Susan Powell's Blood Was Found In Her Home

  • #121
This article broke my heart. The system now has blood on their hands.

Kiirsi will be a guest on Websleuths Radio tonight. I should have the chat room open about a half an hour before the show. You can listen live by following the link on my signature line.
 
  • #122
I heard about the latest developments in the case yesterday on CNN and our local news at 11:00 last night :frown: While it's too late to save Susan and her boys, I think some heads should roll for "protecting the integrity of (the) investigation" :rolleyes: while doing nothing to protect those little guys :cry:
 
  • #123
<RSBM> BBM

I'll preface my reply with: Please, let us all avoid religious criticism/arguments and LDS bashing. Please. Okay? Okay. Thanks.

However, I would ever so tactfully point out in answer to your query here that as a rule LDS spouses are generally encouraged and counseled by their church advisors to work diligently to sustain their marriages and to consider divorce only as a last-ditch effort.

Many articles at this link:

http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.j...toid=bbd508f54922d010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD

Disclaimer:

I bring this up only because it has been reported that Susan sought advice from her church counselor, and that the ultimatum/conditions you mention had to do with Josh returning to regular attendance and participation in the church.

Here is a report from the Deseret News in Salt Lake City, written just a couple of weeks after Susan disappeared in Dec. of 2009:

When Josh and Susan Powell were first married, both were very active in the LDS Church, Petersen said. They were sealed in the temple. But once they moved to Utah, Josh Powell stopped attending church.

Petersen said the Powells' marriage counselor instructed Susan Powell to set specific goals. Susan Powell told her husband that her goal was for him to become active in the church again by the end of 2009 and to have his temple recommend again by their anniversary in the spring. Otherwise, she was going to divorce him and take the children, Petersen said.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/...his-time-getting-home-neighbor-says.html?pg=2

That could, in part, explain why Susan stuck it out for so long. And IMO Josh's failure to meet the conditions may have been a trigger for what befell poor Susan. JMO

:what: Whoa, hold on and please read again. I was NOT and DID NOT reference the religion AT ALL! Sorry, your assumption was incorrect. I have followed this case from the beginning, and know she was getting counseling through the church and wanted JP to participate.. he didn't; BUT, this was a full year and a half after she had written the letter of her fears of direct harm from him. I just can't imagine a counselor...LDS or private sector to persuade her to stay in a marriage where she had been verbally threaten by her spouse (if she revealed it). From everything I read and iirc, she was more concerned about JP becoming active again...as in your referenced article. Why wait that time period and not seek help when it first transpired and beyond her fears, she gave him that ultimatum. Who gives ultimatums to some one your deadly afraid of? It just appears her actions were not a congruency. :moo:
 
  • #124
If she had left him, she knew he would get unsupervised visits with the kids, Knowing him the way she did, that was probably enough to keep her there to protect them.

In the end, her fears were justified. She didn't even leave him yet, he "destroyed" her and her sons.

As far as why she didn't tell anyone, IIRC, she did voice some of her fears to her friends and family. Her family urged her to have a secret bank account, also IIRC, as a result.

She knew this monster. She had a gut feeling as to what he was capable of, based on knowing him, and based on her feelings. But telling a court that he said, "If you leave me, I'll destroy and the kids will have no parents" would have been unlikely to restrict his visitation rights to his kids much. He seemed good at hiding his real self from most people. Susan would have had a very difficult time protecting herself or her kids had she tried to leave earlier, based on her feelings and an allegation as to what he stated would happen if she tried to leave. The court would have demanded much more.

That certainly makes sense...all be it....sick as it as. Change is a must. I just wish she would have left and sought counsel who would have been adamant in their defense. I'm to the point, I don't think anything besides going completely under the radar would have saved her or the boys...ever. What a sick predatory nature these two Powell's had!! :sigh:
 
  • #125
Frankly, I wish I had not signed on and read this tonight. I was having such a good day.

Remember that ridiculous search in the desert, at the mines when they invited the media along on a wild goose chase? I posted that they seemed like Keystone Cops. ETA: But I also wondered if perhaps I was missing something and they had good reasons for doing what they were doing.
Reading this, it looks like they were just Keystone cops.

This is a disgrace.

All that hoopla about the search. I wonder if that was another attempt to get under JP's skin and force him to do something. They ended up bringing him to the event of murdering his sons! I can't believe that none of this came up in the custody hearings. He never should have been allowed any kind of visitation, and WV LE knew it!
 
  • #126
------------

I agree with you, gitana1. I am pretty sure that Susan "saw the writing on the wall" (figure of speech) so to speak.

I said much the same thing in my post #65, 2-9-12:

IMO, the reason why some mothers stay in marriages where they are abused, is because they want to physically be there to protect their children. They know that the court will probably order visitations with the father (who is abusive to them), and at those times, the mothers will have no way to protect their children.

