Here's my take, as a scientist in a "publish or perish" field. All journals have adds. Articles are peer reviewed by academic scientists in the field or a related field. It doesn't mean they are accepting publications to placate the drug companies. I know many scientists on editorial boards of journals. To insinuate there is an under-the-table deal going on seems to be based on emotion instead of fact. It's just not true.
Study "Disproving" Mercury-Autism Link Published in Journal with Financial Ties to Va
- Thread starter Kim Ii
- Start date
I just read through the whole article. It appears that this guy has no idea what academic science and publication of such is really like. He has written an article to get people fired up using an argument ("conflict of interest") that doesn't really exist.
This is my favorite part.
The truth is that scientists have no idea what's causing autism. They acknowledge the alarming increase in the rates of autism now being observed in the population, but with this new study, they claim, "Mercury is safe!"
Yes, because all scientists think exactly alike. We're all in a giant conspiracy to harm your children.
The one thing that has been beaten into my head during my 5 1/2 years of PhD training is that you should NEVER be married to your ideas. The point of science is to determine a correlation or lack of correlation (as science can never prove anything, only correlate). It means you must have an open mind when you look at your results. What is your data really telling you? It's the beauty of peer review. Other egomaniacal, uber-competitive scientists get to rip your work apart. And they will find any flaw or misjudgment in logic if it is aparent. It's what you're trained to do from day 1. Then, once it is published, journal clubs and classes all over the country will do the same. Review articles and commentaries will be written. And other labs will try to repeat it.
That said, incorrect data does get published. The key to data is whether it stands the test of time. Which, unfortunately, takes time.
Also, he can't blame scientists for the MSM or general public's lack of scientific understanding. Believe me, it's frustrating.
He even admits his own bias.
"Now, I don't have any direct evidence that the researchers in this particular mercury vaccine study were corrupted or influenced by Big Pharma, but as an honest, independent think who knows the truth about drug companies, the mainstream media and the profit motive behind much of the science appearing in the press today, I maintain a default position of skepticism when it comes to reading these studies."
We're funded by the USDA. Does that mean we're going to manipulate our research to say the bacteria we work on is safer than it is. Hell, no. That's ludicrous.
As the author says himself, "The only reasonable, scientifically-minded conclusion we can draw from the study is that removing mercury from vaccines does not reduce autism in children."
A recent article in NEJM (which I'm sure is linked in the autism forum) may have found a link between autism and chromosome 16. Here is the article: http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/NEJMoa075974.
Although I work on bacterial genetics, I've taken several classes on human disease and genetics. Everything that is wrong with anyone has a link to your genes. Your genes are responsible for every single native thing in your body, whether the proteins encoded by your genes make it or process it. Genes are why some people are susceptible to HIV and others aren't. They're why people have different allergies. And, at the end of the day, it's genes that are leading to bad reactions from something in kids with autism.
I have Crohn's disease. They don't know what causes that either. It definitely has a genetic link. Hypotheses include an in utero viral infection, exposure to second hand smoke causing an overreaction of the immune system, etc. I understand the frustration of having a chronic illness that hinders your quality of life and not having answers. But sometimes emotions and wanting to hear what you already believe can interfere with rationality (as in the article author).
I think instead of fighting scientists at so many turns, the scientific community working on autism and those who are close with someone autistic should work together to stengthen understanding and communication. Only positives could come from that. But that's not likely to happen if articles more or less accusing the scientists of, at best, being corrupt and, at worst, being evil (tongue-in-cheek), keep getting written every time results come out that doesn't agree with what the "opposition" believes.
This is my favorite part.
The truth is that scientists have no idea what's causing autism. They acknowledge the alarming increase in the rates of autism now being observed in the population, but with this new study, they claim, "Mercury is safe!"
Yes, because all scientists think exactly alike. We're all in a giant conspiracy to harm your children.
The one thing that has been beaten into my head during my 5 1/2 years of PhD training is that you should NEVER be married to your ideas. The point of science is to determine a correlation or lack of correlation (as science can never prove anything, only correlate). It means you must have an open mind when you look at your results. What is your data really telling you? It's the beauty of peer review. Other egomaniacal, uber-competitive scientists get to rip your work apart. And they will find any flaw or misjudgment in logic if it is aparent. It's what you're trained to do from day 1. Then, once it is published, journal clubs and classes all over the country will do the same. Review articles and commentaries will be written. And other labs will try to repeat it.
That said, incorrect data does get published. The key to data is whether it stands the test of time. Which, unfortunately, takes time.
