South Hadley,MA Phoebe Prince 15 kills self over bullying

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I snipped the link. This page makes me feel mixed emotions. On one hand it's nice to see that there are a number of 'fans', giving this person a 'taste of his own medicine' BUT I also feel two wrongs don't make a right. I hope all of these 'fans' are able to find a better way of working through these emotions and not continue the bullying. KWIM?

I feel the same way. If any of the allegations are true, I truly hope justice is served; however, I don't think it's right to wish physical violence on him. You can't fight hate with hate.
 
I wasn't able to post much today, but I followed the arraignment on the news. I hate to say this, but did anyone else find it a bit ... anticlimactic? I wonder if we'll get more information on Thursday when the rest of the alleged bullies are arraigned. I've heard that Narey, Mulveyhill, and Renaud are being booked on Friday as well, so maybe we'll hear more then. I don't think we'll hear many details until the trial, but I don't mind scraps here and there. :)
 
According to this article, Phoebe had to deal with bullying back in Ireland. It seems her aunt was concerned it could happen again, which I can understand. As a new student from a foreign country, she would certainly draw lots of attention from her classmates, and whenever that's the case, the risk of bullying can increase, especially if there are jealousy issues involved.

Anyway, here's an excerpt from the article:

Months before Prince’s tragic Jan. 14 suicide and prior to her enrollment, her aunt, Eileen Moore, also urged the official to look out for her niece, said Darby O’Brien, a friend of the Prince family.

“She told him Phoebe had been bullied over there and was susceptible to bullying - nowhere near to this degree,” O’Brien said.
 
Yes, I have worked as a special services professional in at least a dozen different schools. These have included private upperclass schools and the lowest of low income schools in two different states and four different cities. NEVER, ever, have I seen this type of behavior allowed or condoned. The FIRST time that someone lays a hand on another student or any type of projectile weapon is used to attack another student--immediate suspension has been enforced. A second incident REQUIRED an extended term of suspension, and depending on the history of their prior behavior, they could be transferred into an alternative school, placed on home schooling or expelled from that school jurisdiction completely. There are processes of hearings that such students are allowed, so there is a way to review any decisions made regarding this, thus allowing them more than a fair turn to state their case.

FWIW...I am not saying that this eliminated all bullying behaviors....but knowing that there WERE consequences and that they would be enforced did work! The victim feels that they have recourse and that their complaints will be heard....that alone can prevent an outcome like this one.


ALSO, none of those schools ever had a suicide or even an on-campus injury due to bullying.

Exactly! Zero Tolerance. Zero, to me, means that at the first instance you have a consequence. If there is a second instance there is an almost intolerable consequence ( for young adults and teens this shouldn't be too hard to find one : ) I would bet every dollar in my bank account that where Phoebe was concerned adults in the school were not holding these bullies accountable.

I read that on the last day Phoebe had a beverage can thrown at her (from one of the girls car) while walking home from school. Now that tells me right there that nothing was being done to punish these kids. Ever take a teen's drivers license away for a month? Their life ends! Maybe if the parents of these bullies were picking them up at school or if they were being supervised on a bus a beverage can wouldn't have been thrown. I know, it's a small piece of what "might" have been done, but in my opinion no-one was doing anything and they should have been.
 
Exactly! Zero Tolerance. Zero, to me, means that at the first instance you have a consequence. If there is a second instance there is an almost intolerable consequence ( for young adults and teens this shouldn't be too hard to find one : ) I would bet every dollar in my bank account that where Phoebe was concerned adults in the school were not holding these bullies accountable.

I read that on the last day Phoebe had a beverage can thrown at her (from one of the girls car) while walking home from school. Now that tells me right there that nothing was being done to punish these kids. Ever take a teen's drivers license away for a month? Their life ends! Maybe if the parents of these bullies were picking them up at school or if they were being supervised on a bus a beverage can wouldn't have been thrown. I know, it's a small piece of what "might" have been done, but in my opinion no-one was doing anything and they should have been.

Are you serious? The fact that they were driving home tells you you something? Not every parent is able to pick up their teenage child from school, and some high schools (I presume many) don't have buses that drive teenagers to and from school.
 
Are you serious? The fact that they were driving home tells you you something? Not every parent is able to pick up their teenage child from school, and some high schools (I presume many) don't have buses that drive teenagers to and from school.


Of course I am serious. Yes, the fact that they were driving home tells me something, it tells me that kids who throw drinks out of a car at other kids shouldn't be driving back and forth to school. There is a bus for kids who can't be trusted unsupervised, and if there isn't let them walk....Phoebe was walking. Since they couldn't control their actions maybe they should have been on the bus with an adult who would have made certain they weren't tossing cans out a window.

Driving to school is a privilege and so is having a drivers license. I understand parents have to work, but in my opinion a parents first priority is making absolutely certain their children are turning into responsible adults. Throwing a beverage container out of a moving vehicle is not a responsible action. I refuse to make excuses for irresponsible behaviors that end in a child's death.
 
Of course I am serious. Yes, the fact that they were driving home tells me something, it tells me that kids who throw drinks out of a car at other kids shouldn't be driving back and forth to school. There is a bus for kids who can't be trusted unsupervised, and if there isn't let them walk....Phoebe was walking. Since they couldn't control their actions maybe they should have been on the bus with an adult who would have made certain they weren't tossing cans out a window.

