Stain in Trunk May Show Outline of Child**REVISIT FOR READING*

[Harmony 2]

There is a stain and an impression. The stain was reported by George and LE also; it sounds like the stain is very obvious. The impression is an outline left by the weight of an object/body on the trunk liner. Like if you left a heavy box in your trunk--that would leave an impression.

~BBM~

The stain was on the spare tire cover (pg. 19- "a suspected stain on the spare tire cover" and pg. 65- "sealed metal can containing a piece of stained spare tire cover").

The spare tire cover is differentiated from the liner on page 56 as evidential item numbers.

http://www.clickorlando.com/download/2009/0929/21147154.pdf

 

[christee]

I was kinda skeptical abt reports of a visible outline of a body in the trunk. But I hate to say it, I do see the outline.
Awful, really sad-that poor child...
:angel2:

 

[Mohabi]

I didnt think you could get me a link to an official report that shows human beings can smell the differnce between decomposing animals. I cant find it either. I could call a cop, but I dont trust them anymore than you do.

I can't get you a link to an official report and I'm not a cop. I've smelled a decomposing human (thanks to archaic european pre-funeral practices) and I've smelled decomposing animals. They do NOT smell the same. You have to have smelled a dead human to know what one smells like. You never forget it because it doesn't compare to anything else.

 

[christee]

The LE officers know the smell because they have smelled it. Same as George.

Yes, it is a fact that the paper towels contain the same fats as a decomposing human body.

It is also a fact that an official FBI or expert report will NEVER NEVER say "this is definitely human decomp" or anything similar. They will ALWAYS say that, of course, if something completely crazy happened (like...um...a couple of pigs playing with nail polish remover and bleach in the trunk and then dying in there) it might cause a similar chemical signature. That pig scenario wouldn't explain Caylee's hair, though. And of course the fact that Caylee was found dead also bolsters the conclusion that her dead body was in her mom's trunk. At least we've eliminated the possibility that these lab results are incorrect because Caylee is alive.

The FBI agent was saying that she was told she couldn't say the hair was definitely from a dead body. Exactly what I said in the previous paragraph. They won't say 100%, not ever.

The air samples are not junk science. They are fairly new science, so they will certainly be challenged by the defense, but they aren't junk science.

You really just need to read the threads and do your own research. Or call a homicide cop. Yes, experts (which would include homicide cops and cadaver dogs) can tell the difference between these smells. Yes, their testimony regarding these things is permitted in court.

I have to say I've smelled really rotten garbage and that is a fraction of the intensity of human decomp odor. It really made my eyes water not to mention the effect on my stomach.

 

[AZlawyer]

Soda
juice

Not sure of everything, but there were maggots which indicate rotten food.

I assume we can at least agree that maggots would seek out a decomposing human body also?

 

[strach304]

There is a report. There was a trash bag with rotten food in that trunk. The trash came from Tony's kitchen.

But there were no food products in it anyway. Empty pizza box. Empty cheese wrappers, etc. Now the paper towels that's a whole other story.

 

[Just Jayla]

We have George (former LE) saying that the smell of human decomp is distinctive and was the smell coming from the car. We have Cindy (nurse) saying the smell was that of a dead body--until she backtracked. We have LE officers saying that the smell was human decomp. We have cadaver dogs alerting to the trunk. We have air composition tests that contain the chemical signatures you would expect for human decomp. We have paper towels in the trunk that contain the combination of fats you would expect for a human being who had decomposed in the trunk for a time period consistent with the air composition test results. We have a hair from a dead Caylee in the trunk. The forensics results from the trunk are consistent with those from another trunk that contained a dead baby, and inconsistent with tests run on rotting pizza and dead squirrels.

And rotting food and most decomposing animals are chemically VERY different from a decomposing human body. There would not be any reason they would smell remotely similar, and indeed they don't, according to everyone who has ever had the opportunity to compare the smells.

ITA...Virginia has a few old gold mines and I thought I would go by an area where there was a big operation early last century to see if I could get lucky....Anyway, in one of the reclaimed areas, a hunting club stockpiled all of the not so savory deer parts after dressing them there on the site-And that pile was the most pungent animal death I have smelled....In contrast to that smell, trash is absolutely nothing like it.

