South Hadley,MA Phoebe Prince 15 kills self over bullying #2

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  • #521
WOAH!!!!! I never noticed that, and had looked I thought very CLOSELY at that photo.

I think you solved this P!!!!!!!!

and I think I can't avoid concluding that I am not very observant.

That TOTALLY looks like a Stairwell. Its dark in there.

I feel very positively that you have solved this mystery.

I think this is where she was found because the OUTSIDE stairs would appear to lead just up to an enclosed porch area whereas this......?

I'd think would lead directly into the upper floor apt. so naturally one would use THIS to get in the apt.
Good to have you be the one to celebrate this with me! Lol...seems others don't appreciate the stairwell mystery as much as you and I! I felt the same way as you reacted when I posted...and then no one responded. :(

Might be a stairwell, looks promising, to me...and entry to that door seems isolated. Not within view of many.

Night...now, I AM leaving...:)
 
  • #522
Opinion piece dated today (4/12/10) in which the author claims that the bullying in this case and others is not a crime..
http://www.postbulletin.com/newsmanager/templates/localnews_story.asp?z=12&a=447192
For example:
I wonder if this person read the charge sheet we've seen for the three younger ones.

Thats a good article, realistic.

I fail to see what it is about the charge sheet that seems so "grave", I found it to be quite the opposite (precisely what one might expect a rection fro teenage girl to be to such a situation) and unless I see something far worse in the docs on the other 3, for example: altering images of Phoebe via Image editing software to create very sexually graphic images of Phoebe and then posting those online and/or some physical assaults....

much like this article alludes to, I would not anticipate a successful prosecution here...even, after reading this article, on the rape charges and I expected those to have the best chance of resulting in punishment.

In no way am I defending these kid's actions and/or trying to cast blame on Phoebe. I am just saying that I did not find the charge sheet to be as damning as you and others seem to have found it.


This, from the article is key IMO: "The bullying, Scheibel said, "far exceeded the limits of normal teenage relationship-related quarrels."

How does she know — and do we routinely want prosecutors making these calls? Slate's Emily Bazelon reported that among South Hadley students, "the prevailing sentiment was that, yes, Phoebe had been mistreated but not in some unprecedented way. 'A lot of it was normal girl drama,' one girl told me. 'If you want to label it bullying, then I've bullied girls and girls have bullied me. ... It was one of the worst things I've heard of some girls doing to another girl. But it wouldn't have hurt most people that much.
'"


I have no great and special insight to why Phoebe did what she did, I've only stated what seems the most reasonable explanation....to me.

I wish that she hadn't taken her life because, as someone else mentioned on the Boston Herald website: whatever it was would have proved to be just a blip on the landscape of her life.

She'd be back home in Ireland right now (they had planned all along to return in springtime) and she was 14 for chrissakes....early 15 at best....

wtf she is supposed to know everything about living, make no errors, be perfect and make no mistakes.

and its far from established that she even DID make mistakes.....

Its said that bullying from Kayla and Ashley began almost immediately, in Sept. when Phoebe got positive attention from teachers for turning her homework in on time and participating in class...(naturally, this as unacceptable to Kayla and Ashley)

Maybe Sean extorts Phoebe with "If I do YOU a favor and stop the bullying...will you do ME a favor...... ;) ????"

I mean the girl was HOT, exceptional body for her age and that accent????

easy to see how his "judgment " might have gotten eclipsed by lust....

but still, no one is grasping the importance of "why did Sean become angry enough with Phoebe to participate in the bullying"

which is why one of ya'll need to go infiltrate the "Support Seam Mulveyhill" facebook group, they'd know what the deal was on that.

Infiltrate it....such as has been done before wherein undercover agent posed as biker to get into Hell's Angels.

But, like, 453288564 times less dangerous. :truce:
 
  • #523

What the frick does ETA mean?!? :)

Google thinks it means "Estimated Time of Arrival" which all I gotta say to damn illiterate-🤬🤬🤬 GOOGLE is that would be "EToA" as there is a "o word" in there.

And as to your suspicion. I should neither confirm nor deny. Thats what I should do but it'd prolly be pointless to do that.

You seem to have fairly well honed web sleuthing skills......

theres a forum thats about that, you'd prolly like it.

hold on I'll find a link.....
 
  • #524
ETA = 'Edited to Add' in some cases

I'm wondering if you have any indication that any of this was out of character at all for Mulveyhill. Do you have any links to info showing, conclusively, what he was like before this?