Also, he can't blame scientists for the MSM or general public's lack of scientific understanding. Believe me, it's frustrating.
He even admits his own bias.
"Now, I don't have any direct evidence that the researchers in this particular mercury vaccine study were corrupted or influenced by Big Pharma, but as an honest, independent think who knows the truth about drug companies, the mainstream media and the profit motive behind much of the science appearing in the press today, I maintain a default position of skepticism when it comes to reading these studies."
We're funded by the USDA. Does that mean we're going to manipulate our research to say the bacteria we work on is safer than it is. Hell, no. That's ludicrous.
As the author says himself, "The only reasonable, scientifically-minded conclusion we can draw from the study is that removing mercury from vaccines does not reduce autism in children."
A recent article in NEJM (which I'm sure is linked in the autism forum) may have found a link between autism and chromosome 16. Here is the article: http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/NEJMoa075974.
Although I work on bacterial genetics, I've taken several classes on human disease and genetics. Everything that is wrong with anyone has a link to your genes. Your genes are responsible for every single native thing in your body, whether the proteins encoded by your genes make it or process it. Genes are why some people are susceptible to HIV and others aren't. They're why people have different allergies. And, at the end of the day, it's genes that are leading to bad reactions from something in kids with autism.
I have Crohn's disease. They don't know what causes that either. It definitely has a genetic link. Hypotheses include an in utero viral infection, exposure to second hand smoke causing an overreaction of the immune system, etc. I understand the frustration of having a chronic illness that hinders your quality of life and not having answers. But sometimes emotions and wanting to hear what you already believe can interfere with rationality (as in the article author).
I think instead of fighting scientists at so many turns, the scientific community working on autism and those who are close with someone autistic should work together to stengthen understanding and communication. Only positives could come from that. But that's not likely to happen if articles more or less accusing the scientists of, at best, being corrupt and, at worst, being evil (tongue-in-cheek), keep getting written every time results come out that doesn't agree with what the "opposition" believes.
I totally agree and thank you for such an informative post bnhall.
Exactly!!!!
Think of all the Dessert Storm troops who are now suffering .. Did the government ever admit that?
It should be noted that before sent off to war they too were given various vaccines and never even told what they were being vax'd against as it was "classified" information.
Just using that as an example of our trusted government not admitting fault and I am pretty sure that all of you could come up with 100 other examples of the same.
So to blindly trust what our officials say is just not something I would do without some research of my own pedinurse.
I think Jbeans example is a good one.. many Dr's told her it would be better to medicate her epileptic son, her own research proved to her that those meds would be worse then the epilepsy!
Now I do not believe that the Dr's really thought they were harming the child BUT Dr's get their info about meds from Drug co's.
Drug companies are out to make money not save the world.
Hi Amraan. Just to clarify the information I got about the drugs was from the drug companies themselves.
It is all about weighing out the risks and making up your own mind IMO. That is how I view the vaccine debate. Do the homework and make up our minds.
Marthatex
New Member
http://www.californiahealthline.org...des-To-Higher-Rates-of-Autism.aspx?topicID=49
This California study connected pesticides to autism.
This California study connected pesticides to autism.
Statement about conflict of interest from Arch. Gen. Psych here:
http://archpsyc.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/63/11/1178
I can't speak as to why the authors chose to submit to this journal instead of PLoS. Each journal has an impact factor (IF). The goal is to submit to the highest impact factor that will publish your work. Arch. Gen. Psych. has an IF of 13.9, which is comparible with 13.8 of PLoS Medicine. Publishing can cost the authors several thousand dollars, so sometimes that is a factor. Sometimes there is a bias within the community as to which journals are "better." There are specific criteria as to the readership interest of your work, so that could also play a part. Once again, I don't think the journal was chosen based on ad revenue.
http://archpsyc.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/63/11/1178
I can't speak as to why the authors chose to submit to this journal instead of PLoS. Each journal has an impact factor (IF). The goal is to submit to the highest impact factor that will publish your work. Arch. Gen. Psych. has an IF of 13.9, which is comparible with 13.8 of PLoS Medicine. Publishing can cost the authors several thousand dollars, so sometimes that is a factor. Sometimes there is a bias within the community as to which journals are "better." There are specific criteria as to the readership interest of your work, so that could also play a part. Once again, I don't think the journal was chosen based on ad revenue.
RiverRat
Patsy Ramsey to the Left
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2003
- Messages
- 2,909
- Reaction score
- 45
Now we can do just that, 20 years ago though, we didn't have access to all of the information that is out there for us today. I just trusted my doctor...