Driving to school is a privilege and so is having a drivers license. I understand parents have to work, but in my opinion a parents first priority is making absolutely certain their children are turning into responsible adults. Throwing a beverage container out of a moving vehicle is not a responsible action. I refuse to make excuses for irresponsible behaviors that end in a child's death.
There are no indication that any can throwing had occurred previously to the alleged episode right before the suicide. How do you propose parents could have predicted the alleged can throwing would occur? If they were accused of regularly throwing cans your logic might make sense but this was not the case.
 
There are no indication that any can throwing had occurred previously to the alleged episode right before the suicide. How do you propose parents could have predicted the alleged can throwing would occur? If they were accused of regularly throwing cans your logic might make sense but this was not the case.

My initial reply was to a comment by another poster about consequences, in this case it is clear to me that there were no consequences for these bullies actions as they went on for a period of months. The school could have taken away their privilege to park or drive to school...that is a great consequence in my opinion.

I don't expect you to understand my personal logic, I think I make plenty of sense. lol....and I stand by my earlier comment that I refuse to make excuses for irresponsible behavior that ends in a child's death. Throwing a beverage container out of a moving vehicle is an irresponsible action, not to mention against the law.
 
As of right now, or while this was all taking place? Either way, that's nothing.

At all, ever as a result of Phoebe's case, only 1 student was suspended for 1 day. THAT'S what O'Brien said last night. That's the only consequence that has been doled out, O'Brien said...

IMO> my money is on Flannery Mullins...I think it was her, after she went into the classroom and yelled in on the 7th of Jan...<IMO
 
According to this article, Phoebe had to deal with bullying back in Ireland. It seems her aunt was concerned it could happen again, which I can understand. As a new student from a foreign country, she would certainly draw lots of attention from her classmates, and whenever that's the case, the risk of bullying can increase, especially if there are jealousy issues involved.

Anyway, here's an excerpt from the article:

and another excerpt...
"Attorney Bradley Henry said the case might hinge on whether school officials gave Prince’s family assurances of her safety. “The more specific the assurance that Phoebe would be safe, the more likely it is that the administrators can be held liable,” Henry said."
Does anyone else remember reports of Phoebes Mom contacting the school and asking about the "gang of girls"...if her Daughter was safe? I recall the response was "don't worry"...it was O'Brien that said it, I think. If anyone has a link or better memory, please post...save me a search...lol...;)

"Henry said the extent of torment inflicted on Prince - coupled with District Attorney Elizabeth D. Scheibel’s claim that the harassment was common knowledge within the school - should have been enough to charge school officials with failure to report hazing, crime that carries up to a $1,000 fine
 
This article raised more questions for Supt Sayers IMO. Here , Phoebe's Mother refutes his assertion that the family did not alert school officials.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/02/us/02bully.html?pagewanted=1


"Darby O&#8217;Brien, a friend of the Prince family, said Thursday that Ms. Prince&#8217;s parents had told him that they had twice tried to alert the school and protect their daughter. Anne Prince, the mother, told him that in one case she had contacted a school official in November asking &#8220;whether this gang of girls was a threat to her daughter,&#8221; and was told not to worry. The mother said she had contacted the school again in the first week of January as the taunting continued, Mr. O&#8217;Brien said."

Okay, Mary...my deepest apologies for butchering your post...;) I post it for the link...
 
jjenny said:
Are you serious? The fact that they were driving home tells you you something? Not every parent is able to pick up their teenage child from school, and some high schools (I presume many) don't have buses that drive teenagers to and from school.


There are no indication that any can throwing had occurred previously to the alleged episode right before the suicide. How do you propose parents could have predicted the alleged can throwing would occur? If they were accused of regularly throwing cans your logic might make sense but this was not the case.
Hi JJenny, interesting points.
I would guess that the parents know exactly what kind of kids they have. I raised 5 sons and I knew when they were able to be trusted and when they were teens that were behaving badly and needed more supervision. IMO, kids don't just start with this kind of elevated nastiness and if we peel back the layers we will find red flags all over the place. I think the posters point was perhaps kids that are troublesome shouldn't be driving and yes it is inconvenient for the parents. But it is part of parenting to get your child to school. My 18 yo is not allowed to drive right now for being a pill. Yes, I have to drive him and yes it makes me late for work every day. But it doesn't matter, I don't trust him with a car right now and so what goes part and parcel with being as repsonsible as I can is restricting him where it hurts, which unfortunately hurts me too LOL.

Of course hindsight is 20/20 and I haven't read all the case background. Of course it is entirely possible that these were all angelic kids that gave their parents no cause to restrict them in any way and this was their first episode of bullying behavior. They may all be Eddie Haskells and not a parent around had any clue that any of them were capable of this. But I truly doubt it. JMHO of course.
 
http://www.crimevictimlaw.com/criminal/common.html#ki

According to this summary of Massachusetts laws.....the action of these "bullies" during the library incident can be charged as kidnapping, and since it has been confirmed by a faculty member as having occurred, it seems that it SHOULD be part of the charges. IMO
 

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http://www.crimevictimlaw.com/criminal/common.html#ki

According to this summary of Massachusetts laws.....the action of these "bullies" during the library incident can be charged as kidnapping, and since it has been confirmed by a faculty member as having occurred, it seems that it SHOULD be part of the charges. IMO

I agree. All avenues should be pursued. All crimes punished.

imo
 
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