Strangulation Preferable To Head Wound?

[T-Rex]

Hmmm...I didn't think of that--so the flashlight connected in more than one place. Sort of like this o\ only at more of an angle.

If the top part is the handle, it would have to be someone much taller than her, hitting her from above, while they stood facing each other. Right?

 

[JMO8778]

Hmmm...I didn't think of that--so the flashlight connected in more than one place. Sort of like this o\ only at more of an angle.

If the top part is the handle, it would have to be someone much taller than her, hitting her from above, while they stood facing each other. Right?

I'm not sure what you're talking about here...they're shaped,for the most part, like regular flashlights, only most of them are metal, very heavy and very well contructed ,so they don't break easily.(I don't think they would break even if you ran over one of them with a car).
I guess it would depend on how they hit her, but from the looks of it,(I'm not an expert),it looks like someone was facing her,yes.I don't know if she would have necessarily been standing or not.

 

[JMO8778]

Try this: http://www.maglite.com/productline.asp

 

[UKGuy]

With that man whose head was half gone.....what an awful thing to watch his agony as he clung to life for those 2 hours. It would be more merciful to die instantly in a case like that. Gives me chills.

Someone here had suggested that perhaps the blow to the head may have occurred during a bath JonBenet and Burke may have been having together. Now, if a child stood up in the tub and (during play) the other child grabbed her feet and pulled them out from under her, she would come crashing down backward with some serious force - what if her head struck the faucet?

lovebites,

Well its a possibility, but think it through, you are a parent supervising bathtime suddenly there is an accident what do you do dial 911 or construct a complex homicide?

Yet another acronym seems apt, ADI (Accident Did It), since this as an explanation appeals to many.

If JonBenet's death had been accidental , and although the circumstances may have been embarrassing or questionable, it would not have been murder!

All of JonBenet's major injuries indicate lethal force e.g. strangulation, head blow.

Someone intentionally murdered JonBenet then faked a crime-scene hoping it would deflect the focus.

Both parents are linked by forensic evidence to the crime-scene, if it had been sanctioned they would have left colorado state that morning by plane.

If the cause of death given on the autopsy had been singular e.g. cranial fracture etc, and there was also the wine-cellar staging, then an ADI may apply.

But with potentially multiple causes of death, not withstanding the ferocity of the violence perpetrated upon JonBenet, this cannot have been accidental, the staging of another homicide to mask the details of the original underline this.


.

 

[JMO8778]

lovebites,

Well its a possibility, but think it through, you are a parent supervising bathtime suddenly there is an accident what do you do dial 911 or construct a complex homicide?

Yet another acronym seems apt, ADI (Accident Did It), since this as an explanation appeals to many.

If JonBenet's death had been accidental , and although the circumstances may have been embarrassing or questionable, it would not have been murder!

All of JonBenet's major injuries indicate lethal force e.g. strangulation, head blow.

Someone intentionally murdered JonBenet then faked a crime-scene hoping it would deflect the focus.

Both parents are linked by forensic evidence to the crime-scene, if it had been sanctioned they would have left colorado state that morning by plane.

If the cause of death given on the autopsy had been singular e.g. cranial fracture etc, and there was also the wine-cellar staging, then an ADI may apply.

But with potentially multiple causes of death, not withstanding the ferocity of the violence perpetrated upon JonBenet, this cannot have been accidental, the staging of another homicide to mask the details of the original underline this.


.

I think so, too.
Although it looks like PR was involved with at least some of the staging from her jacket fibers being found on the tape etc.,it's hard to say who did what,altho I think JR had the most reason to do away with her.
Esp. since there could be 2 causes of death, and either would have been the end for her,I don't think it's possible to say for sure who did what-who did the strangling,and who hit her on the head, altho I beleive it was JR that inflicted the head injury.JMO.

 

[JMO8778]

"You all make good points. It still amazes me that such a horrendous head injury didn't result in a bloody gash, especially since head wounds are notoriously bloody."