I hate to even bring this up, but there have been a couple of criminal cases where mercury was used in an attempt to murder people.
Kim Ii
New Member
Oh, JBean, I wholeheartedly agree with you -- read the research and THEN, and only then, make up your own mind on what you believe re: the vaccine issue.
The PROBLEM is - IF you are NOT given ALL the information, then how in the world can you make an INFORMED decision? THAT'S the heart of the issue. One cannot make an informed, conscious decision as to whether or not to use vaccines as a preventative healthcare measure, unless and until, ALL the information out there, is provided to us!!!
Just about ALL the detrimental, negative findings regarding vaccine research has been SUPPRESSED from the public. The CDC wants to state that vaccines are completely safe, but they use their own protocols (and poor ones at that, I've found out), and fudge the numbers to make it appear as though mercury has nothing at all to do with any of the damage seen in so many of these kids (and adults for that matter).
If one just takes the time to look, and believe me, there is a lot out there, you will find the information out there re: the toxicity of mercury. They've known since at least the 1940's, back when babies were given these teething rings which were laced with mercury. They knew back then!
They've known...they've known...they've known...and they covered it up.
So...one cannot, absolutely cannot, make an informed decision re: this subject, until ALL the information is available to the public.
And guess what. They don't want to tell the truth. Because if they tell the truth, the whole ball of wax comes apart. They'd have to admit they've ruined/damaged a whole generation's worth of children (the 1990's), when they increased the number of vaccines on the mandated schedule, and thus, more than tripled the amount of mercury (bolus doses) these children received.
Obviously, I could go on an on, because as I and my husband have found out, it is NOT just the mercury which is the culprit here. And yes, many, MANY of us are simply born with immune systems which just cannot handle these vaccines...i.e., we cannot excrete the toxicities from our systems.
This is why my own Mother reacted so violently to ALL allopathic drugs/medications. OMG...she had horrible reactions to just about every antibiotic she ever had. When they had to give her penicillin for a toe infection after she gave birth to my sister, one of her lungs collapsed. She was violently allergic to ALL pencillin based compounds, so she couldn't take penicillin any longer. But then, that graduated to an even more intolerant level for her further down the road, to the point she couldn't handle ANY antibiotics.
I have inherited this same issue, as has our son. My husband also has severe, life-threatening allergies to certain foods, so does our son. This plays into this whole scenario as well.
There is just too much about the human immune system that we just don't know. And until we become more knowledgeable about what is actually happening to our immune systems when these vaccines are pumped into our precious babies' bodies, then we take a pass. They've not done ANY LONG TERM studies on any vaccine that is currently being mandated for your children. Think about that. Your children may NOW seem fine after vaccinations are given, but what about down the road? Are certain cancers being linked to these vaccines (that would be a yes) -- other autoimmune disorders are definitely being linked to some of these vaccines/and/or their components.
No, the medical establishment has been complicit in withholding vast amounts of information from us regarding vaccine safety issues. It's time we demand more accountability from our governmental agencies and demand some answers from those that are seemingly holding all the cards.
The PROBLEM is - IF you are NOT given ALL the information, then how in the world can you make an INFORMED decision? THAT'S the heart of the issue. One cannot make an informed, conscious decision as to whether or not to use vaccines as a preventative healthcare measure, unless and until, ALL the information out there, is provided to us!!!
Just about ALL the detrimental, negative findings regarding vaccine research has been SUPPRESSED from the public. The CDC wants to state that vaccines are completely safe, but they use their own protocols (and poor ones at that, I've found out), and fudge the numbers to make it appear as though mercury has nothing at all to do with any of the damage seen in so many of these kids (and adults for that matter).
If one just takes the time to look, and believe me, there is a lot out there, you will find the information out there re: the toxicity of mercury. They've known since at least the 1940's, back when babies were given these teething rings which were laced with mercury. They knew back then!
They've known...they've known...they've known...and they covered it up.
So...one cannot, absolutely cannot, make an informed decision re: this subject, until ALL the information is available to the public.
And guess what. They don't want to tell the truth. Because if they tell the truth, the whole ball of wax comes apart. They'd have to admit they've ruined/damaged a whole generation's worth of children (the 1990's), when they increased the number of vaccines on the mandated schedule, and thus, more than tripled the amount of mercury (bolus doses) these children received.
Obviously, I could go on an on, because as I and my husband have found out, it is NOT just the mercury which is the culprit here. And yes, many, MANY of us are simply born with immune systems which just cannot handle these vaccines...i.e., we cannot excrete the toxicities from our systems.
