Speculation on the Second Cross

[gardenhart]

It is perfectly acceptable to discuss the source, as long as all opposing opinions are also welcomed. It becomes another story altogether though, when several who share the same opinions deny the rights of the other's to also express their possibly different opinion on the subject. Then to call a close to ALL comments on the subject simply due to the fact that one does not agree with the opinions which are different than their own is unacceptable. YES let's all share our opinions of LP and YES let's analyze the information and the man to the 10th degree and hope that it gets us somewhere productive, but let's not have our say and then attempt to silence others who do not see things in the same light. I think that it is perfectly clear that there are people who do not like LP and there are others who make it their "board" mission to discredit him at any given opportunity. However, there ARE those of us who admire and respect the man, and we have as much right to our opinion and the expression of it as anyone who detests him.

I would LOVE to see real dialogue with opposing views vs what I am seeing, which is incessant chiding of people for disagreeing with the LP fan club. I don't think meaningless bashing is productive either. But what I see is any attempt to argue that LP isn't always correct or perhaps isn't as plugged in as some would believe is met with these tiresome complaints about LP bashing.

I don't detest him, btw, or anything close to it. I just don't think every word out of his mouth is gospel.

 

[Bev]

Why is it assumed that if you don't like what he is doing, then you hate the man? This isn't high school, we're all adults here, it's possible to be completely neutral on LP and still criticize his behavior and question his motives. Looking at his past can help us judge his reliability now.

 

[Chilly Willy]

Why is it assumed that if you don't like what he is doing, then you hate the man? This isn't high school, we're all adults here, it's possible to be completely neutral on LP and still criticize his behavior and question his motives. Looking at his past can help us judge his reliability now.

Exactly. I don't understand why everyone in this case except LP seems to be fair game. Much of what he says seems to come directly from his imagination and is not backed up by any released evidence. It's foolish, IMO, to accept any theories or speculation as fact without considering the reliability of the source and the reasonableness of the theory.

 

[Bev]

I agree CW. It's important to look at all the information, check the reliability of the source and the information, try to find other confirming sources and then decide if it is evidentiary. Never once did I say no one should look at this info, I said it is useless to us if we can't look at its provenance.

 

[Chilly Willy]

I agree CW. It's important to look at all the information, check the reliability of the source and the information, try to find other confirming sources and then decide if it is evidentiary. Never once did I say no one should look at this info, I said it is useless to us if we can't look at its provenance.

Well, let's see. According to LP, Caylee choked on a candy bar, fell off a balcony, drowned in a pool, was placed in a pool to fake a drowning, died from an accidental overdose of Chloroform on June 15th - but only because Casey left the house without her Xanax - was tossed in a dumpster by Amscot, was placed in a dumpster by Tony's apartment, was buried in the woods on June 27th, more than a week after the forensic report says she was removed from the car ......etc. etc. etc. All this, of course, after he first proclaimed that Casey was innocent.

Forgive me for not believing every word that comes out of his mouth.

 

[Bev]

And Chilly, that's only half of it - one thing that really concerns me is that the body guard wanted imunity - that makes me wonder if she was wired and that is why they parked that RV in front of the house. That's the only reason why that guard would want imunity from prosecution.

 

[Chilly Willy]

And Chilly, that's only half of it - one thing that really concerns me is that the body guard wanted imunity - that makes me wonder if she was wired and that is why they parked that RV in front of the house. That's the only reason why that guard would want imunity from prosecution.

I wonder what ever became of that. Why would someone who has done nothing illegal need immunity? Of course, if the woman was wearing a wire, nothing she heard could legally be used against Casey.

 

[Bev]

It would really muddy this case too - it's illegal to act as an agent of the police, it's illegal to tape another party without his/her consent and the defense would clobber them with fruit of the poison tree motions - every piece of evidence found by the police after that would be in question. That bit with the lie detector tests and how LP said that LA talked them out of it made me highly suspicious - LP would have NO way of knowing what LA said to them (or didn't say to them) if he wasn't eavesdropping.

 

[magic-cat]

And Chilly, that's only half of it - one thing that really concerns me is that the body guard wanted imunity - that makes me wonder if she was wired and that is why they parked that RV in front of the house. That's the only reason why that guard would want imunity from prosecution.

Perhaps she did wear a wire, and perhaps that info cannot be used in a court of law, BUT that does not mean that what was HEARD cannot be followed up on and investigated, yes? Perhaps she wanted immunity because she felt that she was breaking some sort of confidentiality clause and did not want to break confidence unless she would NOT be held accountable. Perhaps she wanted immunity because Casey told her something important and she did not immediately report it as would be the standard protocol in such a situation. Perhaps perhaps perhaps...is all we know on that score...

 

[magic-cat]

I would LOVE to see real dialogue with opposing views vs what I am seeing, which is incessant chiding of people for disagreeing with the LP fan club. I don't think meaningless bashing is productive either. But what I see is any attempt to argue that LP isn't always correct or perhaps isn't as plugged in as some would believe is met with these tiresome complaints about LP bashing.

