Starting from scratch

[Roselvr]

I hope Lil will forgive me if I close the loop-

Lil wanted to know if any studies had been done on BK's neck and spine. Given the location of the scar on his neck, s/he said he appeared to have scarring that was similar to someone she knows-right to the scar on his jaw. S/he indicated that the divet on the jaw of the person she knows was because the halo for the persons broken neck was screwed into that persons jaw.

I loved it as an alternative to the abscessed tooth theory-perhaps BK had his neck fused and his elbow repaired during a "catastrophic event" such as a car accident.

I could not find an example of a Halo brace that screwed into the jaw....so hopefully Lil will come back and comment...

To add to that, I also saw something similar with the elbow surgery which is why I was asking for pin location.

If they did something like that, I don't think it's regular spine surgery. It would be something very invasive and probably something to do with the part of the skull where it meets the spine.

 

[Lil'E]

The only photographic image I could find of the device used to stabalize the lower mandible is an older black and white picture but it should give you some insight as to why the patient is left with a punctue scar in the jaw. Here is the link, one of the photos is a bit gross, so beware.

http://www.nzetc.org/tm/scholarly/tei-WH2Surg-pt1-c16-4.html

 

[Wendy101]

The only photographic image I could find of the device used to stabalize the lower mandible is an older black and white picture but it should give you some insight as to why the patient is left with a punctue scar in the jaw. Here is the link, one of the photos is a bit gross, so beware.

http://www.nzetc.org/tm/scholarly/tei-WH2Surg-pt1-c16-4.html

Ouch!

 

[Roselvr]

The only photographic image I could find of the device used to stabalize the lower mandible is an older black and white picture but it should give you some insight as to why the patient is left with a punctue scar in the jaw. Here is the link, one of the photos is a bit gross, so beware.

http://www.nzetc.org/tm/scholarly/tei-WH2Surg-pt1-c16-4.html

Thank you.

I was looking around the site after you posted it; I was reading this is from World War I and II. I'm now curious how long they used an appliance like that.

~Snip~

The advances that took place during the Second World War then were: (i) Much-improved methods of fixation, particularly in edentulous cases. (ii) Better control of infection by using antibiotics. (iii) The use of cancellous bone, which is more viable under conditions of infection.

 

[Lil'E]

Thank you.

I was looking around the site after you posted it; I was reading this is from World War I and II. I'm now curious how long they used an appliance like that.

~Snip~

The advances that took place during the Second World War then were: (i) Much-improved methods of fixation, particularly in edentulous cases. (ii) Better control of infection by using antibiotics. (iii) The use of cancellous bone, which is more viable under conditions of infection.

Roselvr, my friend's mother was using a device similar to this in the mid 60's, I am not sure what method is currently being used. Should I come across info on the subject I will certainly post it.

 

[cleo612]

I am really new to this case. I have seen the forum for it here at WS for months and always seem to skip over it for some reason. I just happened to see the Starting from Scratch thread and thought I would pop in to see what the case is all about. I am only on page 2 of this thread, so this may have already been brought up in previous threads, or even in this one, but I have an idea.

It was mentioned that Mr. Kyle has 2 pins in his elbow. Most surgical pins have serial numbers that can be traced. Has this been considered as an option for tracking who may have received these pins? Obviously, it would require a surgical procedure in order to read the numbers, but 5 years is a very long time for this man to be wondering who he is. He deserves to know his identity.

One other question I have is whether or not there is a listing showing things that have already been done in order to publicize this case, as well as rule outs on other missing persons?

I will be back tomorrow to catch up on the rest of this thread. I am intrigued now.

 

[believe09]

I am really new to this case. I have seen the forum for it here at WS for months and always seem to skip over it for some reason. I just happened to see the Starting from Scratch thread and thought I would pop in to see what the case is all about. I am only on page 2 of this thread, so this may have already been brought up in previous threads, or even in this one, but I have an idea.

It was mentioned that Mr. Kyle has 2 pins in his elbow. Most surgical pins have serial numbers that can be traced. Has this been considered as an option for tracking who may have received these pins? Obviously, it would require a surgical procedure in order to read the numbers, but 5 years is a very long time for this man to be wondering who he is. He deserves to know his identity.

One other question I have is whether or not there is a listing showing things that have already been done in order to publicize this case, as well as rule outs on other missing persons?

I will be back tomorrow to catch up on the rest of this thread. I am intrigued now.