The only thing that you mentioned that I worry about is the oleic/other acids on the paper towel-There was a package of salami in that trash bag, and salami breaks down in a similar manner. Salami also has those fatty peices in it (lipids), you can imagine where I am going with that....

Link to everything you wanted to know about Salami...
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=15474585

ETA-Apparently, as salami "ripens," those particular fatty acids are at higher levels, similar to when a human decomposes.

 

[The Eunice Burns]

We have George (former LE) saying that the smell of human decomp is distinctive and was the smell coming from the car. We have Cindy (nurse) saying the smell was that of a dead body--until she backtracked. We have LE officers saying that the smell was human decomp. We have cadaver dogs alerting to the trunk. We have air composition tests that contain the chemical signatures you would expect for human decomp. We have paper towels in the trunk that contain the combination of fats you would expect for a human being who had decomposed in the trunk for a time period consistent with the air composition test results. We have a hair from a dead Caylee in the trunk. The forensics results from the trunk are consistent with those from another trunk that contained a dead baby, and inconsistent with tests run on rotting pizza and dead squirrels.

And rotting food and most decomposing animals are chemically VERY different from a decomposing human body. There would not be any reason they would smell remotely similar, and indeed they don't, according to everyone who has ever had the opportunity to compare the smells.

And we also have the towyard manager who stated that the car reeked like a dead body. How many more people would need to state that the car smelled like a dead body before it would convince the naysayers that the odor was a dead body and not rotten food?

 

[AZlawyer]

And we also have the towyard manager who testified that the car reeked like a dead body. How many more people would need to state that the car smelled like a dead body before it would convince the naysayers that the odor was a dead body and not rotten food?

Right. He said it smelled like a car they had in which someone had committed suicide.

 

[Just Jayla]

Casey herself said it was a dead squirrel, meaning she smelled it-Wouldn;t she have removed the trash bag if that was the source of the smell?

 

[JBean]

Rotten food. Its a simple as that. Rotten food is a decomposing body. I need a link to a report that says the smell comes from a decomposing human body.

I hear consistent with.
I hear decomposing body, but not decomposing human body.
I need to hear something official that says the smell came from a decomposing human body.

You are not required to think it is a human body!
iF you conclude it is food, then it is food in your opinion.
But,here is a better thread for your debate. If you do a title search on decomp that will turn up some better threads for this discussion. thanks.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73752"]In the trunk 2.6 days - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

Now let's move on everyone. If you think it is decomp and don't want to go around in circles, then don't.

 

[Just Jayla]

But there were no food products in it anyway. Empty pizza box. Empty cheese wrappers, etc. Now the paper towels that's a whole other story.

I just saw that you wrote this and I should edit the part of my post about the salami-There was not salami in the container, but the lipids fall out of salami very easily and, well, see my last post above for a link about salami break down...

 

[mimimama5]

ITA...Virginia has a few old gold mines and I thought I would go by an area where there was a big operation early last century to see if I could get lucky....Anyway, in one of the reclaimed areas, a hunting club stockpiled all of the not so savory deer parts after dressing them there on the site-And that pile was the most pungent animal death I have smelled....In contrast to that smell, trash is absolutely nothing like it.

The only thing that you mentioned that I worry about is the oleic/other acids on the paper towel-There was a package of salami in that trash bag, and salami breaks down in a similar manner. Salami also has those fatty peices in it (lipids), you can imagine where I am going with that....

Link to everything you wanted to know about Salami...
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=15474585

ETA-Apparently, as salami "ripens," those particular fatty acids are at higher levels, similar to when a human decomposes.

Ok you scared me into learning more than i ever wanted to know about salami!! I read your link, as best as I could understand it anyhow, and thought that moat generally salami is a cured meat that can be hardened and sold room temperature even. SOOO, I found this link ( my google search is just a mixed bag of yuck with this case ) http://www.ehow.com/how-does_5161213_salami-made.html > basically, what I am trying to imply here is that I doubt that anyone TL included was purchasing high quality, made fresh from the butcher salami. I was concerned with your link, I hate giving the defense any angle on which to spin good evidence. So I found one thats suits me better lol. Thanks for it doing legwork! You Rock!