Respectfully snipped.
Bold mine.
I would also love to see this dialogue get beyond what I am seeing. And what I see is that any attempt to justify LP could sometimes, on the rare ocassion, be correct about something, and perhaps does know a little bit of something, since he is a lawyer and founder of a law school and an almost 70 year old man is met with incessant chiding of people for disagreeing with the LP NON fan club. Of course he isn't always correct-nobody IS, and any attempt to argue ON his behalf is met with the very same tiresome complaints about LP fans...

You see my dear, it goes both ways. I concede that LP is not perfect and that he is fallible and that he is human and that he has had numerous and multiple theories and most of those were erroneous. But I also stand firmly in the stance that he is in this because he, JUST LIKE US, has developed a connection with this little girl , he has become as OBSSESSED as we all are, and if he can lend a hand in any way shape or form in the investigation that leads to this sweet girl being found, then I am gung ho behind him all the way.

 

[Bev]

No Magic cat, it means that whatever LP heard and passed on to the police cannot be used and police cannot follow up on it. LP and anyone who works for him is considered an agent of LE.

There is only one reason why that body guard would want immunity and that's if she did something illegal. LP is not a lawyer - he received an honorary JD degree from the unacredited law school which does not meet any of the requirements of the California bar or the rules for taking the bar exam. He's done a year in prison for tax evasion which would have gotten his law license revoked, if he ever had one, and he's been shopping a reality series treatment for several years now. He's a gadfly and a publicity hound and when all this comes out, and it will, the person who is going to get hurt is Tim Miller who is going to rue the day he ever got involved with LP.

I don't hate the guy, I don't care about him one way or another, what I do object to is people who interject and interfere with LE's pursuit of a high profile case and then shine the public on with misinformation and rank speculation, of which he has not been right about one claim he has made since the first day he involved himself - not one.

Correction - LP went to Lincoln Law School, another unacreditated law school.

 

[Lexington]

That bit with the lie detector tests and how LP said that LA talked them out of it made me highly suspicious - LP would have NO way of knowing what LA said to them (or didn't say to them) if he wasn't eavesdropping.

LP stated on the NG show that LA told him that the A's were asked to take a lie detector test by LE. LA then later came back to LP and told him that the parents were not going to take the test. Highly unlikely that LA was running back and forth the house and the RV reporting to LP what the A's were or were not planning to do.

 

[mom2chloe]

No Magic cat, it means that whatever LP heard and passed on to the police cannot be used and police cannot follow up on it. LP and anyone who works for him is considered an agent of LE.

There is only one reason why that body guard would want immunity and that's if she did something illegal. LP is not a lawyer - he received an honorary JD degree from the unacredited law school which does not meet any of the requirements of the California bar or the rules for taking the bar exam. He's done a year in prison for tax evasion which would have gotten his law license revoked, if he ever had one, and he's been shopping a reality series treatment for several years now. He's a gadfly and a publicity hound and when all this comes out, and it will, the person who is going to get hurt is Tim Miller who is going to rue the day he ever got involved with LP.

I don't hate the guy, I don't care about him one way or another, what I do object to is people who interject and interfere with LE's pursuit of a high profile case and then shine the public on with misinformation and rank speculation, of which he has not been right about one claim he has made since the first day he involved himself - not one.

Are we certain that any information LP might have obtained would not be admissable in court? I am remembering the case of Baby Sabrina in FL, where the cops wired the parent's home and that information was admitted in their court case. It seems if LP were working with LE to glean information from KC and other A family members, at the very least this info could have been used as an investigative tool. LE is free to follow up on any tips they receive, including those from LP and his staff. If LP was working with LE's knowledge and blessing, then I would think this information would be even more credible.

I was furious when LP bailed KC out and tickled pink when he revoked that bond. At this point, I don't care why he is involved. Any assistance he can offer LE, TM and the general public is greatly appreciated. Was it LP's nephew who said don't listen to his words, watch what he does (in reference to LP)? I think he plays KC's game quite well as we have watched from the sidelines and I, for one, will continue to watch what he does, hoping all along that in some way, LP will assist in assuring a KC DP verdict. JMHO

 

[Bev]

It's very different when LE taps or eavesdrops, they have a obtain a search warrant. If others do it it they are considered agents of the police and without a search warrant any information obtained cannot be used.

 

[gardenhart]

Respectfully snipped.
Bold mine.
I would also love to see this dialogue get beyond what I am seeing. And what I see is that any attempt to justify LP could sometimes, on the rare ocassion, be correct about something, and perhaps does know a little bit of something, since he is a lawyer and founder of a law school and an almost 70 year old man is met with incessant chiding of people for disagreeing with the LP NON fan club. Of course he isn't always correct-nobody IS, and any attempt to argue ON his behalf is met with the very same tiresome complaints about LP fans...

You see my dear, it goes both ways. I concede that LP is not perfect and that he is fallible and that he is human and that he has had numerous and multiple theories and most of those were erroneous. But I also stand firmly in the stance that he is in this because he, JUST LIKE US, has developed a connection with this little girl , he has become as OBSSESSED as we all are, and if he can lend a hand in any way shape or form in the investigation that leads to this sweet girl being found, then I am gung ho behind him all the way.