Welcome!!!! :woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:

We love fresh eyes. The simple answer is yes and yes to both of your questions-Mr. Kyle is not a fan of having the pin removed in order to see if there is a serial number on it, and I for one support him. There is probably enough calcification over it that it would be a problem and may not bear any result if it was put in prior to pins being marked.

Read through the forum for the list of rule outs and the media contacts that have been made for him...

 

[Roselvr]

The simple answer is yes and yes to both of your questions-Mr. Kyle is not a fan of having the pin removed in order to see if there is a serial number on it, and I for one support him. There is probably enough calcification over it that it would be a problem and may not bear any result if it was put in prior to pins being marked.

There probably is no serial number on it.
IIRC, things like this do not get serial numbers.

 

[nerosleuth]

I'm new to this Benjaman Kyle thread as a fresh pair of eyes and mind. I find his case to be mysterious and intriguing.

I was thinking about Mr. Kyle's memory regarding living in Indianapolis.

In another thread, it was mentioned the connection between his chosen first name Benjaman and Benjamin Harrison, who was the 23rd President of the United States from Indiana. We know that both the Benjamin Harrison house and Fort Benjamin Harrison are in Indianapolis.

It could be possible that Mr. Kyle had a family member who worked as a civilian employee at Fort Benjamin Harrison, or he could have a family member who was in the military and stationed there. It's also possible that he could have lived near Fort Benjamin Harrison.

Has Mr. Kyle ever mentioned or recalled any telephone numbers?

Here's what I'm thinking. It's possible that he someday could remember an old telephone number years ago of a close relative by heart. That relative could be deceased and the old telephone number is put out of service by the telephone company for a number of years before it is reactivated again.

Now since he said that he had lived in Indianapolis and Denver before, there is a way to find old telephone numbers. I believe the reference departments of the main public libraries in Indianapolis and possibly Denver would have what is called the Criss-Cross Directory.

The Criss-Cross Directory is a very big book directory which lists the full names of folks living in those areas and possibly their occupations. You can do a cross reference by address number and street name. You can also do a cross reference by telephone number, where it would list all the exchanges of a phone number prefix.

Here is a link to Criss-Cross Directory company that will give you an idea what I'm talking about.

http://www.haines.com/ccdir1.htm

It is my understanding that the Criss-Cross Directory has been in published since 1932 in certain metropolitan areas across the United States.

So it's possible that the Indianapolis and Denver main libraries could have the Criss-Cross Directories from years ago in their reference or genealogy departments. It's also possible that they could have old telephone books from years ago as well.

 

[believe09]

I'm new to this Benjaman Kyle thread as a fresh pair of eyes and mind. I find his case to be mysterious and intriguing.

I was thinking about Mr. Kyle's memory regarding living in Indianapolis.

In another thread, it was mentioned the connection between his chosen first name Benjaman and Benjamin Harrison, who was the 23rd President of the United States from Indiana. We know that both the Benjamin Harrison house and Fort Benjamin Harrison are in Indianapolis.

It could be possible that Mr. Kyle had a family member who worked as a civilian employee at Fort Benjamin Harrison, or he could have a family member who was in the military and stationed there. It's also possible that he could have lived near Fort Benjamin Harrison.

Has Mr. Kyle ever mentioned or recalled any telephone numbers?

Here's what I'm thinking. It's possible that he someday could remember an old telephone number years ago of a close relative by heart. That relative could be deceased and the old telephone number is put out of service by the telephone company for a number of years before it is reactivated again.

Now since he said that he had lived in Indianapolis and Denver before, there is a way to find old telephone numbers. I believe the reference departments of the main public libraries in Indianapolis and possibly Denver would have what is called the Criss-Cross Directory.

The Criss-Cross Directory is a very big book directory which lists the full names of folks living in those areas and possibly their occupations. You can do a cross reference by address number and street name. You can also do a cross reference by telephone number, where it would list all the exchanges of a phone number prefix.

Here is a link to Criss-Cross Directory company that will give you an idea what I'm talking about.

http://www.haines.com/ccdir1.htm

It is my understanding that the Criss-Cross Directory has been in published since 1932 in certain metropolitan areas across the United States.

So it's possible that the Indianapolis and Denver main libraries could have the Criss-Cross Directories from years ago in their reference or genealogy departments. It's also possible that they could have old telephone books from years ago as well.

WELCOME!!!!!!! :woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:

We are excited when new minds join us here-o/t I love your hat because Nero Wolfe is one of my favorite charecters...

I am not a number person-when did they start using area codes and could the number he recidted under hypnosis as part of his SSN be a phone number as others have suggested??