Because, even the 'before' boy in your scenarios doesn't sound like someone who I'd be proud for my son to be when he gets older. Your 'before' boy either took advantage of a girl who was being bullied, in order to get sex with her. Or, he entered into a consensual relationship with a girl and then, when she chose not to have sex with him any longer, he didn't respectfully walk away, but, instead, engaged in a campaign of harassment against her.
 
  • #525
What the frick does ETA mean?!? :)

Google thinks it means "Estimated Time of Arrival" which all I gotta say to damn illiterate-🤬🤬🤬 GOOGLE is that would be "EToA" as there is a "o word" in there.

And as to your suspicion. I should neither confirm nor deny. Thats what I should do but it'd prolly be pointless to do that.

You seem to have fairly well honed web sleuthing skills......

theres a forum thats about that, you'd prolly like it.

hold on I'll find a link.....

Hey, Bud...:) Where's my link? ;) I like your posts. They are full of personality. Thanks for the kind words. You need not confirm or deny, it's all good. :)
 
  • #526
Dr. Phail...a friendly word of advice...add a BIG IMO (in my opinion) to your posts that aren't capable of being proved factual, at this point.
 
  • #527
  • #528
School officials slammed in bullying case
Tuesday, April 13, 2010
By SANDRA E. CONSTANTINE
Among the allegations is that the 15-year-old Prince went to an administrator before her Jan. 14 suicide by hanging and asked permission to go home because she was afraid of being beat up by bullies.

That and other details in the complaint describing bullying in the classroom, in the hallways, in the cafeteria, in the school library and on the way home have stoked the fires of Gelinas and other School Department critics calling for resignations.

Despite Prince's concerns, the complaint filed by Scheibel Thursday states, she was told her she had to stay in school.

"It is typical of what was happening," Gelinas said. "The truth is just going to keep coming out."
http://www.masslive.com/springfield/republican/index.ssf?/base/news-27/127114661141640.xml&coll=1
 
  • #529
Even if that did happen, the laugh could be a defense mechanism and not a sign he was happy about it. Some people laugh when they are not happy, or something went wrong. I don't know why people assume that if someone was laughing he was happy about it, maybe just the opposite.

My husband uses it as a defense mechanism, he will smile and even laugh if confronted. It's how I know when he's nervous about something.
 
  • #530
"Two So-Called Sl*ts, Two Deaths, Only One Uproar"

"In recent months, two high school girls were relentlessly harassed as "sl*ts" by their peers in school and committed suicide as a result -- Hope Witsell in rural Florida and now Phoebe Prince in South Hadley, Massachusetts. The Prince case has led to criminal charges and tremendous international media attention."
" Yet at the same time, I am curious to know: why has Prince's death elicited a far stronger reaction than Witsell's? Massachusetts Governor Deval Patrick has even stepped in, berating school officials for not protecting Prince. Meanwhile, to date no one has so strongly pointed a finger at school administrators at Witsell's school, nor have there been criminal charges brought in her case.

This doesn't make sense. Both girls were victimized similarly. Both deaths are tragic. Both girls deserve the same outcry of anger and horror. Why does Prince's suicide resonate so much more than Witsell's?"

I've never heard of Hope Witsell, thought I'd share in case anyone cares to look further into this...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/leora-tanenbaum/two-so-called-🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬-two-d_b_533425.html
 
  • #531
I think I missed your post about the possible other set of stairs. I'm looking at that photo again to see if I'm seeing what you are seeing.
 
  • #532
"Two So-Called Sl*ts, Two Deaths, Only One Uproar"



I've never heard of Hope Witsell, thought I'd share in case anyone cares to look further into this...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/leora-tanenbaum/two-so-called-🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬-two-d_b_533425.html

I read a little bit about this the other day.. and I tend to agree with that author... I can't say that I'd heard about this until the last week or so.

*sigh*

These poor girls. :(
Why are some people just so intent on making others miserable? :(
 
  • #533
"Two So-Called Sl*ts, Two Deaths, Only One Uproar"



I've never heard of Hope Witsell, thought I'd share in case anyone cares to look further into this...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/leora-tanenbaum/two-so-called-🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬-two-d_b_533425.html

I think it's just like how people view animal cruelty. Animals don't understand why you are beating them to dog fight or whatever happens. I'm using dogs as an example. Phoebe wasn't from this country so her first impression was this. That all Americans are this way. I say this because at 30 I have no idea what it's like in Ireland. But I'm older and wiser and think if I were to move there and was bullied like this that no all people are like that. Imagine being very loved in your country by everyone and having different cultural background and coming here to this.

