Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #1

[Ontario Mom]

Hope this is OK Esther & Dan

The "Esther & Dan" public FB page is okay, just for everyone's FYI.

 

[Sillybilly]

<modsnip>
I'm guessing it would be against the rules to post an image off google street view but the one I have in front of me now I can even make out the darker bricks in the stonework just to the left of the top of the van that 100% confirm that is the location.

<rsbm>

Screenshot and a link from Google Street View is fine Grouse.

ETA: I now see Ontario Mom got here way ahead of me. I will go back to my couch now (or should I say "THE couch")

 

[Seni]

... 1) The person left the area of their own violation. 2) The person was abducted. 3) A mixture of 1 and 2, ie, the abductor persuaded the missing person to go with them on some pretext or other, eg, there was an urgent situation that required assistance &/or person's attendance and then, at a later stage, the willing, unsuspecting missing person finds that they have unwittingly become the victim of a kidnap... .

Respectfully quoted

There is the still the possibility of an accident.

Would be really good to use punctuation, separate paragraphs.

 

[Deleted member 277705]

the grammar (and spelling) is different to the other posts. Also different style with words missing. I hope the police noticed this too.

Yes indeed, quite often witnesses – and the boyfriend is a witness, not a suspect – give out information which they do not realise is useful or relevant to an inquiry & LE, particularly
in a missing person case, will be scrutinising in minute detail, every word, phrase, actions, tv & radio interviews given by any witnesses, to see if anything said or done can help locate the missing person.

Occupied legitimately is one thing . Witness said 'I saw someone sleeping in the back of the caravan car and I couldn't believe it,'. If true, and if that was during the period LE were working on it , that is creepy and suspicious IMO, someone laying in her bed??!

No, you got it right first time - occupied legitimately and as for someone having a rest, "perks of the job" so to speak. You seem to forget that the woman reported her observation timeously but the LE did not respond.

 

[Seni]

One of my earliest insights into missing persons was the “Black Panther” - Lesley Whittle abduction - and that didn't end well, unfortunately.

 

[Seni]

dbm

 

[Seni]

Snipped. That case will haunt us for ever.

 

[Deleted member 277705]

Respectfully quoted

There is the still the possibility of an accident.

Would be really good to use punctuation, separate paragraphs.

Yes, agreed, acknowledged and not disputed that there are still a lot of other possibilities, which after very careful, due consideration, I personally have dismissed as favouring. I tend to stick with the strongest impression that is relayed to my senses and instinct - and I am confident to rely on my own sound judgement in this respect. It works for me every time. Imagine a table full of differing options. Shuffle them up and go through them, analysing, pouring over them and dissecting, separating fact from fiction, the known from the unknown, the relevant from the irrelevant etc. Shuffle the options up again so that you are tackling them from a different order and angle and perspective, put them back on the table and go over and scrutinise them once more. Repeat the process until one option "breaks away" from the pack. That's when I stop "shuffling" and try to knock down the "break away" option, throwing everything at it to do so. If it is still standing, untouched and unscathed and shining out at me like a beacon from a lighthouse in the dark, then I am not going to ignore it. There has been a lot of talk that it will be the spring of next year before progress can be made. I am confident that this will not be the case.

 

[Deleted member 277705]

Snipped. That case will haunt us for ever.

Bear in mind, it will be less haunting if there is a happy ending.

 

[patCee]

RSBM

I agree with you that it is so important to share a route plan - but I believe Esther did follow that advice. They know precisely what her intended route was, and how long she intended to be.
"Dingley was on the Chemin de l’Impératrice (Empress Path) hiking route via Port de Venasque before heading for Porte de la Glère in the Luchon valley"
Gendarmes to scale down search for British hiker Esther Dingley in Pyrenees

She also kept in close touch with Colegate, per her What's app contact when she reached the peak safely on her first afternoon. When he did not hear from her the next day, he appears to have assumed it was because she was out of cell reception. After not hearing the day after that, he called her in as missing, and told searchers her precise plan.