 

[christee]

This is the same fbi lab tech that imagined an image on the duct tape.

This is the same fbi lab tech that is imagining an image of a child in a stain.

This is the same fbi lab tech that got her dna on the duct tape and contaminating the evidence.

Is she just out of school or what?

If I am wrong please correct me.

There is a B&W pic of that body-shaped stain in the trunk

 

[azwriter]

I know there's already been numerous threads/posts talking about what everyone's ideas of what happened, and I'm not saying that I believe that this is what happened, but something just occurred to me. Perhaps Caylee was in the pool/drowned. Casey panicked and put her soaking body in the trunk of the car. The water from her body/clothes soaked the trunk liner. Casey then decided to bag her and put her on top of the wet spot. The area around the weight of her body dried sooner than the area directly under her/under the plastic, thus leaving an outline that looks like a child in a fetal position and explaining why there isn't decomp fluids/dna in the stain itself?

I think I can live with this explaination.

 

[mistressammie]

Soda
juice

Not sure of everything, but there were maggots which indicate rotten food.

Perhaps you're just a bit too close to the case and need to step back a bit to see everyone else's theories. That said, I respect everyone's opinion here - this is an interesting topic...

 

[Just Jayla]

Ok you scared me into learning more than i ever wanted to know about salami!! I read your link, as best as I could understand it anyhow, and thought that moat generally salami is a cured meat that can be hardened and sold room temperature even. SOOO, I found this link ( my google search is just a mixed bag of yuck with this case ) http://www.ehow.com/how-does_5161213_salami-made.html > basically, what I am trying to imply here is that I doubt that anyone TL included was purchasing high quality, made fresh from the butcher salami. I was concerned with your link, I hate giving the defense any angle on which to spin good evidence. So I found one thats suits me better lol. Thanks for it doing legwork! You Rock!

LOL, you are right, it was Oscar Meyer!

 

[RR0004]

I was kinda skeptical abt reports of a visible outline of a body in the trunk. But I hate to say it, I do see the outline.
Awful, really sad-that poor child...
:angel2:

Ok...this was probably the hardest news to bear today...but can you tell me where to locate the photo? I'll try and tackle that tomorrow. TIA

 

[Just Jayla]

Ok...this was probably the hardest news to bear today...but can you tell me where to locate the photo? I'll try and tackle that tomorrow. TIA

I saw a grainy one in the beginning of the FBI docs from today:

Page 19 of this pdf:

http://www.wesh.com/download/2009/0929/21147671.pdf

And there is another picture posted earlier in this thread that is in color and good quality-I see something more definate in the grainy pic, but it is grainy.
In the high quality pic, I see brown marks between the drivers side wheel well and the spare tire well.

I think GA siad the trash bag was to the left of the trunk, hence covering this stain when he found the car. So, maybe the trash bag leaked on the upholstery, or perhaps it was Caylee and KC covered the stain with the trash bag...
Maybe the brownish stuff in later pics of the trash bag was not from rust in the dumpster, it was mud, or perhaps decomp fluid, which is pinkish brown, and it got on the trunk upholstery already being dirty.

Or, liquid from Caylee got into the trunk and began to rust the metal of the body of the car that is directly underneath this thin upholstery, and rust/oxidation has wicked up through the trunk liner....

We shall see, or maybe we won't, if it is too inflammatory...

 

[Just Jayla]

BTW, I have noticed that in order to discuss this recent doc dump, I have to invision, determine and write some horrible things about the treatment of Caylee's body-I don't mean to be crude, I just want to get through these horrible facts as concisely as possible.
I would like to write about Caylee in better terms, but her mother has reduced part of Caylee's legacy to necessarily discussing her remains in a more scientific, plain manner.
Caylee was beautiful and when I write about what happened to her Earthly body, it's with the knowledge that her beautiful little soul is in Heaven.