As for Hope Witsell I'm not sure. Even like the Alexis girl I posted a few pages back. I don't know why some people get more press than others. But in this case my gut says because she was from Ireland.
 
  • #534
I think it's just like how people view animal cruelty. Animals don't understand why you are beating them to dog fight or whatever happens. I'm using dogs as an example. Phoebe wasn't from this country so her first impression was this. That all Americans are this way. I say this because at 30 I have no idea what it's like in Ireland. But I'm older and wiser and think if I were to move there and was bullied like this that no all people are like that. Imagine being very loved in your country by everyone and having different cultural background and coming here to this.

As for Hope Witsell I'm not sure. Even like the Alexis girl I posted a few pages back. I don't know why some people get more press than others. But in this case my gut says because she was from Ireland.

Yes. I can only speak for myself, her heritage, I must admit, drew me in. There are many Irish in America and Canada...I think it touched many of us in the gut. And the slurs against her ancestry...it reminded me of the prejudice felt by the Irish many decades ago. THAT made my blood boil...

But I will spend time reading some background on Alexis and Hope...wish there were more hours in a day. ;)
 
  • #535
"Two So-Called Sl*ts, Two Deaths, Only One Uproar"



I've never heard of Hope Witsell, thought I'd share in case anyone cares to look further into this...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/leora-tanenbaum/two-so-called-🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬-two-d_b_533425.html


great article. I especially like this quote
As we watch the criminal case against Prince's harassers unfold, let us remember that no girl, ever, no matter what she has done sexually, no matter what photos she has stupidly forwarded, deserves to be called a "🤬🤬🤬🤬." Ever.
.

I don't really care if Phoebe had "sexted", sent naked pictures of herself, or slept with the entire football team. These kids went entirely way too far. Some girls, whether they have or haven't done anything sexually, will be called 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬 and there will be rumors and whatnot about them. That totally sucks and I don't agree with it, but it happens. What these girls did went way beyond a little name-calling behind the back (which again, don't agree with and shouldn't be condoned). It was a full on systematic onslaught against her. As Paladine mentioned a few threads back, sexual shaming. No matter what Phoebe did or didn't do, that doesn't matter. There was no reason for the harassment against her, and she should have been protected.

As to why Phoebe's case is getting more attention - I don't really know. It stands out more because she was from Ireland, of course. I think also the fact that charges are being brought. I remember hearing about this case when it first came out in late January or early February then it died down a bit. I wasn't following the case at the time so as an average person not overly interested in the case, it died down. Once the charges were brought it heated up, and that's when I began following it more intensely. I think also the fact that many are blaming the school for not handling the situation better is another reason why this case is more popular. Unfortunately, since the other girl sent a naked picture of herself, she's going to be looked down on more and there's going to be more of a "she brought in on herself" thing, as the article states. Again, don't agree with that position at all. It's an unfortunate, beyond humiliating thing to happen to a 13 year old girl and sadly it's going to become more common. It's easy to say that oh, I would never do that at 13 years old, but in reality you don't know. Whether she felt pressured to do it the first time or whether she wanted to I don't know but it's just sad either way.

Kids this age are very sexually curious, everything turns into sex. Every joke, every picture, every conversation. Some act on it and some don't. Those who do shouldn't be subject to harassment so severe they feel there's no way out of it and they cut their lives short - it's just very tragic.

JMO! ;)
 
  • #536
Yes. I can only speak for myself, her heritage, I must admit, drew me in. There are many Irish in America and Canada...I think it touched many of us in the gut. And the slurs against her ancestry...it reminded me of the prejudice felt by the Irish many decades ago. THAT made my blood boil...

But I will spend time reading some background on Alexis and Hope...wish there were more hours in a day. ;)

yes. I'm Italian and Irish. I identify more with the Italian side of my family but still...it baffles my mind. I remember in high school when we would have foreign exchange students, I loved it! I always befriended them, always wanted to know more about their culture. When other kids would call them weird or talk behind their backs I always stood up for them. I would be their partners in gym class and sit next to them in other classes. If Phoebe had been in my class, I'm positive I would have befriended her. I was definitely not a popular kid either so I had no reason to worry about my reputation or getting kicked out of the cool lunch table or whatever ;) She just really sounds like someone I would have wanted to get to know to know at that age.