It's been said that she also informed the local civil Gardi of her plan. I assume there some expectation to do that for certain hikes/areas. So the searchers were very clear about where she could be on the mountains.

 

[Kazibar]

I’m surprised that if she apprised the local Guardia of her plans, they allowed her to proceed. The border is closed. The French/Spanish border and more importantly in a way the border of Aragon. Part of that lockdown is a curfew, you can’t be out at night. She was intending to cross the border and camp out. Not I think what you are supposed to do.
I’m not commenting on whether she should have been hiking, simply on whether the police would have been ok with her plan.

if you are interested in what it’s like up there, I highly recommend the fb page of OneWoman Walks. She’s a solo woman walker who has been walking across Europe for months. She’s extremely experienced, but stopped her High Level Path walk in the Pyrenees because of both snow and COVID. She’s currently staying at a place in Luchon until the borders reopen. But her posts do give a good idea on paths and conditions.

 

[Normal Norm]

the grammar (and spelling) is different to the other posts. Also different style with words missing. I hope the police noticed this too.

The subtle linguistic differences may not be apparent to the French and Spanish police, as English isn't their first language.

 

[Normal Norm]

Unlikely hypotheses incoming ...

French and Spanish media have reported the killing of a bear in the region of the Pyrenees in which Esther has gone missing. This happened on Sunday 29th November. The bear was said to be in a "hostile state", and the Spanish hunter who shot it is claiming he did so in self defence. So ...

Was there a rogue bear in the area that could have killed Esther? The police certainly seem to have ruled it out, presumably due to lack of evidence.

Could Esther have encountered this same bear, and have been fatally injured in an attempt to avoid / escape it?

Could Esther have been killed accidentally by a hunter, who has managed to conceal her body or has managed to remove it altogether from the scene?

All three options are somewhat unlikely, but I'm struggling to work out in my own mind what I think the most likely answer to Esther's disappearance actually is.

 

[Sjm_qc]

The subtle linguistic differences may not be apparent to the French and Spanish police, as English isn't their first language.

Could the people comparing Esther’s posts from the 19th & 21st with previous ones & seeing differences that make them think she didn’t write them give me an example of which post(s) they’re comparing them with? I’m not seeing this difference and I’m curious. I work with languages and I’m usually reasonably good at spotting this sort of thing.

Secondly, I don’t underestimate French and Spanish authorities: if necessary they can and do have recourse to native speakers to verify/analyse.

Thirdly, family and/or close friends would pick up on these “differences” (and mention them, at least to the authorities) easily if in fact they are an issues.

 

[Sjm_qc]

Hello sleuthers, from your own knowledge, in cases of abduction, does anyone know of instances where the missing person has been held captive / imprisoned and later found & rescued alive ?

Yes, several. Including some very high profile cases.

ETA: I can also think of a few where a missing person turns up safe later even in cases where nothing nefarious happened but families, WSers, LE were convinced of or suspected foul play.

 

[julie HC]

I am new to this forum but have been following this story closely - so sad!
You seem to have missed the very important new information in the Daily Mail yesterday 09th December.
Apart from the comment by Jean-Marc Bordinaro the Esther and Dan’s lives were not as happy as social media suggests, he also said the following - quote:
‘An expert hiker, Antonio Bellarin, 70, has told of giving her a lift higher into the mountains to start her walk on Nov 21st, a day before she last contacted Mr Colegate. Mr Ballarin who was with his grandson said Miss Dingley suggested she was planning to go all the way to Toulouse under her own steam, possibly by catching a train’.
Whilst I have seen disparaging remarks about the Daily Mail on this forum, I don’t believe they can have made such a detailed statement up!
It gives us a lot more information. It fills the gap about what Esther did on Nov 21st. It tells us she is comfortable about accepting lifts ( not unusual especially among hikers looking to start / end a walk and I don’t read anything negative into it). But also it suggests her plans were not nearly so certain as we might have believed until now. Why Toulouse? Maybe she knows someone there.
For what it’s worth I believe it is most likely she has committed suicide or met with an unusual accident (unusual only in that the search revealed no trace).
She is an intelligent woman and if she wished to commit suicide without leaving Dan and relatives with the knowledge it was suicide then she could plan to make it look as though it could have been an accident - so we are likely to never know the truth. Certainly if there was a suicide note then we would have heard by now.
We can’t ask him but I would be very keen to know whether the last call to her father before her final walk was unusual. Was it part of a pattern of ringing him or did he regard it as out of the blue and at an unusual time. It may have been her way for saying goodbye and leaving him with a positive. No doubt the police have asked him about the call in detail.