Accusing someone of bashing is chiding. Saying that you disagree and citing the reasons is stating an argument, not chiding. No one on either side of this should be chiding the other or appealing to emotions instead of citing valid facts, assuming the purpose of this board is to ferret out the truth by hammering out the facts.

I really don't care whether someone loves LP, hates LP or has no strong emotions about him one way or another. I'm just trying to make a case for keeping the discussions in the realm of usefulness instead of constant bickering.

 

[gardenhart]

It's very different when LE taps or eavesdrops, they have a obtain a search warrant. If others do it it they are considered agents of the police and without a search warrant any information obtained cannot be used.

The wiretapping laws are different in each state. In Florida, since both parties have to consent, if the female body guard taped any conversations without the other person agreeing, it was illegal.

Florida's wiretapping law is a "two-party consent" law. Florida makes it a crime to intercept or record a "wire, oral, or electronic communication" in Florida, unless all parties to the communication consent. See Fla. Stat. ch. 934.03. Florida law makes an exception for in-person communications when the parties do not have a reasonable expectation of privacy in the conversation, such as when they are engaged in conversation in a public place where they might reasonably be overheard. If you are operating in Florida, you may record these kinds of in-person conversations without breaking the law. However, you should always get the consent of all parties before recording any telephone conversation and any in-person that common sense tells you is private.

In addition to subjecting you to criminal prosecution, violating the Florida wiretapping law can expose you to a civil lawsuit for damages by an injured party

http://www.citmedialaw.org/legal-guide/florida/florida-recording-law

The main reason why I'm a bit leery of LP's statements is because he seldom if ever cites his sources, even in a general way. He never clarifies whether he's repeating something he knows is fact or if it's just his opinion or theory either. How can you weigh the accuracy of what he says when you have no idea where it came from or whether it's just something he extrapolated and from what?

 

[kgeaux]

I am not so sure what I would do in their situation, and I pray to God that I never may have to find out. I do know that I am fairly certain that IF I was so minded to tamper with evidence, I most certainly would not be so idiotic as to TELL the police that I had done so. They give too much away that they are trying to hide...

I do not believe Cindy thought the pants were evidence when she washed them; washing the pants is not "tampering with evidence" if one is not aware of the potential evidentiary value. IF she thought they were evidence and washed them to destroy the evidence, she would never have told LE about it. The very fact that she DID tell is evidence that she wasn't trying to hide her actions.

The main reason why I'm a bit leery of LP's statements is because he seldom if ever cites his sources, even in a general way. He never clarifies whether he's repeating something he knows is fact or if it's just his opinion or theory either. How can you weigh the accuracy of what he says when you have no idea where it came from or whether it's just something he extrapolated and from what?

Exactly! If there is not ANY documentation that something has happened other than someone who won't disclose his sources, not even in a vague way ("someone from the prosecutor's office leaked this to me" for instance) makes me believe he isn't disclosing sources because he has none.

Either way, LP has been wrong far more often than he has been right, and I take everything he says with a HUGE grain of salt, unless there is some corroborating source.

 

[magic-cat]

Accusing someone of bashing is chiding. Saying that you disagree and citing the reasons is stating an argument, not chiding. No one on either side of this should be chiding the other or appealing to emotions instead of citing valid facts, assuming the purpose of this board is to ferret out the truth by hammering out the facts.

I really don't care whether someone loves LP, hates LP or has no strong emotions about him one way or another. I'm just trying to make a case for keeping the discussions in the realm of usefulness instead of constant bickering.

I'm with you fellers...

 

[BB12]

And Chilly, that's only half of it - one thing that really concerns me is that the body guard wanted imunity - that makes me wonder if she was wired and that is why they parked that RV in front of the house. That's the only reason why that guard would want imunity from prosecution.

THIS WOULD EXPLAIN A LOT....

GOOD CATCH!!:clap:

 

[magic-cat]

THIS WOULD EXPLAIN A LOT....

GOOD CATCH!!:clap:

Hi stark! I do not believe that the guard was wired. They are smarter than that. I believe she overheard things while she was in there. Imagine how hard it is to keep Cindy subdued in PUBLIC much less in private. There may have been things that "slipped" out, or she may have just overheard things she was not supposed to hear. Mr. Padilla was on "good terms" with the family for a few days and they were talking to him quite a bit then, as though because he had put up all that money (or had it put up) that made him a confidante of some kind, and they may have trusted him more than we know, initially. I absolutely, to use Casey's most prized vocabulary word, do not in any way believe that the guard was wired, and I think if any further statements are made that she was then they should be qualified with some proof. Just as it is not appropriate to implicate the Anthony's in Caylee's death, so too it is just as inappropriate to implicate the body guard in a plot to engage in illegal and illicit activity...It is very possible that she wanted immunity only because she either heard something with her own ears and did not report it, or she saw something with her own eyes and did not report it, and IF she reports it NOW she wants to not be held accountable for holding it back. BUT she may have told ALL to LE long ago, as you will notice, it died and was only resurrected in regards to HOW Mr. Padilla came into HIS information.