It would depend on where it happened. You know, close to the arteries, like that?

"Does anyone know (from a medical standpoint), what the body's outward reaction would be to such a severe wound? ie: convulsing, knocked out cold, gurgling............?"

Head wounds are a funny thing. Some convulse, some vomit; My dad was a Marine in Vietnam. Once, his unit came upon a man who had been blow away with an AK round. Half his head was gone. The blood was congealed, so he'd been dead a while. He WASN'T dead! He lived for two more hours. In this case, it probably out her in shock.

"I do not think it was done by the flashlight, most flashlights have indented patterns on them that would have left their impression behind on the scalp."

If it were a normal flashlight, yes.Maglights usually have a small button that you press to turn the light on and off.On some of them you just twist the top and the light comes on.There's nothing to indent on the handle.
JB's skull had a square-like indention which IMO, was caused by the end with the light on it, and the rest of her skull split from the long handle on the light.
With a maglight,they're so tough and well-built ,that I don't think it's likely the bulb would even break during the strike.

 

[BBB167893]

"SuperDave: The flashlight and batteries were wiped clean. Someone used the flashlight. I use to think it was the slipping against the bathtub theory. I don't anymore. I think she was intentionally hit with the flashlight.

What do you think?"

I think Werner Spitz makes a damn good argument for it being the flashlight.

"With that man whose head was half gone.....what an awful thing to watch his agony as he clung to life for those 2 hours. It would be more merciful to die instantly in a case like that. Gives me chills."

Haunted him his whole life.

"The side with the light on it?"

Yep.

"They're very heavy,they're the heavy duty ones that mechanics and professionals use.They don't break easily.(if at all, really)."

Yeah, in the commercials for Mag-Lite they run them over with cars to show how durable they are.

"If the top part is the handle, it would have to be someone much taller than her, hitting her from above, while they stood facing each other. Right?"

Much taller, yes, but the linear fracture leads me to believe JB had their back to the person.

Everyone says how this had to be a powerful blow, but leverage plays a big part. And I think she'd have to be vertical when it was delivered, not lying dead, because in order to cause a wound like that with such a short object (relatively, I mean), you'd have to put so much of your body into it you'd lose your balance. It just wouldn't work.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

Much taller, yes, but the linear fracture leads me to believe JB had their back to the person.

It does appear so. I hope so. I like to think that JonBenet never saw it coming, and was unconscious quickly enough that she never even knew she'd been hit.

 

[Solace]

It does appear so. I hope so. I like to think that JonBenet never saw it coming, and was unconscious quickly enough that she never even knew she'd been hit.

So what do you think happened NP?

 

[Nuisanceposter]

I think Patsy was angry and hit JonBenet with the flashlight. Sometimes I wonder if the flashlight hadn't been thrown at her and smacked her right in the head.

I have a hard time figuring out exactly why JonBenet was hit on the head - maybe it was over the toileting issues, maybe it was late and they were both tired, and Patsy wanted JB to do something (like the hair-dying, or maybe rehearse a little number for the fam at Charlevoix the next day), and JB said no.

Maybe she said no in a really bratty way and turned to walk off and her mother knocked her on the head in reprimand.

Maybe Patsy lost it and blacked out in a rage and when she "came to" she found her daughter in a crumpled heap on the floor. I think it had to have been an accident because I just can't see Patsy (or the other Rams) wanting JonBenet dead.

And then again, maybe Patsy had nothing to do with it at all. I always think it was her because she was the one who interacted with JonBenet the most in the family (dominated her life is my impression), and she was the one who seems to be all over the crime scene - looks like she wrote the RN, her tools (pen, pad of paper, paintbrush) were used in the crime, and her fibers are most predominant in the crime scene. Plus she was still dressed in the same clothes as if she had been up all night.

 

[angelwngs]

Maybe PR was indeed DID/MPD as we have discussed here before and maybe an alter killed JBR.