 

[Kaykedi]

Could the people comparing Esther’s posts from the 19th & 21st with previous ones & seeing differences that make them think she didn’t write them give me an example of which post(s) they’re comparing them with? I’m not seeing this difference and I’m curious. I work with languages and I’m usually reasonably good at spotting this sort of thing.

Secondly, I don’t underestimate French and Spanish authorities: if necessary they can and do have recourse to native speakers to verify/analyse.

Thirdly, family and/or close friends would pick up on these “differences” (and mention them, at least to the authorities) easily if in fact they are an issues.

I think it's the post on Esther & Dan dated 19/11/2020 @ 18.19 that some sleuthers are referring to. The post begins with "today was a very mixed day". I hope this helps you?

 

[Sjm_qc]

I am new to this forum but have been following this story closely - so sad!
You seem to have missed the very important new information in the Daily Mail yesterday 09th December.
Apart from the comment by Jean-Marc Bordinaro the Esther and Dan’s lives were not as happy as social media suggests, he also said the following - quote:
‘An expert hiker, Antonio Bellarin, 70, has told of giving her a lift higher into the mountains to start her walk on Nov 21st, a day before she last contacted Mr Colegate. Mr Ballarin who was with his grandson said Miss Dingley suggested she was planning to go all the way to Toulouse under her own steam, possibly by catching a train’.
Whilst I have seen disparaging remarks about the Daily Mail on this forum, I don’t believe they can have made such a detailed statement up!
It gives us a lot more information. It fills the gap about what Esther did on Nov 21st. It tells us she is comfortable about accepting lifts ( not unusual especially among hikers looking to start / end a walk and I don’t read anything negative into it). But also it suggests her plans were not nearly so certain as we might have believed until now. Why Toulouse? Maybe she knows someone there.
For what it’s worth I believe it is most likely she has committed suicide or met with an unusual accident (unusual only in that the search revealed no trace).
She is an intelligent woman and if she wished to commit suicide without leaving Dan and relatives with the knowledge it was suicide then she could plan to make it look as though it could have been an accident - so we are likely to never know the truth. Certainly if there was a suicide note then we would have heard by now.
We can’t ask him but I would be very keen to know whether the last call to her father before her final walk was unusual. Was it part of a pattern of ringing him or did he regard it as out of the blue and at an unusual time. It may have been her way for saying goodbye and leaving him with a positive. No doubt the police have asked him about the call in detail.

Welcome to WS! Do you have a link to this new report? Please and thank you.

ETA: I’m looking for this myself and can’t find it in the Daily Mail? Or anywhere, in fact.

 

[Sjm_qc]

I think it's the post on Esther & Dan dated 19/11/2020 @ 18.19 that some sleuthers are referring to. The post begins with "today was a very mixed day". I hope this helps you?

Thank you, but which post are you/they comparing it to that makes you/they suspect she didn’t write that one?

 

[Kaykedi]

Thank you, but which post are you/they comparing it to that makes you/they suspect she didn’t write that one?

It's not me comparing the posts Sjm_qc. It's one or two fellow sleuthers that have noticed differences between some of her posts. I haven't read any of Esther's FB posts until today. I think I should have said I wonder IF it could be the post from 19/11/2020 as quite a few spelling mistakes, and, lack of punctuation