Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #1

[Vaccine]

I disagree that they are 'doubtful' she is there. The brutal truth is that, if she is there, she must be dead by now. The mission of any SAR organization is to rescue living people, not find dead bodies in the vast mountain wilderness. Also, the weather has gone bad and the searching will be fruitless because the ground is now covered in snow. But the search would have inevitably wound down by now anyway, SAR teams have to keep fresh to be ready to rescue the next living person in trouble.

"Chances of finding Dingley narrow as bad weather sets in". Gendarmes to scale down search for British hiker Esther Dingley in Pyrenees

This is a hard message to deliver to a desperate loved one: Hey, we're giving up, if she's out here she's dead mate, there's no hope.

There's always the possibility something else happened, and I believe it's important to keep one's mind open to all possibilities. Which means not to close the mind and focus exclusively on just one possibility, such as that the spouse murdered her. The suggestion has no basis whatever, because if a spouse did such a thing, he would be eager to promote the view that she'd had an accident.

I think we will have to agree to disagree. Here's what Dan said on BBC Radio 4 this morning:
'Over the past few days the search has been very intense in an area near where Es was walking, she had a clearly defined route, we know exactly where she was the last time she communicated with us and there’s been increasing talk among the search teams that perhaps she isn’t up there after all. Based on a number of factors, with Esther’s level of experience, the fact the weather was fantastic, these are clearly marked trails, and the depth of search that’s taken place, um, it’s increasingly become more plausible she isn’t, hasn’t had an accident on the mountain rather than the fact they simply couldn’t find her'.

And the Daily Mail headline;

Police hunting Pyrenees for missing British hiker 'are looking at other options beyond an accident and do NOT believe she is in the mountains', boyfriend reveals

And the BBC News website:
Esther Dingley: Partner says police 'looking at non-accident options'

 

[GordianKnot]

I completely agree with you. I wonder if it’s perhaps a translation issue. I think it’s most likely she had a fall and will eventually be found.

BBM:

Given her heavy SM presence, one certainly can't rule out the possibility of a selfie-related accidental fall. Just doing a basic online search using "person falls off mountain taking selfie" will lead to numerous tragic cases :

British tourist, 21, dies falling off Australian cliff while taking selfie

Officials plea for caution after another sightseer falls to death while taking photos

Man falls to death off cliff while taking pictures, more human remains found during recovery effort

The list goes on and on and on....

My main man William of Occam agrees with you.

A fall is the most likely scenario.

JMO.

 

[Satchie]

I think we will have to agree to disagree. Here's what Dan said on BBC Radio 4 this morning:
'Over the past few days the search has been very intense in an area near where Es was walking, she had a clearly defined route, we know exactly where she was the last time she communicated with us and there’s been increasing talk among the search teams that perhaps she isn’t up there after all. Based on a number of factors, with Esther’s level of experience, the fact the weather was fantastic, these are clearly marked trails, and the depth of search that’s taken place, um, it’s increasingly become more plausible she isn’t, hasn’t had an accident on the mountain rather than the fact they simply couldn’t find her'.

And the Daily Mail headline;

Police hunting Pyrenees for missing British hiker 'are looking at other options beyond an accident and do NOT believe she is in the mountains', boyfriend reveals

And the BBC News website:
Esther Dingley: Partner says police 'looking at non-accident options'

Yes, we certainly can disagree. My objection to the quotes you've cited is that they all come through the partner: he is telling those news outlets his interpretation of what police really think. My argument is that a desperate, grief-stricken spouse is not an impartial witness to what police really think, he's in a desperate, grief stricken state of mind. Plus police don't really share their private opinions, they speak in very neutral terms that can easily be misinterpreted by someone who is desperate and grief stricken.

An equivalent example is how people deal with a diagnosis of a potentially deadly disease, in themselves or a loved one. Many people go into denial, refusing to acknowledge it. Or it may take time for it to sink in.

 

[Vaccine]

Not sure if this is an approved news source, please delete if not:

Mystery man who gave hiker lift 3 days before she vanished hunted by cops

 

[PommyMommy]

Not sure if this is an approved news source, please delete if not:

Mystery man who gave hiker lift 3 days before she vanished hunted by cops

Noting:

• On November 19 , she said on Facebook how bad weather had forced her to change her plans and she accepted a lift from a fellow hiker to head back down to the valley where her camper van was parked.
• The man is believed to have dropped Esther off at Benasque on the Spanish side where her van has been found by police who are examining it.
• An investigative source in Spain said: ''This man would have had conversations with her and may know what she planned.
• “They may have arranged to meet and hike another route. It is imperative that we find him.''
• Esther started walking from Benasque on Nov 21 but all trace of her was lost at 4pm the following day after she sent a smiling selfie from a peak.
• Her phone will have continued to send signals to mobile network masts if switched on, revealing her approximate location unless it was deactivated, broken, or taken from her.
• The peak is surrounded by rocky crags and deep mountain lakes but French investigators say “signals were excellent” thanks to nearby masts.
• A source said: “These cell towers communicate with devices when they are turned on, so technically the missing person’s phone can be tracked down to its last known location.