A few months ago my old graduate school college roommate told me about her oldest daughter finding a note on her bed years ago when the daughter was much younger and still lived at home. The note said that my friend was going to kill her daughter. The mother even signed the note using the alter's name. (a young boy around 12 yrs of age)

My old roommate had NO memory of doing this. At the time of our conversations, she said that she had been voluntarily commmited several times, had undergone, according to her, electric shock therapy over 12 times and she is still under the close watch of her psychiatrist and family as well.

When her children were little, bizarre things were always happening to her or her children. We were very close during this time and she was always calling me and involving me in various forms of crisis from, having just called poison control for one of her kids (this happened too many times!), to some freak 'accident' which always involved her getting hurt. Her kids are grown and out of the house now, Thank Heaven!

Still, I could tell true stories 'that would curl your hair'.

If PR was DID, as insane as it sounds, I can see JR possibly covering for her. There is a great deal of stigma associated with the children of parents with severe mental issues. My friend's entire very prominent and 'somewhat famous' family has covered plenty for her for over 30 years.

 

[BloodshotEye]

This head wound, confounds me. The wound and the marks on the face and back have driven me nuts for the past number of years. What caused them?

I would be very interested in hearing a forensic assessment offered by a very experienced engineer, who is able to discuss the force required to split the skull this way, yet not split/burst the skin.

Considering that the typical child's skin is rather thin, its very difficult to believe that something metal, delivered this hideous blow to the head, so as to nearly break the skull into two halves - yet not split the skin. I know, I know. The flashlight seems to be what most people/law enforcement speculate, was used. Still, metal against flesh? And no skin break? Very odd.

I am wondering if there is an engineer out there, (or forensics expert who has conducted simulated head trauma experiments), who would be able to narrow the field of what type of structure/material could deliver such a blow to the head, yet not break the skin. i.e. wood (door jam, bat); porcelain (flat/rounded side of the rim of a toilet); hard plastic; etc.

 

[JMO8778]

Much taller, yes, but the linear fracture leads me to believe JB had their back to the person.

Everyone says how this had to be a powerful blow, but leverage plays a big part. And I think she'd have to be vertical when it was delivered, not lying dead, because in order to cause a wound like that with such a short object (relatively, I mean), you'd have to put so much of your body into it you'd lose your balance. It just wouldn't work.

good thoughts,I hadn't thought about those!
If she had her back to the person then,according to the head wound, they'd have to be holding the end w/ the light on it,is that what you're saying? b/c the square intentation is twds the back of her skull.

 

[JMO8778]

Maybe PR was indeed DID/MPD as we have discussed here before and maybe an alter killed JBR.

A few months ago my old graduate school college roommate told me about her oldest daughter finding a note on her bed years ago when the daughter was much younger and still lived at home. The note said that my friend was going to kill her daughter. The mother even signed the note using the alter's name. (a young boy around 12 yrs of age)

My old roommate had NO memory of doing this. At the time of our conversations, she said that she had been voluntarily commmited several times, had undergone, according to her, electric shock therapy over 12 times and she is still under the close watch of her psychiatrist and family as well.

When her children were little, bizarre things were always happening to her or her children. We were very close during this time and she was always calling me and involving me in various forms of crisis from, having just called poison control for one of her kids (this happened too many times!), to some freak 'accident' which always involved her getting hurt. Her kids are grown and out of the house now, Thank Heaven!

Still, I could tell true stories 'that would curl your hair'.

If PR was DID, as insane as it sounds, I can see JR possibly covering for her. There is a great deal of stigma associated with the children of parents with severe mental issues. My friend's entire very prominent and 'somewhat famous' family has covered plenty for her for over 30 years.

True,but didn't PR and BR go on a trip together alone,without JR present? I can't see him letting her do that if she was unstable enough to kill JB.Unless he thought she was stable then on her meds, but even so, that might be taking a big chance, should she have gotten angry at BR.