This could be the reason Susan stayed, even though she recognized that she was in imminent danger for her own life.

From experience I couldn't agree more. Most states ensure shared parenting rights by both parties until such time as it is proven to not be in the child's best interests. For me it meant months of allowing my kiddos to be with their father unsupervised. I knew he was dangerous and volatile but to the court it apparently appeared a he said/she said.

The burden of proof is especially high when abuse isn't physical. Despite a restraining order, past evidence of DV and a lengthy psych history for my ex his rights as a parent trumped everything else. It wasn't until he attempted suicide in front of his then 12 year old daughter that the court ordered family supervised visitation. 9 months after that his visitation rights were suspended indefinitely after he plead guilty to drugging and raping his 14 year old niece.

Laws should not be designed to only retroactively protect children. :(
 
  • #127
I hate to ask this question, but do killers usually use the same methods? Thinking of the blood and gas can.

I'm sorry, I can't believe I typed that. But I was thinking about how they searched that burnt area not all that long ago.
 
  • #128
I still have not been able to comment on this new news, two words : utter disbelief ....
 
  • #129
I hate to ask this question, but do killers usually use the same methods? Thinking of the blood and gas can.

I'm sorry, I can't believe I typed that. But I was thinking about how they searched that burnt area not all that long ago.

I've been thinking the same thing. A vivid imagination makes me re-interpret the campfire and s'mores.

Awful to have this come to mind.
 
  • #130
I understand that the amount of blood that was found may have been insufficient to charge JP with murder. Even with the totality of the evidence, a small amount of blood and no body may have been felt to be insufficient to prove that Susan was dead.

But Susan's blood being found, and the news sealed. The type and extent of the 🤬🤬🤬🤬 found on JP's computer being sealed. All things that would have been evaluated in considering custody and visitation for the kids.

I can't help but wonder if these facts were known, would that have affected the visitation of the kids? The courts really need to review these facts. They need to reevaluate their procedures in custody/visitation cases. Why couldn't these sealed facts have been submitted to the court, with the juvenile court continuing the seal?
 
  • #131
I've been thinking the same thing. A vivid imagination makes me re-interpret the campfire and s'mores.

Awful to have this come to mind.

Your post made me think about josh's appearance on video in the beginning. He looked scared in the vid of him leaving the police station clutching Charlie and flat out dumb in the blue cap interview, as he was getting out of the rental car. How much assistance did he have from daddy dearest or is he a 'Sybil'? His demeanor and 'psychopath murderer' are incongruous. IMHO
 
  • #132
BBM In the conversation josh had with a neighbour soon after Susan went missing, he said that he had to buy a new comforter. He also had to but a new phone; what else did he get at WalMart? He gave clues, almost as if he were taunting people.

We talked about his gloves and if he had thown them away and purchased new ones back then because of the redness of his hands.
** In the WA search warrant, LE took a pair of gloves from the home.
 
  • #133
We talked about his gloves and if he had thown them away and purchased new ones back then because of the redness of his hands.
** In the WA search warrant, LE took a pair of gloves from the home.

Given the fire in the house, it now seems safe to assume he got rid of them because they had some kind of accelerant on them, plus probably blood or vomit. It was also probably difficult to do what he was doing wearing them, so his hands faced prolonged exposure. Then he probably scrubbed them at the motel where they went for breakfast, so that no blood or hairs would be transported back, no residue of anything could be found in his home, not even in the drain traps. Most motels have a bathroom accessible in a hall right near the breakfast area.
 
  • #134
Why wait that time period and not seek help when it first transpired and beyond her fears, she gave him that ultimatum. Who gives ultimatums to some one your deadly afraid of? It just appears her actions were not a congruency. :moo:

I could not agree MORE. I believe Susan got very, very, very bad advice, from what we know about her counseling. This is the central element we still don't dignify in women - the ability to know, and say, that you are in danger and will be leaving now.

Melissa Jenkins: "knew" the Prues were dangerous, had turned down interaction in the past, but "had" to go help them, she felt, because that's what nice women do.

Susan Powell, knew her husband had threatened her and the boys, wrote that down, was encouraged to "work on it," and felt she needed/wanted to do that. What we need to convey to girls is that violence has nothing to do with what you "want" - we all would like our marriages to work out and to be loved back by the people we are loving to. Reality bites. Once you are threatened, THAT IS THE WARNING. Go then, go now, solve the problems down the road from a safe distance. If it was an aggressive dog, if it was a cougar in your back yard, you wouldn't continue to go out into the yard and say, "I'm just going to throw it meat continually and treat it nicely and SURELY, SURELY, it will become more friendly to me."

In Susan's case, she apparently had multiple parties assisting her, encouraging her, to ignore what she knew, in her body.