 

[Vaccine]

The Times - only news source I've seen to quote the police forces investigating the case:

Missing hiker Esther Dingley may not be in mountains, say rescuers | News | The Times.

'A source in the French gendarmerie said investigators believed that a mountain accident was still the most likely cause of Ms Dingley’s disappearance but that no lines of inquiry were being ruled out.

“Accident? Crime? Something else? We are ignoring nothing even if an accident remains the theory that is favoured,” they said.

The inquiry initially involved only the Gendarmerie’s High Mountain Unit in Luchon in the Pyrenees but the Research Brigade in nearby Saint-Gaudens took charge of the case on November 26. The transfer is standard practice, and does not necessarily mean that foul play is suspected. The High Mountain Unit is still searching for Ms Dingley.

French investigators say Ms Dingley was last seen by Spanish walkers on the Spanish side of the Pic de Sauvegarde on November 22. They say she was intending to cross into France and to follow a trail that would lead her back into Spain.

However, the source said that there had been no sightings of her in France. “There are usually a lot of walkers in this area but because it is lockdown in France there are none at all at the moment. We cannot be sure that she entered French territory,” they said.

Ms Dingley, who is described by French investigators as an “experienced walker”, is thought likely to have placed her telephone in airplane mode to save her battery.

Gendarmes have scoured the area where Ms Dingley was intending to walk with a helicopter. On Tuesday a drone was also used but it did not find her.

With snow falling Wednesday, the helicopter and drone were unable to fly but search parties were still looking for Ms Dingley on foot on the French side of the Pyrenees.

 

[Alyce]

Esther’s family in Aylesbury, Bucks also declined to comment.


Mystery man who gave hiker lift 3 days before she vanished hunted by cops

 

[CoverMeCagney]

So, if the mast signals are so good, they should be able to confirm whether Esther moved after the Whatsapp selfie was sent. Do we know what time that was? I've got 4pm in my head but the sun would've set at 5:30/6ish so you'd think she'd be wanting to find a safe warm place asap.

The whole timings of social media and messaging is troubling me. Could there have been delays in her pressing send and the messages going through?

 

[Grouse]

So, if the mast signals are so good, they should be able to confirm whether Esther moved after the Whatsapp selfie was sent. Do we know what time that was? I've got 4pm in my head but the sun would've set at 5:30/6ish so you'd think she'd be wanting to find a safe warm place asap.

The whole timings of social media and messaging is troubling me. Could there have been delays in her pressing send and the messages going through?

5PM was mentioned but (and I might have been wrong) I responded an earlier post by @hitthenick , where he had spotted a reflection of the radio mast in Esther's glasses and posted the exact location fix from google maps. It looked to me from that, and the shadow of the mast, that the sun might have been at SSE angle which puts the time a lot earlier.

 

[Satchie]

DBM

 

[CoverMeCagney]

IIRC there were witnesses or a witness who saw her on the trail after she'd sent that photo to Colegate.

It has been said that there were witnesses who saw Esther on that day, but I haven't seen anything specific about what time she was seen. Can you recall where you read that?

 

[Grouse]

IIRC there were witnesses or a witness who saw her on the trail after she'd sent that photo to Colegate.

Yes actually I did see that as well, not sure if a time was mentioned by the witnesses? It was a very crude assessment by me of the google 360 pic and gauging the orientation and trying to assess the angles of the shadows so I may have been wrong, would be interesting if anyone else could corroborate it?

 

[Satchie]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

IMO, Esther would have been more at risk when she was staying in her van than when she was in the mountains. What would be the motive for tracking her through the mountains just to kill her? She was just an ordinary 37 year old woman, plenty of those can be found by going on Tindr, no hiking necessary.

 

[Satchie]

It has been said that there were witnesses who saw Esther on that day, but I haven't seen anything specific about what time she was seen. Can you recall where you read that?

I've deleted that post, I think the witnesses saw her on the mountain top, but no witnesses after that. And we don't know what time they saw her on the mountain.

The searchers state that she had 8 miles to hike from the mountaintop - that requires a good three hours time and sunset is at 5:30. If she didn't leave enough time to finish the hike before dark, that could certainly explain getting lost. But I think it would have been mentioned.

There's all sorts of media coverage of the cell signals, however IMO she would certainly have kept her phone in airplane mode, until she needed to use it to check in with her spouse, she wouldn't waste that battery power by having the phone constantly pinging off cell towers, she had no way to recharge it. If she'd been in trouble and could call for help, IMO she'd have turned it on. So no signal IMO means everything was okay, until suddenly it wasn't.