 

[JMO8778]

This head wound, confounds me. The wound and the marks on the face and back have driven me nuts for the past number of years. What caused them?

I would be very interested in hearing a forensic assessment offered by a very experienced engineer, who is able to discuss the force required to split the skull this way, yet not split/burst the skin.

Considering that the typical child's skin is rather thin, its very difficult to believe that something metal, delivered this hideous blow to the head, so as to nearly break the skull into two halves - yet not split the skin. I know, I know. The flashlight seems to be what most people/law enforcement speculate, was used. Still, metal against flesh? And no skin break? Very odd.

Mythbusters would be a good one for this.But I don't think they do forensic cases,or at least they might not want to get involved with one.
Children don't have fully developed skulls,I don't know at what age the fontanels(soft spots) have all fused,but I think at age 6,they're still somewhat pliable.

 

[angelwngs]

True,but didn't PR and BR go on a trip together alone,without JR present? I can't see him letting her do that if she was unstable enough to kill JB.Unless he thought she was stable then on her meds, but even so, that might be taking a big chance, should she have gotten angry at BR.

Good Point!

 

[JMO8778]

As far as PR being the perp,maybe so.But I just can't get past the fact that JR's fibers were found on JB's body from wiping her down.I think molestation would be the obvious reason.
I also wonder if PR could have composed herself enough afterwards,if she did it, to be able to write the RN,as I do think she wrote it.It looks like maybe JR dicated part of it to her,but I could be wrong.

 

[lovebites]

<<<That person would have been me...I often feel as if I accidently walked through a mysterious, magical mist before posting here that makes me invisible. Thank you for noticing my post. Your suggestion of hitting the head on the faucet is a good one in my opinion!

You're not invisible - I quite enjoy reading your posts. We seem to think allot alike regarding this case.

 

[lovebites]

I'm just wondering, what end of the flashlight? The handle? The side with the light on it? Was the bulb still working? 'Cause I think if you bash a flashlight on the floor, the filament in the bulb will break.

Years ago, I got mugged, and the guy hit me over the head with a brick. It's kind of a joke with my friends, because the next morning, we found the brick in the lobby, broken in half! (It was actually more of a thick tile.) Obviously an adult's skull is a lot thicker than a kid's. It bled like crazy, though. Didn't hurt --just kind of stunned.

What a harrowing experience! I'm glad you're ok. I can just imagine the jokes your friends would make regarding being "hard headed' etc lol.

 

[lovebites]

lovebites,

Well its a possibility, but think it through, you are a parent supervising bathtime suddenly there is an accident what do you do dial 911 or construct a complex homicide?

Yet another acronym seems apt, ADI (Accident Did It), since this as an explanation appeals to many.

If JonBenet's death had been accidental , and although the circumstances may have been embarrassing or questionable, it would not have been murder!

All of JonBenet's major injuries indicate lethal force e.g. strangulation, head blow.

Someone intentionally murdered JonBenet then faked a crime-scene hoping it would deflect the focus.

Both parents are linked by forensic evidence to the crime-scene, if it had been sanctioned they would have left colorado state that morning by plane.

If the cause of death given on the autopsy had been singular e.g. cranial fracture etc, and there was also the wine-cellar staging, then an ADI may apply.

But with potentially multiple causes of death, not withstanding the ferocity of the violence perpetrated upon JonBenet, this cannot have been accidental, the staging of another homicide to mask the details of the original underline this.


.

This is where I always get stuck too UK Guy- why the elaborate cover up if it was an just an accident? So far in my heart, the only remotely conceivable explanation (for these particular people) is if Burke was responsible, whether accidentally or intentionally and the Ramsey's, in a panic, thought they needed to protect him. It's so strange - neither of the Ramsey's come across as diabolical killers (which would make this so much easier), quite the opposite, they both come across as fairly rational people who neither had nor has had an incident of violence before or since the brutal murder of JonBenet. Everything about this case seems to contradict itself.