This is why my own Mother reacted so violently to ALL allopathic drugs/medications. OMG...she had horrible reactions to just about every antibiotic she ever had. When they had to give her penicillin for a toe infection after she gave birth to my sister, one of her lungs collapsed. She was violently allergic to ALL pencillin based compounds, so she couldn't take penicillin any longer. But then, that graduated to an even more intolerant level for her further down the road, to the point she couldn't handle ANY antibiotics.
I have inherited this same issue, as has our son. My husband also has severe, life-threatening allergies to certain foods, so does our son. This plays into this whole scenario as well.
There is just too much about the human immune system that we just don't know. And until we become more knowledgeable about what is actually happening to our immune systems when these vaccines are pumped into our precious babies' bodies, then we take a pass. They've not done ANY LONG TERM studies on any vaccine that is currently being mandated for your children. Think about that. Your children may NOW seem fine after vaccinations are given, but what about down the road? Are certain cancers being linked to these vaccines (that would be a yes) -- other autoimmune disorders are definitely being linked to some of these vaccines/and/or their components.
No, the medical establishment has been complicit in withholding vast amounts of information from us regarding vaccine safety issues. It's time we demand more accountability from our governmental agencies and demand some answers from those that are seemingly holding all the cards.
Wouldn't that be the answer, then? The measles in the measles virus?
Marthatex
New Member
The fetus is much more vulnerable to certain diseases that a pregnant mother might catch. German measles is one of them, so is mumps. That's why a woman is vaccinated now before pregnancy.
The vaccine is modified so that it will not produce a full blown disease. There have been no studies to link vaccines to autism. Studies have been done in Sweden, Denmark, Finland, England and the United States. None have linked vaccines to autism.
The latest study followed children since mercury was taken out of the shots in 2001, to now; and found that autism has gone up, not down. If they were related, the rate since 2003 should have taken a downturn.
Marthatex
New Member
http://www.vaccinesafety.edu/cc-thim.htm
If you scroll down this link from the Johns Hopkins Institute for Vaccine Safety, there are 2 studies, one done in England, that say no link between MMR Vaccine and Pervasive Developmental Disorders.
In addition are the many studies done, including the recent California one, listed at the top.
If you scroll down this link from the Johns Hopkins Institute for Vaccine Safety, there are 2 studies, one done in England, that say no link between MMR Vaccine and Pervasive Developmental Disorders.
In addition are the many studies done, including the recent California one, listed at the top.
Here is my question for the people who have may have a rigid `belief`that somehow Autism is `linked`to vaccinations.
For the SIXTY years that vaccinations contained mercury, why has there not be a `steady`increase in autism over the past sixty years. The incidences of autism has not increased, but early awareness has. There is more `medical awareness and parental information to diagnose autism and spectrum disorder early and becoming aware of the signs. So instead of `wondering`what may be wrong at 5, the parents are aware that their child may have autism in the early toddler years.
That is called fact, not fiction. The fact is as I was well aware, there is a genetic factor involved in autism. Two boys were both diagnosed with autism within the same family and only a few years apart. Both have the same parents and the genes from the parents.
I am not even going to entertain the thought that some might put forward that both boys `caught`autism from the mercury in vaccinations.
Again, there is a `scientific`basis for `diseases through genes, but I have yet to read a `well respected, scientifically based, professional` paper published that `links autism clearly with mercury.
For the SIXTY years that vaccinations contained mercury, why has there not be a `steady`increase in autism over the past sixty years. The incidences of autism has not increased, but early awareness has. There is more `medical awareness and parental information to diagnose autism and spectrum disorder early and becoming aware of the signs. So instead of `wondering`what may be wrong at 5, the parents are aware that their child may have autism in the early toddler years.
That is called fact, not fiction. The fact is as I was well aware, there is a genetic factor involved in autism. Two boys were both diagnosed with autism within the same family and only a few years apart. Both have the same parents and the genes from the parents.
I am not even going to entertain the thought that some might put forward that both boys `caught`autism from the mercury in vaccinations.
Again, there is a `scientific`basis for `diseases through genes, but I have yet to read a `well respected, scientifically based, professional` paper published that `links autism clearly with mercury.
SeriouslySearching
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2007
- Messages
- 35,526
- Reaction score
- 276
I agree genetics probably do play a role, but couldn't it be connected to the generation that DID receive the mercury vaccinations for all those years? We are now the grandparents of the children who are affected by Autism. Are they doing studies on how the mercury could have affected the genes we are passing down to our children and then to their children?
