South Hadley,MA Phoebe Prince 15 kills self over bullying #2

[OrdinaryLife]

Right, suicide is just an elephant in the room.

I'm sorry, but do you understand the point that the reason LE and the DA are doing this is because Ms Prince was *bullied* to the point of suicide?

Where's the "elephant"?

 

[jjenny]

I'm sorry, but do you understand the point that the reason LE and the DA are doing this is because Ms Prince was *bullied* to the point of suicide?

Where's the "elephant"?

I guess we can go on and on and circles but I was responding to a post which stated that suicide did not play into the charges.

 

[MaureenN]

I'm sorry, but do you understand the point that the reason LE and the DA are doing this is because Ms Prince was *bullied* to the point of suicide?

Where's the "elephant"?

I don't know that I agree. Or, maybe it's just a matter of semantics.

From what I've read of the charges, they don't accuse the defendants of causing her death. They use the suicide as a means to show the extent of the effect that their harassment had on the victim. But, the charges themselves and any potential punishment are not 'murder' or 'caused death'.

Even without the suicide, criminal harassment is illegal. Civil rights violations are illegal. Stalking is illegal. And, those are the things that they are being charged with.

 

[rsorcha]

I don't know that I agree. Or, maybe it's just a matter of semantics.

From what I've read of the charges, they don't accuse the defendants of causing her death. They use the suicide as a means to show the extent of the effect that their harassment had on the victim. But, the charges themselves and any potential punishment are not 'murder' or 'caused death'.

Even without the suicide, criminal harassment is illegal. Civil rights violations are illegal. Stalking is illegal. And, those are the things that they are being charged with.

So would her suicide then be considered evidence? Or will it not even be mentioned at the trial?

 

[OrdinaryLife]

I don't know that I agree. Or, maybe it's just a matter of semantics.

From what I've read of the charges, they don't accuse the defendants of causing her death. They use the suicide as a means to show the extent of the effect that their harassment had on the victim. But, the charges themselves and any potential punishment are not 'murder' or 'caused death'.

Even without the suicide, criminal harassment is illegal. Civil rights violations are illegal. Stalking is illegal. And, those are the things that they are being charged with.

Perhaps the word, "semantics", covers it. The point of all these charges against this group is due to the bullying behaviour. Not just calling someone names, but the verbal/physical abuse that Ms Prince endured and where it led. No, they will not be charged for her suicide, but they will for their severe abusive behaviour. I do not see the elephant in the room. Frankly, when it is put that way, I find it demeans the actions of others that caused Ms Prince to believe there was no way out. She was pushed over the edge. I do not think it should be made smaller in such a term than it is. But, that is my opinion.

 

[Paladine]

So would her suicide then be considered evidence? Or will it not even be mentioned at the trial?

It's in the statement of facts, so I assume they intend to present evidence relating to it. Isn't the bodily harm the suicide? Anyone else have any thoughts on this?

 

[AndyRyan]

http://twitpic.com/113nq6
I think this is a new one I haven't seen it on any other sites..

 

[AndyRyan]

It's in the statement of facts, so I assume they intend to present evidence relating to it. Isn't the bodily harm the suicide? Anyone else have any thoughts on this?

My thoughts would be that they have enough evidence to prosecute with witness statements etc. (not sure this would be admissible, defence would have argument that it is not relevant to charges and could be related to other factors)and that maybe they will only refer to the suicide when/if they convict for, sentencing purposes i.e. victim impact .

Again def no expert just my opinion.

 

[Paladine]

My thoughts would be that they have enough evidence to prosecute with witness statements etc. (not sure this would be admissible, defence would have argument that it is not relevant to charges and could be related to other factors)and that maybe they will only refer to the suicide when/if they convict for, sentencing purposes i.e. victim impact .

Again def no expert just my opinion.

Thanks, Andy, you make some very good points. Can you imagine the victim impact portion? Whoa.

 

[AndyRyan]

http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-431115

Just came across this...

 

[jjenny]

I don't think even DA has made some of these allegations.

 

[AndyRyan]

It will probably be taken down once it has been vetted

 

[Cyan]

Ive been commenting on that story on CNN off and on all day. I mentioned how I was bullied when I was younger and hit on my previous post earlier that the majority of those bullied don't commit suicide.

After reading some of the responses that adults have posted to that, it's plain to see why children act this way.

 

[thebear14]

http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-431115

Just came across this...

thank you for that - very interesting read.

 

[Laurence]

This is something I've been wondering too. What is is about that last day or week that made them really turn up the heat

Could it be that they were intent on keeping her from going to that dance? There was that supposed "friend" of Phoebe's that made an insult and threat ~4 days before. Wasn't that threat about how Phoebe would get it if she tried to get with her man at the dance (I may have managed what I am remembering badly).

It just struck me that an increase in intensity like this may have been aimed at scaring her away from the dance.

 

[jjenny]

Ive been commenting on that story on CNN off and on all day. I mentioned how I was bullied when I was younger and hit on my previous post earlier that the majority of those bullied don't commit suicide.

After reading some of the responses that adults have posted to that, it's plain to see why children act this way.

I think you hit the nail on the head.

 

[thebear14]

Noticed on one of her "friends" formsprings that she blames Kayla for Sean's involvement saying something along the lines that when people are in relationships they sometimes act out of character for that person because they are blinded, please note these were not exact words but she has taken down her formspring since yesterday so I cannot copy and paste.
I think the questions were getting a little too difficult ( I have a feeling that Sauerkraut may have been behind those questions).
Also a few days ago I did come across a photo link of her which was taken by the same friend, will try to find link.

I noticed that too. I had screen capped a lot of what she had said about Phoebe but didn't get the last few questions. She also said that she didn't know about Sean's involvement in the library or something to that effect.

I have seen her twitter and she previously deleted her formspring then ended up bringing it back so it may pop back up eventually. We'll just have to keep a look out.

 

[AndyRyan]

I haven't seen any documents relating to Sean and Austen maybe there is more reference in those?

 

[jjenny]

Could it be that they were intent on keeping her from going to that dance? There was that supposed "friend" of Phoebe's that made an insult and threat ~4 days before. Wasn't that threat about how Phoebe would get it if she tried to get with her man at the dance (I may have managed what I am remembering badly).

It just struck me that an increase in intensity like this may have been aimed at scaring her away from the dance.

But the boy had already invited her to the dance, I didn't see any reports that there were any objections to that.

 

[Laurence]

http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-431115

Just came across this...

That sounds kind of out there, especially the part where the author says she was pressured into sex to stop the bullying...

I don't buy some random person on the 'net having info like that and it not spreading like crazy.