Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #1

[ZaZara]

I disagree with the source. I am 100% convinced in my own judgement that the two photos were taken on the same day. The sky on the horizon seems to have an identical quality. I think even the same stray hair is glistening on her forehead, tuft of loose hair on top right of her head, and her water tube is there it's just more hidden in the second photo because of the angle of the photo. I don't believe it would have still been that bright of light at the top on the Sunday, given the time of her passing the hikers at 3pm and having more than an hour's trek ahead.

these are the two photos side by side to save searching back through the thread

Another thing to bear in mind for anyone calculating sun angles is that these photos are reverse (mirror) images - you can see this from the osprey logo being the wrong way round.

Here is Osprey reversed ~ thanks to your sharp eye, Grouse!

This puts the sun in the left corner of the picture, in the WEST as it should be (Pyrenees are roughly east - west)

Are the shadows longer in one picture or the other?

However, the strains of hair seemed to have moved from one side of her head to the other, and also the way she combed back her hair.

Weird.

 

[Tortoise]

Well is the other one reversed too?

 

[ZaZara]

Well is the other one reversed too?

I think that could well be the case. Here's those hairs back in place:

 

[Grouse]

Well is the other one reversed too?

yes both reversed - unless she move the water tube to the other side

 

[Grouse]

However, the strains of hair seemed to have moved from one side of her head to the other, and also the way she combed back her hair.

Weird.

as per my previous post I think the 2 photos are taken in opposite directions (quite a natural thing to do to capture all sides of the view) so maybe the wind was blowing her hair the opposite way?

I'm actually starting to find it a bit upsetting looking at these pictures of her now, she looks so happy on them.

 

[RickshawFan]

I wonder why Esther would have been asking for fruit and not having sufficient supplies with her if she still had a fair time ahead of her before she planned to return to the campervan. I suppose it could have been her 'way' of making human contact and not necessarily indicative of dehydration.

I watched a video she made much earlier this year when she described a similar incident of going out without enough refreshment and asking a garage worker for drink and food. On that occasion she had no money or phone on her. I'm not sure on the rules for linking to it, despite being part of the antique furniture here.

Asking for fruit bothers me because it's heavy. IMO she wouldn't have asked for it unless she really needed it. She might also have seen that the other hiker had extra.
If she asked for food, she almost certainly didn't have extra snacks or an extra meal in the pack. This bothers me, especially in cold weather, since food (aka calories aka heat) keeps you warm.
I observe in general that she had a difficult time ascertaining her limits or even human limitations. Sorry, but you just don't walk into serious, pending, forecasted, weather like snow. Not taking enough food for the task at hand would be in that category.

 

[Grouse]

That timeline in the picture doesn't sit right with me. When she descended with the other hiker she clearly implied he gave her a lift back to the campervan which was parked up in Benasque I believe. So the ascent would not have been from 3 to 4 but from 1 to 4 ?

 

[CoverMeCagney]

The Refuge de Venasque, which is where I believe Esther was planning to stay that night, is marked as being only 750 -1000 metres as the crow flies from Pic de Sauvegard as it is pinned on the map. Sauvegard is about 14km from where her campervan is parked.

If you click on the 3D button on the right, you can see the terrain very clearly:

Google Maps

So really, had she done the planned route, it leaves a relatively small area to search. I'd be very interested to know at exactly what point she was seen by the other hikers (the ones who were walking down the mountain).

Wondering if she really made it to the top on 22nd, even though it would seem so from what we've been told.

EDITED: measurements were wrong

 

[Liz40]

So, if the mast signals are so good, they should be able to confirm whether Esther moved after the Whatsapp selfie was sent. Do we know what time that was? I've got 4pm in my head but the sun would've set at 5:30/6ish so you'd think she'd be wanting to find a safe warm place asap.

The whole timings of social media and messaging is troubling me. Could there have been delays in her pressing send and the messages going through?

Also should perhaps be considered whether it was actually Esther posting?

 

[Liz40]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

IMO, Esther would have been more at risk when she was staying in her van than when she was in the mountains. What would be the motive for tracking her through the mountains just to kill her? She was just an ordinary 37 year old woman, plenty of those can be found by going on Tindr, no hiking necessary.

Perhaps a specific obsession had built up, but who knows?

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Also should perhaps be considered whether it was actually Esther posting?

She was seen by witnesses about 3:30pm, she was alone at that time but spoke to some of them. Then she contacted Dan at 4pm (some reports say this was a call, some say a Whatsapp).

 

[ZaZara]

The Refuge de Venasque, which is where I believe Esther was planning to stay that night, is marked as being only 750 metres, a 14 minute walk, from Pic de Sauvegard as it is pinned on the map. Sauvegard is about 14km from where her campervan is parked.

If you click on the 3D button on the right, you can see the terrain very clearly:

Google Maps

So really, had she done the planned route, she should have been back at the refuge soon after sending Dan the photo. Which leaves a relatively small area to search. I'd be very interested to know at exactly what point she was seen by the other hikers (the ones who were walking down the mountain).