3x544xxxx

 

[carolwood]

WELCOME!!!!!!! :woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:

We are excited when new minds join us here-o/t I love your hat because Nero Wolfe is one of my favorite charecters...

I am not a number person-when did they start using area codes and could the number he recidted under hypnosis as part of his SSN be a phone number as others have suggested??

3x544xxxx

Yes, WELCOME!

I think they started using area codes in the 70's Believe, if I remember correctly. I can also remember my childhood phone number and great grandmothers phone number and old addresses, very well. We had Rt. numbers before 911 became popular, this also changed around the early 80's.
For some reason I have a good memory of the my early childhood, 65-73 (born in 62) and then a big gap, ugh, drives me crazy, I want to remember it all, lol.

 

[carolwood]

Oh, another thing, in the 60's and 70's, here we only dialed 5 numbers, then sometimes in the 70's it went to 7 numbers, and this was just for dialing local numbers.

We've always dialed "out of the area" numbers here, with the area code, and the 7 digit number.

 

[justthinkin]

Dang, Carolwood, I'm almost old enough to be your mother. I'll trade you my wisdom for your youth.:blowkiss:

 

[nerosleuth]

Area codes were established in 1947. It was first used by operators connecting long distance calls. Direct dialing was gradually instituted throughout the country during the 1950’s.

It wasn’t until the mid-1960’s that folks across America could dial directly using the area code and phone number without using the operator to make a long distance call.

[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_area_codes[/ame]

 

[nerosleuth]

The difference between a social security number and a telephone number is the number of digits.

A person’s Social security number will always have 9 digits.

Telephone numbers with the area code and the phone number will always have 10 digits.

Telephone numbers without the area code will always have 7 digits.

I was looking at the number that Mr. Kyle recited while he was under hypnosis. At first glance, 3x544xxxx is a 9 digit social security number.

But as others have suggested, we cannot dismiss the possibility that the number he recited could be a phone number.

I looked and broke down the number sequence. Keeping in mind that Mr. Kyle has amnesia, I have some ideas how the number he recited could be a phone number.

Possibility #1 for 3x544xxxx

3x5 first 3 numbers could be the area code.

44x first three numbers could be the exchange number, and then the last 3 numbers could be the phone number for the exchange with the last digit missing.

These are the current area codes in use today with 3x5

Area Code 305 Florida: Miami-Dade County area

Area Code 315 New York: Syracuse-Watertown area

Area Code 325 Texas: Abilene-San Angelo area (created in 2003)

Possibility #2 for 3x544xxxx

3x could have been the first two digits of the area code where he could only remember the first digit of the area code.

544xxxx first three numbers could be the exchange number and the last 4 numbers could be the phone number that he couldn’t remember.

I would have to say that it would be a lot of area codes starting with 3x in the United States.

Possibility #3 for 3x544xxxx

3x5 first 3 numbers could be the exchange number.

44x the first 2 numbers could be the first part of the phone number for the exchange with the last two digits missing.

We know that Mr. Kyle has said that he remembers living in Indianapolis and also in Denver.

The area code for Denver is 303.

The area code for Indianapolis is 317.

After looking at the number sequence and taking Mr. Kyle's amnesia situation, it is quite possible that he could be trying to remember a phone number from Indianapolis or Denver.

 

[eeyorelrn]

this is where things are tricky, Zaha. It is almost like a game of telephone that I can see in the media....I am busily trying to trace the origin of the statements.

For Example: We have a copy paste of some CT scan results done by the ER doc with NB notes included in them. From what I can see, the notations made by NB were included as fact rather than being separated out. The doctor notes that there are 3 small lacunes noted in the CT result. NB notes that lacunes are depressions in the skull-in fact, lacunes are defined as follows-
"arteries penetrating deep into the brain become blocked by atherosclerosis, causing areas of surrounding tissue to lose their blood supply. The tissue may then wither, creating minute holes, called lacunes. A succession of transient ischemic attacks over the years can riddle the brain, causing dementia."

This is from the Encyclopedia Britannica. Lacunes can be part of a stroke diagnoses. Basically they were noted by the ER Doc as three small white areas in BK's brain on the right side. They could be a sign of an aging brain, they could be a sign of a previous stroke but they are not definitive examples of a previous skull fracture or depression.

Somehow, this has evolved to BK having signs of a head injury when he was found.

Am I making any sense?

