State rests rebuttal case- thread #166

[Karmady]

I've never heard of non-original letters being admitted as evidence. These days they could have been created in numerous ways. Maybe the law is different in Arizona but that whole letter thing sounded crazy to me.

In my experience authentication of handwriting requires the original for a number of reasons:



http://www.photorestorics.com/article-316.html

In a case like this where suddenly discovered, non-original letters are found by the defendant or her former lovers, I'm not seeing a big problem in not admitting them as evidence.

Just sayin', it's an issue that'll be raised on appeal and Juan's perjury threat will be a big part of it. Idk whether matt had the originals or not, but a threat of a perjury charge "before your feet hit the ground" definitely implicates a constitutionally appealable issue. When coupled with Nurmi's statement about what the expert concluded and the fact that Jodi was representing herself at the time -- I think that handwriting's on the wall. I had an inkling when I first heard about the hearings on the letters and posted about it. Then I heard Nurmi say, with no objection, that one of them was determined by an expert to be "probably" written by Travis. It'll be one of the best grounds for appeal they have. jmo.

 

[geevee]

Did Jodi script the Travis pedophile letters from friend who shot himself on 7/15/08 because he was attracted to boys & afraid to act out? (Joshua Freeman).

Perhaps Jodi used the intimate details of her friend Joshua Freeman’s struggle with alleged pedophilia as the script for her accusations against Travis.

Here is why:

The Freeman family was VERY close to Jodi. Daniel and Desiree Freeman testified to this for the defense. Jodi spent a lot of time with them. Also, both of may have visited Jodi in jail.

Joshua Freeman, Daniel and Desiree's brother, was the closest to Jodi. He had been sexually abused by a neighbor as a young boy and was tormented by inclinations inside himself. He was afraid he couldn’t control things he'd done and what was brewing.

Joshua purchased a small handgun in the days leading to his death (perhaps Jodi was with him and this is when she bought the 9mm she was going to run away with)?

Jodi was arrested on Tuesday, July 15, 2008.

Joshua shot himself on Tuesday, July 15, 2008

Thanks for that, I had no idea.

 

[neesaki]

Just watching yesterday's Dr. Drew episode where they are discussing the episode where Jodi is caught sneakily eavesdropping in on a private discussion between the Hughes and Travis. The Hughes are apparently engaged in attempting to convince Travis that there is something wrong with JA and that he needs to cut his ties to her.

So here JA was, staying over as a guest in someone else's home, meaning that she had a designated room to stay in. Also meaning, that as a "guest" in someone's home, she had no business wondering, snooping, spying, eavesdropping all over the house at all hours of the night. Yet, here she is, even going to the extent to go upstairs to do it, anyway. No boundaries. It is so symptomatic of her disordered character, and that something is extremely wrong with her, otherwise how could she not realize this is not something that is socially acceptable. It appears that her frame of reference was all wrong, and I think has always been wrong. Again, no boundaries. And the way that Chris Hughes described the frightening evil in her facial expression goes even more to the point, imo.

So moving on, I was especially interested in what Danine Manette, Criminal Investigator had to say. She was impressed with Skye Hughes' instincts and goes into how women know women, how they can pick up on evil in other women. She says that "Jodi is like a snake.... the way she just slithers around and coils up and pretends to be innocent and your friend, but then cross her and she bites you. You know, she's diabolical". Her description is spot on, IMO. What a sharp lady, I like her. :twocents:

 

[Pink Panther]

Just sayin', it's an issue that'll be raised on appeal and Juan's perjury threat will be a big part of it. Idk whether matt had the originals or not, but a threat of a perjury charge "before your feet hit the ground" definitely implicates a constitutionally appealable issue. When coupled with Nurmi's statement about what the expert concluded and the fact that Jodi was representing herself at the time -- I think that handwriting's on the wall. I had an inkling when I first heard about the hearings on the letters and posted about it. Then I heard Nurmi say, with no objection, that one of them was determined by an expert to be "probably" written by Travis. It'll be one of the best grounds for appeal they have. jmo.

Ah sure. Ok. That is if MM is willing to come back from Mexico and testify accordingly...

:floorlaugh:

 

[Pink Panther]

I tend to belive that JA did pick up pamphlets at a mall. To Mormons, even masterbation is an addiction. http://addictionrecovery.lds.org/struggling-with-addiction/stories/made-in-his-image?lang=eng

Here is a LDS recovery from Masterbation program: http://www.sonsofhelaman.org/?p=testimonials

JA is a liar but I think she told the truth about picking up a pamphlet from a mall. Sexual addiction recovery makes $$$.

She implied that she had picked up pamphlets about TA's "problem" which according to her was pedophilia. Have you ever heard of such a pamphlet?

I would guess that TA had probably picked up a pamphlet or two for her about BPD...

My hunch.

No links.

moo

 

[gngr~snap]

Did Jodi script the Travis pedophile letters from friend who shot himself on 7/15/08 because he was attracted to boys & afraid to act out? (Joshua Freeman).

Perhaps Jodi used the intimate details of her friend Joshua Freeman’s struggle with alleged pedophilia as the script for her accusations against Travis.