Wondering if she really made it to the top on 22nd, even though it would seem so from what we've been told.

I think Google Maps is being a tad optimistic. The other way round, coming from the Refuge de Venasque and the Puerto de Benasque, experienced hikers take over 2 hour to reach the top of the Salvaguardia, mentioning that the track wasn't difficult.

I switched the locations on your google map, and the time remained 14 minutes whether you go UP or DOWN in the mountains.

Not likely IMHO.

 

[Liz40]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed; different case>

I would venture to bet that there are almost always other hikers around on the camino, and hikers on long treks tend to cluster up and hang for a while. I imagine that's especially so on that pilgrimage, as it's a kind of religious walk with other pilgrims. Many pilgrims on the way is kind of the point.
That would add to safety.
On the other hand, the Camino goes through heavily populated areas: way bigger chance of a perp on that trail than some others, I would think.
An occasional murder does not a hazard make, however. There have been several murders on the AT. Does that mean it's unsafe? Well, I'll bet the incidence of murder is lower on that trail than the surrounding areas.
However, who would want to be a predator at 12k odd feet, as in the Pyrenees? That's not exactly low hanging fruit. Plus, the victim would be very fit.
There is more likely to have been a problem if ED hitched a ride. I suppose someone could have tried to steal her stuff (she had VERY expensive equipment) and a fatal tussle ensued. But this also might not have been a "stranger danger" situation. Evidently, nothing has been ruled out.

I felt that there was a definite familiarity there when Esther described the possibility of a lift from a fellow hiker. I wondered whether she already knew him? Seems odd that he hasn't come forward.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I think Google Maps is being a tad optimistic. The other way round, coming from the Refuge de Venasque and the Puerto de Benasque, experienced hikers take over 2 hour to reach the top of the Salvaguardia, mentioning that the track wasn't difficult.

I switched the locations on your google map, and the time remained 14 minutes whether you go UP or DOWN in the mountains.

Not likely IMHO.

Yeah I thought it looked overly favourable and I've realised it was as the crow flies. I've edited my post. 2 hours wouldn't have been enough time for her to get the refuge before the sun set. Just not convinced she actually got all the way to the top that day.

 

[Satchie]

I think Google Maps is being a tad optimistic. The other way round, coming from the Refuge de Venasque and the Puerto de Benasque, experienced hikers take over 2 hour to reach the top of the Salvaguardia, mentioning that the track wasn't difficult.

I switched the locations on your google map, and the time remained 14 minutes whether you go UP or DOWN in the mountains.

Not likely IMHO.

I agree, here is a description of the hike going from the French side, ie the opposite direction of what Esther was planning to do that day:
Refuge Venasque to the Port (mountain pass) of Venasque=30 minutes
Port Venasque to Pic Sauveguard=45 minutes to 1 hour.

Estimated time for a fast person going down, maybe 1 hour? So in that case, reaching the top at 4, lingering a bit, then going at speed could possibly get her to the refuge before pitch dark. But rushing can also increase risks.

The report also states: "Note that the summit area is surrounded by sheer cliffs, still it is possible to walk a few tens of meters to the W to enjoy some more stunning views over le Lac de la Montagnette, and a few meters to the N to look down at the Refuge de Venasque and admire the four lakes visited on the way up. No safe way down on the other sides it seems, so best is to retrace one's steps to the Port de Venasque and down the same way" Walk in , ascent 1360m, length 16.3km

 

[Liz40]

It does worry me that he hasn't come forward yet. If that was me and I was innocent, I would want to clear my name asap.

Completely agree. It's very strange that he hasn't come forward.

 

[Satchie]

So was she climbing to the top of the same peak the next day? Why would she do that? I need to go back over the maps...

I've thought of a few possibilities, from reading her account on the 19th and her chagrin at quitting that hike.

Maybe she went up Sauvegard as a daytrip on the 21st to reconnoitre the area and decide whether it was safe to do a multiday trip ie how much snow there was. Maybe she went back on the 22nd get a good view of the weather on the French side, where she was headed. Also, perhaps she didn't want to just hike from her van to the refuge, that would be too dull, but there are no other peaks she felt up to trying in the vicinity. So she went back up what she felt was a fabulous hike, that she knew was within her ability.

IMO, she didn't much care for hanging around a campsite for hours of daylight (I think the refuge is closed and she would have camped there). So timing to arrive at dusk actually makes sense.

 

[RickshawFan]

I felt that there was a definite familiarity there when Esther described the possibility of a lift from a fellow hiker. I wondered whether she already knew him? Seems odd that he hasn't come forward.

Maybe he doesn't exist?

 

[Satchie]

Also should perhaps be considered whether it was actually Esther posting?

Doesn't everyone have a lock on their phone these day? I can't imagine travelling around with an unlocked phone. Also, it's very hard for a stranger to send a message that would fool a spouse. Esther was very communicative, not just cryptic texts.

 

[Liz40]

Maybe he doesn't exist?

Very true.