And here's a big flag to me about the counseling: you don't set goals for other people. You can assist children to set their goals. Adults set their own goals. Josh's goals were obvious; Susan's counselor just didn't want to admit that. You can only set goals for yourself and convey what YOU need - a temple marriage, consistent church attendance. You can only set a deadline for yourself, by which time you will not be able to go forward, in this same arrangement, with this person.

Another big flag: you don't give ultimatums to people who have expressed violence against you. Among the parties who have a lot to answer for, I think her counselor has gotten off very easy, and I would be fascinated to find out who that person was and what their real professional expertise was. No qualified counselor I can think of would recommend these things.
 
  • #135
I still have not been able to comment on this new news, two words : utter disbelief ....

That's exactly how I felt when I heard about the investigative file on the Susan Powell case, and it made me :sick: Integrity of the investigation? Give me a frickin' break :eek: There was more than enough evidence to arrest and charge Josh Powell in his wifes's "disappearance". At the very least, those little boys should have been removed from Josh's home and placed in protective custody. :moo:
 
  • #136
WVPD had enough evidence to involve CPS in Utah (IMO) and have the children placed into foster care/relative care at that time. I highly doubt that Utah LE even shared the info (with Utah CPS) about what they found on Josh's computers and in his home at the time of Susan's disappearance. If there was no cooperation between those two agencies, there would be NO cooperation with another State CPS agency from the get go. From the information I have garnered . . . Utah CPS was never involved with these boys at any time following Susan's disappearance which gave more credence to Josh not being involved with CPS in Washington. Washington CPS only became involved because of Grandpa Steve's 🤬🤬🤬🤬 and voyuerism etc. Washington's CPS case was only based upon the threat that Grandpa Steve and his home posed to the boys. Washington was set up to fail these children by Utah LE - from the beginning. I would like to tie up the Utah case failures with a great big Bow and present it to the world! A big bow for their EGO's!
 
  • #137
  • #138
I think both SP and JP show a lot of awareness of corrections and cops, and how to make an investigation complicated in terms of jurisdiction, acing out social workers, etc. To me, it's not intelligence so much as a lot of time spent talking online with other sex offenders, people from organizations who find "man-boy love" all normal and cute. JP didn't need to go into work, he just sent his boss in WA work online, so he had a lot of flexible time to chat online. It's not like he had healthy hobbies like training for a marathon, that would have involved him with normal people.

Given that, I think at least SP and possibly JP or other family members may have other court records we don't know about. Do we know whether SP's work computer in WA has been seized? How about a computer JP might have used as a real estate agent in Utah? Did the motel where he and the kids were seen have a "business center"? Has its computer been searched? How about the public library computers closest to SP's home in WA? Internet cafes nearby? How many 24-hour FedEx Kinko's between WVC and Tremonton and Yakima, any?
 
  • #139
:what: Whoa, hold on and please read again. I was NOT and DID NOT reference the religion AT ALL! Sorry, your assumption was incorrect. I have followed this case from the beginning, and know she was getting counseling through the church and wanted JP to participate.. he didn't; BUT, this was a full year and a half after she had written the letter of her fears of direct harm from him. I just can't imagine a counselor...LDS or private sector to persuade her to stay in a marriage where she had been verbally threaten by her spouse (if she revealed it). From everything I read and iirc, she was more concerned about JP becoming active again...as in your referenced article. Why wait that time period and not seek help when it first transpired and beyond her fears, she gave him that ultimatum. Who gives ultimatums to some one your deadly afraid of? It just appears her actions were not a congruency. :moo:
I assure you, I did not mean to imply that you had introduced the religion angle! *I* am the one who brought it up! Me. I'm sorry you misunderstood. The "please, let's not" was not directed at you. It was my attempt to preemptively squelch LDS bashing that might ensue (as has happened in the past), because of me bringing it up. My bad for not making that clearer.

I actually read your OP very carefully and in fact noted that you did not refer to the church at all. The wrong assumption I apparently did make was to infer from that, that you might not be aware of (or might have forgotten, because it's been awhile) early reports of the church-related influence which allegedly resulted in Susan's ultimatum to Josh. Which is why I introduced it -- to suggest a possible answer to your question about why she stuck it out for so long; that ultimatum involved a deadline of the end of 2009.

Again, the topic originated with me, not you and I did not mean to imply otherwise. Apologies to you and others for the confusion and the O/T.

(Link to the post hollyblue is referencing)
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7745042&postcount=113"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Susan Powell's Blood Was Found In Her Home[/ame]
 
  • #140

Heartbreaking.

From the link:

Chuck Cox acknowledges that his daughter is likely dead, but says he continues to hope that police will recover her body, Fox 13’s Good Day Utah weekend edition reported.

“I want them to keep looking,” Cox told the station. “I want to look around here, I want to look down there (in Utah). I want to look anywhere where Steve or Josh would have access. They’ve had two years to move the body. She could be anywhere.”


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/04/0...l-wants-police-to-keep-looking/#ixzz1qpAEqhcB
 

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