Here is why:

The Freeman family was VERY close to Jodi. Daniel and Desiree Freeman testified to this for the defense. Jodi spent a lot of time with them. Also, both of may have visited Jodi in jail.

Joshua Freeman, Daniel and Desiree's brother, was the closest to Jodi. He had been sexually abused by a neighbor as a young boy and was tormented by inclinations inside himself. He was afraid he couldn’t control things he'd done and what was brewing.

Joshua purchased a small handgun in the days leading to his death (perhaps Jodi was with him and this is when she bought the 9mm she was going to run away with)?

Jodi was arrested on Tuesday, July 15, 2008.

Joshua shot himself on Tuesday, July 15, 2008

Could Jodi have hacked Travis' e-mails and been corresponding with JF
learning intimate details of his past and replying to him as if she were Travis?


Could JA have stolen JF's diaries about his most personal
inner battles and tried to pass them off as if Travis wrote them?
I am surprised she didn't try and say JF killed Travis.

I wonder when she found out JF had died?

****His dna was not there so I am not suggesting that JF had any involvement
but I do think MAYBE this pedophile stuff is related.

 

[Karmady]

Ah sure. Ok. That is if MM is willing to come back from Mexico and testify accordingly...

:floorlaugh:

He's not in Mexico afaik. But even if her were, he wouldn't have to testify for the court to find error on appeal no matter how many :floorlaugh: are in a post.

 

[elementary]

I realize that TA's estate is public record. I just thought it a bit crass for the poster that posted that info to mention it. I am not inclined to check TA's probate/estate, but I have read that his house went into foreclosure. Since Chris Hughes has posted his sucess with PPL story on YouTube..I found it strange that TA's house was foreclosed on.

I haven't read the previous comments, so maybe I am surely not understanding the bolded above. As in, what significance does that have with Travis' savage murder?

 

[Bernina]

Did Jodi script the Travis pedophile letters from friend who shot himself on 7/15/08 because he was attracted to boys & afraid to act out? (Joshua Freeman).

Perhaps Jodi used the intimate details of her friend Joshua Freeman’s struggle with alleged pedophilia as the script for her accusations against Travis.

Here is why:

The Freeman family was VERY close to Jodi. Daniel and Desiree Freeman testified to this for the defense. Jodi spent a lot of time with them. Also, both of may have visited Jodi in jail.

Joshua Freeman, Daniel and Desiree's brother, was the closest to Jodi. He had been sexually abused by a neighbor as a young boy and was tormented by inclinations inside himself. He was afraid he couldn’t control things he'd done and what was brewing.

Joshua purchased a small handgun in the days leading to his death (perhaps Jodi was with him and this is when she bought the 9mm she was going to run away with)?

Jodi was arrested on Tuesday, July 15, 2008.

Joshua shot himself on Tuesday, July 15, 2008

Because the Freeman's were on the defense witness list, they would have had no idea that JA was going to use that as part of JA's final defense because they could not discuss or watch the case until they were released from further testimony. The Freeman's were the only visitors to JA in jail in Phoenix (as far as I know) that were from that group of TA/JA friends. They probably discussed their brother's death with JA when visiting.
I can't imagine how they must feel, if they were totally blindsided after their testimonies and released from any future recall, to find out what JA had alleged about TA.

 

[Meemaw12]

At 17:12 Nurmi is reading the email from Sky about the letters,

At 17:18 JM objects about Nurmi reading the email, JM says CLEARLY those LETTERS have shown to be FORGED by the DEFENDENT and the fact he is reading them is inappropriate.

Nurmi says that's not true

Judge calls for a sidebar.

After sidebar Nurmi talks about in June 2010, based on your wifes response, and she shard that letter with you based on what you said before yada yada yada.

 

[MeeBee]

He's not in Mexico afaik. But even if her were, he wouldn't have to testify for the court to find error on appeal no matter how many :floorlaugh: are in a post.

They can appeal on this all they want. It won't go anywhere. The judge ruled them inadmissable and the DT withdrew them. There's no issue there.

 

[Pink Panther]

He's not in Mexico afaik. But even if her were, he wouldn't have to testify for the court to find error on appeal no matter how many :floorlaugh: are in a post.

If they were to try to raise anything on appeal that involved him, he would have to be willing to testify. No laughing matter.

 

[wasnt_me]

My opinion probably won't be popular, but I don't think it was right of Chris and his wife to have Travis up in their bedroom in the middle of the night with the door closed, trying to talk about Jodi, who was at that time a guest in their home.

I am not clear as to whether Jodi and Travis were sharing sleeping quarters that night, but if they were, I don't blame her for getting up and looking for him if he'd left the bed or hadn't come to bed. I don't sleep well when I stay in other people's houses, so I would notice if my BF got out of the bed or didn't come to the bed. So I don't blame Jodi for looking around for him and being awkward or weird or listening at the door when she finally figured out where he was. It would be strange to me if my BF was in that room with the door closed while people should be asleep.