The fact that they made slurs against where she was from is so ridiculous, especially when you consider their last names. duh. :waitasec:
 
  • #537
:woohoo:
Thats a good article, realistic.

I fail to see what it is about the charge sheet that seems so "grave", I found it to be quite the opposite (precisely what one might expect a rection fro teenage girl to be to such a situation) and unless I see something far worse in the docs on the other 3, for example: altering images of Phoebe via Image editing software to create very sexually graphic images of Phoebe and then posting those online and/or some physical assaults....

much like this article alludes to, I would not anticipate a successful prosecution here...even, after reading this article, on the rape charges and I expected those to have the best chance of resulting in punishment.

In no way am I defending these kid's actions and/or trying to cast blame on Phoebe. I am just saying that I did not find the charge sheet to be as damning as you and others seem to have found it.


This, from the article is key IMO: "The bullying, Scheibel said, "far exceeded the limits of normal teenage relationship-related quarrels."

How does she know — and do we routinely want prosecutors making these calls? Slate's Emily Bazelon reported that among South Hadley students, "the prevailing sentiment was that, yes, Phoebe had been mistreated but not in some unprecedented way. 'A lot of it was normal girl drama,' one girl told me. 'If you want to label it bullying, then I've bullied girls and girls have bullied me. ... It was one of the worst things I've heard of some girls doing to another girl. But it wouldn't have hurt most people that much.
'"


I have no great and special insight to why Phoebe did what she did, I've only stated what seems the most reasonable explanation....to me.

I wish that she hadn't taken her life because, as someone else mentioned on the Boston Herald website: whatever it was would have proved to be just a blip on the landscape of her life.

She'd be back home in Ireland right now (they had planned all along to return in springtime) and she was 14 for chrissakes....early 15 at best....

wtf she is supposed to know everything about living, make no errors, be perfect and make no mistakes.

and its far from established that she even DID make mistakes.....

Its said that bullying from Kayla and Ashley began almost immediately, in Sept. when Phoebe got positive attention from teachers for turning her homework in on time and participating in class...(naturally, this as unacceptable to Kayla and Ashley)

Maybe Sean extorts Phoebe with "If I do YOU a favor and stop the bullying...will you do ME a favor...... ;) ????"

I mean the girl was HOT, exceptional body for her age and that accent????

easy to see how his "judgment " might have gotten eclipsed by lust....

but still, no one is grasping the importance of "why did Sean become angry enough with Phoebe to participate in the bullying"

which is why one of ya'll need to go infiltrate the "Support Seam Mulveyhill" facebook group, they'd know what the deal was on that.

Infiltrate it....such as has been done before wherein undercover agent posed as biker to get into Hell's Angels.

But, like, 453288564 times less dangerous. :truce:

Already in the Support Sean Mulveyhill fb page..it's boring. Nothing but a bunch of we love and support you and maybe like 30 posts. Nothing sheds light on anything. Sean doesn't post there and no one is talking about it. Just keep saying things aren't what they seem.
 
  • #538
There are so many Narey families in MA. Springfield especially. One of the SM supporters has a few on FB as friends.
 
  • #539
Yes. I can only speak for myself, her heritage, I must admit, drew me in. There are many Irish in America and Canada...I think it touched many of us in the gut. And the slurs against her ancestry...it reminded me of the prejudice felt by the Irish many decades ago. THAT made my blood boil...

But I will spend time reading some background on Alexis and Hope...wish there were more hours in a day. ;)

Please start threads on them if you can. Remember, we have a whole bullying forum:)
 
  • #540
"Two So-Called Sl*ts, Two Deaths, Only One Uproar"



I've never heard of Hope Witsell, thought I'd share in case anyone cares to look further into this...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/leora-tanenbaum/two-so-called-🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬-two-d_b_533425.html


I think that the reason Phoebe's case has received so much attention is a result of the disgusting comments made on her facebook memorial page after her death and the apparent lack of remorse by her tormentors at the Cotillion dance two days later. I would imagine that this shocked people who were then even more enraged by these kids hardness and cruelty. Also Darby O'Brien, who works in PR and advertising, got involved and obviously knew who to talk to i.e. Kevin Cullen who wrote some great articles on it. Maybe the schools handling of its investigation (by not expelling the students and what not) added fuel to the fire in the publics eyes.
 
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