Mercury is not a medication. I have yet to come across anything anywhere that has linked `historical` additive for vaccination that `may`` affect the genetics of a human.
Genes are passed from one generation to another, from parent to child. Hence the `genetic`factor. Remember when `early`breast cancer was ``linked`to environment, food, lifestyle. But then low and behold a genetic factor was determined to be the basis for early breast cancer and a test can now be done to determine if you possess the gene. Maybe one day, parents can undergo tests to determine if they both carry the gene that may cause autism. Like many other `genetic`testing done by parents who have a history of this disorder and others in their family tree and genes.
Genes are passed from one generation to another, from parent to child. Hence the `genetic`factor. Remember when `early`breast cancer was ``linked`to environment, food, lifestyle. But then low and behold a genetic factor was determined to be the basis for early breast cancer and a test can now be done to determine if you possess the gene. Maybe one day, parents can undergo tests to determine if they both carry the gene that may cause autism. Like many other `genetic`testing done by parents who have a history of this disorder and others in their family tree and genes.
RiverRat
Patsy Ramsey to the Left
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2003
- Messages
- 2,909
- Reaction score
- 45
It's a combination of all of the above. All I know is that I was perfectly healthy until I had the Rhogam injections. I had to have it twice per pregnancy, so after 8 times of being hit with the vacination that held the highest amount of the mercury preservative on the market, I was overloaded. Toss in my own childhood vacinations and fillings in my teeth too. I am still perfectly healthy according to many, many tests - except for my central nervous system. Maybe CyberLaw is not familiar with how the term "Mad Hatter" came about?
RiverRat
Patsy Ramsey to the Left
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2003
- Messages
- 2,909
- Reaction score
- 45
http://www.braytonlaw.com/practiceareas/rhogam.htm
RhoGAM® is a globulin shot that prevents the mothers immune system from making antibodies that can harm her baby. However, the preservative thimerosal that was contained in RhoGAM® was 50% mercury, which becomes the compound ethyl mercury (Mercury in PlasmaDerived Products, FDA).
High levels of mercury can permanently damage the brain and kidneys, resulting in tremors, memory and vision problems. Mercury in a mothers body can be passed to her fetus. One study suggests that mercury accumulates in umbilical cord blood at a level that is 1.7 times higher than that in the blood of the mother. Mercurycontaining thimerosal can cross the placenta and migrate to the brain, organs and tissue of the developing fetus.
RhoGAM® is a globulin shot that prevents the mothers immune system from making antibodies that can harm her baby. However, the preservative thimerosal that was contained in RhoGAM® was 50% mercury, which becomes the compound ethyl mercury (Mercury in PlasmaDerived Products, FDA).
High levels of mercury can permanently damage the brain and kidneys, resulting in tremors, memory and vision problems. Mercury in a mothers body can be passed to her fetus. One study suggests that mercury accumulates in umbilical cord blood at a level that is 1.7 times higher than that in the blood of the mother. Mercurycontaining thimerosal can cross the placenta and migrate to the brain, organs and tissue of the developing fetus.
Wow, gee when I looked up information on this "medication", I found out that it has been in use for as many years as I have been alive.
I really do wish people would go for heavy metal testing and actually determine the levels of ALL heavy metals in their system.
A politician recently has the test and he had 41 out out of 44 levels of heavy metals in his system.
Again, no link to mercury causing autism. None. Nada.
Since mercury has not been used in childhood vaccinations since 2001, and no published evidence even support as "casual" link between the two, I really do wonder what the basis in fact for the allegations that autism is caused by mercury in childhood vaccinations.
It has been 7 years since any mercury was included in childhood vaccinations, but despite that fact, autism rate do continue to rise.
That would indicate to me that genes not mercury play a strong factor.
I really do wish people would go for heavy metal testing and actually determine the levels of ALL heavy metals in their system.
A politician recently has the test and he had 41 out out of 44 levels of heavy metals in his system.
Again, no link to mercury causing autism. None. Nada.
Since mercury has not been used in childhood vaccinations since 2001, and no published evidence even support as "casual" link between the two, I really do wonder what the basis in fact for the allegations that autism is caused by mercury in childhood vaccinations.
It has been 7 years since any mercury was included in childhood vaccinations, but despite that fact, autism rate do continue to rise.
That would indicate to me that genes not mercury play a strong factor.
Online statistics
- Members online
- 140
- Guests online
- 2,694
- Total visitors
- 2,834