<mod snip> I might start to think they three are strange and might be plotting to do something to me while I sleep. Therefore, I might even listen at the door. I'm coming from the perspective of how one might feel putting her trust and life in the hands of these people who she really didn't know well at the time.

But if she and Travis shared different spaces for sleeping that night, I might feel the same way. Maybe she was uncomfortable in the house or heard a noise and went looking for him. Who knows. But to discover that everyone in the house in huddled in a room talking about you in the middle of the night....that was rude on their part.

********Disclaimer. This doesn't mean I support Jodi or her case. This doesn't mean I sympathize with her; however, just because Jodi is crazy and murderous doesn't make everything that the people around her did correct. I think she's guilty plain and simple, but I also think--if I have the story right--the Hughes' were rude that night. If I have the story wrong, enlighten me.

 

[Karmady]

You're wrong.

I don't care about being wrong, but I don't think I am. Actually, I'm really, really confident that I'm not wrong about this. But we shall see if she's convicted and the motions come rolling in. Having the prosecutor threaten a material witness with criminal charges is a big constitutional deal.

 

[Pink Panther]

He's not in Mexico afaik. But even if her were, he wouldn't have to testify for the court to find error on appeal no matter how many :floorlaugh: are in a post.

Do you know where he is?

Just askin'...

 

[m1279]

I'm just catching up after taking a few days off and dealing with "real life" stuff, but I have a few points or questions....

1. Someone posted earlier in this thread that maybe JA surprised Travis while he was in the shower, she was holding the gun or knife and threatening to kill herself. I think that's very plausible, especially after hearing Sky Hughes tonight on DD, saying that Travis felt he couldn't break things off for good with JA because she would kill herself.

2. I know there's a dispute over whether or not she shot or stabbed him first, but I don't understand WHY it matters. There's so much evidence prior to her visit that points to premeditation. Again, I know this has been hashed out a thousand times already, but I'm just confused. (For what it's worth, the shell casing found on TOP of the blood is what leads me to believe she attacked with the knife first).

3. Does anyone else here "stress eat?" I sure as heck do. I'm going to gain 20 pounds before the verdict is read. I got groceries today....I had so much junk food and wine in my cart that the cashier asked me if I was stocking up for the impending bad weather (it's been 85 degrees and sunny the last few days, and they're calling for snow by the end of the week. Gotta love the Midwest.).

 

[Karmady]

If they were to try to raise anything on appeal that involved him, he would have to be willing to testify. No laughing matter.

Disagree. If the prosecutor threatened him, that will be a primary basis of the appeal.

 

[elementary]

JM tried to wrap it up. The DT was allowed a sur-rebutall. So, here we go again...

Yes, here we go again, because the judge isn't doing her job, IMO.

I watched the judge in the George Zimmerman case smack down the lawyers good this morning. She was having none of the drama and stupidity. Unfortunately, Judge Stephens is a pushover, meaning she doesn't have the necessary law in her knowledge banks or maybe a backbone to do a serious smackdown. This is now getting insane, IMO.

 

[GoAskAllie]

Could Jodi have hacked Travis' e-mails and been corresponding with JF
learning intimate details of his past and replying to him as if she were Travis?


Could JA have stolen JF's diaries about his most personal
inner battles and tried to pass them off as if Travis wrote them?
I am surprised she didn't try and say JF killed Travis.

I wonder when she found out JF had died?

****His dna was not there so I am not suggesting that JF had any involvement
but I do think MAYBE this pedophile stuff is related.

Jodi was very close to the Freeman family. She wouldn't need to pretend to be Travis to reach out to Joshua to learn about his demons/struggles. She was a frequent guest in their home and could exploit any of the Freemans as she saw fit. Joshua committed suicide on July 15--the same day she was arrested. Not sure when she learned about his death, however she wasn't extradited to Arizona until September 5. Dan and Desiree Freeman visited Jodi in jail several times for the next few months, but then Dan said he needed to move on and the visits stopped. Keep in mind that by the time she arrived in Arizona, the Ninjas had murdered Travis, so I'm sure they may have discussed Joshua's death without suspecting she'd co-op any portion of his story a few years down the road.

 

[MeeBee]

Because the Freeman's were on the defense witness list, they would have had no idea that JA was going to use that as part of JA's final defense because they could not discuss or watch the case until they were released from further testimony. The Freeman's were the only visitors to JA in jail in Phoenix (as far as I know) that were from that group of TA/JA friends. They probably discussed their brother's death with JA when visiting.
I can't imagine how they must feel, if they were totally blindsided after their testimonies and released from any future recall, to find out what JA had alleged about TA.

Daniel Freeman has said they were closer to Travis than Jodi but were willing to give her the benefit of the doubt and they couldn't see how she could have killed Travis. They had no idea what her defense was and he says when he was on the stand and was being questioned by the DT he smiled to himself when he realized they were trying to paint Travis as a bad guy. He thought that'll never work because he was a GREAT guy. He says he was only there to testify truthfully and Juan seemed to feel comfortable questioning him when he realized this.

Dan Freeman has since come to the conclusion that Jodi did kill Travis. Probably because he knows her stories of abuse and pedophilia is patently false.