 

[Grouse]

I've deleted that post, I think the witnesses saw her on the mountain top, but no witnesses after that. And we don't know what time they saw her on the mountain.

The searchers state that she had 8 miles to hike from the mountaintop - that requires a good three hours time and sunset is at 5:30. If she didn't leave enough time to finish the hike before dark, that could certainly explain getting lost. But I think it would have been mentioned.

There's all sorts of media coverage of the cell signals, however IMO she would certainly have kept her phone in airplane mode, until she needed to use it to check in with her spouse, she wouldn't waste that battery power by having the phone constantly pinging off cell towers, she had no way to recharge it. If she'd been in trouble and could call for help, IMO she'd have turned it on. So no signal IMO means everything was okay, until suddenly it wasn't.

I find it hard to believe she was on the summit at 5PM at the end of November, with an 8 mile descent before her, unless she was used to hill walking in total darkness

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I've deleted that post, I think the witnesses saw her on the mountain top, but no witnesses after that. And we don't know what time they saw her on the mountain.

The searchers state that she had 8 miles to hike from the mountaintop - that requires a good three hours time and sunset is at 5:30. If she didn't leave enough time to finish the hike before dark, that could certainly explain getting lost. But I think it would have been mentioned.

There's all sorts of media coverage of the cell signals, however IMO she would certainly have kept her phone in airplane mode, until she needed to use it to check in with her spouse, she wouldn't waste that battery power by having the phone constantly pinging off cell towers, she had no way to recharge it. If she'd been in trouble and could call for help, IMO she'd have turned it on. So no signal IMO means everything was okay, until suddenly it wasn't.

Just jumping off this, pretty much all of Esther's recent posts have been made after sunset - 6pm, 7:30, 9pm etc. She must sit down and sort through photos and compose her posts after she's done her day of walking.

You're right about the airplane mode, that was mentioned early on in the case. She presumably would quickly switch it on to text/whatsapp people, then back off again. Dangerous really, being alone up a mountain with zero trackability.

@hitthenick are you sure that the 22nd photo was taken in the same place and at the same time as the photos on Instagram from 21st? It seems odd that she didn't include that photo in her album. It seems odd that she'd revisit the same bit of mountain. It seems odd that she wouldn't send a 'today' photo to her partner.

 

[Zoomy]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>
IMO, Esther would have been more at risk when she was staying in her van than when she was in the mountains. What would be the motive for tracking her through the mountains just to kill her? She was just an ordinary 37 year old woman, plenty of those can be found by going on Tindr, no hiking necessary.

Yes, I agree, it would be unlikely for someone to track her through the mountains, though I do think posting on facebook with a photo and the name of the refuge she is sleeping alone in that night for the whole world to see, is rather naive, why not wait til the following day? I am thinking more of a scenario similar to when she met the man who gave her the lift. Again, I know she didn't have much choice as the weather had turned, but getting in a car with a complete stranger is incredibly risky.

 

[Satchie]

BBM:

Given her heavy SM presence, one certainly can't rule out the possibility of a selfie-related accidental fall. Just doing a basic online search using "person falls off mountain taking selfie" will lead to numerous tragic cases :

British tourist, 21, dies falling off Australian cliff while taking selfie

Officials plea for caution after another sightseer falls to death while taking photos

Man falls to death off cliff while taking pictures, more human remains found during recovery effort

The list goes on and on and on....

My main man William of Occam agrees with you.

A fall is the most likely scenario.

JMO.

I agree that this is very likely, though looking at her page she wasn't always taking selfies but often just landscape photos. There is a temptation to see and photograph the view from every possible direction. I suspect this is what has caused the accidental death of many hikers, missing and found, even predating selfies, just to the desire to go off the trail to get a better view.

 

[HongKongPhooey]

Just noticed that on the Dan and Esther FB page someone has screenshotted a WS member's post. It's a comment on Dan's post yesterday just before 8pm.

 

[Satchie]

Just jumping off this, pretty much all of Esther's recent posts have been made after sunset - 6pm, 7:30, 9pm etc. She must sit down and sort through photos and compose her posts after she's done her day of walking.

You're right about the airplane mode, that was mentioned early on in the case. She presumably would quickly switch it on to text/whatsapp people, then back off again. Dangerous really, being alone up a mountain with zero trackability.

@hitthenick are you sure that the 22nd photo was taken in the same place and at the same time as the photos on Instagram from 21st? It seems odd that she didn't include that photo in her album. It seems odd that she'd revisit the same bit of mountain. It seems odd that she wouldn't send a 'today' photo to her partner.

I'm confused about references to the Instagram photo, which Instagram account is it posted on?

Also, there may be a date difference because of multiple time zones, IMO sometimes software will convert time/date to the local time of the websleuther, rather than display the local time of the original evidence. I recall this happened with Twitter, all the WSers saw the tweet as having been sent at a different time/day depending on where they were located.