ribs when performing CPR".

Except there seems to have been a blood circulation at the time of the rib fractures if I'm understanding Perumal's evidence correctly.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Except there seems to have been a blood circulation at the time of the rib fractures if I'm understanding Perumal's evidence correctly.

I'll leave it to the pathologists to slug it out.

 

[Dora in the field]

Live Streaming will be on #VanBreda, not Rohde. Not enough cameras/personnel, et. Darn. At least we get to watch something live. Maybe VanDerSpuy will ask for another adjournment tomorrow am? #WishfulThinking
@Truth2Come

oh no, I was looking forward to watching Dr. Perumal's testimony live!

 

[Tortoise]

Darn it!

 

[CindyDean]

Maybe Nick should Google "is it common to fracture ribs when performing CPR".

A friend who does CPR once told me, if you don't fracture or even break ribs, then you're probably not doing CPR properly...

 

[CindyDean]

Thank you CindyDean for sharing your experience.

Regarding your question, the pathologist for the state noted abrasions on Susan’s body that were consistent with dragging.

The handyman who was called to open the bathroom door testified that the victim was laying on the floor naked, while Jason instists that she had a gown on.

Thanks Dora. I was thinking the handyman knew of something on tje shoulder that would obviously only be visible to him if shoulder was exposed...

 

[patCee]

So it seems that both pathologists are very experienced in their field. So who to believe, did the internal bleeding from broken ribs occur before or post mortem. I have heard of CPR breaking ribs. Nevertheless it's hard to believe Kahn's assertion it happened prior to death is mistaken. He can't be that out of date, can he?

 

[Dora in the field]

So it seems that both pathologists are very experienced in their field. So who to believe, did the internal bleeding from broken ribs occur before or post mortem. I have heard of CPR breaking ribs. Nevertheless it's hard to believe Kahn's assertion it happened prior to death is mistaken. He can't be that out of date, can he?

I would like to add here that Dr. Khan's findings were supported by Dr. Abrahams. So it is two pathologists against one.

 

[Dora in the field]

Jason Rohde's Evidence-in-Chief Step-by-step infographic
(source: Miller Bosman Le Roux law firm)

 

[patCee]

I would like to add here that Dr. Khan's findings were supported by Dr. Abrahams. So it is two pathologists against one.

Thank you Dora, I didn't know about Dr Abrahams.

 

[tmar]

Perumal acknowledges that he knows about Jason's version of events that night. VDS asks if he found injuries to rule that out. "No there is nothing I can specifically say that is totally inconsistent with the version he has put before this court.

Court adjourns for the day. Dr Perumal will continue with his testimony at 9:30 on Thursday morning.

Team News24 (@TeamNews24) | Twitter

I am worried.
Perumal's comment:
"No there is nothing I can specifically say that is totally inconsistent with the version he has put before this court".
YUK.

 

[Tortoise]

Thank you Dora, I didn't know about Dr Abrahams.

Yes, she is the Chief Pathologist no less, she oversaw Khan doing the autopsy because he called her to attend. This is a reminder of some of her testimony;

Dr Coetzee-Khan called Abrahams to tell her that some of the injuries on Susan #Rohde body did not fit into suicide. She would then also assist because of some of the anomalies he said he found, and because it was a high profile case

Defence contends that many of Susan's injuries could have been sustained during her CPR. But Abrahams says Susan ingested blood, was alive when injured. The man doing CPR said Susan was not breathing, cold, but some warmth around her neck, so he tried CPR

She says the internal bleeding seen in Susan was not from CPR

Abrahams points at pic that she says shows evidence of blunt force trauma to the lungs before Susan #Rohde's death

The pathologist insists that Susan's injuries were not in the same place as the ligature mark found on her. All marks State saw fit conclusively to manual forceful strangulation to the neck. The ligature was partial, incomplete, put on after death

 

[Tortoise]

Thompson said the position of her stool, urine didn't add up. Defence warns that his evidence sounds like that of expert.

Here is another quote from his testimony:


"I was crying and my tears were splashing on her naked breasts." He testified about how he tried to resuscitate the naked corpse of Rohde's wife, Susan, in a bathroom at Spier wine estate.

There was also "a small stool" lying next to her hip and a pool of urine. "I had read many times that when a person dies they release their bowels and urinate. "If she hanged herself on the back of the door I would have thought her stool and urine would be at the door," he said.

South Africa - Susan Rohde, 47, murdered, Stellenbosch, 24 July, 2016

 

[Tortoise]

From Perumal's evidence in chief today:

"He found bruises on her tongue, fractures on the sternum, left and right ribs, and some hemorrhaging with the right ribs, which indicated blood circulation at the time of injury.