I worked in the Radiology Department at Duke University Hospital for 6 months doing a travel RN assignemnt a few years ago. The Radiologists there only used the phrase 'lacunar' in reference to a stroke. There was not another instance where this was used. If there was a possibility that it could be a cystic fluid buildup (which could resemble a lacune in some instances), they would actually state something to the effect of "possibly a cyst versus..." then state that they could not determine what it was without furhter review with a MRI (which is what Duke uses for most all of their brain scans where they need definitive clear pictures, like with their Brain Tumor Center patients.)

Also, I have never seen "lacunar" or "lacunes" used in any Radiology reports when referencing age related atrophy. It is generally reported as "white/grey matter atrophy consistant with aging." Now with plaques, like those seen in MS, some Alzheimers, and some atherosclerotic changes, usually the radiologists report says "plaque" or "plaque like".

Without seeing the actual (original) CT Scan report, and just going by what what was revealed in several quotes here on the board, I would see 'lacunes' and immediately think stroke, as most of my collegues would too.

Here is a link to some more info, including a chart with signs and symptoms related to where the infarct is... Interestingly, no memory issues are listed, so these lacunes could be a mute point in relation to his amnesia. The brain is a wonderous yet tricky thing, so who knows... :waitasec:

[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lacunar_stroke[/ame]

 

[believe09]

I worked in the Radiology Department at Duke University Hospital for 6 months doing a travel RN assignemnt a few years ago. The Radiologists there only used the phrase 'lacunar' in reference to a stroke. There was not another instance where this was used. If there was a possibility that it could be a cystic fluid buildup (which could resemble a lacune in some instances), they would actually state something to the effect of "possibly a cyst versus..." then state that they could not determine what it was without furhter review with a MRI (which is what Duke uses for most all of their brain scans where they need definitive clear pictures, like with their Brain Tumor Center patients.)

Also, I have never seen "lacunar" or "lacunes" used in any Radiology reports when referencing age related atrophy. It is generally reported as "white/grey matter atrophy consistant with aging." Now with plaques, like those seen in MS, some Alzheimers, and some atherosclerotic changes, usually the radiologists report says "plaque" or "plaque like".

Without seeing the actual (original) CT Scan report, and just going by what what was revealed in several quotes here on the board, I would see 'lacunes' and immediately think stroke, as most of my collegues would too.

Here is a link to some more info, including a chart with signs and symptoms related to where the infarct is... Interestingly, no memory issues are listed, so these lacunes could be a mute point in relation to his amnesia. The brain is a wonderous yet tricky thing, so who knows... :waitasec:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lacunar_stroke

I appreciate your perspective. The key for me is whether you can have a CT that is normal and yet have found lacunes. Now, either this was indicative of a past event and there fore discounted by the medical staff or it was a blatant disregard of the fact that Mr. Kyle had clearly had a stroke and that it was a possible explanation for any symptoms he was experiencing.

Medicine is constantly changing-would an ER doc and a radiologist have recognized a lacunar stroke in 2004? That is another question I ask myself.

I want to bring attention to the fact that the definition of lacunes is NOT depressions or even indicative of a closed head injury, which is also a key to this finding. There is no evidence that Mr. Kyle suffered a blow to the head-at least of this writing. I think the CT is a good key to a different explanation right? I have seen the results of several different kinds of strokes in my time-at the minimum confusion is a common symptom in my layperson's experience.

TY for posting with us!

 

[believe09]

http://70.254.75.132/TLCScripts/int...mId=-198&ItemField=2&Config=epmlysm&Branch=,0,

 

[Julessleuther]

Wow Believe! I found it at B & N too:

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Muammar-El-Qaddafi/Benjamin-Kyle/e/9780877545989

I also found this:

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Ch...namics/Benjamin-G-Kyle/e/9780131286375/?itm=3

It appears that this is the author of the above books, at least the 2nd one:

http://www.facebook.com/people/Benjamin-G-Kyle/1831823754

http://www.eoht.info/page/Benjamin+Kyle

http://www.worldcat.org/identities/lccn-n82-220971

 

[dreamweaver]

Wow Believe! I found it at B & N too:

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Muammar-El-Qaddafi/Benjamin-Kyle/e/9780877545989

I also found this:

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Ch...namics/Benjamin-G-Kyle/e/9780131286375/?itm=3

It appears that this is the author of the above books, at least the 2nd one:

http://www.facebook.com/people/Benjamin-G-Kyle/1831823754

http://www.eoht.info/page/Benjamin+Kyle

http://www.worldcat.org/identities/lccn-n82-220971

===
Hey Jules:
I found the same links, except I did not find the fb page.
Nice job.
and nice to see his face.
And obviously this man is a wordy guy, able to produce all those books.