"Using a marker on a female mannequin, Perumal indicated the ligature marks he had found on the neck, and said the most probable point of suspension was towards the right ear, where a knot would have been."

Rohde’s pathologist challenges smothering, physical altercation findings

The second paragraph, mentioning a point of suspension, even contradicts Rohde's evidence that the cord was very tight around her neck.

 

[Tortoise]

I've just been reading through Nick's trial blog and he raises something that I also meant to say when I read the tweets earlier but then completely forgot about it.

Perumal testified (Rohde trial) that he retrieved the bullet casing from the toilet bowl in the case of Oscar Pistorius. In the OP trial Wollie Wolmarans testified that he removed the bullet casing from the toilet bowl. This is just too much to have two experts testifying in separate trials that they were responsible for the same discovery. I have to say that I tend to believe it was WW the ballistics 'expert' as opposed to RP the pathologist, since we know WW was at the OP crime scene doing the ballistics testing, and I'm not liking the implications of that one little bit. WW doesn't even say that RP was there with him at the time.

Wollie Wolmarans testimony : Start at 2:02:28

"On 18th February 2013 at 21:44 I removed a fragment of a bullet found in the main bathroom toilet bowl."

Reggie Perumal testimony : Start at 46:35

"When I went to the house I could immediately tell that there was a spent projectile sitting in the toilet bowl. And that was retrieved by me. Even though the police had the scene for five days."

 

[JudgeJudi]

Reggie Perumal testimony : Start at 46:35

"When I went to the house I could immediately tell that there was a spent projectile sitting in the toilet bowl. And that was retrieved by me. Even though the police had the scene for five days."

Reggie Perumal didn’t testify in the Pistorius trial but was present when Gert Saaymans, the State pathologist, conducted Reeva’s autopsy.

“A star pathologist hired by Oscar Pistorius told AFP on Thursday he will not testify at the athlete's murder trial, another blow for his defence after a week of savage cross-examination.

Private forensic pathologist Reggie Perumal - who joined Pistorius's hand-picked team soon after Reeva Steenkamp was killed on Valentine's Day morning 2013 - will not take the stand, amid suggestions his post-mortem findings support key parts of the prosecution's case”

https://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/Oscar_Pistorius/Top-pathologist-hired-by-Oscar-wont-testify-report-20140417
See also
https://mg.co.za/article/2014-04-17-oscar-trial-defence-pathologist-wont-testify

Mr Perumal also assessed the crime scene. It was he who, after seeing a mark on the toilet wall, realised that a spent bullet was in the toilet bowl and suggested it be retrieved.

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/world/csi-toilet-door-key-to-oscar-pistorius-defence-as-pathologist-warns-against-injustice/news-story/c234f592d2253c368351df01ed7cc39f

“Roux also said defence experts had recovered a bullet and fragments from the toilet bowl that police missed. Mangena said he was aware of that”.

Perumal found it, Wolmarans retrieved it.

 

[tmar]

From memory, Perumal stated he was not a 'histological expert'.
Therefore he hasn't the expertise in discussing the 'histopathology of tissues'.
For his conclusions he would need to consult with such an expert.
The result of 'no pathology associated with the hyoid bone', besides the Haematoma,
must be made by a Histopathologist.
I would imagine this to be the case and not Perumal's conclusion as
he did state the bone was involved in extensive testing.

 

[Tortoise]

Reggie Perumal didn’t testify in the Pistorius trial but was present when Gert Saaymans, the State pathologist, conducted Reeva’s autopsy.

“A star pathologist hired by Oscar Pistorius told AFP on Thursday he will not testify at the athlete's murder trial, another blow for his defence after a week of savage cross-examination.

Private forensic pathologist Reggie Perumal - who joined Pistorius's hand-picked team soon after Reeva Steenkamp was killed on Valentine's Day morning 2013 - will not take the stand, amid suggestions his post-mortem findings support key parts of the prosecution's case”

https://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/Oscar_Pistorius/Top-pathologist-hired-by-Oscar-wont-testify-report-20140417
See also
https://mg.co.za/article/2014-04-17-oscar-trial-defence-pathologist-wont-testify

Mr Perumal also assessed the crime scene. It was he who, after seeing a mark on the toilet wall, realised that a spent bullet was in the toilet bowl and suggested it be retrieved.

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/world/csi-toilet-door-key-to-oscar-pistorius-defence-as-pathologist-warns-against-injustice/news-story/c234f592d2253c368351df01ed7cc39f

“Roux also said defence experts had recovered a bullet and fragments from the toilet bowl that police missed. Mangena said he was aware of that”.

Perumal found it, Wolmarans retrieved it.

That may be but Perumal testified in the Rohde trial he retrieved it.